Reddit Reddit reviews I Never Called It Rape: The Ms. Report on Recognizing, Fighting, and Surviving Date and Acquaintance Rape

We found 8 Reddit comments about I Never Called It Rape: The Ms. Report on Recognizing, Fighting, and Surviving Date and Acquaintance Rape. Here are the top ones, ranked by their Reddit score.

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I Never Called It Rape: The Ms. Report on Recognizing, Fighting, and Surviving Date and Acquaintance Rape
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8 Reddit comments about I Never Called It Rape: The Ms. Report on Recognizing, Fighting, and Surviving Date and Acquaintance Rape:

u/Illicit_Frolicking · 38 pointsr/TrollXChromosomes

To be fair, lots of guys do need to learn not to rape. This book details a study done concerning the understanding of whether or not an act would be considered rape. 1 in 6 out of 1882 men, (ages ranging from 18 to 71, median age 26) answered "yes" to at least one of the following questions:

  1. Have you ever been in a situation where you tried, but for various reasons did not succeed, in having sexual intercourse with an adult by using or threatening to use physical force (twisting their arm, holding them down, etc.) if they did not cooperate?

  2. Have you ever had sexual intercourse with someone, even though they did not want to, because they were too intoxicated (on alcohol or drugs) to resist your sexual advances (e.g., removing their clothes)?

  3. Have you ever had sexual intercourse with an adult when they didn’t want to because you used or threatened to use physical force (twisting their arm; holding them down, etc.) if they didn’t cooperate?

  4. Have you ever had oral sex with an adult when they didn’t want to because you used or threatened to use physical force (twisting their arm; holding them down, etc.) if they didn’t cooperate?

    Lisak & Miller at 77-78.

    And yet denied ever having raped or attempting to rape someone. And most of those men were repeat offenders. Between them there was an average for 5.8 rapes committed each. That's over 400 rapes, by people that did not consider themselves rapists.
u/i_fake_it · 9 pointsr/TwoXChromosomes

> that sort of maybe falls under the definition of rape

Excuse me? This is not a grey area. If the woman does not consent (she was asleep, she obviously didn't consent!), then it is rape. It really is that simple.

> where the women never even called it rape themselves

Most rape victims don't call it rape. There is an interesting book that deals with this subject called, you won't believe it, I never called it rape.

> and hadn't brought the rape charges themselves, and as far as I can tell don't really care to persue them either.

Irrelevant. If someone steals your purse and tries to kill you and you only go to the police because you want your purse back, that person will of course be charged with attempted murder even if you don't care to pursue those charges.

u/impsnipe · 5 pointsr/relationships

I'm recommending a book for you to read. It helped me immensely through a very similar situation a long time ago.

I Never Called It Rape

u/kuroiniji · 2 pointsr/FeMRADebates

Before taking any of the claims presented in the article referenced in the OP into account, you need to take into account what the grant funding (Grant No. 2002-WA-BX-0011) was actually for. In this case the grant was for staff training and the development of an advocacy program [1]. It's also interesting to note that some of the grant funding appears to go towards a production of The Vagina Monologues and a performance by feminist activist hip-hop duo AquaMoon [1 pp 3].

Given that the grant application was made in January 2006 [1 pp 55], it is curious that they cited Mary Koss's 1985 Ms. Magazine Campus Project on Sexual Assault survey [2] and not the more recent 2000 Sexual Victimization of College Women study [3] performed by the National Institute of Justice which provides similar estimates.

The Koss study has been widely criticised, mainly because the researchers decided if the survey participants were raped, not the participants themselves.

> There are several reasons for serious researchers to question the magnitude of sexual assault conveyed by the Ms. findings. To begin with, a notable discrepancy exists between Koss's definition of rape and the way most women she labeled as victims interpreted their experiences. When asked directly, 73 percent of the students whom Koss categorized as victims of rape did not think that they had been raped. This discrepancy is underscored by the subsequent behavior of a high proportion of identified victims, forty-two percent of whom had sex again with the man who supposedly raped them. Of those categorized as victims of attempted rape, 35 percent later had sex with their purported offender.
>
> Rape and attempted rape were operationally defined in the Ms. study by five questions, three of which referred to the threat or use of "some degree of physical force." The other two questions, however, asked: "Have you had a man attempt sexual intercourse (get on top of you, attempt to insert his penis) when you didn't want to by giving you alcohol or drugs, but intercourse did not occur? Have you had sexual intercourse when you didn't want to because a man gave you alcohol or drugs?" Forty-four percent of all the women identified as victims of rape and attempted rape in the previous year were so labeled because they responded positively to these awkward and vaguely worded questions. What does having sex "because" a man gives you drugs or alcohol signify? A positive response does not indicate whether duress, intoxication, force, or the threat of force were present; whether the woman's judgment or control were substantially impaired; or whether the man purposely got the woman drunk to prevent her from resisting his sexual advances. It could mean that a woman was trading sex for drugs or that a few drinks lowered the respondent's inhibitions and she consented to an act she later regretted. Koss assumes that a positive answer signifies the respondent engaged in sexual intercourse against her will because she was intoxicated to the point of being unable to deny consent (and that the man had administered the alcohol for this purpose). While the item could have been clearly worded to denote "intentional incapacitation of the victim," as the question stands it would require a mind reader to detect whether an affirmative response corresponds to a legal definition of rape. [4]

The other interesting thing about the Koss study is that even though the title is gender neutral Hidden rape: sexual aggression and victimization in a national sample of students in higher education, the implementation isn't. It only looks at the incidence of rape of women, not the whole student population. The only thing that seems to be hidden is the rape of men by women.

> The data on the incidence and prevalence of sexual aggression and victimization after the age of 14 were obtained through the use of the 10 item Sexual Experiences Survey (Koss &Oros, 1982; Koss & Gidycz, 1985). This survey has been described as a self-report instrument that is designed to reflect various degrees of sexual aggression and victimization and is capable of identifying hidden rape victims and offenders from among a "normal" population. During actual administration separate wordings were used for women and for men. However, for purposes of demonstration, the female wording is presented in the following sample and the male wording is indicated in parentheses: "Have you ever had sexual intercourse when you (the woman) didn't want to because a man (you) used some degree of force -- such as twisting your (her) arm or holding you (her) down?" The text of all 10 items (female wording) can be found in Table 3 which is described fully in the results section. [2 pp 14]

Even though there appears to be numerous publications supporting the claims being made, the vast majority of these appear to have come from a single source, Acquaintance rape: The hidden crime [5]. Mary Koss' paper was included as a chapter in this book, there are also chapters from Malamuth, White and Humphrey, and Gidycz.

Now for some fact checking, some of the claims made in the article linked in the OP don't add up or are misrepresented.

> In a survey of male college students:
>
> + 35% anonymously admitted that, under certain circumstances, they would commit rape if they believed they could get away with it (ref 6,7).
> + One in 12 admitted to committing acts that met the legal definitions of rape, and 84% of men who committed rape did not label it as rape.(ref 6,7)

The 35% figure cited as coming from "survey of male college students" actually comes from a paper by Malamuth summarising six studies carried out by Malamuth and other researchers [6 pp 140]. The average incidence of men saying they rape if the believed they would get away with it is 35%, the thing is that the studies aren't necessarily comparable. Each study uses different scenarios, such as exposure to pornography, using media accounts that include violent descriptions, using media accounts that include non-violent descriptions, viewing a videotaped interview with a rape victim, and no exposure to any of the previously mentioned things at all.

The "One in 12" claim doesn't actually appear in the Malamuth paper, it comes from the book I never called it rape: The" Ms." report on recognizing, fighting, and surviving date and acquaintance rape which reports the findings of Mary Koss' campus sexual assault survey.

> Based on first-person accounts, scholarly studies and data from a nationwide survey of college campuses conducted by Ms. magazine, freelance journalist Warshaw draws a devastating portrait of men who rape women they know. The Ms. survey reveals that 25% of the college women polled have been the victims of rape or attempted rape, 84% of the victims were acquainted with the attacker and 57% of the rapes happened on dates. One in 12 of the male respondents admitted to acts that meet the legal definition of rape or attempted rape. Warshaw, herself the victim of an acquaintance rape, handles an inherently sensational subject with compassion and restraint. She describes and condemns the social milieu that condones such acts by encouraging men to see sex as conquest and women to view sexual coercion as part of the "dating game." There is realistic, practical advice on how women can protect themselves against attacks by acquaintances and on how men can prevent this type of rape. [7]

The two findings aren't even from the same survey or study.

If you are wondering why I chose to look into this in more depth, have a look at the author of the last reference on the page the OP posted, Heise, L.L. Reproductive freedom and violence against women: where are the intersections? J Law Med Ethics. 1993;21(2):206-216..

  1. UIC Campus Advocacy Network - Grant Application: Office of Violence Against Women Grants to Reduce Violence Against Women on Campus
  2. Koss, M. P., Gidycz, C. A., & Wisniewski, N. (1987). The scope of rape: incidence and prevalence of sexual aggression and victimization in a national sample of higher education students. Journal of consulting and clinical psychology, 55(2), 162.
  3. Fisher, B. S., Cullen, F. T., & Turner, M. G. (2000). The Sexual Victimization of College Women. Series: Research Report. NCJ.
  4. Gilbert, N. (1992). Realities and mythologies of rape. Society, 29(4), 4-10.
  5. Parrot, A., & Bechhofer, L. (Eds.). (1991). Acquaintance rape: The hidden crime. New York: Wiley.
  6. Malamuth, N. M. (1981). Rape proclivity among males. Journal of social issues, 37(4), 138-157.
  7. Warshaw, R. (1988). I never called it rape: The" Ms." report on recognizing, fighting, and surviving date and acquaintance rape. Harper & Row Publishers.
u/secv808 · 2 pointsr/politics

Thank you for the reply. I agree that sources other than the journals themselves often misrepresent or exaggerate information. I have tried to find instances where the data is reported as presented in the research themselves. I know it is a long post, so if you are short on time I would recommend reading the last research paper presented authored by Murray Straus. It provides many more examples than my own searching and memory can produce.

The most prominent example that comes to mind is the "1 in 4 college women will be sexually assaulted" stat that is repeated often in media and by politicians. It originated from a survey conducted by Ms. Magazine and has gone on to inform public awareness campaigns, advocacy groups (including my local shelters), campus procedure, and political speeches. I can't find a link to the original report, although I think it is covered in I Never called It Rape. Christina Hoff Summers wrote a criticism of this research, and others, as well as the implications of the research in 1995 while at Clark University. Neil Gilbert of University of Minnesota also criticized the findings in in 1998.

One of Koss's other publications The Scope of Rape specifically only examines female victimization and male aggression. While I would not fault a researcher for having a narrow focus, it is worth questioning why that focus is narrow given the wider scope of the issue. A quote endorsed by Koss is presented on page 169: "It is difficult to believe that such widespread violence is the responsibility of a small lunatic fringe of psychopathic men. That sexual violence is so pervasive supports the view that the locus of violence against women rests squarely in the middle of what our culture defines as 'normal' interaction between men and women."

The Campus Sexual Assault Study Final Report published in 2007 provided support to Koss's report, stating a figure of 1 in 5. Primary criticism against the study informing policy include the validity of survey questions, variance in survey wording affecting outcomes, and response rate.

Another study, reported in Newsweek and published in the journal Violence and Gender (["...the first and only peer-reviewed journal focusing on the understanding, prediction, and prevention of acts of violence."(http://www.liebertpub.com/overview/violence-and-gender/620/)), claimed that 1 in 3 men would rape if they could get away with it. The study was found to be flawed in many ways, primarily that it reported a 1 in 3 ratio based even though the questionnaire used a sliding scale rating of 1 to 5. A correction was posted, but does not provide an abstract.

Another example would be the CDC decision to classify rapes of men by women as a separate category, "made to penetrate." That data can then reported to support the statement that women are raped more often than men since male vs. male rape is of a much lower rate than male vs. female in civilian population. The lifetime rates for men were not available due to small number of responses, but the 12 month prevalence for MTP was recorded alongside rape. The two numbers are within about 200,000 responses. Also note that the press release for this publication does not mention the victimization rates for straight men, and misrepresents a statistic for gay men by combining it with lesbians (and using hedging language (equal to or higher than). The NISVS home page only states the victimization rates for women in its description.


In regard to domestic violence, the prevailing understanding, at least at the public policy level, is that women are the large majority of victims. However, the late Murray Straus was involved in publishing several papers disputing that claim including Thirty Years of Denying the Evidence on Gender Symmetry in Partner Violence.... Published in Partner Abuse in 2010, it outlines the evidence of gender symmetry in partner violence, how that evidence has been obscured, possible explanations why evidence is obscured, and how obscuring evidence has negatively affected prevention and treatment programs. He includes specific examples of research including publications from the World Health Organization and government bodies.

Thank you for your time.

u/Three5 · 0 pointsr/funny

So I provide 4 links, that reference the same numbers, and all cite different things for the statistic. You find an article published by the school which includes a citation, and then say the citation doesn't count. To expand on this, you're going to find varying numbers everywhere due to under reporting. Which means the actual number is likely higher.

This book: http://www.amazon.com/Never-Called-Rape-Recognizing-Acquaintance/dp/0060925728
http://www.cdc.gov/ViolencePrevention/pdf/sv-datasheet-a.pdf
etc.

I didn't clarify, sexual is defined as, "a statutory offense that provides that it is a crime to knowingly cause another person to engage in an unwanted sexual act by force or threat."

u/raziphel · 0 pointsr/MensLib

I don't know what other post you're talking about. be more specific with your "you", please.

> Historical examples:

You're asking a lot here and it's not easy to condense. You do understand that this is not something that can easily be quantified as an example without producing books of literature, right? I'll do what I can, but you will need to be understanding here, because some of these are less direct, but examine the historical and social environments that allow this behavior to flourish. You also must look at how women have been treated throughout history, which is reflected even today (as second-class citizens, if not just property). Context is important, after all, and a lot of these examples also point to the problem I mentioned. This also involves rape culture... which I expect you to hand-wavingly dismiss.

Well to start The History of rape. Too many things to quote there, but you'll just have to read the article.

Victim blaming.

Sexual objectification

https://www.amazon.com/Never-Called-Rape-Recognizing-Acquaintance/dp/0060925728/ref=pd_sbs_14_t_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=0NVJJRC4DX1Q2PKEXFRG

"women submit to your husbands" link, for one. Notably that the bible (whether you agree with it or not) is the base for a great deal of our society and law.

Look at the pushback regarding women's suffrage and the messages they contain.

Laws against women (international)

historical US laws against women

A list of books on gender roles that will likely give you what you want (but I doubt you'll actually read them).

Sexual coercion history, calloused sexual beliefs and judgments of sexual coercion in a date rape analogue.

What Does 'Sexual Coercion' Say About A Society?

If you want to look at the Quran for guidance, how about you look at actual facts also: for example Rape in Saudi Arabia, where women are punished more harshly than men, or laws regarding rape victims and Honor Killings, specifically in regard to rape victims. What do those things say about their societies?

Natural history of rape

Rape culture and Spirituality

Rape culture and victim-blaming

Marital rape which frankly, isn't even a crime in some places.

Partner rape

Why women who are sexually assaulted remain silent

Keeping women in their place

Rape culture

More about rape culture

Being Silenced: The Impact of Negative Social Reactions on the Disclosure of Rape

Sexual coercion.

One of the telling points is that things like the previous links exist because this is a significant problem. Recent examinations of this problem do not mean the problem no longer exists, or didn't exist, in the past. These things don't just appear ex nihilo.

TLDR: women are encouraged to not report, and when they do, they're punished for it by society (legally and otherwise). Even when they fight back, they're still demonized. They are told that what happened either "wasn't rape" or was "their fault."

----

Now, if you want actual examples of this in action (instead of links, research, studies, etc. that point to it), you'll have to look at some very detestable stuff, like this, but frankly, I don't want to search too far into that shit.

u/ILikeNeurons · 0 pointsr/MensLib

Maybe you need an example.

When she was 17, a friend of mine was raped by her boyfriend. They'd been dating for over a year, but she was religious and "saving herself" for marriage. He knew this. She talked about it often, had Bible studies, etc. But one night, when they were fooling around (as they usually did) he slipped it in just a little I guess to see what would happen. She responded with shock. And, seeing her response, he also responded with shock. She immediately started trying to think how to make this less bad, and decided, apparently, that she just have lots of sex, because it was too late to save her virginity for her husband future, and she didn't want that to be the only sex she had (which is apparently a typical response for rape victims. So she started having lots of sex, with several men (including, at first, her shitty rapist boyfriend -- because she hadn't called it rape at the time, though that's what it was).

Sex without consent is rape, whether it's committed by a stranger with a weapon in a dark alley or (more likely) a first date, a boyfriend, or a husband.