Reddit reviews Medical Apartheid: The Dark History of Medical Experimentation on Black Americans from Colonial Times to the Present
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If you haven’t read the book, Medical Apartheid by Harriet Washington , please do! It’s an excellent and easy to follow chronological explanation of the medical experimentation on Black people 👍🏾
Expecting the world to work in a certain way just because you've never heard of something is a quick way to be wrong all the time. Trust me, yesterday I called bullshit on tattoos interacting with MRI machines. Turns out I was completely wrong, metal based inks will cause skin burn and distort the image for an MRI.
Eugenics was created by racist scientists. The nazis go their best ideas from US eugenics proponents who were coming up with reasons why black people should be slaves. Medical attrociities have been performed on people of color, because "they didn't matter". Science is in no way shape or form objective. It is as flawed as the humans who pursue it. Seriously, read a Howard Zinn book.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/22/eugenics-racism-mainstream-science
https://www.amazon.com/Medical-Apartheid-Experimentation-Americans-Colonial/dp/076791547X
http://newafricanmagazine.com/medical-scandal/
https://www.history.com/news/the-father-of-modern-gynecology-performed-shocking-experiments-on-slaves
Oh shit, so I meant to add these as well, but they're the physical books which explains my forgetfulness. Apologies if not everything seems to relate but my original goal was "how did we get from slavery to where African-Americans are today as still-oppressed people?", which obviously the reason is "because white people have historically shown serious inferiority complexes n' mental issues and have been all-around assholes to everyone else" but truly history is tied into everything so, uh, yeah:
Pox Americana: The Great Smallpox Epidemic of 1775-1782
Medical Apartheid: The Dark History of Medical Experimentation on Black Americans from Colonial Times to the Present
Infections and Inequalities: The Modern Plagues
Not only did they neglect to treat them, they actively prevented them from obtaining treatment once effective treatment for syphilis was made available, blacklisting them from public anti-syphilis campaigns. Also, they never actually told them they had syphilis, instead claiming that they had "bad blood', so none of the men knew that they were at risk of infecting their wives, many of whom then gave birth to syphilitic children. Lots of them died too.
This was pretty typical of how the medical establishment treated black people for a long, long time. Still does today to some extend. I'd recommend Medical Apartheid: The Dark History of Medical Experimentation on Black Americans from Colonial Times to the Present by Harriet A. Washington.
Add in a pretty horrific history of black people being experimented on, infected and maimed without their consent by doctors in the US, I find it really easy to believe that it would be hard for some African-Americans to trust their bodies to medical practitioners in full faith.
A couple of the worst examples: Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment
Black women sterilised without their knowledge - right up to the 1970s
There's a whole book about it - Medical Apartheid: The Dark History of Medical Experimentation on Black Americans from Colonial Times to the Present
"So black males accounting for over 50% of VIOLENT CRIME (murder, asssault etc) are because cops are framing them and letting white people get away with murder? That's a pretty intelligent position to take."
Did I say that? No I did not. You are again intentionally trying to promote a misleading position because you have no real argument. You are trying to make a point that black people do more crime just because they are black. You are ignoring the social constructs, documented patterns of prejudice, and much more. I gave an example relating to drugs to highlight how our justice system systemically targets people of color. There are more white people in this country, therefore more drugs are used and sold by white people. Yet black people are arrested at disproportionate rates for crimes they commit less of. They are sentenced to much tougher fines and jail time. They are in every way targeted. So now, how about you actually focus on the point that I made which is that crime is directly correlated to poverty. You can look up the fbi crime statistics and see that it is just about even across socioeconomic lines regardless of race. So the issue here is poverty and not race and or skin color. So that leads us to your next point
"And please explain this systematic racism to me because I don't know of any law or system in place that promotes racism or oppression of anyone, except for affirmative action. If people don't start taking responsibility for themselves instead of putting the blame on other people nothing is going to change. If a black and white man go for the same job with the same resume the black man is going to get it. Affirmative action is the only form of systematic racism that ACTUALLY exists and it favors colored people."
Since the inception of this country black people have been oppressed. They were denied health care. They were denied an education. They were denied housing. They were denied government benefits. Lets take a look at this across a systemic and historical context. The slaves were freed as a result of the civil war. Those slaves had no education and no prospects for work. Those people were then let out into the country and were then faced with Jim Crow laws. They were again denied equal access to education, denied jobs, denied health care, denied basic goods and services. Are you going to try to tell me that people without an education have equal access? Do not be dumb. Let us then move into WW2. Black men fought for this country. Many came back severely injured. Want to guess what they got? Nothing. White people who fought got benefits of the GI bill. They got schooling. They got medical coverage. They got cash. I implore you to look up generational poverty that is directly related to the GI bill. There is a HUGE amount of wealth that is still in the economy from that bill. Wealth black people were not allowed to have. White people came back and got money and bought houses. They bought land and started a business. Black people with no arms were given nothing and told it was their fault because they were not working hard enough. There was then an influx in multi generational household living as a result of this. The child of the white family could go to school and get a job because their father had health coverage and money and a house. The child of the black father got to stay at home and take care of their disabled father. They did not get to go to school or get a job.
Let's go even further and point out that black people were denied access to loans to buy houses. They were not allowed to marry who they wanted in every state until the 90's. They were literally tortured in "scientific" experiments until the 70's. Now let us go even further into it. After separate but equal was done away with schools began to get funding based on scores of tests. So we have people who were always denied education for many generations. Then when they got it it was in low quality forced ghetto environments that had nowhere near equal status. Then when the law changes we give funding based on score of tests. So we have poverty stricken areas with schools that are just as segregated as before (see the book the new jim crow for more info) that have been systemically provided low levels of access and education and then take away their funding because they are not performing as well. Then they continue to get worse and worse because they still do not get the resources they need. So they of course are stuck in generational poverty which surprise surprise as we have already gone over leads to increased crime.
It has nothing to do with them being black. It has nothing to do with not working hard enough. It is in every way a systemic issue from the founding of our country. This nation is still very much racially divided and it is still oppressing people of color. Your comments more than make that apparent. You very much need to look into generational poverty, look into the many systemic constructs that have existed and continue to exist.
Now to respond to the last part of your racist rant.
"Affirmative action is the only form of systematic racism that ACTUALLY exists and it favors colored people.
Please try to put any sort of explanation into anything you said with some actual facts because you are just spewing talking points that have been proven false time and time again."
Affirmative action is not racist. It is also not effective and does not fix any of the problems I have covered in great detail.
I have provided you with a more than sufficient narrative. If you seriously come away from this and still believe the things that you are saying then that means you are just deluded and do not care about facts.
Now I will post a bunch of links that I am sure you will actively disregard
http://www.socialwatch.org/node/16324
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Americans_and_the_G.I._Bill
http://americanexperience.si.edu/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/After-the-War-Blacks-and-the-GI-Bill.pdf
http://www.apa.org/monitor/2010/11/gi-bill.aspx
https://www.amazon.com/Medical-Apartheid-Experimentation-Americans-Colonial/dp/076791547X
http://newjimcrow.com/
https://eji.org/history-racial-injustice-racialized-poverty
https://www.vox.com/2016/6/6/11852640/cartoon-poor-neighborhoods
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4097310/
http://www.newsweek.com/why-are-black-americans-greater-risk-being-poor-361543
I have not even begun to touch on other things like the war on drugs which is widely documented as being a way to oppress people of color. I have not gone into the way that the media reports and represents people of color. Or any of the dozens of other avenues of systemic oppression directly related to this topic.
So your move. Are you going to change your bigoted views in favor of reality? I hope so. If you actually want to engage in a conversation about this then let me know. If you are just going to respond and say I am wrong (I am not) then do not bother. I will not respond any more past this point as I have already expended a great deal of time responding to you.
KEEP HOPE ALIVE: Doctors Put a Patient in Suspended Animation for the First Time
>“This is cutting-edge science, and if it turns out to be something, it could have a massive impact on the way we treat people,” says Marko Bukur, a trauma surgeon at New York University’s Bellevue Hospital Center who is not affiliated with the trial.
Why I finally placed an order for two books that have been moldering on mah wish list for a decade.
>Intertwined with that is the medical community’s long history of using disadvantaged communities for experimental technology. More than 90 percent of gunshot victims in Baltimore are men and of those, 90 percent are black men, most under the age of 30, according to the Baltimore Sun.
Medical Apartheid and The History of Statistics: The Measurement of Uncertainty before 1900
An older article (2005) from a bill with the same effect.
I discovered this from Harriet Washington's book Medical Apartheid: The Dark History of Medical Experimentation on Black Americans from Colonial Times to the Present. Not exactly a happy read but a pretty thorough treatment of the subject.
Honestly, after reading “Medical Apartheid”, I don’t really blame any black person who doesn’t entirely trust medical institutions. The history there... well, it’s not pretty. Not saying going to your local hospital is going to leave you missing a kidney in a bathtub of ice or anything, but reading that left me giving even Dr Seuss some side eye.
Why does that cat need those gloves, anyways?
> Liar. We talk about it all the time.
Who is we? Are you talking about institutions that educate children and teenagers (all the whilst they're being taught about Britain and the US saving the world from Nazism)? Are we talking about Prime Ministers and Presidents? What you said it just wrong. Now of course Universities talk about it. That's besides the point. But even then, institutionally, Universities have to be in line with the wishes of the government, such as banning boycotts of Israel and enforcing the ideological agendas of the government. Student bodies are granted a degree of independence because that's the culture of academic institutions. Just because there is an event about debating a war or Zionism doesn't mean the mass graves of skeletons in the closet are being addressed as a nation.
> What examples of genocide are there in Iraq by the US?
In total, you have an estimated over 24,865 civilians killed in the first two years and an estimated over 1 million killed till today, thousands killed directly by the US led coalition/ by the US army. In the first two years, 37% of civilians were killed directly by the US led forces. That amount does not happen by accident. If that was done by ISIS and their media was the US media and their President was telling the world God told them to do it, you can damn well bet you would be calling it an Islamist genocide. There are many cases of indiscriminate killing of civilians (eg. drone bombings on hospitals, weddings and funerals), not just in Iraq, by the US and it's all caused and exacerbated by genocidal rhetoric by politicians and the media. Even worse, and why I accuse it of being intentional, is inside the military and by the political/legal establishment, there is a longstanding practice of turning a blind eye to war crimes and giving those soldiers who carry out egregious crimes a slap on the wrist.
Iraq itself as a whole was a genocide. And not just Iraq but the wars and conflicts that have started as a result of it. If someone tells you not to flick the dominos because the rest of them will fall and you do it, you are responsible for those other dominos and if you do not even pick them up, you are even more guilty.
Your propaganda strategy is the same as that of the UK government. That they (to the press) emphasised focusing on individual attacks (and then blaming terrorists) rather than focusing on Iraq holistically: that they went to war on a known lie, killing hundreds of thousands of civilians knowing full well that they would kill so many, knowing full well that they didn’t care for the lives of the innocent, knowing full well that they were serving a selfish political agenda and knowing full well that they were not prioritising the national security and stability of Iraq. The nations that started the war are responsible for the lives of those that have suffered and/or perished, which is why I said you would be calling it genocide if your enemies done that. You are selective in how you treat war crimes. You consider Iraq as a small footnote in history and not the most important and vile crimes of the last several decades.
https://www.iraqbodycount.org/analysis/reference/press-releases/12/
https://www.iraqbodycount.org/analysis/reference/pdf/a_dossier_of_civilian_casualties_2003-2005.pdf
https://www.iraqbodycount.org/analysis/beyond/chilcot2016/
https://www.iraqbodycount.org/
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iraq-deaths-survey-idUSL3048857920080130
> What examples are there of Israel committing genocide?
I rarely talk to people like this on Reddit but that was the most stupid comment I have read (from memory) on Reddit. Not only that, but I am confident from that comment to accuse you of having no regard or care for human life as long as it suits your political ideology.
The current occupation and colonisation of the West Bank and the Golan Heights is genocide. Not only that, but Israeli society and culture itself has forcibly adopted Palestinian culture, labelled it it’s own, all the while claiming Palestinian culture does not exist. That is the definition of genocide. They are eradicating and have been eradicating the Palestinian people since 1948. Also, their actions towards the Palestinians in Gaza are genocide. The state of Israel has already successfully committed a genocide against Palestinians who were living outside of the West Bank and Gaza.
It is also telling that Holocaust survivors themselves and their descendants have also accused Israel of genocide. That in and of itself should tell you something. Just because those who have hijacked the Holocaust (politicians) in politics and make money off of other peoples’ suffering 80 years ago, doesn’t mean they speak for them and doesn’t mean that their own actions are not the same as those who caused that Holocaust. They pretend they care about and are doing it in memory of the Holocaust, all the while being condemned by survivors of the Holocaust.
> Finally, prominent Israeli politicians have publicly called for action against the Palestinian people that unequivocally meets the definition of genocide under the 1948 Convention. For instance, in February 2008, Matan Vilnai, Israel’s deputy defense minister, declared that increasing tensions between the Israelis and Palestinians in the Gaza Strip could bring on themselves what he called a shoah, or holocaust, “The more Qassam [rocket] fire intensifies and the rockets reach a longer range, they will bring upon themselves a bigger shoah because we will use all our might to defend ourselves.”[33]
>
> Israeli Justice Minister Ayelet Shaked posted a statement on Facebook in June 2014 claiming that “the entire Palestinian people is the enemy” and called for the destruction of Palestine, “including its elderly and its women, its cities and its villages, its property and its infrastructure.” Her post also called for the killing of Palestinian mothers who give birth to “little snakes.”[34]
>
> In August 2014, Moshe Feiglin, then-deputy speaker of the Israeli Knesset and member of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s ruling Likud Party, called for the destruction of Palestinian life in Gaza and offered a detailed plan for shipping Palestinians living in Gaza across the world. Specifically, he envisioned a scenario where the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) would find areas on the Sinai border to establish “tent encampments...until relevant emigration destinations are determined.” He further suggested that the IDF would then “exterminate nests of resistance, in the event that any should remain.”[35] He subsequently wrote in an op-ed, “After the IDF completes the ‘softening’ of the targets with its fire-power, the IDF will conquer the entire Gaza, using all the means necessary to minimize any harm to our soldiers, with no other considerations.”[36] He continued, “Gaza is part of our Land and we will remain there forever. Liberation of parts of our land forever is the only thing that justifies endangering our soldiers in battle to capture land. Subsequent to the elimination of terror from Gaza, it will become part of sovereign Israel and will be populated by Jews. This will also serve to ease the housing crisis in Israel. The coastal train line will be extended, as soon as possible, to reach the entire length of Gaza.”
https://ccrjustice.org/genocide-palestinian-people-international-law-and-human-rights-perspective
> Japan has a standing military, its probably the 6th strongest in the world. Japan's military is just as much of a "defense force" as israel's in term of scale. Japan is heavily reliant on the US for its defense treaties.
That was my mistake. From further research, they do have a standing army. I had confused that with the fact that their constitution since WW2 bans them from using an army for offensive purposes and that they are not allowed to use their army for offensive purposes. Thus, their military is technically a self-defence force and the Japanese are very strict on this issue.
And I never said there were not some people who wanted to revive the Japan of old, nor that there is not a popular demand for this.
https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/8264/does-japan-have-the-constitutional-and-legal-right-to-have-its-own-army-or-navy
I should also note that again, you have changed the topic to something irrelevant (Japan’s Empire), when we were talking about US concentration camps and this Reddit post is talking about Uyghur Muslims in East Turkistan.
> I didn't change the topic
You have changed the topic numerous times.
> I simply brought perspective since you are obviously so bias trying to make out Americans as the next Nazis
This is a nice book for you to read to your family.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Medical-Apartheid-Experimentation-Americans-Colonial/dp/076791547X
As I have said before, I am not comparing injustices or genocides. I tend not to do that by principle. And it was you who started talking about Nazi Germany (in terms of comparing it to US concentration camps), not me. As for bias, that is up for you to decide. I try to be as unbiased as I can be and call out wrong when I see it, but I do make moral judgements about what I read and see. And what I read and see about US history is really quite disgusting. Even recent treatment of African and Native Americans, Mexicans, Muslims and others. You really have no argument if you start talking about the sins of an Empire 100 years ago, on the other side of the planet, when someone criticises your country. I don’t see any indications of the crimes of the old being stopped, nor do I see reparations. I see consistent police killings motivated directly by racism.
This will be my last comment to you. I have said what I wanted to say and more. Salaam.