Law 52 (in my list) : Create your own kingdom

(Because no matter how hard you try, you will never have all your power playing someone else's game in some else's place).

This would have been rather obvious once upon a time, and civilization was built on this law, but the very fact it needs to be stated to a man is concerning.

Ok, no one's asking for a total disruption of modern civilization (it's kind of fucked up as it is), no one's telling you to be a poor team player either (cause no one can do everything in isolation), but a man must have an aspect of his life that he owns, in which he's king, and he pulls his load.

Modern society in that regard behaves like a cult - one defining feature of any destructive cult as per Steven Hassan (https://www.amazon.com/Combatting-Cult-Mind-Control-Best-selling/dp/0892813113/) - is that cults tend to reverse age fully functioning adults back into a childish state of dependency and validation (he calls it reverse aging, we know it as betaization) where they're enslaved to authority and can't think for themselves.

A man is meant to come full circle from a boy.

Start reading Combatting Cult Mind Control to learn more about how groups like the JWs manipulate their followers. It's a devastating organization and treacherous for the soul. Add in extra prayers and personal sacrifices for her. It's probably going to be a rough road.

Yes. I had a couple come over and do a "Bible study" for a couple of months. They were very nice folks and were knowledgeable about a very narrow slice of the Bible, which was a peculiar interpretation of their New World Translation.

They will not go to Mass with you. If you offer them reading materials, they will gladly accept them (but they are instructed to destroy those materials immediately afterword).

Bible verse ping-pong is a fruitless endeavor with them, though it will give you a chance to further investigate for yourself the solid claims of the Catholic Church and Her authority.

The best results I had with them was after reading up on cults and mind control, especially Stephen Hassan's Combatting Cult Mind Control, which will help you identify the tactics they use on their members and prospective members (such as love bombing).

If you have the skills to engage with them on critical thinking, then do so. I had some success with them on this front. You'll have to do so without bringing up the Bible, for once you get into that they go into JW mode.

If they are converts to JW, ask them about their lives before. This often causes them to snap out of JW mode.

You can also learn about them through the ex-JW subreddit, though you'll have to realize that there are a lot of hurt folks -- many of whom are completely turned off to religion and, especially, organized religion, which is understandable considering the nature of JW and the Watchtower Org.

Know that they are probably more prepared for you than you are for them. They spend hours and hours readying themselves to be a pioneer. And each week they will prepare extensively for your "Bible study."

Be kind. Be patient. Invite them into your home for a safe place to sit and take a load off. I find them to be friendly and trustworthy. I would trust any JW with my wallet, but not my salvation.

For the love of your future and mental health, read THIS BOOK If you only do ONE thing after you leave the JWs...read it! It will save you from years of heartache and confusion. You will know why and how you fell for it and how to avoid getting taken advantage of by these groups in the future. Not to mention reconciling that it happened at all. I promise you will not be disappointed. You do not have to do this on your own. There are people who are willing to help.

It's a cult. Don't tell him you think that or criticize the organization in any way. Don't argue doctrine because that is not what this is about.

http://www.amazon.com/Combatting-Cult-Mind-Control-Best-selling/dp/0892813113

Idk how serious you are about saving her or your relationship. If you are very serious about this I urge you to check this book out.

Many of us can attest to how we royally screwed up by trying to reason with our own JW families and friends in a normal fashion. The vast majority of them are so warped and brainwashed that it really doesn't matter how many facts or logical arguments you launch their way. You will only end up making them even more zealous.

These people use families and common human emotions as weapons against you. The religion may look innocent enough on the outside, don't be fooled. The people are definitely sincere in what they practice and preach, however, many make the mistake of confusing sincerity with "good."

Combating mind control takes A LOT of patience and very careful non threatening questions to get the person to wake themselves. Make no mistake your girl is being brainwashed and the JW doctrine is far from being a harmless joke.

Good luck man.

The sociological definition is a small religion.

What makes a cult destructive is being a "high demand group," where the organization and leaders have excessive influence and control.

Armchair cult studier here.

Brainwashing uses various techniques including making the target get a low self esteem, mixed messages, information control, and an us-vs-them mentality. There are several books on the subject. Some of the most important is "Cults in our midst" by Margaret Thaler Singer, and "Combatting cult mind control" by Steve Hassan..

Not all cults work exactly the same way, but they have similar characteristics. Perhaps the best way to put it is that a person in a cult is similar to a person in an abusive and manipulative relationship. Doubt is interpreted as treason, obedience is seen as love. Little by little, the cult draws you in, moves you away from your loved ones, requires you to ask for permission about every single thing you do with your life. Fear is abused, and imaginary enemies are planted in your mind (the CIA, aliens, the Illuminati, the devil, bad spirits, whatever), and the cult is seen as your only salvation from these dangers. More aggressive cults assign you an "elder" partner to watch "over" you, to keep you under control. It's like getting swallowed by a giant snake: The fangs prevent you from getting out, and draw you in, until escape becomes physically impossible. Expect harsh punishments for trying to escape, often voted in favor by the flock. That's how loyalty is manufactured.

And the more you obey, the more you give away the means for escaping: You give them your money, your time (even your sleep time), your goods, they become your managers, and so on. Most cults also plan your activities to reinforce their morals and to stop you from thinking to much.

Eventually, the morals of the cult become universal, and you'll lie, cheat and commit illegal acts in the name of the cult, or the cult's deity, without realizing that you've become the deceiver, and that had you known all you know now, you wouldn't have joined in the first place.

Another great book is Combatting Cult Mind Control. You can't tell them how it's wrong, you have to subtly make them see it for themselves. They've already been told that anyone that opposes that religion is working for Satan. If you set yourself against it, you're fulfilling what they've been told and making it more true for them.

Were you Christian previously? If you're familiar with the bible, you may be able to show them scriptures that disagree with what JWs teach. But ask questions only. As in your stepmom explained it this way, but then what does this scripture mean? Never seem like you're disagreeing, you just don't understand and let them explain it. The idea is to get them to see it doesn't make sense. JWs have an answer for almost everything (that's part of their appeal) but a lot of their answers don't make sense when you stop to think about it, and they especially don't if you're familiar with the bible.

Edited: Some of my bookmarks that might help. Check out M.J.'s letter on this one. And this freeminds article has some good questions that might be useful.

Finding out that everything you believed in was a lie is rough. Losing a sense of belonging is also rough. Losing emotional support when you live in a house controlled by a domineering person... well, you get the picture. It's all rough. The question then becomes "is losing any or all of that worth waking up for?" How would she react to it all? What is gained by waking up to TTATT? Personally, I really think life is better without the organization, even if it's taken me a couple of years to begin to build up a new base of friends, and the majority of them are Facebook friends who live thousands of miles from me (I think that might say something about my comfort levels with people being close to me...) There are ways for her to gain more social contacts outside of the organization.

If you choose to try to wake her up, I strongly suggest reading books like Carl Steve Hassan's Combatting Cult Mind Control. It provides a lot of good advice in trying to help wake up a loved one.

Edit: I have no idea where the name Carl popped into my head from, but it's supposed to be Steve Hassan. Thanks, /u/queensvillage1976, for pointing that out to me.

I think it's awesome that you want to hear from all sides before coming to your own conclusion. That's the sign of a mature person in my opinion. I'm not very familiar with the Mormons so I can't point to specific doctrines but I can recommend a very good book that has helped many Jehovah's Witnesses who have left their religion.

Combatting Cult Mind Control by Steven Hassan

In the book, which was written by an ex-Moonie so it's not specifically about Mormons, he outlines warning signs of dangerous religious groups. It might be helpful to go through the checklist and see if any apply to your situation.

What it all boils down to though, in my opinion, is do you care if your beliefs are true or not? If you do care, then the question is how can someone tell if their beliefs are true? And the answer is verifiable evidence.

Also you asked for a book. Combatting Cult Mind Control by Steven Hassan is an excellent book!! The beauty of this book and the author is that Steven is not or was ever a JW. He was associated with the Moonies in the 70's.

JW's believe anyone who was ever a JW and is no longer is an "apostate." JW's view "apostate's" as enemies of "God's Organization" and thus are commanded to never talk to them, read anything the publish, or listen to anything they say. (The reason for the "quotation marks" is that JW's view anyone who is critical of their organization as apostate whether they were a JW or not. Also they are not "God's Organization" they are a CULT by every definition of the word. But please be gentle when using that word with active JW's, they don't realize it yet, and a mental barrier will immediately go up.)

Since Steven doesn't mention JW's it may help your friend to indirectly realize that she is in cult, without ever fully saying so.

Hope this helps!

I'm surprised to see a Witness on a thread like this. Reddit was something that a lot of young people at my hall talked about not using. That was back when /r/atheism was on the front page. I would suggest you do some research about the organization. Not from what they give you, they do enough policing of their own enough as it is with the molestation cases. I would suggest reading Combating Cult Mind Control. In his book he describes what defines a cult and what techniques they use to control your thoughts and behavior. This is also a good read pertaining specifically to Witness's. Now I know you probably wont read these, I sincerely hope you do. What the Witnesses are doing is wrong and damaging to people. You are a fellow human and I care about you, please PLEASE, at least read that. Then you can have a true informed choice.

That's a tough situation to be in. I'm sorry to hear that you are stuck "inbetween" worlds- but it must feel great. What's your plan with the fam? I suggest reading "combating cult mind control" by Steven Hassan. His second book might be helpful as well. They outline what to avoid and give suggestions on how to plan an "intervention" carefully and methodically in order to have the highest chance of success in freeing someones mind from a destructive cult.

Uh, you just described a cult. That's classic brainwashing. You need to get these people out, and start adopting deprogramming techniques. I would recommend Combatting Cult Mind Control and releasing the bonds for techinques in helping these people, because they are in a dangerous controlling situation.

Remember that they will actually believe what they are being told. Given advanced brainwashing techniques you can make your followers believe anything you wish, even crap like Xenu. These people WILL believe what they are taught because of this, and being intelligent doesn't make you immune from brainwashing.

The key tactic here is to make them think. Ask them a tough question and let them do as much talking as possible. You cannot confront their beliefs directly, or you become the devil to them, instead you must guide them to the answer on their own.

To be honest, these people really need you. Cults are so damaging. I'd know, I've been in one. Mormonism is a cult.

Good luck.

Im ex Jehovah's witness. I found out by total accident my religion was a satanic mind control cult. So I researched all groups. Turns out the mormons are a cult as well. You will only win your mormon family over with Love. If you attack their faith all your going to do is further implant their "persecution complex" (which is what all cults teach their members)

You need this book

https://www.amazon.ca/Combatting-Cult-Mind-Control-Best-selling/dp/0892813113

It will get easier. https://www.amazon.com/Combatting-Cult-Mind-Control-Best-selling/dp/0892813113 if you haven't yet.

It's not controlling to tell your girlfriend to keep her wits about her. I highly, highly recommend Steven Hassan's book.

http://www.amazon.com/Combatting-Cult-Mind-Control-Best-selling/dp/0892813113

Your girlfriend is going into an environment that may make her feel special and understood, BUT, if the environment is what's controlling her rather than teaching her to control herself, then it's a cult.

Tell her to keep her eyes open and to remain appropriately skeptical. Good luck!

Having your church tell you who to marry is NOT liberal or open-minded. It's what is more commonly called a "cult", in both a sociological and negative sense.

http://www.amazon.com/Combatting-Cult-Mind-Control-Best-selling/dp/0892813113

Anyone who thinks they or someone they love might be in a cult should read this book. You might find out you're fine, but at the very least it will make you avoid the more destructive elements of New Religious Movements.

> Maybe someone needs a book but really most people dont " need" a book about Jehovas witneses ( maybe 100 Best Door Slaming Techniques) See what I mean

I DO see what you mean, and I agree completely! I mean, I've got this library of SGI books and out-of-print books about the SGI, and there's only ONE that I've found anyone to have any independent interest in - Hirotatsu Fujiwara's "I Denounce Soka Gakkai" - and that was simply whether I thought it was the authors siggy inside the front cover! I'll pull out a few paragraphs from these, maybe, but I certainly don't expect anyone else to go to the investment of time and energy to read the damn things!

Reading entire books is the stuff of college courses and grad school, not an anti-cult activism/cult escapee support site!

>the question what is sgi is misleading any way as sure the cult itself love to have a neat little introductory book So dont give the culties ideas

They've already got that O_O

>101 uses for A Dead Ikeda

OMG! YAAAS!! Or at least some scenes reminiscent of "Weekend at Bernie's"! I think I could actually do that - I'll need to brush up on my Photoshop skillz. Stay tuned - probably not today, but perhaps this week.

>I am kind of thinking getting a UK British ex sgi facebook page or something I would like to meet other ex sgi and exchange thoughts / support other people escaping

Well, over here, there's a "Meetup" site where you can advertise for people to get together, and they contact you through that site and confirm so you can get it all set up - that's a pretty easy way to do it, I suppose. wisetaiten back in the day tried, but there was only one person who responded and wasn't close enough, so she didn't try again. Facebook's a good resource, though - why not? And I don't think there's any worry about copyright or anything - don't worry, they'll let you know if there is, but there's plenty of SGI stuff on Facebook. wisetaiten even set up an SGIWhistleblowers Facebook page, but I can't get into it now...

>You do that Brilliantly here on whistle blowers

With YOUR help!

>I do also think some Drs mental health psychologist are needed for some explanations for some people .

"Religious trauma syndrome" is a pretty new definition; I believe the field of psychology is still in catching-up mode as far as cult damage goes. I don't know of any book about cult effects from the medical perspective; for now, Steve Hassan's "Combatting Cult Mind Control" (updated 2015) remains the gold standard; I'd follow that up with Margaret Thaler Singer's "Cults in Our Midst: The Continuing Fight Against Their Hidden Menace" - while I have not read either of these (prolly should, yo), I've used excerpts from them that I've found online and I believe wisetaiten read the Steve Hassan book and posted here about it. The Thaler Singer book is from 2003 and while it includes some cult specifics (Aum, Moonies, among others) it doesn't seem to identify SGI specifically - the Ikeda cult is just that irrelevant. That's another reason that writing such a book is an unappealing prospect - there just isn't much demand for it outside of this little group. Look at our subscriptions - thus far, we're less than 900. There are pages on reddit with millions of subscribers! THEY should write books!

>its deadly serious shit the mental fuck up sgi produces

It certainly is. I know people are often flippant, even silly, around here, but I hope we demonstrate how seriously we take the effects and communicate that appropriately to our visitors.

>like you cant actualy be real unless you go over to hall 1 and bang out load of chanting for 30 minutes before you start activity

Gotta get you in that compliant, gullible, obedient, cooperative trance state first!

>spend 10-20-30 years beliving that stuff and then find out its all a crock of shit if that dont mess ya mind up what will ?

I know. Some say we should just forget all about it, leave it behind like used toilet paper and not give it any more thought than that wad of used toilet paper, but people's minds don't work that way. Of course our SGI critics want us to shut up and they try everything, like shaming us for "focusing on what's in the past, maaaan".

>what is sgi ?

>buncha money grabbing croocks A organised crime syndicate a slick propaganda machine Its just horible organisation

And THERE ya have it, folks!

...or perhaps more accurately, a cult. For which a trained exit councillor is probably the best approach. See Steve Hassan's book on the subject.

Not that things are this point in your situation, but if they become so or are for someone else, please check out Combatting Cult Mind Control. It's an excellent book on why cults are successful, what tactics they employ, and how loved ones can work against them to help get their family members back. In general it's an interesting read and great for keeping you aware of what to look out for if you are investigating a religion to join, and may be useful in conversations with your mother if she's flirting with the idea of joining Scientology.

Steve Hassan has written a book that might help. http://www.amazon.com/Combatting-Cult-Mind-Control-Best-selling/dp/0892813113

Your post was removed by Reddit probably because it was a URL shortner website for Amazon with a referral code. The actual link without a code is https://www.amazon.com/dp/0892813113/

No, this isn't wrong. We certainly have all been there. Truth doesn't require you to not read certain things to remain true. While some things can be confusing, and some require a serious study to get to the bottom of, you should never be afraid of questioning something to prove whether it is true or not. If it's true, you don't have to worry about questioning it.

I was really uncomfortable with the idea of "apostates" myself for a long time; it's been hammered into you from a young age, of course it's scary to think that you might be tricked. But for one thing, there is no trick. You'll have to figure that out for yourself, but I'd encourage you to start trying to figure it out.

Combatting Cult Mind Control was written by Steven Hassan, who had no exposure to the Witnesses prior to writing this book. He writes about his experiences as a Moonie, and the techniques the Unification Church (and others) used to attract people to their organization and keep them in it. You don't have to worry about it being an "apostate" book, since he certainly wasn't affiliated with the witnesses, and didn't even know about them.

The similarities between the Unification Church, and his experience in it, along with the analysis of various other high control groups will help you see that many groups rely on the idea that speaking to former members is one of the worst sins imaginable. It isn't, of course, but it makes an effective tool to keep people tied in to an organization.

If you can, pick up a copy and read it. Visit Hassan's site for a quick overview, this is a good place to start: BITE Model

This isn't an effort to convince you that the organization is a cult, it's just a presentation of how many cults work. Take a look and see if you see any of these elements in the way the organization works.

Let us know how you're doing, though, if you would. We have a pretty caring community here, and it includes some worriers - myself included, I suppose. When people pop on, especially when they're in tough spots, we want to hear that they're doing ok. I hope you are.

I highly suggest this book: Steven Hassan Combatting Cult Mind Control

I just finished reading it recently. It's an incredible and very well researched book on the subject. In short: the LDS church is simply put: "just like the other cults" -- probably a bit less intense generally, but the methodology it uses is no different really.

Yup! Read the book called "Combatting Cult Mind Control" by steve Hassan. Its a fascinating read and although written about his experience in the Moonie cult it gives you insight into how cults work whether religious, secular, political or any other, the methods the leaders use to control, the logic they employ and how they manipulate people are all the same. It is SPOT ON how trump speaks to his base and the methods he uses to distort the truth

I understand you're asking about Scientology as primarily, but you mentioned why the Catholic Church isn't being considered a cult because of actions they've committed in the past.

As for the FBI, there is some precedent to believe that Scientology are under investigation currently. That precedent being that there have been multiple investigations in the past, increased recent public scrutiny (Louis Theroux, Leah Remini) and a recent suspicious death of a Scientology member, it's kinda unlikely to believe that they aren't under investigation, albeit not publicly.

For the longest time they weren't classified as a religion until they wore down the IRS to give them the tax-exempt status of a religion. Until there is video evidence of SeaOrg members torturing and imprisoning members in which those same tortured members are willing to testify against Scientology in court and say they were held against their will, then it's going to take a domestic terror situation to make the government do something about this cult (as is the case in many countries that have their own unique cults).

Obviously you're curious for a real in depth look into Scientology and how it relates to organized religion and whatnot so here's a few book recommendations so you can go beyond Reddit where you definitely won't get the detailed look you might yearn for (BUT WITH BOOKS YOU CAN :D).


Going Clear

Bare-faced Messiah

Combatting Cult Mind Control

That sucks I am sorry your parents have been joined the MAGA cult. There is a book by a former cult member called Combatting Cult Mind Control that might prove helpful. Same author also wrote one specifically on cult MAGA followers.

Autogenerated.

Discussion Megathread: Leah Remini A&E Special + AMA Announcement for Cedars and Steve Hassan!

The long-awaited special will be airing at 9PM ET/PT on Tuesday November 13th, 2018. It will air on the cable channel A&E in the US.

We'll be trying to keep this post up to date with links/details on how to watch Leah's A&E expose as we get them in, so please comment below if you know of a way to watch that isn't listed.

• Here is the Trailer/Discussion of that Trailer.
  
• Here is Who Will be on the Panel
  
  Do you want to Thank Leah? Do that here! A few Folks are organizing a Twitter Storm to thank Leah on November 14, which you can read all about here, or see u/patlynnw:
  
  ​
  
  Watch in Canada on Optik/Teleus
  
  How to Watch in the UK Sun Nov 18th, 7pm
  
  (Possibly) Watch Online, after the fact:
  
  
• The A&E Website
  
• Hulu
  
• Amazon Prime
  
• You can also try your luck with the A&E App.
  
  ​
  
  

  Special AMA Details!!
  

  
  To ease your cult expose hangover, we will also be hosting TWO Special AMAs. Please give a massive thanks to both Cedars and Steve Hassan who have reached out and accepted our AMA invitations! Here is when all that is going down:
  
  ​
  
  Cedars, AKA the inimitable Lloyd Evans- Friday November 16th, 2018. Starting 8AMEST for appx. 24 hours.
  
  Guys, it's Cedars!! Join us as we offer the chance to Q&A one of the most prominent activists in the EXJW community. Lloyd is best known as the Founder of JW Survey and the John Cedars Channel He has also recently authored a book, which is part of a greater wave that is making public the struggles of those in the EXJW community. Lloyd, if I've missed anything (as I am sure I have), let me know. :) For the rest of you, watch this space for the sticky, where you will be able to ask your quesetions!
  
  ​
  
  Steve Hassan- Monday November 19th, 2018. 9AM EST, for appx 24 Hours.
  
  Let's have a round of applause for everyone's favorite cult deprogramming expert! Steve Hassan is the founder of Freedom of Mind, and a leading figure in the movement to define how cults operate and combat their effects. His book "Combating Cult Mind Control" is a cult favorite (no pun intended) among EXJWs and will be having its 30th anniversary this week. Here is an excerpt from his website, with more information:
  
  >"Steven has helped thousands of former cult members and their families, clergy, psychologists and fellow cult experts over the years. He co-developed “Ending the Game”, a non-coercive curriculum designed to educate and empower commercial sex trafficking victims, and has spoken out about the effects, mechanisms, and signs of undue influence in its many forms on 60 Minutes, CNN, NPR, Good Morning America, The Today Show, Larry King Live, Oprah, and many other programs, as well as being featured in People Magazine, USA Today, Newsweek, The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Wall Street Journal, Chicago Tribune, The Guardian, and dozens of other major publications and websites."
  
  Watch "Hot" sort for the sticky next Monday where you can ask Steve whatever you'd like! You won't want to miss this chance.
  
  ​
  
  PS- Sorry we had to clump it all together. Reddit only gives us two stickys.
  
  ​
  
  
  -----------------------------------------------------------
  
  IamAbot_v01. Alpha version. Under care of /u/oppon.
  Comment 1 of 1
  Updated at 2018-11-12 08:24:51.091331
  
  Next update in approximately 20 mins at 2018-11-12 08:44:51.091368

> https://www.amazon.com/dp/0892813113/

ok thanks