Reddit Reddit reviews Blood of the Celts: The New Ancestral Story

We found 4 Reddit comments about Blood of the Celts: The New Ancestral Story. Here are the top ones, ranked by their Reddit score.

History
Books
Ancient Civilizations
Blood of the Celts: The New Ancestral Story
Thames Hudson
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4 Reddit comments about Blood of the Celts: The New Ancestral Story:

u/lbcbtc · 4 pointsr/ireland

> It disproves the theory that we’re all descended from the Celts

We are all descended from the Celts. As is pointed out elsewhere in this thread, Irish people have one of the highest rates of interbreeding in the world. The Celts came here thousands of years ago (more on that in a sec), and in a small country (geographically and in terms of population) that means that literally everyone whose family has been here a few generations has Celtic blood.

Now...

> We’re mostly not.

Absolutely not true, this statement is 100% not correct at all. Celts contributed the greater part of modern Irish genetic material. The fact that you say the following...

> We’re mostly cro-magnon with a little Viking and a good chunk of Norman and a fair bit of English.

tells me (and I'm not trying to have a go at you) that you have fallen for some of the urban myths about Irish genetics and don't really know much about it. No one who is aware of the current research on the subject would imply we're more Viking than Celt, or more Norman or English than Celt. You could simply google the more common haplogroups and see this isn't the case, but if you want the research directly:

From 2017: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-17124-4.epdf

> According to Edmund Gilbert (RCSI), first author on the paper, “Our work informs on Irish history; we have demonstrated that the structure emerging from genetic similarity within Ireland, mirrors historical kingdoms of Ireland, and that Ireland acts as a sink of ‘Celtic’ ancestry.

Here's a Guardian article about similar findings from 2015: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/dec/28/origins-of-the-irish-down-to-mass-migration-ancient-dna-confirms

> “There was a great wave of genome change that swept into Europe from above the Black Sea into Bronze Age Europe and we now know it washed all the way to the shores of its most westerly island,” said Dan Bradley, professor of population genetics at Trinity College Dublin. “And this degree of genetic change invites the possibility of other associated changes, perhaps even the introduction of language ancestral to western Celtic tongues. These findings,” the authors say, “suggest the establishment of central attributes of the Irish genome 4,000 years ago [...] And Lara Cassidy, a researcher in genetics at Trinity College Dublin and another co-author, said “Genetic affinity is strongest between Bronze Age genomes and modern Irish, Scottish and Welsh, suggesting establishment of central attributes of the insular Celtic genome 4,000 years ago.”

Another comment from the research of the first study I mentioned: http://www.thejournal.ie/ancestry-gaelic-irish-3744043-Dec2017/

> Broadly speaking, Ireland is quite preserved. The Celtic – that is anything that was here before the Vikings – that part of the Irish genome is still around 70%.

If you want more in-depth evidence, look at Celtic from the West by Cunliffe et al. (2012) https://www.oxbowbooks.com/oxbow/celtic-from-the-west.html or Blood of the Celts by Jean Manco (2015) https://www.amazon.co.uk/Blood-Celts-New-Ancestral-Story/dp/0500051836 ... but the quotes I've provided should be enough for you.

> Genetically, we’re very similar to the Basque, because they also had a higher proportion of the original cro magnon population remain.

If you look at the Cunliffe book I linked, you'll see that in fact there was as much celtic migration to and from the Basque country as anywhere else - as a result the Basques have a lot of Celtic genetic background too. This explains much of the genetic similarity between here and there, as well as the ealier stone-age migration.

> It doesn’t altogether disprove the theory of Celtic migration

Nothing you said disproves anything about Celtic migration. You're repeating debunked theories that were popular from about 1980-2000.

Here is another recent finding that has been borne out by both archeological, genetic, and linguistic research; the Celts came here even earlier than we thought. This is mentioned in the first link I provided (Guardian article) and the Cunliffe book - and implies that Celtic migration to here started as early as 2000bc. The Celts as a broad ethnic and genetic group were the predominant civilisation of central and western europe for 1000 years. It is obvious that they had a huge impact on Ireland (where siubsequent migrations have not affected as much).

> there are some newer theories that suggest the tall blonde Celtic figures from Celtic mythology were sort of an elite group who migrated with better weapons, art work, farming techniques.

These theories are not new, they have been completely disproven as the evidence above shows.

> The other theory being that Celtic culture merely spread and there was no migration at all.

This is obviously pure bollocks for want of a better word.



u/[deleted] · 2 pointsr/ireland

> Gaels came to Ireland 4,500 years ago from Spain , that's a fact

LOL, you're very ignorant of the "facts" here. What makes these people who migrated here from Spain (the significance of which with regards to its contribution the the current genetic composition of the Irish population is debated) were the "Gaels". What you're doing here is picking one source of migration, labelling them as true Irish, and then using that to support your assumption that we are genetically similar to Spanish people.

This is logically wrong on all levels. I'll just mention here that this is even more illogical when the point of this discussion is whether or not Irish people are an ethnic group, and whether we are related to modern day Spanish people.

  1. Does that mean to say that Spanish people have remained genetically static for 4,500 years? Again, your reasoning is all over the place.

  2. "hair is only a tiny expression of genome" this is after you saying "I don't see a lot of features in us you wouldn't find on the citizen of any Spanish village". LOL again, you're not putting forward a coherent point at all.


  3. > All islands are generally homogeneous, I'm not sure that's a valid point in whether Ireland should be their ethnic group

    How on earth does this make any sense? If we are genetically homogenous and have a distinct language, culture, and history then what else would we need to be an ethnic group.

    You're trying really hard to force that argument that we are not, and you have zero points or evidence (which I know don't exist) and appear not to know what you're talking about. Very strange

    4- Going back to the original point, you are seriously saying that Irish people generally look like Spanish people. This is itself demonstrably wrong so anyone else reading this would be alerted to bullshit.

    5- If you actually want to educate yousrself on the current state of research on Irish genetics consider looking at this link, this book, this book

    The state of research is that after the original inhabitation of the Island (which came from France Iberia and Britain),peak "Celtic" era (which is now known to be significantly earlier than was thought until recently). This Celtic influx which occurred over a sustained period constitutes the primary basis for the Irish genome as it is today. The subsequent Viking, Norman etc interaction made little impact on the genetics of the country.

    In the meantime, Spain was invaded by the Phoenicians, Romans, Moors, Franks and other groups.

    Basically all your points are wrong
u/ITresearcher1978 · 2 pointsr/ireland

If you don't know anything on the subject then Atlas of the Celts is an easy introduction to the archaeology of the period, got it when I was a kid and one of my favourite books.

About the genetic stuff, this book from Jean Marco has a bit, the interesting but confusing Celts from the West is a good read too.

u/oglopsuperdude · 2 pointsr/imaginarymaps

I like the Penguin Historical Atlas of Ancient Civilizations, very good reference for maps. Jean Manco's Ancestral Journeys and Blood of the Celts both have maps that look particularly good as well, in a purely aesthetic sense.