Reddit reviews More Guns, Less Crime: Understanding Crime and Gun-Control Laws
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Surely you're aware that the average "gun enthusiast" is more trained than the average law enforcement official, and also less likely to break the law (police are 23x times more likely to break the law than a concealed carrier)? See 1 and 2.
During the last study that was done (1993), Police were also more likely (1200x more likely) to accidentally shoot someone than a concealed carrier. See 3.
1: http://crimeresearch.org/2015/02/comparing-conviction-rates-between-police-and-concealed-carry-permit-holders/
2: https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0226493644/ref=pd_sxp_elt_l1/102-3993670-7898564
3: http://crimeresearch.org/2015/02/cprc-in-fox-news-police-are-extremely-law-abiding-but-concealed-handgun-permit-holders-are-even-more-so/
More Guns, Less Crime
Which is why I clarified on what timeline I was basing my original comment on and expressed that it seemed like you disagreed. I said he should have been carrying and you are writing a dissertation of every choice he's made in his life. Sure man, lots of things can happen, and I'm just expressing my opinion. People can do whatever they like. It's my opinion, like I said, to feel which side the odds are on. For example, it's my opinion that it's probably safer carrying a gun in a gun free zone than not. It may not be (oh god what if I shoot myself!) but that's my opinion.
At that point I think we are just debating safety of himself and those around him on the basis of whether he is carrying or not. I don't think there is a way to convince someone on the fence either way, but the way I read the odds and my own confidence/experience/training, I'd rather be on one end of the situation than the other. You can point out statistics but so can I. You say it's statistically unlikely for a person to be in the situation, and I point out it's unlikely for a CCW to commit a crime or accidentally shoot someone in the heat of the moment as you point out that could happen. I think it's fair game, but you seem to think I'm upset and rabidly defending my position and decided to write a novel to me on the subject about confirmation bias and shit. I got shit to do man. I'm basing my argument in response to yours. You wanna use statistics, then I will too. But don't call me two faced for calling you out on it and using it against you. Like I said, you wanna talk about majority, then we'll talk about majorities. If you wanna talk about exceptions, then we'll talk about exceptions. That's pretty much all you talk about so let's talk about it.
> Than who? And I'd love to see the stats. I love stats.
Civilians. Police. Take your pick. There are plenty of comparisons on the Googles or just do math. I think they have less traffic violations too. :)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3518334/
https://crimeresearch.org/2015/02/comparing-conviction-rates-between-police-and-concealed-carry-permit-holders/
https://crimeresearch.org/tag/annual-report-on-number-of-concealed-handgun-permits/
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/12/foghorn/ny-times-uses-deceptive-statistics-to-promote-anti-gun-agenda-again/
https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0226493644/ref=pd_sxp_elt_l1/102-3993670-7898564
http://www.gunfacts.info/gun-control-myths/concealed-carry/
https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/who-are-the-greater-threats-to-public-safety-police-or-carry-permit-holders/
http://dailyanarchist.com/2012/07/31/auditing-shooting-rampage-statistics/
Talk about breeding paranoia. There is paranoia against legal carriers.
>Don't think that just because the police are trained in the use of firearms that they are less likely to kill an innocent person. A University of Chicago Study revealed that in 1993 approximately 700,000 police killed 330 innocent individuals, while approximately 250,000,000 private citizens only killed 30 innocent people. Do the math. That's a per capita rate for the police, of almost 4000 times higher than the population in general. OK, that is a little misleading. Let's just include the 80,000,000 gun owning citizens. Now the police are down to only a 1200 times higher accidental shooting rate than the gun-owning population in general.
>That still sounds high. So let's look at it in a different light. According to a study by Newsweek magazine, only 2% of civilian shootings involve an innocent person being shot (not killed). The error rate for police is 11%. What this means is that you are more than 5 times more likely to be accidentally shot by a policeman than by an armed citizen. But, when you consider that citizens shoot and kill at least twice as many criminals as do police every year, it means that, per capita, you are more than 11 times more likely to be accidentally shot by a policeman than by an armed citizen. That is as low as I can get that number.
>This is not meant to be an indictment of the police. In fact, because police often live on the edge, they naturally tend to shoot first and ask questions later. Although they are trained to repress this instinct, it does not always work, as evidenced by the number of innocent people killed by police. Also, since they are generally better marksmen, they tend to kill, rather than wound or totally miss their target.
>The Kleck study shows that police shoot and kill around 600 criminals each year. Yet the University of Chicago study shows that police killed 330 innocent individuals in 1993. That means that for every two criminals killed by police, one innocent citizen is killed by police. Although I have the greatest respect for the police and how they must respond under pressure, I think that I would much rather trust an armed populace.
>Also the person who had the gun was and 9 times out of ten would not be taught self restraint for such a situation.
Please give me a source for this? It was studied that civilians actually make fewer mistakes then police. Firearm owners constantly enjoy their hobby while police do not get adequate training.
> A University of Chicago Study revealed that in 1993 approximately 700,000 police killed 330 innocent individuals, while approximately 250,000,000 private citizens only killed 30 innocent people.
-Study was compiled into this book here
Also a Newsweek article found:
>Only 2% of civilian shootings involve an innocent person being shot (not killed). The error rate for police is 11%. What this means is that you are more than 5 times more likely to be accidentally shot by a policeman than by an armed citizen.
>Which is obvious due to the shots he releases whilst the man in on the floor
Just because a person is on the floor does not mean he isn't a danger. What if he turned around and shot back? Hindsight is 20/20 but one doesn't take chances when their and other's life is in danger.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0226493644/ref=pd_sxp_elt_l1/102-3993670-7898564
Enjoy not reading my source.
Well i guess the kid read this BS book and did what he considered the logical thing.
After all, nothing bad can happen when every person no matter how irresponsible or unhinged has a gun.
Property > Life.
I would have preferred "Mein Kampf", "Helter Skelter", "The Anarchists Cookbook", or More Guns, Less Crime
Your haid asplodes.
>The officers unloaded 16 rounds in the shadow of the Empire State Building at a disgruntled former apparel designer, killing him after he engaged in a gunbattle with police, authorities said.Three passersby sustained direct gunshot wounds, while the remaining six were hit by fragments, according to New York Police Commissioner Ray Kelly. All injuries were caused by police, he said Saturday.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/25/justice/new-york-empire-state-shooting/
>Detroit has experienced 37 percent fewer robberies than it did last year, and Police Chief James Craig is crediting armed citizens for the drop. “Criminals are getting the message that good Detroiters are armed and will use that weapon,” Chief Craig, who has been an open advocate for private gun ownership, told The Detroit News in an interview. “I don’t want to take away from the good work our investigators are doing, but I think part of the drop in crime, and robberies in particular, is because criminals are thinking twice that citizens could be armed.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jul/16/detroit-police-chief-says-armed-citizens-are-curbi/
> Newsweek has reported that law-abiding American citizens using guns in self-defense during 2003 shot and killed two and one-half times as many criminals as police did, and with fewer than one-fifth as many incidents as police where an innocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal (2% versus 11%).
http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2012/02/21/disarming-the-myths-promoted-by-the-gun-control-lobby/2/
> in 1993 approximately 700,000 police killed 330 innocent individuals, while approximately 250,000,000 private citizens only killed 30 innocent people. That's a per capita rate for the police, of almost 4000 times higher than the population in general.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0226493644/ref=pd_sxp_elt_l1/102-3993670-7898564 However, this dataset is 21 years old, but a good reference.
Armed Resistance to Crime:
The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun: http://www.guncite.com/gcdgklec.html
Northwestern University School of Law, Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, vol. 86, issue 1, 1995.
TEN MYTHS ABOUT GUN CONTROL, Duke University
http://people.duke.edu/~gnsmith/articles/myths.htm
Ok. You lose.
A Chicago University Study
revealed that states which passed concealed carry laws reduced their murder rate by 8.5%, rapes by 5%, aggravated assaults by 7% and robbery by 3%
The average number of people killed in mass shootings when stopped by police is 14.29 according to the FBI Crime Data.
The average number of people killed in a mass shooting when stopped by a civilian is 2.33. Which then do not "qualify" as a "mass shooting" so do not get reported by the media.
Another fun fact.
Conceal carry owners nationwide have a 3% error rate when correctly identifying and shooting the bad guy.
The police? 11%.
Facts hurt don't they?
You just got schooled son.
Your safe space is ---------> way