Reddit Reddit reviews Deadly Force: Understanding Your Right to Self Defense

We found 16 Reddit comments about Deadly Force: Understanding Your Right to Self Defense. Here are the top ones, ranked by their Reddit score.

Crafts, Hobbies & Home
Books
Home Improvement & Design Books
Deadly Force: Understanding Your Right to Self Defense
Deadly Force Understanding Your Right to Self Defense
Check price on Amazon

16 Reddit comments about Deadly Force: Understanding Your Right to Self Defense:

u/therealjerseytom · 9 pointsr/guns

> I know how to get my CC permit, but under what circumstances can I actually draw the thing. Do I have to be being actively attacked?

To clarify on some other comments - there's emphasis on reasonably believed to be in imminent threat of death or severe bodily harm. That jeopardy, given an attacker's ability and opportunity.

I.e. you can't just shoot someone and tell the jury, "Well I was scared, I feared for my life!" if its completely baseless.

Mas Ayoob has some good reading material on this topic.

> So I guess I want something that is relatively small (not like palm sized james bond finger gun) but that also is enough to stop say a 300+ pound dude charging at me

Just something to bear in mind, pistols - barring some massive 4+ pound .500 S&W revolver, aren't going to blow some bad guy away in one shot. Obviously its not like the movies. Handguns are convenient, light, portable, concealable - but there's a limit. Suffice to say there are a variety of calibers and ammunition types which meet the FBI reference target for penetration, along with varying amounts of muzzle energy, etc.

Worth noting - there's a reason why 9mm is fairly ubiquitous in law enforcement and the military.

In any event if you're primarily concerned about home defense, it's worth at least considering some other platforms, e.g. AR15, a 12 gauge shotgun, etc. Also worth keeping in mind that anything with sufficient energy to reasonably stop a human, is also going to reasonably rip through several walls of your home if you miss (or overpenetrate). As Ayoob I believe points out, the #1 thing is probably to plan how to get your family together in one room, barricaded, if you were to ever face a home invasion, so you're not inadvertently putting them at risk.

> Where would I go for training, and how many sessions would you say is best to be safe?

You could shoot at paper targets every week and be a great shot... and I'm not sure that would ever quite prepare someone for the reality / stress / speed / pressure of a real situation. I don't know how it is to be in that position, and I hope to never know. Maybe there's specialized training for this, I don't know.

In any event, you can for sure seek out an instructor. And I'd say at least go until you feel comfortable with whatever you get, can hit what you're shooting at, etc.

u/Toolaa · 7 pointsr/Firearms

I assume you mean home defense. I’m not familiar with CA laws but I suspect that getting a Concealed Carry permit is a rather difficult process.

So for home defense either caliber would be effective. But there are some things you may want to consider before buying. Assuming you are choosing between the two calibers you me mentioned.

The brand, size, cost of the gun is less important than your ability under stress to fire at your target and get a first round hit in a critical area.

Think about that statement carefully because it really matters. So your ability to build up your skill level, comfortability, muscle memory and situational awareness with your chosen firearm must be priority number one when preparing to defend yourself.

You build those skills through a lot of practice and discipline. Unless money is not a problem for you, you should plan on firing at hundreds of rounds per practice session at the range. The cost of ammo is a factor then, so thats one good reason to choose 9mm.

Now when getting to the type of gun. If it’s for home, meaning you are not carrying this thing on your belt every day, bigger with more the most rounds your state will allow in the magazine is better. A full size gun with roughly a 5” barrel would be a good start. Something like a CZ 75B is not a bad starter. It’s all steel which helps reduce the felt recoil. You cant go wrong with a Glock G17 either, but there are many more good sub $650 options.

If you can swing the extra $100 get a set of Tritium Night Sights.

Lastly if you are a new gun owner I recommend reading either or both of these great books about defending yourself.

Deadly Force: Understanding Your Right to Self Defense Ayoob Massad

And/or

The Law of Self Defense: The Indispensable Guide to the Armed Citizen

Good Luck during your journey

u/Rhenthalin · 6 pointsr/news

You should really read that book I mentioned he addresses that case specifically.

Edit: Link

u/assramajama · 5 pointsr/CCW

If you're looking for further insight on this issue, massad ayoob's most recent book has a section on defensibility of "large" caliber weapons. Deadly Force: Understanding Your Right to Self Defense https://www.amazon.com/dp/1440240612/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awd_OdSAwbK91R66F

u/trigger_pull · 4 pointsr/CCW

Well thank you very much. I've taken a law-oriented CCW class at my local range and read a couple books on the subject by Massad Ayoob, plus some input by firearms instructors. I felt it was extremely important to get a handle on the legal (and many would also say moral) issues surrounding lethal force in self defense.

Ayoob in particular takes you through the whole process of a justified shooting, from the selection of gear, to training and readiness, to proper assessment of a situation, and to the legal aftermath. He's been an expert witness on many, many lawful shooting cases, is a part-time LEO, and an officer-prosecutor in NH. In his books, he mostly focuses on case law, which is much more informative than a simple reading of 'black letter law.' I highly recommend Deadly Force.

u/qweltor · 4 pointsr/CCW

Some gaps that I see:

  • Firearms instruction. Having competent feedback from an experienced instructor will do more for your skill improvement than infinate hours of watching YouTube videos/DVDs or reading articles/books. This is both in firearms skils/marksmanship and for the more "tactical" stuff.

  • Legal instruction about deadly force and use of force. Attend a MAG-40 or -20 course (Rules of Engagement for the Armed Citizen, by Massad Ayoob Group), or a Law of Self-Defense seminar by Andrew Branca. Both instructors have content in book form (Deadly Force, LoSD, or even Kindle), but they lack in instructor interaction.

    > but I watch people like Colion Nior shoot and realize I have allot to go

    They have had the advantage of years of additional practice.

    Be a safe shooter, become a moderately skilled shooter (8" groups @ 7 yds), then test your skill by taking advantage of a local competition. Steel Challenge is mostly shot stationary (draw and shoot). IDPA & USPSA adds some movement to the draw & shoot. You need a pistol, a holster and a couple of magazines to get started.

    -----
    To add:

  • Learn to Call Your Shots

  • Make sure the sight doesn't move when the hammer/striker fires (you can practice this without ammo, then validate at the range with live-fire)
u/Tam212 · 3 pointsr/CCW

The laws regarding deadly force should be codified in the laws and statutes of your state. These would inform you as to whether shooting someone is justifiable or unjustifiable.

​

There are 5 principles to to keep in mind regarding self-defense. You must satisfy all of these conditions.

https://www.claydugas.com/legal-process/self-defense-laws/

  • Principle 1: Innocence.
  • Principle 2: Imminence.
  • Principle 3: Proportionality.
  • Principle 4: Avoidance.
  • Principle 5: Reasonableness.

    Should really read up on such things. Everyone who chooses to be an armed self-defender, imo, should know the relevant state statues on justifiable application of force.

    Additional materials are:

    Andrew Branca's Law of Self Defense, he also has state specific seminars and materials (if you want to pay for them) - http://lawofselfdefense.com

    Massad Ayoob's Deadly Force - https://www.amazon.com/Deadly-Force-Understanding-Right-Defense/dp/1440240612


    edit: typo clean up
u/GotSeoul · 2 pointsr/guns

As far as legit. I thought the training was pretty good. My brother and I took the 4-day Defensive Handgun class and the 4-day practical rifle class. You will read comments elsewhere that refer to Frontsight as a McDojo of gun training. It's not far off. The program is very standardized and the instructors follow the plan. Our instructors were former Army and Marines and they shot very well. And they were very patient. Not a bootcamp at all. My feeling is that we got very good training from them.

We had a great time in the classes and came away with knowledge we didn't have previously. I did actually shoot much better after the 4 day course than before. We will be taking a 2-day skill builder class in March. My brother and I both paid about $100 each for a Commander membership that allows us to take as many of the classes as we want. I have a place in Vegas so easy for me to attend. I haven't met anyone in any of the classes that actually paid the prices listed on the website, although I would speculate that there are some people that have.

I don't believe Frontsight is a scam but as far as marketing tactics you will get a lot of emails with lots of offers to upgrade, last chance to get this deal ... etc. Just use the delete button on your email. I get the same feeling between Frontsight and USCCA regarding the level of their marketing campaigns. The training and the marketing are two separate things at Frontsight based on my experience.

For lawful use of deadly force, I look to the teachings of Massad Ayoob's thoughts on the subject. The frontsight classroom content seems to be derived from Cooper, Ayoob, and others, and is a bit light compared to material from Ayoob and others. It's good that Frontsight teaches topics on lawful use, the color codes of readiness and such, but I would suggest further research into those subjects.

If you do go to Frontsight I think you will learn something from it and will enjoy it.

All this being said, my brother and I are planning on taking the MAG-40 class in July from Massad Ayoob to get a feel for how others train.

Either way, I suggest also getting the Deadly Force ... book by Massad Ayoob. Will definitely give a good foundation on use of the firearm when protecting yourself and what to expect if you actually have to use your weapon for self defense.

https://www.amazon.com/Deadly-Force-Understanding-Right-Defense/dp/1440240612

u/bossoline · 2 pointsr/CCW

Everyone has given you really good advice. I don't have anything to add except a recommendation to read the book Deadly Force--Understanding Your Right to Self Defense by Massad Ayoob. IMO, everyone who has the capacity to use deadly force should read it. It will answer a lot of your questions on this topic.

u/Cletusvandayam · 1 pointr/guns
u/Handsoffmygats · 1 pointr/alaska

/r/CCW Spend sometime getting to learn what firearm you are going to carry and read some literature like [Deadly Force - Understanding Your Right To Self Defense by Massad Ayoob] (https://www.amazon.com/Deadly-Force-Understanding-Right-Defense/dp/1440240612/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1537489878&sr=8-1&keywords=deadly+force+massad+ayoob) Also read our laws. They are very specific. If you are not feeling comfortable yet start with just carrying the holster then step it up as you go. There are plenty of resources to help you learn.

u/Vote_4Cthulhu · 1 pointr/CCW
u/ElbowDeepInIt · 1 pointr/CCW

Tueller's Rule would beg to differ that. Many tests have shown someone with a knife can close a gap of almost 30 feet in less than a couple seconds. Depending on who's carrying, that's faster than they can draw.

Everyone carrying should read this book. Tons of source material that, if you've read it, can be introduced in a court.

u/MonacoE92 · 0 pointsr/JusticeServed

I don't know what you mean with "alive" vs dead. There is nothing in the law that talks about "alive".

Imminent threat means right that very second. You can't say "Well I thought he COULD be a threat so I shot him some more". That's a felony. It's called manslaughter, or 2nd degree murder if the prosecutor chooses to go that route.

Once the threat is no longer there (i.e. a guy who has been shot 20 times and dropped his gun and collapsed into a crumpled up heap) you can no longer shoot. The law is extremely clear on this and there are cases upon cases of precedent further proving what it means. You can not shoot unless a threat of imminent death or great bodily harm is there. My original point is that had this been a civilian and not a cop, they likely would have faced the possibility of jail time.

https://www.arsenalattorneys.com/firearms-blog/self-defense-case-study-frank-trujillo

I highly recommend you read this book by an expert firearms instructor and former criminal defense attorney if you would like to better understand the law on deadly force: https://www.amazon.com/Deadly-Force-Understanding-Right-Defense/dp/1440240612

u/funandgun · -2 pointsr/guns

Another hot tip before you begin going trigger happy is to call 911 beforehand (if possible) and make sure you mention that you're scared for your life. Obviously, that's not a realistic scenario all the time.

Just speed read this book by Mr. Ayoob instead.