We found 164 Reddit comments about Models: Attract Women Through Honesty. Here are the top ones, ranked by their Reddit score.
Since I don't know the extent of your Autism, I will write as if I'm speaking to a person that is just very inexperienced with dating.
It definitely is different from case to case.
Some people experience it like this though:
well shit man, you're gonna make me cry. I've had a relationship very similar to this and I have to say there is nothing really like it. However as special as you might think this person is; just remember that part of that emotion can also be nostalgia. When it comes to our needs and wants as human beings in relationships. We tend to overlook the negatives for the positives because (depending on how much abuse we are willing to deal with) sometimes those precious moments of mundane life can be just as powerful if not more powerful than the heartbreak dealt in it's absence.
To be honest; ever since I was a kid I has a romanticized view of women. That through trial and error I would meet "the one". Someone who brings the concept of "kindred spirits" to the next level. They get your sense of humour, they don't disappear or mock when you do stupid shit; they understand your aspirations and dreams; but more importantly they deeply understand inner workings of your pathos while bringing their own interesting perspective and pathos along with them. To make a sort of intermingling of emotions; like oil and water shaken up in a bottle intermingling but never a carbon copy of each other; only complimenting each other.
The sad reality however is that this shit doesn't really exist..
Don't get me wrong; you can find close to this if you are lucky which is what you probably found with the girl you are describing. However the older I get the more I realize that the concept of "oneitis" only hurts you in the long run. What turns from a 2 year relationship; might turn into 2 later years of mourning of that prior relationship due to the concept of how "special" or "unique" this girl is. I know this feeling deeply as i've dealt with it a couple of times. The truth is that these girls aren't actually that "unique" or "special".
Of course everyone is unique in their own way and there are no perfect copies of anyone. However when you start to date a large amount of women the "unique" traits; become less "unique" and more similar. People aren't as special as they make themselves out to be. We have similar molds and the girl you thought that was like no other; probably has millions of very similar copies. I know this is making me out to be like a dick; but i wouldn't write this novel if I wasn't trying to pass on some painful knowledge that I received from previous relationships if I didn't relate to your struggle.
This last piece of advice is even going to sound more asshole-ish/nihilistic, but the way I was back in my other relationships (and correct me if i'm wrong about yours because i hate to project incorrect psychological analysis). I would generally put the girl on a pedestal and value what made her happy more than what made me happy. This is what ended all of my relationships in horrible ways. From cheating to 1 week breakups to flat out insulting rejections; a large portion of putting these girls on pedestals was valuing them more than myself. This comes from a position of broken self-esteem. The moment I started having less attatchment to the females in my life and started living for myself. The more girls i started dating and guess what; if you want to ever meet a girl that's similar to the experience you had with your SO. Then you are going to have to play the numbers game and I mean quickly. When i say this I don't mean sleep with as many women as possible, but meet and become on friendly terms with as many people as you possibly can and then select the ones that you connect with the most. This will not only make your dating life way better; but it will change the way you view relationships. You wont be so desperate to latch onto a girl, because you wont see the girl as angelic saint diety goddess. However as a person with their own attributes, idiosyncrasies and flaws. This is one of the most singular things that has improved my life; and since you seem to have shared a similar relationship past with mine I just thought I would share it with you.
Whether you take my advice or not, man
I wish you peace, brother.
Also if you want to dive deeper into why women are more attracted when you are less attatched/emotionally responsive read this:
It's PUA without being a complete narcissistic superficial dick.
Models: Attract Women Through Honesty, by Mark Manson
As a woman and feminist who read that book for funsies, I think it offers a lot of solid advice for men on how to gain confidence and a good mentality, and actual instructions for social interaction with women WITHOUT the ordinary PUA tricks and tropes. Can't be bothered to look up exact quotes right now, but his message is basically that "if you want to get laid, PUA tricks and games could potentially work on some women who are very insecure. If you want to maximize your happiness however, drop that shit and start making yourself and the women you meet truly happy -- which incidentally will also get you laid, and so much happier in the long run."
I understand the 'put my foot down' mentality you're going for, but from what you've written it comes off as coming from a place of insecurity. Yes you have to establish boundaries for what you consider to be acceptable and unacceptable behaviour, but more importantly you have to recognize when you're doing things reactionarily to others or if you're truly acting out of self respect. The author Ayn Rand discusses this concept in Fountainhead,
>"Others dictated his convictions, which he did not hold, but he was satisfied that others believed he held them. Others were his motive power and his prime concern. He didn’t want to be great, but to be thought great. He didn’t want to build, but to be admired as a builder." Fountainhead Chapter IX, Part 4, pp. 605
Are you doing things to show others you have self-respect and boundaries, boundaries which are defined by reactions of others, or do you have self-defined boundaries developed out of self-respect.
I hope you'll take this as constructive criticism rather than an attack on your person.
Ok let's be real for a second. You were fairly invested in her and she didn't reciprocate. She sent some signals of disinterest that you picked up on 'acting distant and not making an effort to message me', then she sent a soft rejection, 'I'm busy' (I'm guessing she didn't propose another time by saying something like 'I'm busy but I can do this Saturday').
Because you were still invested in her, you pushed through the indicators and tried to get her to return investment in you by [demonstrating value] initiating conversation, cracking jokes and being nice. She didn't respond for a few weeks and then you 'put your foot down' and unfriended her. That's not establishing boundaries, that's acting reactionarily out of a place of insecurity.
Let's talk about what you could've done differently, and the underlying mindset behind what you did in comparison.
Ok, lassen wir das wieso, weshalb warum mal außen vor da Du schon deine Entscheidung getroffen hast. Ich habe selber nur eine Erfahrung, aber ich habe viel mit den Damen und Herren aus dem Milieu zu tun gehabt. Lass mich einen Vorschlag zur Güte machen, finde eine Möglichkeit eine Escort zu dir kommen zu lassen, ggf. in die sturmfreie Bude von einer deiner Freunde. Sag am Telefon explizit das Du Jungfrau bist und Du eine Dame haben möchtest die auf so eine Nummer wirklich Bock hat, investiere mehr Geld = mehr Zeit. Weil: Du beschreibst dich als schüchtern und die Situation in einem Bordell ist beim Erstkontakt selbst für gestandene Männer eine eher ungewohnte Situation. Viele sind nervös, gestresst und fühlen sich unwohl. Insgesamt kein guter Rahmen um die notwendige Entspannung zu entwickeln die für guten Sex notwendig ist. Vor allem vor dem Hintergrund das bei dir ein weitere Stressor (Jungfäulichkeit) hinzukommt. Resultiert darin das Du entweder keinen hoch bekommst, oder super schnell kommst. Daher ist auch eine Dame wichtig die sich Zeit für dich nimmt und sich auf deine Situation einlässt. Dinge wie gemeinsames Duschen und Massage schaffen eine entspannte Atmosphäre, danach ausgiebiges Vorspiel und 1-2 Verkehr.
Edit: Da Du noch relativ jung bist, arbeite an dir selbst, es gibt zwei Bücher die ich dir nahelegen kann:
Lass dich nicht von den Rezensionen vom 2 Buch irritieren, es ist in dem Sinne kein "Pickup" Buch. Es geht darum wie man an sich arbeitet um einen selbstsicheren und attraktiven Lebensstil zu entwickeln.
Hi! Woman here. You are definitely not ugly. On the plus side, you aren't fat, full head of hair, well trimmed beard, symmetric face, good teeth - lots of good stuff!
Women aren't as superficial as guys on Reddit think they are - but awkwardness and perceived creepiness can be a real problem. Most of the dudes on Reddit who are super bitter about getting girls don't realize that being super bitter sends bad signals.
Have you seen or read this book?
Mark has great stuff on how to improve your chances of getting girls in a real way.
Read Models. Best money you ever spent.
I'd strongly suggest picking up a copy of Models for your buddy. The book tends to be honest, insightful, and offer lots of actionable advice for building a romantic connection.
There's two components to this.
One, realize if you land in a relationship you won't magically get happy. No one thing in life makes everything better. Life is complex and misery comes from a lot of sources. If you're miserable outside of a relationship there's a good chance you'll be even more miserable in one. Also, you now have less time and money. To really understand misery and getting over I'd recommend Feeling Good and The Subtle Art of Not Giving A Fuck.
The second part, let's say you really do want success with women. Or at least to try it out. You're probably unskilled. That's it. You aren't a loser. You aren't a failure. You're just unskilled. Think about it like this. We all have to work to eat and survive. There are dozens of strategies for job hunting, but I've never heard anyone exclaim, "ah, don't worry about it. Just be confident and you'll land your dream job one day". You think about the type of career you want, think about how to build a presentable resume, create a strategy to get the experience you need. Plenty of steps and strategy. Same with seduction. For this I'd recommend Models and asking around /r/seduction. There's a lot of different strategies out there (a lot of terrible along with good) and figuring out what works for you, but the important thing is just realizing it's a learned skill. It isn't fate woven by gods from the beginning.
I've read most of your comments here and you sound exactly like the guys that get posted about in /r/niceguys. You seem entitled, shallow, and delusional, and you don't have much self awareness. The good news is that you're very young, and a lot of people didn't like who they were in high school and ended up 'blossoming' after high school, whether in college or work.
You need to think about this: if the majority of people, specifically girls, keep treating you and interacting with you a certain way repeatedly, there's got to be a reason for that, and it's most likely not them - it's you. YOU need to change. If you're overweight or too skinny, hit the gym. Not only will you look better, but you'll feel better about yourself, and you seem to need that because you don't sound too confident or sure of yourself.
You also need to be honest with yourself and truly analyze yourself and be vulnerable to identify what your personality traits are, which are good, and which need addressing. The end result of this is that you will be sure of yourself and be accepting of situations and not have a reason to make sad and pathetic posts like this (this is not an insult - but if you don't think this post is pathetic then it stresses my point about confidence and self awareness).
You need to get this book: Models: Attract Women Through Honesty. Even though the title of the book mentions attracting women, the main context is about what I mentioned above: being honest (with others and yourself) and being confident, and the process you need to go through to achieve that.
Lastly, you should save a copy of this post you made somewhere. Read it once every few months. When you finally read it and cringe really really hard after then you're starting to make some progress. Good luck.
This book completely changed my understanding and approach to relationships. Read it following my divorce two years ago, and I've always had exactly as much female interaction in my life as I've wanted since then.
I cannot recommend it enough.
It brings clarity to everything, and you can use it to bang a non-stop train of sloots, or (as the book recommends) find the girl that's perfect for you long term. It's not about pick-up lines or games to trick girls into fucking you. It's about investing in yourself and communicating in a way that lets women see your true self, flaws and all.
It's a really easy read, and you'll find yourself with vision and perspective you never previously had.
Models: Attracting Women Through Honesty
Talk to women. Talk to men. Talk to old women you have no sexual interest in about things that come to mind (yours or theirs). collect cool stories. Pursue hobbies for the sake of doing something awesome (more stories).
Hit the gym - a better body looks better and feels better.
You're taking the wrong lessons out of this book. Yes, you should care about yourself and your values more than others. However, what you're talking about is not caring about others in the slightest. That's insane!
You're going from one extreme to the next. But you will still have the same insecurity at heart.
How do I know? I've been there. I was that nice guy that helped everyone out when they needed and didn't get anything back in return, or refused to take back. Then one day, I had enough. I became a raging dick to everyone, my friends, family, housemates. I'm still suffering from the fallout of what I did, 3 years on.
Change is good. And I'm glad you're taking action to change. But becoming obsessively narcisstic is not the best path. You'll get some of what you want but lose the things you loved.
Focus on yourself first, and then care about those around you next. Don't go full throttle on the former. Check out this, it talks about exactly what you're going through --> Models: Attract Women through Honesty
And here is an exerpt --> The Power in Vulnerability
At the end of the day, do what you want to do. I wish you the best of luck.
edit: Spelling, added 1 sentence.
Here are two resources I've found helpful. Both of these were game changers for me:
No More Mr Nice Guy: The dangers of "Nice Guy Syndrome" (which you're obviously encountering now). It's not about becoming an asshole, it's a systematic approach to helping you set healthy boundaries with others and to start respecting and taking care of yourself.
Models: Attract Women Through Honesty: How to apply the ideas in No More Mr Nice Guy to interactions with women you'd be interested in dating. The "pick up" community can be pretty trashy, but this is about becoming the person you really want to be so that you can attract the kind of person you want to spend time with. Great stuff.
"Nice guys" aren't actually nice, they just think they can trade "being nice" for sex. When that doesn't work out then the "nice guys" turn into unhappy ass-holes, while they watch the women they pine over fall for someone else. I know this, because I started out as a "nice guy" and had a lot of growing up to do to reverse the crazy ideas that media and society put into my head about how love and relationships work.
Here's a good place to start:
Narcissism and Machiavellianism never got me anywhere worthwhile.
I've been reading this book recently, I found it helps with women of course but basic interactions with anyone as well.
It's a great blueprint, it's more about finding and expanding your true Alpha self than using arcane techniques to pass off as an Alpha.
Don't be only invested in you. Be driven, invested in yourself but make a bit of room for someone else. Don't brag but enjoy sharing yourself with someone who deserves it.
Be interested in them but don't let that influence you. Don't be arrogant, respect their opinions but don't ever change who you are for them.
I used to manipulate others, now I'd rather be upfront. "You're trying to get me to do x or y, for your sole benefit? I won't stand for that, goodbye."
Don't dwell and plot in the shadows, expose yourself boldly and stand your ground. You'll save time and effort. And you'll feel relieved and comforted that you've stayed true to yourself and your values.
>Or am I just being afraid to cut another tie and move out to the ocean of fishes (there are plenty of them, right?)?
Read Models by Mark Manson if you haven't already. It will literally change your life.
There is nothing wrong with being friends with this girl. She sounds awesome. But she's not who you want to be sleeping with, and that's okay!
1.) You are putting the opinion of others above your core values. You believe you need to prove yourself to others and have an external locus of control.
2.) Your wife is overweight/unhappy because of the above. She wants a man who acts like a man.
I highly recommend reading a book called Models - Attract Women Through Honesty by Mark Manson
In the book he covers different dishonest methods that men use to attract women for the wrong reasons, including the very same situation you find yourself in. If you want to stop doing this to women, start improving yourself so that you can eventually become the honest man you want to be in a relationship.
It's trash and it promotes social interaction solely as sexual conquest, coupled with a borderline red pill mentality that's also trash. Erik Von Markovik is also walking cringe. It's hard to find anything relatively positive about PUA.
Some people will put Models in the PUA bucket, but it's also an interesting read if you want to detect more bullshit.
Easily the best resource I can recommend from own experience, changed my life:
Models by Mark Manson
Buy it. Read it. Get out there. I agree with the other comments, it starts within. You need to grasp who you are as a person from within and BE different from everyone else. Forget the random attractive girls, you need to explore things that make you who you are and find the demographic of women that would be most compatible. If you like to play video games and occasionally play pick up ultimate the girl in the ugg boots and yoga pants at Starbucks ordering a Venti Double whip chai mocha latte is NOT for you. First step toward finding the right girl is figuring out what YOU like to do and enjoy YOUR own activities first and foremost. A girl should be as interested in you as you are in her, you do you and invite them to SHARE experiences in YOUR life. Not become a PART of it or be put on a PEDESTAL.
If you don't usually have a problem with the content, I think Models by Mark Manson is a decent book on the subject that avoids most of the typical PUA bullshit. This post has the book's main ideas. I think the book is a little too ready to declare universal truths about women, but it still has useful advice.
I do not understand why you are downvoted. You are asking for perspective, no matter how offbeat the direction is.
>what's with all the scathing hate towards nice guys?
a lot of NGs show a simple display of unsuccessful sociopath behavior. The abuse attempt alone is enough to warrant plausibility of the personality of that person. On top of that, other factors like the big media and those mediums taken out of context by the NGs adds a flurry of social chaos. This disaster is solved by letting themselves understand the power of "thinking before speaking", and accepting their own emotions as their own, not blaming emotions on external forces.
>Most of them are genuine human beings who are lead in the wrong direction due to lies perpetuated in this hugz and feelz society through parents, schools, media and such ("masculinity is for chauvinist pigs", "instead of working out, girls like sensitive guys who buy them flowers and treat them like queens etc"). Most of them have grew up bullied or an outcast to the point of self-deprecation and low self-esteem. Instead of lashing out at them, maybe give them legit pointers on how to self-improve or pick up their game beyond banal polite conversations and random compliments.
This can go in many ways. Most of them ended up taking the pill, while others discover the negative power of who they are emotionally and mentally. Other ways fall between these two extremes, and usually people who take the pill fall out of their own accord and go completely out-of-society to the rest of the world. Anecdotally.
In my opinion I do not agree with the above because this furthers the narrative even harder than before (to the point of performing mental gymastics). I would suggest trying the filter method mentioned in a book like this or understand letting go of the things that you are hampered with like this.
>I feel most of it is due to society's underlying repulsion towards weak men who fit the betamale mold. I don't think society is quite ready (nor will ever be) for men showing emotion or vulnerability. You can't demonise those who reject you but we as humans are allowed to feel upset or dejected if one doesn't feel loved or worthy for intimacy or companionship. The whole "nobody owes you shit" may be true but it's completely nihilistic without offering some sort of solution to address the problem rather than sweeping it under the carpet.
There is a solution to this problem, and the solution does not involve setting people into boxes. the solution is looking at the differences between positive masculinity and toxic masculinity and gauge what your life is as a whole: personality, personal worth, and what you actually persevere in your hobbies.
A great subreddit that gives more discussion on this topic is /r/MensLib.
I detest games in dating... but there are definite pitfalls to spilling it all off the bat. I've been in a casual relationship where we each went full transparency upon first meeting. It worked to an extent, but it also destroys any semblance of mystery. Part of dating is getting to know the other person and them getting to know you. Trust and love are built through experience and time together.
A month or two ago, someone posted something about discovering the INFJ strength in dating... which was being mysterious. I can't remember who, but it resonated with me. He said he'd been finding much more dating success by slowly revealing who he was and how he felt. Not so much manipulating as just not going full glom off the bat, if he likes someone.
Mark Manson's book, Models, makes some very good points and introduces some solid techniques for dating with authenticity, too. It's geared toward men, but I think much of the information is applicable to anyone. The first 15% of the book is pretty self-promotey, and there are some misogynistic generalizations here and there, but it was worth my time. Much of it is about building confidence just by being yourself and taking a zen - like approach of being grateful for any response to a declaration of interest. I'm into you! You're into me? Cool, let's see where it goes. Not into me? Cool, thanks for not letting me waste my time chasing you. I feel like it's a healthy version of playing it cool, without lying or repressing yourself.
I used to be terrible with women. Constantly friendzoned. Got cheated on by a girlfriend that I had no idea how I got.
Then I found some "pickup" stuff online that got me lucky two times in a row following a script... and then nothing. So I studied more online stuff. I was going to be the best pickup artist ever, I was going to show them all! I'd approach women to impress my friends. Got a stripper to go out for coffee(ended badly, I was totally over my head). All sorts of showy stuff.
Luckily I found some charisma based pickup stuff that was essentially just presenting yourself in the correct manner, and not be afraid to escalate sexually.
One of the techniques was a type of disqualification where if anybody said anything negative you agree and amplify. And if they say something positive, be genuinely thankful, but say something a bit humbling to keep yourself human.
Disqualification was great for my interactions with others, but weirdly, it was the best thing for me. It didn't happen overnight, but it did happen. I started not to place too much importance in what others thought of me. Not in a narcissistic way, but in a freeing way. I came to realize that I didn't need to impress anybody by showing off or becoming a pickup superstar. I became decent at dating and could spend my energy in other areas of my life.
The reason I'm telling you this is because "pickup" advice can help you, but you need to be careful. As Grayflcn said, becareful over in Seddit. There are some genuine people there, but there are also some people trying to impress people with BS, or show offy, creepy things. Try to keep your filters set appropriately.
I've been in a relationship for a while, but trying to help some friends I've found some things I think are good resources in this area coming from the right place...
Hello 29 year old version of me, from the 36 year old version of me. Since you're a reader of actual books, this should be pretty easy.
I also didn't like Mark Manson's TSAONGAF, but his previous book, Models: How to attract women through honesty, was a life changer. I mean, I'm still trying to implement the principles into my life but it already started to change my life for the better. It's not just for the single guys btw, any man who wants to be attractive should read this book.
I suggest reading Mark Manson's The Subtle Art Of Not Giving A Fuck & Models: Attract Women Through Honesty.
This is the golden question, right?
Fake it 'til you make it yields false confidence. Although you'll still be exhibiting the traits of a confident male, you're true self will eventually show itself. It's not sustainable, and at times demeaning towards women.
Now, true confidence, as you seem to hint at here comes from being less invested in others as you are in your perception of yourself** (taken from Mark Manson's book Models - you should absolutely positively read this book). To reach this state, you obviously need to invest in yourself. Investing in yourself means that you have the following nailed down in your life:
Not really, I don't owe you anything to explain, also there are too many things to cover. I suggest reading No More Mr Nice Guy and also Model.
Gonna jump in here just because as an asian dude I know this is a touchy subject that non-asians might not understand. It sounds like you don't have an "asian" problem, just a social awareness problem.
A couple of books I think you can benefit from reading:
Mate by Tucker Max and Geoffery Miller
Models by Mark Manson
No More Mr. Nice Guy by Robert Glover
I also recommend listening to "The Mating Grounds Podcast" which was the precursor to the Mate book.
You have a lot of mindsets you have to unpack and work on. These books (and podcast), I guarantee you will transform your life, not just your dating life.
Best of luck
I am reading this books called models: attracting women through honesty. It has been extremely helpful for me.
>Models is the first men's dating book ever written on seduction as a purely emotional process rather than a logical one, a process of connecting with women rather than impressing them, a process of self-expression rather than manipulation. It's the most mature and honest guide on how a man can attract women without faking behavior, without lying and without emulating others. A game-changer.
It's a shitty thing to do and you won't get an honest answer so there's really no point.
Generally similar reasons apply for being rejected on dates, if it's something that really bothers you (or just interests you) theres plenty of useful material out there that can put things into context.
/u/CoachToughLove probably has a a lot to say on this.
Try this book:
I would recomended you read Models by Mark Manson. It's a great book that takes an analytical approach on improving yourself and improving your self confidence to attract high caliber women that interest you through honesty. It is much better then over PUA books that focus on pick up lines and being fake. It really helped me a lot.
Models: Attract Women Through Honesty https://www.amazon.com/dp/1463750358/ref=cm_sw_r_other_awd_ou.8wbM9K207W
Edit: He also dedicates a chapter in the book to discussing how to choose locations to meet women that fit what you are looking for, it sounds like going out to clubs probably is not the place to go if you are frustrated by materialsim.
I read a book awhile back that you might want to see if you would be interested in called Models: Attract Women Through Honesty by Mark Manson. Think it would help yah.
Mark Manson is pretty great. He started out as a pickup artist, but quickly realized how awful and insincere most of that community is. He then wrote "Models," which is one of the best books I've ever read on being open and honest with yourself and others. It really transcended its roots, which is why he eventually distanced himself from the community and started his blog. He, along with Brene Brown, really turned my life around when I was in a dark place.
[The Manual] (https://www.amazon.com/Manual-What-Women-Want-Give/dp/1456494554) and [Models] (https://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1467218700&amp;sr=1-1&amp;keywords=models) are way better. The Manual is my bible. Top inner game!
Check this book out:
Dude, you are incredibly lucky that she is willing to tell you this. If you want a quick run down of what she's asking for, try these links:
When you parse out what they're describing... None of this is actually about being "Bad" or "mean" to people. It's about having self confidence and standing up for yourself.
Here are some book recommendations:
No more Mr Nice Guy: https://www.amazon.com/No-More-Mr-Nice-Guy/dp/0762415339
Models: Attract women through honesty: https://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358
What women want when they test men:
The last one is "Sex God Method" by Daniel Rose. You have to pirate it, because on amazon it goes for $750. https://www.amazon.com/Sex-God-Method-Daniel-Rose/dp/0557036488
Of all the books, Sex God Method is life changing if you're willing to apply it. This book completely changed my life.
It's not that she wants you to literally be mean, she wants you to stand up to her and stand up for yourself.
She is doing you SUCH a favor by being so honest and up front with you. Seriously. Many guys in your situation just get cheated on, or dumped, or both. Yes, you read that right.
for women specifically
here is a link bomb directly related to what you asked
and my favorite of MM
here are some resources for your perusing
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0762415339/ No More Mr Nice Guy
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0996487115/ New Game +
i found these websites the most useful
(i know it looks like i'm advertising him or something but this seems best targeted for what i assume you're looking for. step by step guides, he instructs you how to go outside and talk to people etc...)
i personally have yet to take it, but i've read so many of his articles, read his HTNGAF book and trust him as as source, and will take his courses as a self therapy for SA
Mark Manson offers courses for social related stuff, including the romantic kind, i found at the bottom he offers a $4 USD monthly subscription for all of them instead of buying them individually (which is probably the option i'm going to choose)
Models: Attract Women Through Honesty by Mark Manson
You can start by reading this article he wrote for free: Fuck Yes Or No
But, ultimately, no book is as good as plain old personal experience. You need to get out there and just try. Learn, through trial and error, what works best for you and what doesn't.
Become a honey badger. Being a nice guy sucks, being a good man is fucking awesome. Be clear about your intentions, make sure you groom well, that you have the type of life you want, all of that.
Read and internalize these books:
I want to recommend this book to you. It's called Models: Attracting Women through Honesty
I didn't think a book could really help me with women, but this is so well written, it will open your mind up. Read the first chapter, which is free somewhere. I read it on the kindle app that lets you sample the beginning of a book. You will end up buying it and it will absolutely help you.
I know that you might feel undateable, and that’s understandable. But, realistically, there are tons of women out there who’d love to date you. I suggest this book. It’s called “Models: Attract Women Through Honesty.” You’re not deformed or anything; you haven’t been on a date in almost 2 years probably because you need to change your strategy. Which is easily done.
you win 100 percent of the shots you dont take right
it's weird, but going up to a group of girls and chatting to them shows a lot of balls, granted you know how to hold a conversation.
check out this book models if you haven't already, might be helpful
The Game isn't a good place to start, it's more history and what happened than guidance.
Models by Mark Manson is probably the best place to start.
Start here: https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf
That´s how I did it.
Much of my research has been focused on men who grew up under an emotionally abusive, narcissistic female parent ("Nparent"). Boys with high levels of intelligence who grow up under these conditions develop defense mechanisms to avoid the irrational, and often unpredictable, wrath of their Nparent.
One of these defense mechanisms is a highly developed sense of empathy, or in other words "the ability to understand and share the feelings of others." Children from abusive homes often develop higher-than-normal levels of awareness for other people's emotions as a survival response; because while growing up, a child's well-being was determined by the emotional state of the Nparent, whose mood and behavior could radically and unpredictably shift without warning or provocation. So, these children learn how to observe their Nparent and be aware of their every-changing emotional state at all times.
There are a couple consequences of this. First, many of these children learn how to interact with other people in a disarming way. These sort of children do very well in professional sales environments because they have an advanced ability to "read" people.
Which leads me to a second consequence: primarily being in a state of reaction to other people's actions. If life were a game of chess, you would be black, always reacting to white's first move. Again, as a defense mechanism, children in abusive homes learn strategies to disarm or satisfy their Nparent. Since the Nparent is always on the offensive and the child is always on defense, everything the child is trained to do is counter, repel, or otherwise disarm the actions of others. And these children can become very well adept at developing strategies to anticipate the needs of others.
So while the bulk of these boys' training is as a reaction to the wants and needs of others, these boys are not taught how to be in charge, how to identify and exert their own wants and needs in a relationship in a healthy way. In every relationship, there is a leader and there is a follower. Your relationship training growing up has always been to be reactionary, to be a damn good follower because your survival depended on it.
Now, you are dating, and women are looking for a leader in the relationship. The problem is that you don't have any training on how to be a leader in relationships. Like a fish in water, your whole world growing up has been focused on being the best survivor you can be, and that has meant being the best listener, the best reactor, the best follower you can be because you never knew what it meant to be in control.
Shifting gears into being on the opposite side of that fence, by being the person whose Will is exerted instead of being the person upon whom someone else's Will is exerted, is difficult. It's like riding a bike for the first time: no matter how many books you read on riding a bike, you're still going to fall the first few times. Becoming comfortable as a leader in a relationship is learning experience. It takes time to explore what that means for you and what that means to the women who follow you.
Diving deeper, if you grew up in this sort of environment, you know what it means to be taken advantage of; you've seen what it means for a person to manipulate some unsuspecting individual into fulfilling the manipulator's desires. Like a used-car salesman, you may view the whole experience of "using your magic" to get other people to do what you want as coercive, as something negative. You feel bad because maybe you feel like you're taking advantage of these women; and knowing how badly it sucks to be taken advantage of, you feel uncomfortable escalating things because of it. You haven't necessarily been so accommodating to others because you wanted to, you've done it as a means of survival, because you've had to in order to avoid punishment. You can't fathom or haven't considered the reality that there are people out there who genuinely desire to support others, not out of a sense of avoiding pain but because they truly feel a desire to support the fulfillment of someone else's Will.
If any of this applies to you, then here's my advice: first, recognize that you've been playing the part of the follower in relationships. Your approach has been reactionary, to anticipate the needs of others in order to satisfy those needs, as you feel a good partner should. The problem with this approach is that it requires the other person to have definitive needs. If they don't have needs that can be defined, then you won't know what to do; and nothing you do will satisfy them.
This might explain some issues you've had with LTRs in the past. There's the ongoing joke that if you ask a woman "what would you like to have for dinner?," her response is ____. You already know the stereotypical response (it's "I don't know", if you didn't already guess). While publicly men will lament about female indecisiveness, TRP explains that women aren't interested in making the decision about dinner because they've already made the only decision that matters: they chose you. Now, it's your job to decide what's for dinner; it's your responsibility to figure out what you both are doing tonight; she depends on you to take the lead. And since she's waiting for you to exert your Will, she often doesn't have definitive wants to satisfy. This may very well be the reason why you kept expecting insight from previous LTRs on what you should be doing for them, all the while they were becoming frustrated with you because you were not exhibiting the very same indicators that you sought from her.
Second, you need to learn how to be a leader in relationships, learn how to be in control. There are strong, positive leaders and there are shitty, negative leaders. Realize that exerting your Will in a relationship is not inherently bad thing. There are ways to do it positively. Women seek this strong leadership in relationships with a man. Just like you presently react to someone else to satisfy their needs, women desire to do that exact thing for you. So if you're not exerting your Will in a relationship, then your relationship with her will invariably fall apart.
So get over feeling bad about exerting your Will. Realize that a huge percentage of women desire to support the Will of a strong man. This desire is so ingrained that a surprising quantity of women admit to sexually fantasizing about being raped. This psychology tells us that even under what we might consider to be the most severe of circumstances (being raped), a situation that you would overwhelmingly consider to be "bad," many women still generally sexually fantasize about being "taken" and satisfying a man's Will by his force. By being a man who exerts his Will, you are quite actually giving women what they truly seek: a man who knows what he wants and ACTS on it. So in your chess game with women, be the white piece and make the first move; let them react to you, your desires, your Will. They want you to take charge, and you're hurting yourself and disappointing them when you don't.
Final thoughts, pick up copies of these two books: (1) "No More Mr Nice Guy" by Dr. Robert Glover, and (2) "Models" by Mark Manson. First read No More Mr Nice Guy.
I'm just a stranger passing by and what I say may mean something, but at the worst, it'll mean nothing, so no harm done
I can empathize with what you are going through to a certain point as I've dealt with similar issues. If I may offer some bits of thought that I've picked up over my life:
What made me really optimistic reading this was this little part you put in: "I've since stopped smoking, started going to bed before 3 am every night, and cut down on my drinking significantly. I've made some progress over the last few months: I'm finally leaving for school, I volunteered to help disabled people exercise throughout this summer (which was extremely daunting due to my social anxiety), and I'm starting to get back in shape."
You seem to have started making attempts to make yourself feel better and that is great, since it is usually the first step to getting happier. but as you continue on your journey just remember that change is one of the hardest things that we as humans can do and it takes time to see results so don't get to down if things don't get better quickly, just keep grinding.
Secondly, something I always struggled with was comparing myself to other people, however over time I've come to realize that comparing yourself to others, is one of the most self destructive behaviors a person can have. we are all on a different schedule with our lives, you mentioned that you feel bad that your hometown friends have gone out to see the world while you stayed and "withered" away at home. the thing is, what they are doing, does not impact your life. Focus on you and your needs and your goals, it doesn't matter what everyone else is doing as long as your striving for something that really means to you.
Now when it comes to interacting with people, I have to fight the same battle, Its my worst nightmare to have to meet new people or go to social events. however over time I've gotten better, and If you are a book person i would recommend two books:
How to make friends and influence people - Dale Carnegie
Its a great resource on human psychology and offers great advice on how to deal with people and situations while also offering a great guideline on how to have positive interactions with people
The Second would be "Models" - Mark Manson
While its technically a dating advice book, its far more than that. this book goes in depth about what it means to be attractive and have a fulfilling life, its a wonderful motivational book as it goes to a much deeper level then most. (It is absolutely not your typical dating advice book where it feeds you lines and teaches mannerisms, it is so much more than that its just really down to earth and honest)
The thing is, new adventures are scary, change is scary, and moving to a different place while exciting can bring forth feelings of insecurity. But in the end, we can either let those feelings decide who we are or we can take a stand against them and actively strive to improve ourselves.
You are doing great and I want you to know that Whatever you choose to do I'm over here rooting for you, you got this. sending positive vibes your way my friend :)
You have to love yourself before anyone else can love you. I understand this isn't the answer you want to hear but it's true. I used to be in your shoes. You have to understand that yes support is great, but ultimately you have to stand on your own feet to be firstly healthy (no one can fight your depression for you) and secondly to be attractive.
I'll leave you a few links that have helped me come out of my hell hole.
Especially #2. Lastly, he wrote a book that I've re-read a bunch of times that is excellent and down to earth dating advice. He's honest and isn't going to sell you a bunch of this "I need to be super macho to get dates" crap. It's all a media hype. Women just want you to be confident, but in order to do that you have to treat your depression and just enjoy life which will take months, not going to lie.
Enjoy man, you have lots of work to do. consider this the first day of the rest of your life.
Models: Attract Women Through Honesty
Not because it revealed some great hidden secret or changed the way I thought about women or how the world works. It validated what I had been thinking for some time.
off the top of my head:
Meditations, with The Inner Citadel as a reader
Letters from a Stoic
A Guide to the Good Life by Irvine
Do The Work by Pressfield as well as The War of Art by Pressfield
Managing Oneself by Ducker
Man's Search for Meaning by Frankl
What Predicts Divorce by Gottman
Models by Manson seems to be popular on reddit
So Good They Can't Ignore You by Newport, as well
I'm currently reading Triumphs of Experience by Vaillant and find it insightful.
You just asked how to interact with an attractive woman. That's a very broad question. Read the side bar, read Models by Mark Manson, read The Rational Male.
If I had to summarize seduction in one phrase: be outcome independent, but be interested.
>Video games, junk food and porn. But no attempt at ever forming a romance, no dating, no online dating.
You've developed a very nasty habit, and you need to rewire your brain. This can be done, but you'll need some will power to overcome this. James Clear's book, Atomic Habits does a good job explains how habits form and how you can change them.
If you're watching porn, stop it right now - it's ruining your life.
> The Iron is the best antidepressant I have ever found. There is no better way to fight weakness than with strength. Once the mind and body have been awakened to their true potential, it’s impossible to turn back.
The Iron and the Soul
First thing is first, how often are you going to the gym? You can't have a healthy mind if you don't have a healthy body. How are you training? Are you doing 5X5? Are you on 5-3-1? Start learning the basic lifts, I recommend you start with 5X5 for one month to get the techniques down, then move on to something like 5-3-1 or Grey Skulls, the r/fitness wiki is a gold mine of information. Learning how to do this properly (with the right diet) will change your life. Try the Boring But Big 3-Month Challenge.
We're sexual beings, it's important for our physical and mental well being to have a healthy sex life. If you're terrified of talking to women then you might need to start with the basics, look up this or this. Cheesy pick up techniques don't work, so don't waste any time or money on learning them. The key here is to know yourself, what you want and be honest (most people don't know what they want).
Loneliness has the same impact on mortality as smoking 15 cigarettes a day, making it even more dangerous than obesity
How often do you socialize with friends and peers? Do you have someone to talk to, to air your problems to, to bounce ideas off? We're social creatures and having a good social group is part of a healthy lifestyle.
Cobra Kai - ...the method of fighting your pansy ass generation desperately needs.
Tyler Durden on Life
The Three Things We All Need for a Happy Life: Someone to love. Something to do. Something to look forward to.
I don't really know how I could change your mind honestly, because it's just my own personal experience, but I'll give it a go.
I am your height, I am slightly younger than you, 19. I grew up homeschooled, so I didn't have my first kiss till I was 18, I held my first hand at 18 too lmao, safe to say I just didn't interact with girls basically my whole adolescences. Lost my virginity at 19 to my current girlfriend.
So to summarize I am a short homeschooled kid, who has an average face and a skinny fat build, I have literally every excuse to be like you.
But I'm not, I've now had two girlfriends since I started actually trying to date in 2018, and my current girlfriend without a shadow of a doubt is extremely sexually attracted to me. Again, can't prove it to you, but you'll have to trust me.
Honestly I firmly believe most women don't care about height as much as people on the internet would have you believe.
If you're 5'11" and up, your height is an attractive feature, just like a nice face or big muscles. If you're 5'9"-5'7", your height might affect you in your dealings with other men, but I don't give a fuck about other men, to women, your height won't really play a role, except you will be taller than most women, which is attractive. and finally, our height, 5'6"-5'5", our height is for some people, an unattractive feature, but not everyone, and, the best part, we're still taller than most women, at least in america where average female height is 5'4", which again, is what most women care about, their partner being taller or as tall as them. Not to say it's impossible or even hard to date a women who is taller than you, just that many women do find it attractive if their partner is taller than them.
But again, I suppose this is all just based off my own experiences, I've never been turned down for my height, but, to be fair, I am a naturally social and charismatic person, this is an advantage that I was given, as a short guy you do in some ways have to make up for it, and work a bit harder, that's just how it is, fair? no, reality? yes.
And to my final point, I don't know shit, I'm 19, so take my advice with a grain of salt, but oh yeah, you don't know shit either you're TWENTY TWO, do you know how young that is? We're basically still kids man, in the grand scheme of things either of us trying to say anything about life with any extreme degree of certainty like "I've tried everything I could to get a girlfriend, from grooming to lifting weights to getting hobbies" is folly.
Live life and all that shit, we only get one, legit everyone in your ancestral line somehow fucked a girl, I highly doubt you'll be the end of it.
I highly recommend Models, and The subtitle art of not giving a fuck, both are fantastic and great books to read when you don't know what to do with yourself.
Good luck buddy, hope this was at least somewhat helpful.
> I should probably hit the gym that would make me more attractive.
Sorry, but that's how clueless virgins think.
Read this book to learn a ton about what actually makes men attractive and how to improve yourself: https://smile.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358/
If you have a strong sense of self and really confident, then start with Models, otherwise read No More Mr Nice Guy then Models. After that start going out and applying what you learn. Watch some pickup videos (RSD, Willy Beck)...etc. Also that subreddit is really a mine of gold, learn from it as much as you can. Find dudes you can pickup and do that shit with sometimes, It's a lot easier and more fun actually. My point is: Start your journey and let yourself evolve overtime (no need to rush) and don't take it seriously. One important thing to say is that: Applying is really important and don't slip into the intellectual circle like me of taking videos/books so much and not doing anything. Cause if you do that, overtime you will find that a one book really has tons of information and applying it gonna take so much. So what's the need of accumulating these resources. And be careful of the marketing techniques of these products, they are deceitful sometimes. Peace.
Something simple is a great way to test the waters and get to know someone without too much pressure.
I'd just ask her after class or sometime that's easy. Something as simple as "hey want to grab coffee sometime?" or "I enjoy talking with you, want to meet up sometime out of school?"
The hardest part for me was letting the other person know I was interested in more than just friendship. I held myself back due to self-doubt and anxiety for years.
I read this book (https://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358) which sounds super cheesy, but worked.
Give this a read. Basically, the theme is to constantly be investing in yourself. There is no short answer, unfortunately.
Don't do PuA. It can work but will lead you down a bad and toxic path, and invite toxic partners. I recently read a book by Mark Manson, called "Models Attract Women through Honesty". Great book, the only dating book you'll ever need.
I’d recommend reading Models by Mark Mason. It’s not pick up tricks, but solid life advice. Also Mark Mason’s Podcast is great.
Those hobbies are terrible for meeting/dating women.
How long have you been single? Are you just trying to fill a void?
Work on yourself, try out new hobbies: yoga, fitness, meetups.
Make some woman friends first, people you're not attracted to perse. Expand your social circle, be a fun guy.
Read No More Mr. Nice Guy and Models. See this video on how to flirt.
I saw this video over a year ago. I am exactly in the same boat as in never having a gf or sex.
I have been on /r/nofap and /r/seduction for that time and I have tired out with both communities. Especially now that I have been reading Models: Attracting Women through Honesty.
I have been looking at all this PUA junk and other stuff but that book right there cuts through the bullshit and gets to the point. I would go into it more, but I'm on my phone. I highly recommend it.
I am biased, but my Above The Game guide has a pretty different approach from The Game. If you're looking for a book, check out Models by Mark Manson.
You might like this
It's all about being introspective. Confronting the actual issues within yourself that are holding you back. Good perspective to even just know about, even if it doesn't end up being your thing.
And hey, all that shit you've seen so far has reaffirmed you don't want to waste your time on pointless bullshit. Everything has a purpose, even if it's totally not what those douches wanted it to be lol
Models by Mark Manson
A great book on learning how to improve yourself to be attractive to yourself and others. It's geared towards men of course but I would recommend to ladies as well.
Manuscript Found in Accra by
A friend let me borrow this book last week and it's incredible. This book may hold the secrets of life. So much wisdom covers the pages of this book.
A lack of self-confidence with women is simply (in my opinion) your brain's way of saying "We don't have enough skill/experience/education to do [task]" It's a fear that is innately designed to prevent you from trying to do something that is likely to end in defeat.
Note that I say "self-confidence with women".
You have plenty of confidence to :
> build a house, rebuild my car, all that sort of stuff
How did you get that confidence to do all those other things? Someone taught them to you, or you read story that someone wrote down. Or through guesswork, and trial and error.
> but when it come to people I'm a wreck.
I assume you have gone to Amazon and done some searching. Have you discovered how many books they have? Too many, frankly. But there are books on how to master small talk, be good with women, be good with business meetings, be more confident, flirt, understand body language, and on and on.
If you were to spend perhaps 12 total hours reading a book on dating, that would probably be 12 hours more knowledge than you have now - and won't be able to get from therapists (as quickly and as focused), or people on the Internet.
I'll suggest you check out Models, download Double Your Dating (and anything else by David DeAngelo - he really helped my self confidence), and No More Mr Nice Guy as a few starter books.
I think you will find that if you take the time to actually learn about women, your confidence will improve.
Now, take heed - when you read these books, you will probably say to yourself "This won't work. This doesn't make any sense." And you are right. With your current lack of skills and lack of experience, everything you read will be foreign. However, if you read the books, the wait about 4 weeks while you go out and socialize, and then re-read the books a second time, you will suddenly see concepts that are "between the lines" coming through.
So, go do a little reading. Teach yourself a new skill. And then, most importantly, get out there and try it. What's the point on reading the shop manual on a car if you're not going to try to work on it? You won't get any experience until you go practice, make mistakes, read the manual again, and then repeat it until you get it right.
You seem like you made a lot of the right steps, man. It sucks about the best friend thing. I've been there too. Doing stuff all the time like picking up hobbies or exploring your state would be great ways to keep your mind off of things. I'm really glad you hit the gym. The best thing you can be doing is working on yourself right now. Don't let anyone tell you how long you need to get over it either. You'll know when you are and when it's time to let go. If you care for reading at all then definitely pick up a few books. Listening to podcasts is another really great thing for getting over the loss. I liked listening to things like Snap Judgment and This American Life. It just helped to hear stories of other people lives. Hearing their struggles and successes, it just helps.
As for dating someone else -http://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358
This book did wonders for me. This book is not about how to get laid ten times a week or whatever. It's more about how to be yourself and be okay with that. You'll get through the depression, man. You've learned a lot from this experience and you'll come out the other side stronger. You know more now about how you want to love and be loved, how you think you ought to be as a friend or a lover.
Good luck, man.
This book is all you need. Models: Attract Women Through Honesty
Check out the book Models by Mark Manson. He discusses this in depth.
>I don't understand the meaning of a casual relationship
Is that what she offered you? If so, your reaction to this episode shows that you are not cut out for one, at least with someone to whom you are physically and mentally attracted.
>My excitement looks like clingyness and I always fuck up potential relationships.
Have you read Models yet?
RE: your title
Dude, you've spent most of your life single. Receiving 'good morning' and 'goodnight' texts was a temporary novelty. You can do fine without them. For most guys, 'single' is the default mode - [re]learn to thrive in it.
I feel the need to mention this as I haven't seen anyone else say it
Models by Mark Manson is an excellent read
It's a two-fold book - it's both a male dating advice book as well as a self-improvement book. The beauty of the book is rather than taking an approach similar to The Game which is more about attraction tactics and methods, Models is all about attracting women through self improvement.
You are much more normal than you think, and your problem--no matter how embarassing--is quite common. Here is a story to illustrate what I'm talking about. If you don't have time to read the whole story, here is a good quote from it:
>To be blunt, it fucking sucks that everyone seems to be having sex but me. The idea that so many people just don’t care about it–and yet nobody seems to want to do it with me–that really hurts. As a general idea, I think it’s fine. I don’t see any moral problem with it. I think if I could, I’d have casual sex as much as possible. I think people need to loosen up about judging others’ sexual habits.
OK, well...a few things. Most men struggle a great deal finding a partner willing to have sex with them. I am married (and very lucky in this respect), but I have a few male friends in their late thirties who are single. One of them last had sex two years ago. The other, as far as I know, hasn't found anyone who will sleep with him since he broke up with his girlfriend over three years ago. Guys who are tall, good-looking, charming, or in the vicinty of women who aren't picky may well have as much sex as you think they are having. But they probably aren't.
So I want to give you two pieces of advice. The first is that you will have sex by pursuing the kinds of relationships that lead to sex. That sounds self-evident, but ask yourself if you are doing that in earnest. If you are pursuing a woman who has made it clear that she isn't interested in physical intimacy, for example, then acknowledge this and set your sights elsewhere. Don't be afraid to commicate sexual intetest, either. Here is an excellent dating advice book that tells you how to do this.
Second, just because you are unable to find a willing parnter at the moment, that does not mean that you cannot have sexual feelings or act on them. It's a bit of an open secret, but the platform I am using to communicate to ypu right now is one of the best places to find amateur pornography online. If you are not opposed to using pornography, then I encourage you to take advantage of this fact. Learning how to soothe yourself sexually in the absence of a parnter is one of the most important skills you need to develop to make it as a guy today, so please consider this advice and confront any feelings of guilt or shame that it might inspire.
Lastly, be patient with yourself. Set goals that aren't simply experiencing sex and work toward them. Enjoy yourself as you do. You are wired for pleasure, as well as disappointment. Which one you experience more of, believe it or not, has much more to do with the decisions that you make more than the judgments that other people make about you. Best of luck. I know this sounds trite, but have fun. I'm saying it because I mean it.
As far as anxiety goes if it doesn’t seem too bad you can usually deal with it by yourself. I have tried medication but that just made me an emotionless zombie so I quit taking it. My anxiety is big when it comes to new activities, people, and/or places. After some introspection I believe it may be related to how hard I judge myself and mainly my fear of failure. Before I do most things I like to research so that I can be prepared and not just show up and fail.
When I don’t do that and jump in unprepared and have to do something new the anxiety spikes. I have since come to accept these moments because they happen and will continue to happen. Worrying about it won’t change the fact that is happening. People try new things/situations and fail all the time. Failure is common and an opportunity to learn. Sometimes you win some and sometimes you learn some.
I don’t expect new guys in my shop to show up and perform at the same level as others with more experience. When people try new things it is expected that they might fail. It is normal to fail. If someone points out your failure to make fun of you then they are obviously immature and lacking in manners if they make themselves feel good by putting down others.
> It's so bad now, that I don't see the need for a friend - I could live my life without concern for that, despite having had great friendships, but not without a lover.
As long as you understand that just because you don’t see it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist if that makes any sense. Lonliness sucks.
> I'm sure I've got 1 too many bad reactions to things I've said / how I've said them, that I just don't feel comfortable being "me" from the get go now - & I'm honestly nothing bad!
This is how it works with pretty much everyone in most social situations. You start talking to them politely and little by little letting more of your personality show until you reach a point they are comfortable with. Pay attention to yourself when you are with others and you will see that you act differently with different people.
> For example, I was at a part-social, part-work related get-together, with my younger teen siblings present. I was sitting with them & 2 girls who I knew from work. So, me being me, saw some matches & went to show them a trick whereby I made a match jump erratically. My siblings obviously were amused along with previous partners, but the reactions from the 2 girls were literally, "I don't get it", belittling dialogue & yawn. I'm not Houdini, but it was just a little musing - not a date pick-up line or something :/
So they didn’t like it, big deal. You can’t make everyone happy. What do you mean “not a date pick-up line or something”? Is that what they thought it was but you weren’t trying for that or something else?
> Just wondering if there are any other sectors that are viable, like the cushy life of School (though I blew uni. 3 years of solitude went by fast).
Not sure what you mean here. Also, I never went to a university.
> I'll possibly also try picking girls up through the controversially sexist PUA concepts with a twist - I'm going for love instead of one night stands.
Do not become a PUA practitioner. Not being yourself with others is deceitful and employing manipulative techniques to win people over with a false you will result in nothing but heartache and letdown for both parties involved. There’s a reason the saying goes, “the road to hell is paved in good intentions.” Good intentions do not excuse bad practice. Don’t you want someone to love you for who you are?
I wouldn’t want to be with someone who fell for the fake me over some manipulative techniques. By all means though go and explore the PUA community and form your own opinion. I’ve already done that and you can see how I feel about it.
> The skill of socializing Is something I'm going to need to work on - but is this something only available via practice in the real world / deep end?
Do scientist go out and practice real world applications without first researching? Some yes but most of the ones that make progress do not. We are past the age of being young and dumb were it was acceptable to make many mistakes socializing. As adults we are expected to at least be good at socializing and practicing social norms. Some of use are behind the curve and that is where the greatest information resource of all time comes in. I’m talking about the internet , of course, but books too. Now start researching but remember book smarts alone aren’t always enough. You must combine book smarts with experience to have a more fruitful outcome.
> This really is my current & largest ever life goal.
That makes sense because in a world full of people being able to properly socialize is one of the most important skillsets.
Here are some of the resources that I have used and have gained knowledge from.
r/Bumble subreddit for the dating app
r/datingoverthirty You may not be over thirty but there’s still a lot of good advice in there
r/malefashionadvice if you want to expand your wardrobe
r/swipehelper and by extension SwipeHelper.com This is a good resource for Tinder.
r/WritingPrompts because you said you like writing
Photofeeler for getting feedback on pictures you may want to use in the online dating sphere
How to Win Friends & Influence People The book was written a while ago so the situation may be outdated but the principles can still be applied today.
Models: Attract Women Through Honesty
From the description;
> “Models is the first men's dating book ever written on seduction as a purely emotional process rather than a logical one, a process of connecting with women rather than impressing them, a process of self-expression rather than manipulation. It's the most mature and honest guide on how a man can attract women without faking behavior, without lying and without emulating others. A game-changer.”
The Definitive Book of Body Language: The Hidden Meaning Behind People's Gestures and Expressions
We can continue our discussion here but if have any questions in the future I am just a PM away. I don’t have all the answers but I am willing to share my experiences.
The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People - Stephen Covey
Models - Mark Manson
The Bible Project
First book will teach you how to set goals and values for your life and to interact with people without being an ass.
Second book is about dating and will teach you how to be the type of person that attracts others without being an ass.
The last is the Bible project series of youtube. Watch everything they have to reorient yourself to what Christianity is truly about, I'd recommend reading your Bible while following along.
Read the first two books through the lens of the values and messages you get from the Bible/Bible Project.
Lastly, Stop being so emotional and blaming God for stuff that is completely in your own control.
Here's some advice from someone who is almost twice your age:
Don't worry about it. Sex is great, and fun and all those things, but focusing on trying to get laid is just going to come across as desperate. You're not running out of time, and It's not "harder" after college. Relax.
Focus on you. Focus on your hobbies and interests. Read a book,
Become the best version of yourself and the rest will work itself out. I promise.
Edit: I just read your post history because I wanted to ty and dig into the heart of the problem you are having. Your posts reveal a lot about your personality, and I think that some of the communities that you are hanging out in are giving you bad advice for how to solve your problem. I also think that your problem has more to do with you than it does with other people. I know that may upset you, but it's important that someone be honest with you instead of trying to give you strategies that don't address the root problem.
I mean this with the utmost respect, what exactly is it that you bring to the table here? Seriously, and "I'm loyal" or "I respect women" does not count. Look at it this way, if you met a girl with the same physical traits and emotional baggage that you have, along with the low GPA (demonstrates someone that probably isn't applying themselves), what would you think? Would you want to sleep with that person? Would you want to be friends with that person, or would you see that person as bad news?
I know what you're thinking. You're thinking, "this stuff isn't my fault." That may be true, but if you want to fix this problem, then even if this stuff isn't your fault, you need to make it your responsibility. I'm certain that if you're dealing with mental health issues, that there are resources at your school that can help you with them. I'm also certain that if your GPA is suffering, then your focus at school sucks, and you need to work with your academic advisors to come up with a plan to fix it. Finally, I'm certain that you can fix all of this stuff if you try.
So, what should you do to get laid before your last semester of college?
Take responsibility for your issues. Fix your shit. Be a man. Ask for help from people who can help you rather than strangers on the internet. Once you fix you, I'm confident that you won't have so much trouble with the ladies.
There is no aphrodisiac in the world like a person who is confident in themselves and successful at navigating the challenges of their life without expecting others to fix them.
He's reading the wrong parts of 'seduction'.
Point him in this direction
Forget women and focus on yourself. You're taking the right steps, but you're doing it for female validation and it's an unhealthy mental approach.
Congratulations on the weight loss, but crash dieting with a burn out can cause bigger problems.
\> Once the excess weight is off, I’m gonna begin lifting weights and working out to ideally get in shape
Start now. Lifting weights helps burn fat (during and after), it helps you hold the fat better, and you sound skinnyfat right now (not sure if you are, but either way). Start lifting. You'll probably spike up a few pounds at first, so take measurements (waist, 2 inches above waist, 2 inches below waist, hips, and chest across nipples) weekly so you can see progress there.
Read Models by Mark Manson https://www.amazon.de/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358. Yes it's a seduction book, look past that. Most of the book is about being honest with yourself and fixing your problems.
You've got this, feel free to PM if you need someone to bounce thoughts off.
Also, for the love of god, use paragraphs.
Read Models by Mark Manson. He writes that any guy will be a creep to some girls, given the right occasion. I don't see how this is different from fear of rejection. (NB: "Models" is not about how to date a photo model, it's how to model your behavior.)
Highly recommend you give that book a shot. It's not just about picking up women, but how to be "Socially successful."
From what I read, it sounds like you worry an awful lot about what others think of you. What I think you don't seem to notice is that a lot of people like on TS, skype, etc. Then you are a pretty likable guy. That's not any different than people are going to perceive you in "real life." I put that in quotes because that is real life. Those are real people you are talking to and real people who respect you.
You mean this one?
Well, one way is to do it in baby steps, slowly exposing yourself to things that cause you anxiety. I can recommend Mark Manson's courses which rely on CBT (which has been proven clinically and used by psychologists) and his book Models. Compared to most of the published PUA literature, Mark is intelligent, insightful and his analysis is spot-on.
You can also try reading The Book of Pook (which is free), although it's long-ish and sometimes unclear, it basically echoes a lot of what Manson talks about -- about how changing your mindset and behavior will lead to less anxiety and more success with women (and other people in general).
Thanks for the reco. I get my mindset from Mark Manson's Models
And here I was blinding myself. Glad to see someone who thinks like this.
I wish I had started at 16, I'm 21 now. If I could go back and tell my 16 year old self one thing, it would probably be to read this book. https://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358 it has changed my life and it will change yours.
I dealt with social anxiety issues in college which affected my grades and tanked my social life.
Once I graduated I decided to put a stop to it and pursued multiple customer service and sales roles. I ended up working in Banking as a teller when interest rates were abysmal and nobody trusted banks due to the mortgage crisis.
I also started reading a TON of books on social skills, psychology, dating, etc. The best book to help me be less shy and less anxious was [Models](Models: Attract Women Through Honesty https://www.amazon.com/dp/1463750358/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_BXmazb9EH2ZTQ), which is most commonly referred to as a Pickup Artist book
Now, I know the PUA community gets a bad rap (and deservedly so for some of it's advice/content), but I should point out that there are two camps:
You can imagine how much material there is on these topics. I can try to get you a jump start.
theattractionforums.com -> go to the newbie section
Read the popular posts from here in the side bar ->
If you think you need some personal help and want strategies based on your environment for creating a "funneling" strategy of getting hot women to come to you, just private message me.
Best of luck.
Brah, do yourself a favor and pickup these two books: [The Manual: What Women Want and How to Give It to Them] (http://www.amazon.com/The-Manual-What-Women-Want/dp/1456494554) and [Models: Attract Women Through Honesty] (http://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358/ref=pd_sim_b_6/178-2533780-7142310?ie=UTF8&amp;refRID=0RVQ2Y2G5WNRT10XD60K).
Seriously, these books changed the way I see getting girls and the whole female-male dichotomy. It teaches how to make things happen with a girls, and why it doesn't just happen and so much more. Trust me dude, these will change your life, but the key is to put what you learn into practice.
Nothing wrong with the kissing a man part, or even experimenting with it if you aren't into it, can't know until you try it. Any reaction to this part of it is probably overreacting but honestly understandable, we all are wrongly trained to feel like our masculinity is tied to our '100% straight, wouldn't even try it'-ness, just remember its ok to try different things even if they aren't who you are, trying things (that aren't dangerous) is how we learn, doesn't make you anything other than what you are (sounds like heterosexual).
Now for getting so drunk you made decisions you regret. That is something bad and something you can work on. Don't be disgusted with yourself, you made a mistake, and the end result was not the end of the world. No one likes the feeling of not knowing what they could have done and having to worry about doing things they wouldn't approve of when sober. The only way to fix that is not drink so much in the future that you lose control. That kind of drinking is romanticized by movies and stuff but not really good for anybody. Take this as a good warning not to overdo drinking in the future and not to use alcohol to deal with feeling down (which is one of the big times it will result in overdoing it).
Also, talk to your friend to make sure this doesn't happen again. Don't accuse if you were both drunk and consensually agreed, but let him know you don't ever want to do that again, and you'd appreciate if he ever find you in a state to not make decisions you are comfortable with, that he helps you remember what you'd want to do when sober. Remember, he made a bad decision too, but no different then you, he made a decision he wouldn't have made when sober, a reminder but not an accusation sounds in order. It sounds like its something you both decided to do while equally drunk, but there aren't enough details posted to say, if you think he really took advantage and you didn't want to, a very different conversation is in order, or at least stopping hanging out with that guy.
Anyways its going to be ok. You made a bad drunken (and emotional, being really lonely played a role) decision, we've all made those, or most of us anyways, at least yours didn't hurt anybody. You learned and you'll be more careful in the future. Cut yourself a break and don't beat yourself up about a mistake.
Also read this book if you want more confidence with women.
In India, no one is banging left and right. Don't buy into the western fantasy of sex flowing like rivers or you being a sad virgin. That's not happening in India man. Not in this climate. Not in this culture. Not in a reasonable time frame without you letting some other part of your life slide (example: your career). Yes I am saying that if you had to have lost your virginity by now you had to have sacrificed your career a while ago.
With that out the way, I sincerely suggest you to read this book: Models . This book will save your life. There is a lot of moronic advice floating around the interwebz and among guys who are so cocksure of themselves despite not having had any predictable framework to approach relationships that you are a "nice guy" and shit.
The blind are blinding the blind.
You've set the base right - you have paid the price of entry which is having a respectable social status. You now need to build the building and go from there.
I found this book very helpful.
We all got bad habbits to a certain degree, humans make mistakes.
In which way do they impede you in being happy & how can you work on improving them ( if you might decide to do so).
Going out of your way for atractive women.. hm, theres tons of stuff on the internet on that topic these days. yes, that's how life is.. life is unfair & she probbably thinks the same because if you knock her up & she gets bigg and round then that has more consequences for her then for you. Women make the choice about who they date with & thats natural. Men in general are uneasy with this. I think that because men are competitive, as a man i want to feel in control of my life ( captain of my fate) and yet when it comes to attraction / dating game then women have unfair advantages, just take a look at advertisements these days.
But.. at the same time Women are totally irrational when it comes to attraction. Atraction is an old brainfunction.. women fall for the strongest men ( also asshole types like gansters etc) dominant men. im not like that & you probabbly also not. But still, you can pursue woman with your character & by becomming an interesting in a way that is you like. Once you learn how to push the buttons of a women you can make her feel attraction for you as well (since atraction is irrational anyway). Wanting things to be different is normal though, that really pretty women also has her insecurities (all people do).
There's a whole truckload of books written about this topic, there are even seminars where you can go and get field workshops in which you go out with others and get guided into approaching and talking with women (in states and europe at least).
I found this one to be good:
Making a lot of the same mistakes at work, sounds to me that you are quite self critical - which (I think) is a good thing.
At least it makes me think that you care about your results and want to do a good job. If you can then try to be honest.
Your not making the mistakes on purpose & you want to improve, maybe your manager or coworkers (someone you trust)
can help you to produce your desired results. At least some type of help & a plan.
Best of luck !
Try this book out. http://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1371316971&amp;sr=8-1&amp;keywords=models+mark+manson
If haven't read it yet, the book Models by Mark Manson is available on audiobook [via Amazon] (http://smile.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1397687274&amp;sr=8-1&amp;keywords=models+mark+manson). The quality of the audiobook is a bit amateurish (Mark did the narrating himself and used a mediocre recorder), but the content is what matters. And the content is well worth the $15 you pay for the book.
Read No More Mr Nice Guy & Models.
Just remember, confidence is sexy. At the end of the day, it's all on you. Browse r/seduction...just take everything you read with a grain of salt.
Here is some inspiration for you:
Tupac about Women and Bitches
Old School Star Wars
Dr. Cox from Scrubs & more
Sean Connery interview with Barbara Walters
Wolf of Wall Street - "There Is No Nobility in Poverty."
...not really to do with anything but still good advice:
Rocky's speech to his son
I think you being aware of it is a great step, so many guys are completely clueless until the rug gets pulled out from under them.
I wouldn't go so far as to not ask her to do stuff, I'd just mention it, and if she seems indifferent, just say cool and switch the subject and bow out of the conversation to go do stuff for yourself. If she turns it down, the killer is acting hurt / defensive / etc.
Some of the best written, easiest to digest answers to your questions are in the book 'Models' by Mark Manson. Grab a used copy and also check out his website, tons of good info on dating and life in general there too. I'm not affiliated with him, his was just the best advice I've read so far about similar situations. Good luck, and hit me up anytime if you need an ear!
No worries! I came across it after reading his book Models
Best of luck in your research!
I would like to recommend this book. It's unlikely that you'll agree with everything in this book (I didn't) but it's very practical and deals with a lot of topics that are easily missed on this subject.
Got an answer for ya
Working my way through Models by Mark Manson.
Currently reading through this book and I've found that it really matched my experience, and had insights into problems I really recognize in myself. Don't let the name throw you, it isn't a PUA manual, it's more about the negative things you express subconsciously, and how to consciously improve yourself.
I'd strongly advise you to read this book:
>These two things are related. Go and lift even if you have to drop weight to do so... just get out and lift something.
Roger. Did just so an hour ago. Feel much better already.
> You had a bad couple of weeks. So what? Just get back to it. Look at the bright side - you're probably still 10x better than before finding MRP.
Thanks. Something something forest for the trees. Right on brother.
> Yeah it takes work to be the Captain especially in your situation with your wife's mental issues. Just keep at it.
Pretty sure a Captain doesn't cut it with this woman and her mental issues. She requires a Fleet Admiral. Only makes me stronger.
> Wow, our lives go in a parallel here regarding no PIV for weeks.
How are you dealing with it both physically and mentally, if you don't mind me asking? Might help me.
> Outside of Game and Day Game, what other are good books for this?
I have heard good things about Models by Mark Manson. It's on my audible list to listen to. I like the idea of honesty in this book.
Read this book. Buy it, download it, whatever. Just read it.
Oh man, also thanks for your reply.
Looks like our stories are remarkably similar - I also wasn't able to get off half the time, her self esteem was tanking, we started having issues, arguing about stupid stuff. Also had similar problems with keeping interest in girls - the chase is all cool and exciting, then you do the right things, you close, the girl starts getting attached and I freak out since I lose interest.
I thought ton of it has been due to my interest in PUA after I was introduced to it by a buddy of mine (and he had similar loss-of-interest issues) but I stopped being a player and started being more honest/genuine, but my interest in girls went down very quickly after closing with them.
So I adapted a different approach, I basically have "receptive girls" all over the world, we're on friendly terms and whenever I'm in town or they are in town, we'd sleep together. That way I didn't need to keep commitment and relationship and would still have sex fairly frequently.
Now that I'm on my 40th day and feeling the reboot a bit, I feel more in control of myself and am less afraid of commitment. I want to get to know a cool girl and spend time with her and if things don't work, so what, there are many cool girls out there.
I recently read Mark Manson's Models (http://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358), it was a fairly important book for me to read and help me on my NoFap quest.
Likewise good luck!
Version? lol I didn't know there were different versions. Here is the Amazon link
You will find someone eventually, despite how you feel now. I found reading this book really helped: https://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358
Do you have any female friends? Any female friends of friends? If you never interact with girls outside of a professional setting then it's going to be difficult to feel comfortable around them. Like all things, it takes some degree of practice and exposure before your brain stops freaking out about it, regardless of your age.
It's been a while, but the book breaks down the mechanics of being a 'nice guy', in particular the 'transactional' nature of how they view relationships (especially with women), and then helps guys build behaviours that help them end that kind of thinking. If you find yourself thinking "I do all this for my crush/girlfriend/fiance/wife but they don't show interest/affection back", then it's perfect for you.
It's a really good book, but I would say it's only a beginning. I'd follow it up with Models by Mark Manson, and I have The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck on my bookshelf, but haven't opened it yet.
Estoy leyendo este libro Models: Attract women through honesty y me senti muy identificado con estas dos paginas. Conozco a mas de uno que tambien se puede identificar con esto que dice.
Please read this book.
models a comprehensive guide to attracting women
> Magari riesco a spiegarvi meglio i miei problemi e li capisco a pieno anche io.
Fai bene allora a chiedere. Come diceva Oliver Sacks, parlare non e' solo uno scambio di informazioni, ma un modo che il nostro cervello usa per elaborare attivamente le informazioni.
Detto cio, potrei sembrare banale ma ti consiglierei uno di queli libri di automiglioramento.
questo e' probabimente il piu consigliato su /r/seduction: http://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358 (dai lo sappiamo tutti che vuoi fare questo sforzo di socializzare solo pero conoscere una ;)
A me poi e' piaciuto il vecchio libro di Carneige, che e' un libro praticamente centenario e da cui tutti i successivi "life-coach" e libri di self-help hanno riciclato: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influence_People
PS: ti consiglio anche di leggere romanzi, secondo me aiutano ad affrontare le situazioni sociali
Here's the link btw in case it's confusing which book I was talking about:
Actually decided to post based on a professors suggestion to write in ways I normally wouldn't, in places I normally wouldn't. These, here, trying to deliver quality OC to Seddit!
(Also, to a degree, remind lurkers that Seddit doesn't have to be contingent on being a dick 'amog,' and there are good ways of doing so) Rant end: read that book, Models (a title I got from seddit). It helped me reframe/reposition may of the pua values to much more fitting ones.)
Cheers for the ad love, fun business – what'd it transition to?
why hide your emotional attraction?
Copy-pasting my comment for OP because I want you, u/jQueryWhore and anyone similar to read this.
I strongly recommend Models: Attract Women Through Honesty. I listened to the audio book via audible and it really helped me understand why I personally had issues with women and was in a similar position. A lot of similar books take a more pickup artist side of meeting and attracting women, but Mark does an excellent job explaining why that doesn’t work in the long run. He goes through what works for him, and breaks down a lot of the issues men face and how deal with it from the ground up rather than just bandaid solutions. It’s a great starting point in understanding and improving yourself. You have to do some leg work in figuring and applying this stuff but I definitely recommend.
I can go into my experience if you are interested, though the real meat and potatoes are in the book, and it’s a must read/listen to for men who struggle with attracting women at any stage of the relationship or courtships.
That place spends most of the time teaching you how to act like you don't emotionally need to be desired and approved of by women... in order to win the desire and approval of women. While also channeling bitterness and anger at women.
Instead he should try to actually work on himself and get to a point where he actually doesn't need the approval of women just to feel okay. In my personal experience, this is easier said than done. I recommend the book No More Mr. Nice Guy. Also, I'm married so this isn't my thing, but I've heard the book Models is also good.
I have solution for you, if you want to learn how to provide women more value, and hence be more attracted to you. Read the logical and practical book: Models: Attract Women Through Honesty.
Wish you success with the women.
Ok, first of all, don't fret. Nothing I haven't heard before.
I'm guessing you chill on reddit cuz like most of us you have a bit of social anxiety or some shit like that. That's going to be a decent gating factor to meeting quality women (online dating is nice, but hear me out).
You're not going to attract anyone while you're looking for a relationship (old adage: the one you don't see coming), you need to do yourself and build yourself into a person who women want to be with. Emotionally.
Just read this bookread this book, it'll change your life. It certainly helped mine out. :D
And always feel free to shoot a PM if you need a bro.
it has nothing to do with looks bro. I might get hate for this but check out Models by Mark Manson
You shouldn't kill yourself.
Read this book.
I'm going to write up a longer response, but first I need to ask you; Have you read "Models", by Mark Manson? https://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358
Dear Stranger on the internet,
I think the question is a bit flawed, so it will be challenging for anyone to give you a satisfying answer. Is it normal to sleep with escorts? Sure. Is there anything inherently wrong with that? No, I don't think so. As a general rule, if an activity brings you satisfaction and doesn't cause any harm to yourself or others then it will be okay. I'll leave it at that because I think others here have already expressed this general idea better.
What I really hope to do in this post is to pass on some advice, from one internet stranger to another.
First, I want you to read The Confidence Gap. Some of the things will seem stupid, silly, or cheesy, but please, do it.
Next, I want you to read Models: Attract Women Through Honest. It's a poor title. It's not misogynistic bullshit and it's not a magical "here's how to get hot women."
Then I want you to go out and get shot down on purpose. Seriously. Go out to a bar and the first 10 women you see, use what you learned from reading those two books. Get rejected 10 times.
Congrats! You've now learned that getting rejected doesn't mean anything. Nothing is wrong with you, nothing is wrong with the women, they're just not interested. The end.
the models link is to purchase the book.
that's the raw link. Mark Manson has a website: markmanson.net has some good reads on there.
I know this way too good... women love to play with men.
The thing is: you gotta decide if you want to play a little bit along or she can fuck off..
btw.. I'm currently reading this book. Great Author many truth :D
Models: Attract Women Through Honesty
Just practice. Nothing seemed to work when I was in college but now I’m in my 30s and it’s easy. I do better with girls in their early 20s than when I was their age.
Also, I’ve read a lot of the books, and this one is by far the best (and most enjoyable to live by): Models: Attract Women Through Honesty https://www.amazon.com/dp/1463750358/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_.Hx-Bb60GWZHB
Haha "pithy", never heard that before. I think it's positive. I got this little nugget of wisdom from this fabulous book:
I was kinda socially awkward and new a few years ago myself and am having much better luck nowadays. Most of the highly upvoted posts on here have decent info. If you're lookin for a decent book about being a dude and dating nowadays this book is a good spot to start. I heard about it on here on this subreddit and it has a lot of useful information.
> Do what you think you should do, theres nothing wrong with fucking up sometimes.
OP came here for help because he is clueless as to how he should approach this. And while I agree that he should do what he believes he should do, OP lacks the guidance and a model of how an attractive man acts.
To OP: I want you to read the book Models by Mark Manson. It's an amazing book that will help guide you not only through your trouble with women, but it allows you to learn to love yourself and become genuinely confident with yourself.
There was a time in my life when I would worry about every little thing to say to a girl, how I should impress her and how not to offend her. Reading Models helped me so much and I know that it will help you.
Do yourself a favor and give it a read, it will be one of the biggest steps you ever make in your personal development.
I agree that gimmicky PUA shit isn't the way to go. I've read Mark Manson's book and it was helpful, but it's definitely helpful to get info from additional sources. These books are pretty essential IMO:
Well first off I think the self awareness you have is amazing, that’s a really good trait to have.
Like the other commenter, I think 17 is a bit too young to worry about things like this. You have a VERY long life ahead of you. You should focus on school and your future as a main priority.
However, I agree that people who say “you’ll find a girlfriend naturally” are not telling the truth, or have been lucky.
I recommend looking at r/seduction. I think that finding a girl is about action, you do have to try, they just don’t come naturally. r/seduction is all about picking up women, and asking girls out, which is what every guy needs to do to get a relationship. I also heavily suggest reading Models by Mark Manson. It’s a beautiful book on being confident and getting into a relationship.
The main point is that if you want a girl you have to
> By being honest and yourself, you may drive some people away, but here's the catch: you wouldn't have been happy with them anyway. Think about it. If being yourself makes someone walk, is that someone you would've been happy with in the first place? I doubt it.
This is exactly what this book is about. Pretty good read IMO.
Models: Attract Women Through Honesty
By Mark Manson
This is pretty much what Models by Mark Manson deals with.
The Game isn't a book that you should be reading for newbie advice. From what I've heard, it's more of a story about the authors journey of seduction and not an instruction manual.
Since you're a beginner, I HIGHLY recommend that you read Models by Mark Manson instead. I suggest that you put down The Game now and start reading THIS.
Damn, that is very hard to deal with. I'm glad you made this post though, because it's important to vent, and look for solutions.
This is a good opportunity to perhaps invest this emotion into something greater that will help you overcome any feelings of insecurity you have that end up becoming apparent in your relationships even when you don't realize it. You mentioned gaining weight? Perhaps join a fitness club, start adjusting some lifestyle habits. r/fitness has some great resources, you'll be surprised how many of those folks started because of something like this in their lives. If you feel like there's something wrong with the women you're attracted to, I like this guy's book (also this article might be more related). The book kind of comes off as one those PUA things but it has some really valuable lessons on vulnerability, and the stem causes of manipulative behavior.
Just find an interest that you can dedicate time to and never forget that time is the best healer. The line is so fucking cliche but it is very real. Things feel shit now, and it isn't easy. But give yourself time to think things over, and allow yourself to be mad because that shit does not sound fun. But don't just stop trying to make yourself better. Good luck dude.
I think you are angry at a collection of negative traits you've seen in some women, and then attribute to most women.
Read Models, it's not shy about pointing out shitty parts of dating, and doesn't put women on a pedestal. It shoots straight, explains how things that are attractive to women are linked to ancient signs of social hierarchy (the female equivalent of how wide hips a blend boobs are attractive to malesbecause it indicated fertility) , and is very insightful early and often.
It's OK to be sensitive in certain ways. If I could give you a piece of advice, it's to ignore those perspectives. They're toxic and agonizing over them won't do you any good. In fact, if it sets off your insecurities, it's gonna be worse for you all around.
Try to do everything you can to give yourself a sense of optimism, with the total understanding that it can be really, really hard sometimes. What you're feeling is normal, and it's tough to feel lonely.
I'd recommend you take a look at Mark Manson's Models. I really enjoyed it, and I think you might benefit from his perspective.
I'm 28 and struggle with interacting in a non-platonic way (went on my first date at 25). There has been some improvement though - I don't have any major embarrassments because of reading about dating for so long, but people do judge you more harshly if you're older and awkward.
This book was pretty helpful for me.
Read this book, tons of information
Mark Manson:"It's about being less invested in others' perceptions instead of NOT invested in others' perceptions."
Neediness is caring more about what people think of you than about what you think of yourself.
Confidence is caring more about what you think of yourself than about what others think of you.
You can show interest. You don't have to be aloof to be attractive, just be more aloof than she is.
> Where do you think boys get the idea that you put niceness-coins in and get sex in return?
They get it from confusing seriously important messages that they are told (stop being an abusive, violent asshole to women like previous generations of men were) with a message that the point of this was to get them laid. The point of not being a misogynist is, well, not being a misogynist, because women are people too, with complex desires, needs, and emotions of their own, who should not be abused.
> No man who is successful with women has ever suggested this idea.
Not in quite such simplistic ways, no. But then you get guys like Mark Manson who suggest that connecting with women is what works best in the short and long term.
And guys like me. I was a nice guy who, in my youth, treated women like people to get to know, and frequently had wonderful physical relationships with them. And I was quite low-status by most all RP standards, and all of 140 lbs. at 6' tall. But it worked over and over, constantly amazing those around me. And one day I tried to help a friend meet a gorgeous girl, and it didn't work, but I made friends with her anyway, and eventually she asked me out and now I'm almost 20 years into a marriage that still looks like a brand new one.
It's not "be nice and get laid", but rather "not treating someone like a full person will get you bad long term results."
That sucks. I recommend you read this book https://www.amazon.com/dp/1463750358/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_.w.5xb6X59PBB
Honestly I would really recommend reading Models by Mark Manson http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1463750358?pc_redir=1408942425&amp;robot_redir=1 (you can find a pdf easy enough).
He practically guides you through bettering yourself.
With good looks, confidence, and money, your chances are good. Biggest success rate change for me was learning to be forward--not submissive (/r/TheRedPill, Models, etc).
Online dating is tough. It's swarmed with guys and the girls there are often spoiled by their attention. I still use AM/OKC/CL, but the girls are typically much less attractive than my real life pickups. Still worth a run in most people's opinions. It's a better hobby than TV.
Picking up girls in the real world is the most fun, and if you have any swagger, your best odds.
But honestly, you should get a divorce. Staying married to this woman horribly hinders your options. There are troves of lovely 18-35yo ladies that'd date/marry/procreate with a 50yo man. Your current wife can remain a friend, but "I happen to be legally married" is something you need to tell a woman before you fuck her, and it runs a lot of them off.
Younger women will date an older married man, too. But the relationships are much more likely to be shallow and just be about sex or money. I don't recommend cruising for single girls and lying to them about your married status btw. That ends very badly.
NMMNG = No More Mr Nice Guys - http://www.amazon.com/No-More-Mr-Nice-Guy/dp/0762415339
Models = http://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1377661947&amp;sr=1-1&amp;keywords=models+manson
I recommend this book
That's plain false. Some are rooted in manipulation and became famous on TV because they're a sensation. Others are rooted in boring concepts such as self-improvement and honesty.
I personally think that you should appreciate women's beauty, however I feel that catcalling would be unnecessary i didn't see any approach done "right", i actually feel that people, specially men should learn some social dynamics specially towards talking to the opposite sex, and by this i don't mean learn pick up and fuck as many girls as possible and shit like that, but because I feel that its important to be able to connect with women in a way. I feel that a lot of rapes, and sexual frustration, and probably prostitution is because men want an easy way out, and don't want to put in the work to approach women, and now you could even go online dating if you don't like it but i think that men become more aware of how to deal with this certain situation, I am working on myself to be able to approach a girl and give her a genuine compliment and to mean it because I say it and say it because I mean it, not to get attention that just because by catcalling people I 'prove im manly' they come off as needy and shit.
Although I feel that people, specially women, if you learned some pick up or rather some more sociability they see that as ungenuine and even more chumpy, but the counter argument i would say is they are not being genuine either, they use make up and they are manipulating their appearance to look more attractive and in a way is manipulating me to think better of them, I am against some of the principles of pick up but the dating science isn't wrong, but its on the right path. I personally think that, like in my case, if you know you suck with women, and you don't want to be in a path of crappiness and neediness, via using prostitution to get laid or roofing people to get laid or rather rape girls, or vast usage of porn, I would say that its good.
I personally would recommend reading Models by Mark Manson because the book is really fucking awesome and it would make you a better man, and perhaps reading the 'further reading' books from that book help you understand the mating system of humans, and to become a better man. I think the book itself is actually really good because it states more than just to get laid is to find quality women to be fullfillled and be more happier with women, and in a way is actually attacking the dating science in a way by attacking The Mystery Method which all pick up could be summed up by that single book. In a way I would recommend both and take the best from both because neither of them is 'wrong' but niether one of them is 'right'. I do agree with Manson's idea of confidence and working in yourself more than in women and being sexualy fulllfilled doesn't require large amounts of women, while I also agree with Mystery's focus on competence vs. confidence because he says that you can't quantify confidence and rather focus on number of approaches and really statistics because that shows competence and successful competence breeds confidence eventually but in a way Manson's idea is better, because he is coming from a place of abundance of women and general happiness, is like saying being 'good' with women is something you are and not do and your looks, money demographics and ect does matter in the equation, over mystery's idea which is coming from neediness, because he refers as girls having 'high value' and by that you are infering that you aren't enough for her so you have to in a way manipulate yourself into making her thinking you are 'good enough' so that it doesn't matter if you look like a fucking troll no matter what if your 'game' is 'tight' it doesn't matter what even if the girl is married or anything really, she will sleep with you and that isn't the case, because mysetery uses a lot of indirect and 'fool proof' tactics that are more convoluted than just expressing your intent and if it doesn't work out move on asap, I'd say that take the best they both are right, and both concepts are correct but im leaning more the natural no scripts type of things and just being freeforming it.
I'd recommend both people getting those two books and they will change your life or at least make you think better and be more aware of how to flirt better. And perhaps reading Double your Dating by David DeAngelo, this one focuses more on dating girls and setting up and getting exposure to women over, is focused on both competence and confidence, and in a more natural way. I'd say get them, you can torrent them if you are so cheap, but defenitely read up on them and see what comes out of it.
So defenitely get Models by mark manson and Mystery Method because you can get a really clear picture on the subject of picking up women, and Double your Dating by David D just the simple ebook don't dig too much into it.
other books, I heard of them, and read some reviews on amazon and they seem to have really good reviews but I haven't gotten them or read them but they seem legit too.
Bang by roosh V
Day bang by roosh v
The manual by W. Anton
the Natural by richard la ruina
Get inside her by Marni Kinrys
they all seem like good resources to start and move on from there... and work on specific sticking point, but i'd say don't believe everything use them as guidelines and not as rules, and take them with a pinch of salt. the reason for this was because when I read the Mystery Method, it was well argued and every contingency is planned for, that I couldn't really find fault with the method, And so I believed all the "high value" bullshit that i fucking felt that i needed to one up everybody and that isn't the case, i was able to rescue myself from that mindset by Models, and I really thought it was genuine and it doesn't rely on too much bullshit and is more natural there is no one upping bullshit. I am not preching seduction community but i feel men should know what they are doing, specially if they suck like me, and be just more aware of things.
Perhaps i'd also reccomend
Gifts of Imperfection by Breene Brown since this book really digs somewhat on the self acceptance/self worth/self esteem part and what pick up artist would call 'inner game' ...
I'd say pick whatever books you want to BUT STOP reading too much into it, i became too paranoid and wanted to read every book on pick up out there and that is not the case guys, hope i helped.
TLDR--read books, become aware, know better, don't be a creep but don't be chump either, get informed guys know your shit,
J'approuve, Mark Manson qui m'a beaucoup plus ouvert les yeux que 1 an passé sur ces communautés équivalentes.
Models by Mark Manson.
This book completely turned my life around, and I'm not talking only about sex & dating.
Also, you can go and check /r/seduction out.
Don't bother with online dating as a dude, honestly, you'll be grossly disappointed. You'll have much more luck using your confidence and charisma in real life. Christchurch has tens of thousands of eligible women.
Edit: Read Models.
Likely downvote bait, but there really is some good information for your situation in /r/seduction. There is also some smarmy pickup bullshit, so use your own judgement.
The information of value simply has to do with self improvement, and emboldening your interactions with women to clearly display your intentions. This is difficult to do, but short of that you often end up as a friend. As that's what you're acting like.
Can't say I care for the title but I really recommend this book: http://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358.
It explains very well how simply being your unabashed self, honest and genuine with your interactions, is key to your romantic pursuits.
Read these two books:
How about using this as a chance to talk about both of your real, honest needs. Do you really think you're going to be able to meet ALL of her physical and emotional needs for the rest of your lives? Monogamy doesn't work.
I also would suggest reading some of the great books on seduction and game. Also try to be patient and remember you're still young. You have the rest of your 20s and things will click eventually.
I would start with this one: https://www.amazon.com/Models-Attract-Women-Through-Honesty/dp/1463750358