Reddit reviews In Sheep's Clothing: Understanding and Dealing with Manipulative People
We found 20 Reddit comments about In Sheep's Clothing: Understanding and Dealing with Manipulative People. Here are the top ones, ranked by their Reddit score.
In Sheep s Clothing Understanding and Dealing with Manipulative People
You should be able to filter their messages to a folder whether you're on an iPhone or an Android.
Then texts go to 'their' folder automatically. You don't have to see them but can check the folder daily, every couple of days or weekly (whatever works for you) & skim msgs for craziness.
This is better than blocking them because it lets you monitor texts on your schedule & gives you a record if legal action becomes appropriate.
If FIL comes after y'all you may have to send them a No Contact letter (certified, return receipt) & call the police if he shows up at your front door & won't leave. You can call the cops without a letter but it provides the authorities more reason to keep them away.
Relax as much as you can. You're adults. They can't guilt you or DH if you don't care. If they try to interfere in your lives you can stop them. Keeping them out of your lives is less stressful than allowing their ugliness / crazy in. Especially with children.
Here's /u/madpiratebippy 's reading list, cut & pasted from a post with her comments:
by Alice Miller. This was THE BOOK that started to set me free. It's a must read book for people with narc/abusive parents and their partners, in my opinion.
is a classic about how to see the manipulative patterns from abusive parents and get free of them.
by Dr. George Simon. Man has a PhD in manipulation, and breaks down what the manipulators DO and how to shut it down. He's studied this for 20 years and it's AMAZING.
Take a deep breath & share your experiences & questions here. You're not alone. Y'all can do this.
EDIT: fixed link (thanks /u/Starkmoon)
My mind added 'Wolves' to it, sorry, it is actually In Sheep's Clothing: Understanding and Dealing with Manipulative People. It has been a fascinating read.
Dear u/arcelyte's mom,
Please don't be ashamed of being a good person with a trusting nature. The Teds and Lindas of the world are predators; they are master manipulators, cunning and remorseless. They know how to present a false front to get behind the defenses of good people and work it to their advantage. You might find Dr. Simon's In Sheep's Clothing helpful in understanding the mindset and how to protect yourself in the future.
I cannot believe how accurate "middleof michiganMP's" comments are. I am amazed at the clarity of description that he/she writes. I couldn't agree more. I witnessed it and I tried to change it. I questioned it and I was eventually a victim of it. We left, and few would speak to us. And of course the slant is that we were wrong. Narcissist personality disorder is accurate.
Read "wolves in sheep's clothing"
.https://www.amazon.com/dp/1935166301/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_t1_bXu3AbPNBRRCC
Classic covert aggression. It does have to end. There are good people there. On the ground level of all cults there are always good and unsuspecting people that the leadership uses. It is so sad. So many people have left on bad terms. We have counted fifty for sure negative stories. There are soamy more. Some don't believe anymore. "Woe to anyone who causes one of these little ones to sin." Barry will answer for all of this someday. The interesting thing I remember is that, subtle as it might have been, Barry would entice you away from extended family and draw you to "body life". Any negative experience with extended family one shares with him becomes leverage, and he would "encourage" you to "consider" drawing closer to the "body". None of the leadership would really speak kindly of their families and conveniently, their families were somehow always less spiritual and a potential negative effect on your spiritual health. That is not okay nor healthy. Classic cult move. There is truly greener grass than Grace Church. Have courage, those of you who want out. God loves you and there are good churches. Although that pastor would have you believe there is no other good and Godly church, there are. Don't let him lure you back in with enticemts of leadership or visions of a great, "internship, ministry experience, summer extreme camping, planning a fun run, or mission trip to Myanmar". He is very good at what he does.
"THat's just how she is" is the clarion call of the enabler. When you hear that, GIANT RED ALARMS should be going through your head.
No, you DON'T have to learn how to deal with her- which is him asking you to enable her, roll over, and do what she wants.
I suggest your way of dealing with her is firm boundaries, calling her on her shit every time, never giving her a dime until she stops gambling, and making him read this book.
I'm reading "Surviving a Borderline Parent," and so far so good. It's by one of the same authors as Stop Walking on Eggshells, but more geared towards children of BPD parents. It doesn't discuss NC but it's helping me understand myself better. I love "In Sheep's Clothing." I didn't understand why I related to this book so much. It's because it's based on a psychiatrist's work with felons in prison with personality disorders! He explains all the manipulation tactics they use and how to avoid them. Very empowering.
https://www.amazon.com/Sheeps-Clothing-Understanding-Dealing-Manipulative/dp/1935166301
As to the guilt, this is YOUR life and YOUR story. You own it and you have every right to speak your truth. That guilt you feel is just another manipulation tactic used to keep you from getting outside support and validation. Secrets keeps us in shame. Tell us your story! We want to know and we get it. :)
I was raised with similar messages: all strange men are trying to get in your pants, you can't trust them one bit, etc etc.
Funny how the people who have ACTUALLY been untrustworthy and tried to harm me were those who I knew and were close to me. In fact, some of the same people who warned me about what "all men" were like were the ones who took advantage the first chance they got.
The statistics bear out my experience - you are statistically much safer with strange men than with men you "know". You can never "know" who is safe and who isn't, you can only observe behaviors and learn which ones show disregard for other people.
Some books that really helped me because I can't afford therapy:
The Gift of Fear
In Sheep's Clothing
Why Does He Do That? Inside the Mind of Angry and Controlling Men
While I was never in a relationship with anyone abusive or manipulative, reading these books helped me identify people whom I could have become more entangled with (professionally, platonically, romantically) and steered clear and thus avoided the ensuing dumpster fires. They made me much more confident in my ability to set appropriate boundaries and recognize when my boundaries were being violated, and that it was ok for me to call an end to any situation I didn't feel comfortable in. Just the knowledge that I could and would do so made me feel more comfortable.
I don't know if my rambling was in any way helpful, but really, do seek out resources in the form of therapy or self-help books. Getting out of an ingrained and destructive mindset is NOT EASY but it is so WORTH IT.
https://www.amazon.com/Sheeps-Clothing-Understanding-Dealing-Manipulative/dp/1935166301
I know "read a book" is hardly a LPT, but this book could help you with your problem.
There are all kinds of resources available. Each of us finds different resources helpful in one way or another depending on our personalities, our parent's specific tendencies, and to some extent, I think the time that those resource comes into our lives.
Someone earlier mentioned r/raisedbynarcissists This group is extremely helpful. They can help de-code your mom's behavior for you just like we have been doing for you. They have a slightly different flavor/approach and you may find it meets your needs or it doesn't. Just NO MIL tends to deal with things in a more sarcastic or almost gallows humor way. Raised by narcissists tends to be a little more serious in my experience.
So with that being said: Here are some of my current favorites:
One of my favorites is actually for abusive men, but I read it trying to understand my abusive Sister-in-law, and it helped a lot. I keep going back to it to better understand both my family and in-law dynamics. Abuse is abuse, women just tend to do less overt physical abuse. here is a pdf version. Amazon has hard-copies for sale.
Another good book is Wolves in Sheep's Clothing I need to re-read this one as I have just started really understanding the bigger web that my family's abuse lives in.
Luke 17:3 is a good free resource aimed at daughter's of abusive parents. They have had a few articles that my husband has found to hit very close to home in understanding his family. While many of their articles are pretty secular and helpful in general, this website is specifically Christian. Any religion can be twisted to abuse, so depending on what your religious background is or is not, you may find it helpful to locate resources specific to how those teachings can be used to abuse people.
The important thing is to find and utilize the resources that are most helpful to you.
here's a book about "disturbed characters". It helped me understand how some people act and gave some tools to use in defense of their selfishness
It was a process that started when I read the book linked below. You can simultaneously have healthy boundaries and care. You just understand what's your responsibility and what is not, and that it's OK to say "no". You stop taking on other people's responsibilities and burdens, both emotionally and physically. Those around you will be surprised and not happy when they start, for the first time, to hear you say no. (There are nifty ways to say no that soften the blow for example "I'm sorry but that doesn't work for me").
Being without healthy boundaries does not equal "being a good person" it just means you don't have healthy boundaries. For instance, you can't be a good parent without healthy boundaries.
https://www.amazon.ca/Boundaries-When-Take-Control-Your/dp/0310247454
By the way, if you're going to try to develop boundaries you have to also learn the tactics that manipulators use to try to control you because those types will challenge your boundaries constantly. Eg: Guilt tripping or playing the victim. You see a lot of those two in progressive politics. We are now supposed to feel guilty for things that happened hundreds of years ago! LOL. ("Manipulator" is just a fancy word for bully). >>>>https://www.amazon.ca/Sheeps-Clothing-Understanding-Dealing-Manipulative/dp/1935166301
There are lots of boundaries books on the market.
> how have you handled situations where your SO said something hurtful while she was upset?
After she calms down, I ask her what she meant and we talk about it then. Cruel things, said in the heat of passion, can't be taken back. But you can talk them to death. Stay away from declarative denunciations (such as your example of divorced parents) and stick to a recipe like "when you say X, I feel Y". This way it stops being confrontational and lets you process the feelings and focus on what was said/meant.
The book you refer to is pretty bad. Much better books that discuss gendered communication are You Just Don't Understand, That's Not What I Meant and many of the books in Elgin's series of books with Gentle Art of Verbal Self-Defense in the title.
If you think that you are being emotionally/verbally abused, Suzette Haden Elgin has a few other books covering that, like You Can't Say That To Me and How to Disagree Without Being Disagreeable. Additionally, read Emotional Vampires and In Sheep's Clothing.
"and I feel guilty for encouraging her to express her feelings. "
Oh my goodness! Please do not, on any level feel guilty for trying to reach your daughter a healthy and important method of dealing with her feelings, trying to set boundaries, and expressing herself. Don't forget that you, nor your daughter, were in the wrong. In a healthy relationship you'd both have been received on an even level with openness and an effort to understand.
Your anger is totally justified and not misplaced. Something you may want to read/listen to via audio book is https://www.amazon.ca/Sheeps-Clothing-Understanding-Dealing-Manipulative/dp/1935166301/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=sheeps+clothing&qid=1572936407&sr=8-3
It can help you better understand your manipulator and the potential impact they can have on yourself, and your daughter. I personally go the audio book route as I can multi task and listen to it. It's 100% worth it however to invest time in this.
Both you and your daughter (and your mother since she's likely to be subjected to his manipulative activities too) deserve a better and healthier environment.
Wishing you and your daughter all the best! Don't ever let your step fathers actions make you feel like expressing yourself is a bad idea. That's his goal (to avoid the consequences of his actions).
I've learned to view my emotions as a separate thing, apart from my mind. They do what they do. I only get to experience them (the heart mind). It took me a long time to get to this point as I was pretty good at rationalizing whatever I felt (which made me miserable in the long run and I couldn't figure out why I was so miserable). It sounds like you're well on your way to that point though.
As for learning how to strike a balance between asserting yourself vs accepting situations, it's entirely up to you. That's the warriors way. I can only tell you what has helped me. I read Wolf in Sheeps Clothing and it has helped me understand that I have just as much right to go after what I want as everyone else. It's ok for me to try to get what I want/need but only as long as I'm being straight forward and not manipulating or forcing others.
On an unrelated note, I'm going to OmFloatSpa again this Sunday :)
> Please help me understand what I need to change!
Your outlook on the situation. Why is it that the first thing that you jump to is that there's a problem with you? Sure it's conditioned into us from birth, but you should really break that cycle. Tell your jerk brain to stop it already.
> This was after almost two months of him assuring me that everything was fine and that my trust was well placed.
That's a pretty big red flag that you knew something wasn't right. Your instincts knew it. And instead of listening to your instincts, you took him at has word. That's never a good idea.
> This is not the first time that I have met a really nice wonderful guy only to have them turn out to have serious baggage that they want my help with.
Then stop helping. There's a rather large difference between being emotionally supportive and a doormat. The Nice Girl Syndrome is an excellent book that I highly suggest.
> My boyfriend before him cheated on me with his ex and manipulated me emotionally.
That doesn't sound like a "nice and wonderful guy." Sounds like you are lucky to be out of that one. The book In Sheep's Clothing is excellent at explaining the common manipulation techniques so you can see the red flags early.
> The one before that claimed he didn't know how to handle me since I wanted more than just to be some girl he took on dates.
Which is asshole speak for "we want different things out of this relationship", putting the blame onto you and you listening to him. There is nothing wrong with wanting something more and there is nothing wrong with not wanting something more. You two just weren't compatible.
> Finding someone who wants an honest connection with me and won't lie about how he feels has been one of my hardest ongoing struggles.
Sadly, this is a common struggle. Some people believe that the only way to get what they want is to pretend to want to give you what you want. I find it bit easier if you pay attention to actions instead of words. Words are easy, but actions take a lot of effort to lie with.
> How do I know who to trust?
Experience. Learning and being able to spot red flags. Trust is something that is earned not just handed over blindly.
Hell, now it’s my moment. I feel your pain. I’m currently working on this project as I am being treated as dirt. Last time I hung up on the boss b.tch then read this book . Highly recommended! It opened my eyes and I eas able to analyze her tricks and tactics, what she does to me and started setting up the boundaries. Good luck!
Not sure if you will read this but the following has been true for me.
Manipulative people have ways of making you love them that is wholly unhealthy. You won't realise it until you see what a happy relationship is like.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/In-Sheeps-Clothing-Understanding-Manipulative/dp/1935166301
That book is a good start, it's all kind of obvious in hind sight but helps point out things that you may or may not be aware of.
Break it off, refuse to see him again. Read this book. Enjoy your life.
In Sheep's Clothing: Understanding and Dealing with Manipulative People
Sorry to hear what you went through. I've been through something similar. FWIW, this book helped me understand what the hell had happened to me.
At the time, even though I could see it was a problem as it was unfolding, I was a little trapped by circumstance (new baby, sole breadwinner at the time). The book really helped me recover from the fall-out. You, your friend or the folks contemplating legal action might find it helpful.