Reddit reviews How to Talk So Teens Will Listen and Listen So Teens Will Talk

Social worker here. Contrary to what other posters are saying, I might report this to CPS for suspicion of emotional abuse. The key factor is how long you're doing it for. Complete isolation from peers is detrimental to an adolescent's social and emotional development. A week or two of isolation? They'll survive. A month? Borderline. Six months? I'm absolutely calling it in.

Now, CPS wouldn't remove your child from the home in this situation. They would most likely provide information on adolescent developmental needs and encourage you to let your kid have some limited social contact. It's possible they would require you to do so and/or require you to take a parenting class. This would be a very good thing. You can learn techniques to end the power struggle and restore (or create for the first time) a relationship built on trust and respect. If you want to look into that on your own, some good starting points are this web site and this book.

ETA: Also, check out r/parenting!

The current top commenter has this to say:

>He sounds like he was maxed out and didn't really know how to handle his anger

This is partially right and partially wrong. To expand on that:

Fatigue affects executive function and emotional control. It's a well-studied fact: higher-level functions require more mental and physical effort and all of us are worse at using them when fatigued. (This can be caused by lack of sleep, physical exertion, mental exertion, stress, anxiety, or whatever.) Even on a good day our mental performance is generally worse in the evening than when we're fresh in the morning (and we tend to have shorter fuses). Kids, with their already under-developed brains, experience this very strongly. (God forbid a toddler get overtired...!)

The solution is generally to learn to recognize when we have - in u/SuperChoopieBoopies words - "maxed out" (or are approaching it) so that we can step back, take a break, deescalate, and replenish.

The irony is, your son did recognize he was at his limit, and he told you so, both in words and disposition. But...

>he was clearly feeling aggressive and we thought it would be best if he burnt off some steam

... I think you weren't particularly receptive to his needs there...

>He continues to berate us telling us we don't care about him, etc., and that he's never aggressive at camp because they care about him and listen to him.

... And he seems to agree. If anything good comes out of someone completely losing self-control, it's that they're generally honest with you about their feelings.

None of your actions here seem to have been particularly constructive. Arguing with someone in the heat of the moment is rarely a win for anybody. Kids (like adults) aren't particularly rational when they're upset, and especially not during a meltdown. Throwing out threats during a meltdown...

>I state that if we can't trust him to control his aggression at home then he won't go on youth camp next week.

... is far more likely to escalate the situation than deescalate it. He's not in a rational state (or he wouldn't be acting out to begin with), so think about what you're doing there: you're attempting to overwhelm his anger and all his other roiling emotions by creating an even larger fear. That's probably going to backfire, but even in the event that it works it isn't much of a "win."

Have you ever witnessed a hostage negotiation? You don't deescalate a situation with threats. You deescalate it by listening. That's literally what your kid "berated" you about immediately after your threat.

Empathy is key to all things.

>What should I have done differently

1. (A) Do a better job of listening to and considering his words and his feelings, and recognizing when he's reaching his limits. (B) Help him to identify his own feelings and limits. Help him to verbalize those things appropriately. (Babies and toddlers are all emotions and no words. As we teach them to communicate - and as we learn to listen - their use of screaming and tantrums and meltdowns to communicate their problems becomes less necessary.) Help him find strategies for what to do when he's feeling overwhelmed.
   
   
2. Don't try to rationalize with or threaten him when he's having a meltdown. Listen and make sure he has somewhere to go to cool off. Unless he's literally standing on a ledge, you can resolve the problem later when everyone has a cooler head.
   
   
3. Treat problems as problems. You don't solve a problem with a quick unilateral decision. You solve a problem by understanding all its facets and putting your heads together. That means you have to sit down and actually listen to and understand his perspective, and then explain to him yours, before the two of you work out a solution that works for both of you.
   
   >what should I do now?
   
   Sit down with him tomorrow at some point where you're both calm, and say, "I think we both really handled that badly last night. You said I wasn't listening to you and I think you were right about that. There was a lot of yelling and threatening back and forth and that wasn't helping anyone. I'm sorry for my part in that. I want to hit the reset button on this and try again. ..." Then return to the above list. Don't insist on an apology from him. He'll give it when he feels it; a forced apology isn't an apology at all.
   
   Yes, all of these things involve listening. The more you really listen to him, the more inclined he'll be to listen to you. Empathy is key to all things.
   
   Finally, you may want to check out How to Talk so Teens Will Listen and Raising Human Beings (or if this is a more significant, chronic problem, The Explosive Child, which is the same problem-solving strategy with a little bit of paperwork). If you find yourself having difficulty communicating well, family therapy might be in order.
   
   Edit: list formatting, ugh

She's 12 and can't stay out until 8?

She's 12 and being called "baby" and having you referred to as Daddy?

And then there's screaming... Shoot.

I would start treating her as less of a little kid. Which may sound counter-intuitive, but you're not going to get great behaviour out of treating her like she's 9. Which includes the back-and-forth part here; it's like you're coaxing a toddler. Don't do that. "I need you home now; I'll be there at [time] to pick you up," and don't text again, and just arrive.

It takes two to have a fight, so don't engage with the yelling.

Non-punishment-based discipline is a lot more peaceful (and, generally, effective) but I don't know of a good reference for it for tweens -- anybody got a suggestion? Faber and Mazlish probably have your back on this, though.

What a tremendous responsibility! This is certainly a challenge, and you're brave and compassionate to be willing to give this young man a start. From my experience as a teacher, a 16-year-old is very much not an adult. I don't have children that age myself (mine is much younger), but have taught many kids in that age range who have gone through similar life events. You don't mention whether he has any disabilities, or whether he's been receiving therapy, but in my experience kids that old who are in foster care can have difficulty trusting adults and demonstrate difficult behaviors. I can give you a few of pieces of advice from my experience (again, primarily as a teacher):

• Kids do dumb stuff. He will do some things - perhaps many things - that are ludicrously stupid or dangerous. He may do some of them intentionally and some unintentionally. Your job is to be calm and safe in your response to these things. (There have been days when I find myself chanting, "I am a calm and safe adult, I am a calm and safe adult," in my head.)
  
• Show interest in his interests. This doesn't mean you need to share his interests. If he loves, for example, reading fantasy novels, you don't have to read them too. But you do need to ask about them, or buy him some, or ask about when he first started reading them.
  
• At least initially, just observe and try some things. Take an almost anthropological interest. Does he have acne? Then make an acne facewash appear in the bathroom. Does he wear the same sports team shirt over and over? A couple more of those appear in his closet. Does he show an interest in drawing? Colored pencils and a sketchpad appear in the dining room. Does he like cereal? Stock favorites in the cupboard. You get the idea. Coming at a kid with questions, especially a teenaged boy kid, often doesn't yield much, but when they notice you've noticed, they often begin to open up.
  
• Ignore secondary behaviors. These are behaviors that occur in response to a consequence or boundary. For example, when a kid finds out he's grounded and screams, "I hate you," that I hate you is the secondary behavior. That's not important unless it's actively dangerous, and engaging it will just lead to a struggle. You can practice some responses to this sort of thing, like just calmly saying, "All right," or "I'm sorry you feel that way," or "Bummer." (And you can avoid the secondary behaviors somewhat by making consequences reasonable and natural - fitting the infraction, like working to pay off something that's broken or spending time picking up trash in a local park after being caught littering.)
  
• Offer choices within limits. Perhaps offer choice about what you'll be having for dinner, or when he'll be expected to be home at night. You have to be a little more clever about it with older kids than with little ones, because you don't want them to feel manipulated. But allowing him to have control in some areas will make it easier for you to control things that are truly dangerous or non-negotiable.
  
• Be very, very consistent and trustworthy. Make your home as regular and predictable as possible. Get up at the same time every day; have the same routines for daily tasks. Mean what you say. If you say you're going to be somewhere at a certain time, you must be there at that time; if you say you're going to pick up pizza on the way home, you must pick up pizza, etc.
  
  In terms of what to read, I'd definitely ask other people who have experience this same thing. I'm sure they'll have ideas. If he's experienced trauma, I highly recommend reading or even taking a class about the sorts of effects that can have on a developing brain. Here are two books I like for this age range. Although I know you're not technically "parenting," they should still offer some good advice for getting along with teens in general:
  
  
• How to Talk So Teens Will Listen and Listen So Teens Will Talk
  
• Parenting Teens with Love and Logic
  
  Good luck! I'm sure you'll do a great job helping this young man transition from childhood to adulthood.
  
  ETA: I reread your initial post and saw that in the UK he's technically classified as an adult (!), so some of what I've said here about consequences and whatnot may apply less than it would in the US. The predictability, routine, consistency, interest, and calm are still the key things I'd focus on.

OP you need to understand that your decision to not invite your new daughter to your wedding WILL have consequences. It will cause (perhaps irreparable) damage to her relationship with you and her own father. It will also damage her sense of self worth, most likely for life.

Are you willing to jeopardize life-long consequences for your new daughter against having a fun, stress free party that lasts exactly one day?

I get that she is being difficult. I teach high school, but I used to teach seventh grade so I get how terrible 12 year olds can act. Especially, hurt 12 year olds. You just have to remember that you are the adult and soon to be parent in this relationship. You cannot look at this situation as "you against her". This attitude will be disastrous for both of you and will never work at improving your relationship with her.

May I suggest a book for you? How to Talk to Teens so Teens Will Listen and Listen so Teens Will Talk is one of the books I read early on in my teaching career that helped me build relationships with troubled teens.

Hi internet stranger.

Good on you for caring about your family. It's clear you love them even though you're frustrated with them. I'm sorry there's so much stress. I don't have an easy answer for it. It's impossible to control the stress that's outside of yourself, but you can plan for it and plan how to react to it.

Do you know how to communicate assertively? Your mom heard the word,"Shit!" directed at her and felt blamed and attacked. So she reacted with anger and your needs weren't heard over her own emotions.

It's a way to state what you need and want without blaming others. It's less likely to escalate a situation and more likely to help you get what you want. You could try this link from Mayo Clinic about assertive strategies. Here's another link to Assertiveness Tools. A big trick though is being able to disengage and deescalate. (Take a deep breath, "I need space to think right now because I'm angry, but will come back when I feel I can do so" Walk away. Repeat as needed.)

Threatening bodily harm is not banter even if it's not acted on. It's wrong and should stop as it's an abusive counter productive pattern. I realize it was your mom in this case, but if you've engaged in it in the past, please stop. It's a pattern that needs to be broken and the only one you can control is yourself. So please, make sure to take care of yourself first. Have you all ever done family therapy? If you can, do so. Learning to talk and listen to each other during conflict is vital.

For your sister. Parenting her is your mom's job, not yours. It sounds like it's been super hard for a long time and I'm sorry to hear it. Yes, if you can lend strength and support to your family, do so, but if you're reaching a breaking point you need to step back. If taking care of yourself means being somewhere else, do it. ["How to Talk so Teens will Listen"] (https://www.amazon.com/How-Talk-Teens-Will-Listen/dp/0060741260/ref=pd_sbs_14_img_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=4B591E7FRHXNNKKGAF23) helped me with talking with others--especially teenagers. It's an easy to read book available at many libraries or books stores. Lend it to your mom.
She needs to be able to step to a calm place in her heart and put down the threats. Doing so takes real practice, but it can be done. Threats are not okay in so many ways.

Other thoughts: Sentences that have helped me during conflict.

"I'm really mad right now. I'm really mad, but I love you always and I want to solve this problem with you not against you."

"Can we just stop and hug each other? I'm so sad and I just want to be not mad anymore." (Maybe you can use this and go hug your mom if you want.)

"Can we talk about this after we've eaten?" (Okay, maybe that's just me. I get hangry like crazy.)

I hope your family works through this. I know that nothing here will make things magically okay. I also know that even if you all start trying to do your best to be calmer and kinder during arguments with all your hearts it won't just magically happen and all the anger go away. It's hard. Again, the only one you can actually directly control is yourself. Treat yourself kindly and respect. Work to do the same with others.
Goodluck.

I highly recommend you check out Adele Faber's books on talking to kids. I've only read the ones specifically for working with younger children and the one specifically for teachers, but she does have one about talking to teens.

Get the book "How To Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk," and then when he's older, get the sequel for teens. They're brilliant.

http://www.amazon.com/How-Talk-Kids-Will-Listen/dp/1451663889
http://www.amazon.com/How-Talk-Teens-Will-Listen/dp/0060741260