Reddit reviews Boundaries Updated and Expanded Edition: When to Say Yes, How to Say No To Take Control of Your Life
We found 37 Reddit comments about Boundaries Updated and Expanded Edition: When to Say Yes, How to Say No To Take Control of Your Life. Here are the top ones, ranked by their Reddit score.
>How can I start nipping that behavior in the bud with her? Any advice is welcome.
You can't change her. Thankfully, you can change you(ie your response).
To poorly quote another redditer,"Boundaries are something you do FOR yourself, not TO someone else. ". It sounds like you are primed to set some boundaries. I would highly recommend reading the book, but here is some advice based on my experience.
It is good that you are done. That is a great starting point! Sit down and make a list of what you don't like about interactions with your Mom (this can also help later if the fog decends). Then make a list of what you are willing to give her (time, money, energy, social engagement, etc), and what is too much. Decide on these boundaries when you are in a calm and clear headspace.
Next, comes the hard part, enforcing those boundaries. Don't let your self give in, especially when the heat is on. You have set rules for your self and will follow them. Support your own good in following these healthy boundaries that you set. Have compassion for yourself as you struggle with this. Remember that humans can change, but it takes time. You can do this.
NTA. Just start crying and maybe they'll be too scared to keep pressuring you. I CANNOT believe your mother volunteered your hair. That's so inappropriate I can't even tell you.
I highly recommend this book to you. It was really helpful for me when I was younger and struggled with taking care of myself when that self-care was resisted by people I cared about and/or felt obligated to.
Boundaries Updated and Expanded Edition: When to Say Yes, How to Say No To Take Control of Your Life https://www.amazon.com/dp/0310351804/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_qa4YCbGBX6PVT
There's a lot going on here.
Regarding the elopement:
People frequently get married legally because sometimes life logistics demand it. If your spouse is in the military, you need insurance, a lease is running, etc. A friend got married at the courthouse because the cruise she wanted to take for her honeymoon wasn't offered AFTER the wedding. She had a small ceremony with immediate family at the courthouse, they took their honeymoon and then they had a the big church wedding afterwards.
There's no reason to limit yourself to an elopement. In your situation, I would avoid accepting any financial or in-kind assistance from your family. Pay for everything by yourselves. THEN, invite your parents as guests. If they don't have a hand in hosting the wedding, the message is clear that they are guests and expected to behave.
You also have options for integrating both religions. You could ask a priest to offer a prayer or have a ceremony described here. You are limiting yourself when there's no reason to. Use your imagination and figure out a way to fulfill your dreams while following God's word and making an effort to respect your parents' faith.
Before pursuing reconciliation, start counseling. Get help in learning how to rebuild the relationship with healthy boundaries. This doesn't have to happen overnight. It's a long-term goal. However, you will regret not having a wedding to celebrate and not inviting your parents.
Can I recommend the book Boundaries for you.
Look for reciprocity - any relationship, romantic or platonic, will have its gives and takes. There will be problems, but you should both be willing to work it out. I used to go from 0-100 in relationships and place unrealistic expectations on others. They're not mind readers, and a lot of them don't understand the aftermath of relationships with Ns.
It's normal to be paranoid, but there are people out there who legitimately want to help and be friends. They may just think that you need to hear that you are loved and supported. Some people use "love" flippantly, some don't. It's harder to wait and see where a relationship goes and much easier to cut and run, but running because you're afraid will kill some potentially good relationships.
Ns teach their children to fear others, to fear being known, because everything will be used against you. Healthy relationships are not like that, but you do need to figure out how to identify other people's boundaries and create your own. For me, if friends said "hey, you don't need to pay rent", I'd probably make the offer to pay or chip in every couple of months or so just to be sure, or say something like "if that changes, please let me know". Ns will never "treat others how you'd like to be treated", but others will, and that might be what your friends are doing. At the same time, be aware of manipulation through fear/guilt/obligation by friends. Some know they're doing it, some don't.
These helped me:
Boundaries: When to Say Yes, How to Say No To Take Control of Your Life
Toxic Parents: Overcoming Their Hurtful Legacy and Reclaiming Your Life
Emotional Blackmail: When the People in Your Life Use Fear, Obligation, and Guilt to Manipulate You
Isn't there a really good book about boundaries out there? Damn, what's it called? Oh here it is.
It's really hard to do. First and foremost, speak to an attorney. Don't give her any hints that you're planning to divorce her in advance. My post history from a couple of years ago shows all that I went through, including claims that she had already called the police on me (she had not. and I called the police the next day to see how I could protect myself), breaking into my email to get my correspondence with the attorney, and not being honest about large amounts of debt.
I recommend this book - Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with BPD or NPD. It is a good understanding of the steps you can take, and what is and is not within your control during the process. I'm not diagnosing your wife with any sort of certain illness or disorder, but I will say the behavior you describe certainly has a Cluster B flavor to it. In fact, the way you wrote about her objections to therapy are nearly word-for-word what I dealt with over the years when trying to get her to go to couples counseling with me.
Another person in this thread mentioned projection with your wife describing Laura as a Narcissist, and I experienced that as well. I wasn't falling back into the cycle of staying in the marriage yet again to make it work, because I always believed her that things would get better. She finally went to a talk therapist. Once my ex realized that, I was accused of being a sociopath, and that her new therapist agreed with her that I was the cause of all her mental and physical problems. The therapist I had never met, and during her first session.
What truly helped me was individual therapy for myself, and finding a group of people in /r/BPDlovedones who had bizarrely similar experiences to my own over the years. I was pointed there after telling a bit of my story in /r/Divorce and some users suggested I go take a look. It took a lot for me to understand just how toxic the relationship was, and my part in that cycle. Hell, I even had a similar experience in discussing my concerns with her parents, and that being used against me by her.
I also recommend the books Boundaries, and Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist: How to End the Drama and Get On with Life. Stop Caretaking was probably the best one for giving me concrete examples of how my own behavior and thought patterns were part of the problem.
It took me a long time and many false starts to leave that unhealthy relationship. I wish I had the knowledge, strength, and courage to have done it sooner.
Check out this book: Boundaries Updated and Expanded Edition: When to Say Yes, How to Say No To Take Control of Your Life https://www.amazon.com/dp/0310351804/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_uK7WCbZRWSTAN
My wife is huge into this topic and she suggests these:
Other people gave good advice re therapy for all. But some important points:
-Ex needs to understand this is your home. You need ground rules. She's a welcome guest until she can get back on her feet. For example, one of your rules to stay might be therapy. Maker a written list (even where she needs to park her car) and have a sit down ASAP.
-Great book idea might be "Boundaries" as it teaches you how to nicely draw the lines to protect yourself. And you need to stay safe in order to help. So read it so you can help them more.
-While you can forgive her & I hope you do, that does not mean you need fully trust her. They are not the same.
You can do this friend.
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I forgot to mention a book that really helped me and my husband with boundaries (and my husband isn't much of a reader of self-help literature). We each grew up with a PD parent, so we need help!
When to Say Yes, How to Say No To Take Control of Your Life https://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-Updated-Expanded-When-Control/dp/0310351804/ref=dp_ob_title_bk
It is Christian-based, which would automatically have made me reject the book (because I don't like Bible-thumping), but actually it totally changed my mind about the morals and ethics of setting boundaries. We must, say the authors, in order to grow personally and spiritually ourselves, and to make sure others are free to do the same. They say boundary-stompers must be stopped, and we must stop them.
It is great, I promise! I re-read it every time I feel guilty about my mother, which is a lot, and get a boost of confidence every time. I've had it on my bookshelf for at least a decade. The guilt and manipulation of a PD parent is fierce. This book's concepts is like garlic for that.
My husband and I liked their other book, "Safe People" just as much, but I don't find it on Amazon. It is here:
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/p/safe-people-henry-cloud/1101957885/2679450583166?st=PLA&sid=BNB_DRS_Core+Catch-All,+Low_00000000&2sid=Google_&sourceId=PLGoP79700&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI16vy1rGc2gIVnkoNCh1REQo1EAQYAyABEgL5uPD_BwE
My husband read Safe People in one sitting and announced his mother wasn't a safe person, and immediately totally changed the way he relates to her--which saved our marriage and family. He LOVED the Biblical stuff because his mother used to use Christian values as a bludgeon whenever she wanted her way over everyone else's. This stopped that.
Sounds like you can all use some family counseling. If you can find a marriage and family therapist, go talk to them about your situation, and invite your parents to come along. Sometimes asking someone to join you in counseling is more effective than telling them they need to go to therapy. There's probably more underlying issues that need to be resolved with your folks, and their problems are not your fault.
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More immediately for your own well being I suggest you start setting some boundaries with them. You playing mediator with them is a classic triangulation and prevents them from having to deal with their own issues. It is not your job to play go between and is not fair to you. A simple: "I love you, and it is not my place to serve as a go-between" or "I love you and I really think you should talk to Mom/Dad about that" can be very effective in letting them know you do not want be used anymore. I HIGHLY recommend "Boundaries" by Cloud and Townsend if you need some help in setting healthy boundaries. They are Christians and psychologists and do a great job explaining practical and spiritual ways to improve boundaries. I have training in family therapy and that book taught me a lot.
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\> I desperately want to move out but I'm working full time and going to school online full time for my bachelor's and they don't want me to move out until I have my degree.
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Question: what's preventing you from moving out? I understand the stress of fulltime work and fulltime school. Been there done that, twice. If you are fiscally able to move out, you are an adult and can go establish your own household. It's not really a matter of what your parents want or don't want; it's a matter of what's best for you. If remaining under their roof is damaging to your mental health, go get an apartment somewhere. It can be good to get out on your own and spread your wings!
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As someone who has awful family all I can offer is a hug. I am so sorry you are going through this. You can offer your mom advice to not enable their bad behavior. You can love someone and significantly distance yourself for your own sanity. They are all adults and have to make their own life choices. I highly advise reading this book it was life changing for me:
Boundaries Updated and Expanded Edition: When to Say Yes, How to Say No To Take Control of Your Life https://www.amazon.com/dp/0310351804/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_p2biDbHJA82MN
There's actually a book called "Boundaries," a friend recommended it and it helped me a ton! I don't know that I'll ever have "normal/healthy" boundaries, or if that's even possible for any of us, but the book helped me tremendously! Here is is if you want to check it out.
If you are unsure about boundaries I would totally recommend the Boundaries book. I am reading the Boundaries in Marriage and find it to be so so helpful!! I grew up in a home that basically didn’t have boundaries so the book it a really good education on what you need to do for yourself in a relationship and basically teaching what boundaries are, and why you need them.
https://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-Updated-Expanded-When-Control/dp/0310351804/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?keywords=boundaries&qid=1563234439&s=gateway&sr=8-1
Or the one for dating
https://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-Dating-Healthy-Choices-Relationships/dp/0310200342/ref=mp_s_a_1_5?keywords=boundaries&qid=1563234482&s=gateway&sr=8-5
Oh my LAWD! There's a workbook too!
Book -- Safe People: How to Find Relationships That Are Good for You and Avoid Those That Aren't https://www.amazon.com/dp/0310210844/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_JTa2AbTTRQ051
Workbook -- By Henry Cloud, John Townsend: Safe People Workbook https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0080TBWW8/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_lVa2AbGCT147M
There's also a book on Boundaries!! 🙌🙌
Boundaries Updated and Expanded Edition: When to Say Yes, How to Say No To Take Control of Your Life https://www.amazon.com/dp/0310351804/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_WVa2Ab3BR2QXC
Second this, that kind of behavior, depending on context, can be "enabling", by picking up others slack, you are giving them permission to continue slacking off.
[Might I recommend a resource?](
https://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-Updated-Expanded-When-Control/dp/0310351804?SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q&tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=0310351804)
Setting boundaries isn't just necessary with/for others, it's also necessary to set boundaries with yourself.
An example: At work, if someone isn't doing their job, yours (job) isn't to do theirs. They are not going to become more competent, or less lazy, if they have you too do it for them. Why would they? If that bothers you, think of it this way, you are helping them (and your company) more by letting them fail, and getting properly disciplined. Either they will get the message, or your company will find an employee who can do the job.
Read Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend. You can find a used copy online for cheap. My therapist recommended I read it for a long time, and when I finally did it helped me SO MUCH. Boundaries are a healthy, important, Biblical concept.
I second this, they were a great support with me and my terrible inlaws before we went NC. In addition, read the book boundaries to get some ideas on how to draw the line, and make it very clear, without it being overly emotional.
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Yeah... I seriously recommend reading this book: https://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-Updated-Expanded-When-Control/dp/0310351804/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1526043043&sr=8-2&keywords=Boundaries
Your family is like my family. And then I started saying "No" and suddenly our relationships are a lot more healthy. Weird
OK, I got a few minutes free. So let's start with the stuff you're mentioning specifically about standing up for yourself. That is definitely a good piece of this puzzle to bring into awareness and try to solve for yourself. It will be a huge long term benefit to you to work on, and eventually to the people around you (although they may not end up being the same people that you run with now).
An expert on manipulative and abusive behavior talking about popular misconceptions about what drives the kinds of things you might be seeing in some of the people in your life: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBfvbWRDZN4&list=PLePFb3rlFbw5Z8NWX6h44RgkSeRLPHu6g&index=2 (huge playlist but the first 1-2 videos are a good intro to his line of thinking).
By far the best written resource I've ever found on what boundaries are, how to hold them, different ways we can take the wrong approach to them and how to correct that: https://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-Updated-Expanded-When-Control/dp/0310351804/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1527274601&sr=8-1&keywords=boundaries. It's written from a Christian perspective, which for the record is not my belief system, but I still found it extremely useful. It was actually a bit healing for me to read this and regain some potential for respect for people in that community, seeing that there are Christian people who are actually doing this work and making it a part of their life to stand up to abuse, as opposed to the people I grew up with who tended to be overly publicly religious while silent and cowardly in the face of anyone actually mistreating anyone else in the here and now.
My fav youtube channel with a scientifically robust treatment of this stuff: https://www.youtube.com/user/sppwebmaster/videos. For my particular issues, which might or might not match yours, these two videos in particular were each well worth an hour when you've got it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU33PLAtSOA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sbYIKC7-Tw
Plus as an American I find Aussie accents entertaining and easy to listen to. :)
For your own wellbeing and sanity, I recommend you read these three books and follow the advice provided:
1)https://www.amazon.com/Toxic-People-Ways-Dealing-Miserable/dp/1929873441/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1T5CRFM6U59BT&keywords=toxic+people+book&qid=1572484367&sprefix=Toxic+people%2Caps%2C159&sr=8-1
2) https://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-Updated-Expanded-When-Control/dp/0310351804/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1K7WOU16FNSBQ&keywords=boundaries+by+cloud+and+townsend+paperback&qid=1572484448&sprefix=Boundaries+by+cl%2Caps%2C165&sr=8-1
3) https://www.amazon.com/Psychopath-Free-Expanded-Emotionally-Relationships/dp/0425279995/ref=sr_1_5?crid=1LT5SC2FLV4X1&keywords=narcissism+books&qid=1572484500&sprefix=narcissism%2Caps%2C163&sr=8-5
Look up the book Boundries by Cloud and Townsend - Scripture based, very good, helped me solidify my frame.
Poor BIL sounds stuck in the FOG, but without more details it's hard to tell. Pass this book along to SIL: Boundaries.
It's a good read for everyone with the possible Narcissist/BPD/nutcase in their lives.
Boundaries Updated and Expanded Edition: When to Say Yes, How to Say No To Take Control of Your Life
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Also, make more friends. Your FP should never be your only friend.
First of all, are you living with them or are you out of the house? Are you married, employed and financially independent?
My mom and I have gone through a lot of ups and downs. Our relationship has gotten much better as I've gotten older. I'd now consider her my BFF. However, it took a lot to get there.
If you are still depending on your parents financially or for a home, they will struggle to see you as an adult. As long as you are on their dime or under their roof, no matter the circumstances, they will see you as entitled and not take your problems seriously.
In my late 20s, I was on my own and living hundreds of miles away from my parents. However, they still paid for my cell phone. That extra $20 became a huge point of contention. After I went over on my data (due to my job), I got my own plan. It cost me $50 a month but it was worth it. My parents treated me with respect. They took my problems and concerns seriously. That one bill sent a signal to my parents that I had reached adulthood.
If you can't move out or need to rely on your parents financially, I would advise you to find another person to confide in. It's natural to want to turn to our moms for advice and share our burdens. However, it sounds like you are in a growing pains stage. Your relationship might not be able to handle it right now. Turn to a friend or another woman at church for advice or pursue counseling.
I highly recommend Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend. It's a Christian book that is highly respected by the secular world for how to handle difficult relationships.
people can use the bible to misrepresent so much stuff. (warning: unsoliceted advice) give your parents this book: https://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-Updated-Expanded-When-Control/dp/0310351804/ref=asc_df_0310351804/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312425492373&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8455263262124568265&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9028149&hvtargid=aud-643191255296:pla-425385864932&psc=1 your parents are not the boss of you, you are the boss of yourself and this shows how the bible helps put boundaries in place to keep you safe. i am so sorry you are going through this. TOTALLY WRONG.
If you don’t mind it having some religious overtones, you may find this book helpful.
I remember reading this saga initially and I’ve since gone back and re read before writing this.
You need to cut these people out and don’t feel bad about it. You don’t need them, your husband doesn’t need them, and your daughter certainly doesn’t need them. Don’t feel like they need to be part of your life because they are “family.” This is not worth the amount of personal stress, marital stress, and potential consequences to your family.
FWIW, I’m no contact with my parents for a variety of reasons including their long standing mental health issues and substance abuse. At first when I was struggling with the decision and trying to make things worse I was constantly stressed, and my husband was stressed trying to support me. Fast forward a few years and it’s so much easier — my life is drama free and we don’t have their stress as part of our marriage. I never even told them that we had a baby.
Can you file for a restraining order?
This is a book our pastor recommended to us, we never read it but perhaps you’ll find it helpful: https://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-Updated-Expanded-When-Control/dp/0310351804/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1524823949&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=boundaries+with+parents&dpPl=1&dpID=41aN7j3I6bL&ref=plSrch
It sounds like your friend's problem is less that she's a naive person and more that she has poor boundaries. Boundaries are what let us become angry, to say "no," and to fight back when an injustice is committed against us. Sometimes defending a boundary is something small like refusing a "perfectly reasonable, small" request that you don't want to fulfill, and sometimes it's something important like macing someone who's sexually assaulting you. Without an understanding of where her boundaries lie and how to defend them, your friend will be unable to avoid "being taken advantage of."
Therapy is always my recommendation for this, because poor boundaries are usually a symptom of some other problems. But your friend can probably benefit from a book like Boundaries which I haven't read but seems to be a highly regarded text on the techniques of identifying and defending boundaries. The sample excerpts on Amazon convince me it's worth reading and probably just what your friend may find useful. Please note; as an atheist, I find the religious elements of the book useless and possibly unpleasant, but despite constantly appealing to the Bible the authors nonetheless use the language of Christianity to describe a pretty solid model of boundaries- even to an extent that I think they offer a very useful correction that all churches should read.
If, like me, you prefer to avoid strong religious tones, you may prefer Stop Walking On Eggshells, which is mostly a book about dealing with a loved one with personality disorders. But the techniques of dealing with personality disorders are almost entirely techniques of defending boundaries, so about half the book talks about what to do and how to do it.
Boundaries Updated and Expanded Edition: When to Say Yes, How to Say No To Take Control of Your Life
Yes boundaries are so important. This book may help with that
You’re not the asshole, but your husband is. His family being the issue means he needs to take a stand (preferably a stand for you and the kids, since you’re his immediate family and all).
You have every right to be sad and upset your in-laws aren’t being fair to your children, but the real problem is your husband, not your in-laws. He’s the one not standing up for you and your kids, and he’s the one who’s supposed to be on your side. You should have an honest conversation about your expectations for him: how you need him to choose you and your kids over his parents. You need to be his priority.
I recommend reading about Boundaries
Read this book: https://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-Updated-Expanded-When-Control/dp/0310351804/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1549740706&sr=8-3&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=boundaries+book&dpPl=1&dpID=41KqWr9SXYL&ref=plSrch
Start by saying no to seeing her, all the time. If she guilts you, just listen and say no. Delete the email or say no again in your response. Hold firm to your no. People like this will test your no, over and over again. But once you hold firm the first dozen times, they’ll get the picture and start to leave you alone.
You and your husband will need to set firm boundaries with her, else she'll damage your marriage. Remember you two have responsibility first to your children, then to your marriage.
She's an adult, you don't owe her a rescue from consequences of poor decisions.
Highly recommend:
Boundaries by Henry Cloud - When to Say Yes, How to Say No To Take Control of Your Life https://www.amazon.com/dp/0310351804/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_lWppDb46B8Y7K
Wow. That isn't the help you need!
My wife found the Boundaries book super helpful with some of this.
https://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-Updated-Expanded-When-Control/dp/0310351804/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1511635301&sr=1-1