Reddit reviews Limited Wants, Unlimited Means: A Reader On Hunter-Gatherer Economics And The Environment

Exactly, have you ever read Limited Wants, Unlimited Means? It's a collection of articles about anthropological studies of hunter-gatherer societies.

I had read it a long time ago, it really makes you take a step back and realize that our overall culture has issues in regards to how we perceived resources and our place in the world.

Book list:

Nature and the Human Soul by Bill Plotkin. The author discusses this same theme of The Great Turning. Argues that people in modern western society are pathologically orientated towards adolescent things, and among our main problems is that few of us mature fully, and few of us can ever be considered elders who guide each other towards a wise way of life. He also argues that we historically have developed equally in both nature and culture, but modern people spend their lives solely in culture, and lack understanding of the natural world.

Future Primal by Louis Herman. The author lays out a big picture view of human history and how the solutions for the future we face can be found in the past among primitive cultures. He links his own personal struggles to the planetary struggles we face, and shows that it is true that the personal and planetary are linked.

The Ascent of Humanity by Charles Eisenstein. Lays out huamn history, and "how the illusion of a seperate self has led to our modern crisises".

Sacred Economics by Charles Eisenstein. Looks at how primitive economies differed from our own, and how we can come to a different understanding of economics and wealth in our own society.

The More Beautiful World our Hearts Know is Possible by Charles Eisenstein. Lays out a vision for what the world could be and how we could organize ourselves in a wiser way.

Limited Wants, Unlimited Means an analysis of the economics of hunter-gatherer societies by an actual Economist. Very in depth look at the different foundational beliefs and practices. This is the most scientific and in depth book I've ever come across on this subject.

Eaarth by Bill McKibben. Goes into great detail on the the stark reality of the effects that climate change have already had and will likely have over the next decades and century. Finsihes by making reccommendations for how to make a life on a rough new planet.

Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari. A look at the deep history of our species. This book presents an understanding about what humans are and where we've come from that I think is hard to get anywhere else, really great work.

Blessed Unrest by Paul Hawken. Very similar to the theme of my above post, the author explains how this new movement is much larger than you might think, and could soon become one of the largest cultural movements in all of human history.

Active Hope by Joanna Macy. On "how to deal with the mess we are in without going crazy".

Greening of the Self by Joanna Macy. An exploration into the idea that we are interdependent with the ecology around us.

Natural Capitalism by Paul Hawken and others. A look at how we can start a green industrial revolution.

The Green Collar Economy by Van Jones. Lays out the idea that one solution- work on constructing a sustainable infrastructure- can fix our two biggest problems: the ecological crisis, and the rampant poverty and inequality in our society.

Spiritual Ecology: the cry of the Earth by Thich Nhat Hanh, Joanna Macy, and others. Outlines a spiritual perspective of what is happening to the world, and how we can remedy it, rooted in Buddhist thought.

Changes in the Land by William Cronon. A look at how the ecology of New England has been altered since Europeans first set foot there.

A Sand County Almanac by Aldo Leopold. This is one of the classics of nature writing by a great naturalist. I include it here because I think it fits, and shows how much of this in not new thinking. Leopold talks about his experiences in nature and from living off the land, and lays out his own 'land ethic' for how best to coexist in nature.

The Evolving Self: a psychology for the third millennium by Mihaly Czikszentmihalyi. Explains the authors view of psychology and how to find meaning in the modern world. Talks about playing an active role in the evolutionary processes of life, and linking that up with your own personal evolution.

Braiding Sweetgrass by Robin Wall Kimerer. Brings together scientific understanding, indigenous wisdom, and respect for nature and for plants, in a very poetic book.

The Future of Life by E. O. Wilson. Wilson is one of the greatest biologists of our time, and gave us many of the foundational concepts that we use today, such as popularizing the idea of "biodiversity" and the desire to preserve it. Here he talks about the future of life and the challenges we face in preserving the Earths biodiversity.

Half Earth by E.O. Wilson. Here Wilson lays out his strategy for saving the biodiversity of the Earth and preserving it through the hard times it will face in the future, by devoting fully half of the surface of the Earth to wildlife habitats. This book just came out so you might not be able to order a copy yet.

If you know of any other books or media in this sort of genre feel free to post it.

Here is the mobile version of your link

> It could easily be said that many of those things are along for the ride because of capitalism (especially medical and scientific advances). Does capitalism still play no role in helping increase material quality of life?

So are you suggesting that, without Capitalism, those advances and political/social reforms would not exist? Again, I never suggested Capitalism plays no role, I'm suggesting that Capitalism may not always (or even often) play a central role that could not be played satisfactorily within another framework, given the will.

> Well, the wrong choices maybe but competition gives advantage to those which are the right choices (cough nuclear cough). That advantage those right choices have is called sustainable profitability.

Listen, I get it, I understand the idea of crony Capitalism and how it buffers the status quo from competition. I think that competition can be good, but I will argue that it's simply not a panacea that will solve all of our problems. There are glaring problems created by Capitalism itself (independent of government/cronyist intervention) that absolutely must be solved, at least in part, outside of Capitalism's mechanisms; free market or not.

> Usually its science backed by interest in real world uses that gives us most of these things. Capitalism doesn't exploit the discoveries, it utilizes the discoveries so everyone can benefit from them. You assume it then gains a monopoly. Monopolies are actually very much going agaisnt the principles of free market capitalism (removing chance for competition). Patents aren't permanent and allow for it to be profitable to invest huge amount of resources into trying to make a potential huge discovery (huge amount that wouldn't be worth/able to be invested into making that discovery if it wasn't for the protection of a patent). Those massive discoveries (expensive but nonetheless very important) are what drive progress in society and improve everything.

Capitalism is all about exploitation. Take a given form of capital/resources/labor, combine it with a potentially profitable innovation, and monetary profit is gained. The interests are profit, not the innovation itself. Innovations are only put into use if they can prove their more/less immediate profitability. Profit-motive is a double-edged sword within Capitalism and can serve to crush or deny innovation just as it serves to boost it. Like the law, Capitalism is external from more core fundamentals; in law, not everything that is right is legal and not everything that is legal is right, similarly, not everything that is superior is profitable and not everything that is profitable is superior.

> Exactly, profit is a hugely successful motivator for innovation and ingenuity.

Yes, innovation and ingenuity towards making profits, not necessarily towards visionary, or even technological progress.

> Ha, you really like just making statement and not backing them up with anything (logic, examples, etc.),don't you? People will innovate new things that are desirable (and the most desirable things are those that are beneficial). We already know that causes society and technology to advance (because that's exactly what has happened).

This is magical thinking, the religion of the market, more focusing on the positives, ignoring the negatives.

> Ha, I find it ironic that you complain that people's innovations under capitalism doesn't "necessarily mean that society or technology will advance" all while you praise "tribal/band societies" which often stay the same for millenniums because of a lack of advancement in society and technology. Like you pointed out, the "tribal/band societies" is what "humans lived in for over 90% of our history. 90% of our history! That shows just how little advancement (both in society and technology) happened during that time.
"very efficient lifestyles with less-hours-worked and very efficient use of resources over the long-term" and no innovation, no improvement to society or technology. Just a pure system of stagnation, society sitting where it is forever. Neat.

Tribal/band societies don't "stay the same for milleniums", they do/have change(ed). They are also very socially advanced in the sense of embodying highly sustainable equilibrium with ecology (comparatively) and one another (systemic egalitarianism); all while working less hours than modern workers and seeing their "work" as passion, survival, or play rather than as alienated abstraction from their lives. We have much to (re)learn from them, at least socially speaking. You're speaking in binary again, you say there was NO innovation/change/advancement, but this is simply inaccurate and precisely why I advise you study Anthropology to learn more about how other cultures operate(d). Start with this primer:
https://www.amazon.com/Limited-Wants-Unlimited-Means-Hunter-Gatherer/dp/155963555X

> And innovation moving ahead and is constantly working out ways to solve it.
Don't fear change and wish for the predictableness of the past.

I don't fear change at all, I fear the wrong change and the wrong traditions of the past. Currently, we're holding onto too many of the wrong traditions and failing to embrace the proper changes.

Also, I feel I must make it clear to you that I'm not advocating we eliminate efficiencies in our technologies, but that we do not simply trust in market-driven efficiencies to solve our immensely daunting (and, to some degree, inevitable) and looming collapses on the mid-term horizon. It's going to take MANY (if not EVERY) approach(es) and Capitalism, like Jesus, or space aliens, or implementing the right political reforms, simply will not do the job alone. I caution, always, against technophilia, unscientific optimism, and market worship.

Thank you, I've been looking for a new book to read!

here's a link for the fortunate, supporting bad capitalism