Reddit Reddit reviews New Deal or Raw Deal?: How FDR's Economic Legacy Has Damaged America

We found 12 Reddit comments about New Deal or Raw Deal?: How FDR's Economic Legacy Has Damaged America. Here are the top ones, ranked by their Reddit score.

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New Deal or Raw Deal?: How FDR's Economic Legacy Has Damaged America
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12 Reddit comments about New Deal or Raw Deal?: How FDR's Economic Legacy Has Damaged America:

u/iambored1234 · 6 pointsr/Libertarian

1.) Answers will vary depending on what "wing" of libertarianism someone adheres to. I'll just focus on two.

Minarchists (Ron Paul/Gary Johnson types) would argue some level of taxation is necessary to maintain an exponentially smaller government than exists now. This vision of government would operate essentially only defense, courts, and police. Minarchists will generally argue for a simplistic consumption tax or flat tax of some sort. Some argue for limited tariffs instead so our citizens are not directly taxed at any point. Their approach is debated internally, but united in that the net taxation would be dramatically reduced. In this world, government continues to collect revenue and spend it on its very limited endeavors - not much has changed besides the scale of collections and operations.

Anarcho-capitalists (Rothbard types) would say that you cannot be logically consistent in arguing the inefficiency of government and moral issue of taxation, which minarchists do argue, and then still accept its role in society. These types will argue for a peaceful transition to an entirely pure market based economy via the privatization of all government services. They point that government services already have private equivalents which are always more efficient: Fedex/UPS vs USPS, government schools vs. private schools, privately operated toll roads, private airport security (which is already the norm in some other developed countries), private binding arbitration, etc. This includes regulatory bodies: NSF and Underwriters Laboratories are real examples of private sector regulators where companies pay to have their products evaluated and approved based on their objective third party standards. So, to answer your question: in their world, government doesn't operate at all and instead all interaction is through voluntary contracts in the market.

Minarchists are usually somewhat sympathetic to the anarcho-capitalism view, but will say it is fantasy because the general populace already views government as a wholly benevolent entity. Personally, I generally believe in anarcho-capitalism and do believe government as we know it is obsolete and unnecessary in the modern world. In the 20th century capitalism brought us a previously unfathomable increase in the standard of living while the institution of government meanwhile slaughtered hundreds of millions in the name of communism, World War I and II, etc. But, off my soap box for now.

2.) This is hard to answer concisely, so I'll instead recommend three books.

The first is FDR: New Deal or Raw Deal. It reviews objective data to argue that FDR & friends were not the godsent savior of the world that government schools teach. The, very oversimplified, conclusion of this book is that FDR terrorized the market with incredibly arbitrary and tyrannical intrusions during his tenure and prolonged what could have been a comparatively simple market correction into the "Great Depression" as we know it. After his death, it argues, the market was returned to a state of normalcy and we were given the incredible boom that followed the end of World War II. If you're really interested in the topic, I suggest giving it a read. It's rather dry, but very interesting since it goes against everything we're taught.

The second book is to review how the government, via the Federal Reserve, intrudes into the economy by manipulating interest rates and thus exacerbating the natural cyclical nature of the market. The Austrian School of Economics, the economic theory that is most often associated with all of libertarianism, argues this is where the Great Depression and, more recently, Great Recession, came from. An easy introduction to this topic is End the Fed. Its, very oversimplified, conclusion is that the Federal Reserve artificially stimulates demand by fixing interest rates below what they would be in an untainted market. This then leads to overconsumption (the bubble) in a whatever area of the economy the government decides is politically fashionable to push at the time.

The third book is to bring in a modern context about the government's role in the 2008 crisis: Meltdown. It applies the Austrian Economic view onto the most modern economic crisis. It's writing style is much more interesting than the first two books I offered and, frankly, it's just more interesting since it happened in our lifetime. The principles can also be applied to the Great Depression and it also references the mistakes made in dealing with it as well since we basically followed the same path. Its, very oversimplified, conclusion is that the government is wholly responsible for the 2008 crisis by setting up an environment that incentivized overconsumption. By violating basic economic laws, it argues, the government created a situation that was doomed to fail and nothing could have stopped it from all crashing down.

3.) To be logically consistent, yes. Heavily regulating economic activities will inevitably spill over into regulating social activities. As a small example, the IRS selectively targeted conservative groups because of their views and sought to destroy them. By having this economic intrusion into the market (the entirety of the IRS as an institution), the government attempted to purge these groups of their basic human right to self-expression.

4.) I do not believe in it. Simply by being born in a physical location does not enslave you into what a former generation believed was your "role" in society. As a small example, you are in no way morally obligated to pay for the inactivity of senior citizens through Social Security (or whatever similar program your country has if you are outside of the US). To say that you are because FDR & friends, before you were ever born, decided to deploy Social Security as a cash grab is sheer nonsense. You are not a slave to some ivory tower politician(s)'s whimsical views on what your "lawful role" in society is supposed to be.

edit: formatting, oops.

u/conn2005 · 5 pointsr/Libertarian

I highly suggest you read New Deal or Raw Deal, used copies can be purchased for 3 bucks.

u/1791067421612 · 3 pointsr/GoldandBlack

First, I don't know much about the graph or the data. Statistics can be used to mislead and I wouldn't be surprised if there was more hiddden in this.

And then, there comes his rant. My god, what a shitshow.

>Let’s go back before World War II to the Great Depression. Speculative unregulated policies ruined the economy.

Seriously? How can someone believe that? This is for people who do.

>The New Deal policies reflected that national purpose, honoring a social safety net, increasing bargaining power for workers and bringing public interest into balance with corporate power.

Come on. This is not that hard...

> In this narrative, they [CEOs] deserve more wealth so they can create more jobs, even as they lay off workers, close factories and invest new capital in low-wage countries.

Yep, fuck those poor people over there. This is the hypocrisy I find most astonishing. The entire article is his complaining about wealth inequality but when the market starts leveling out the greatest example of income inequality (first world vs third world countries), then he's all up in arms to prevent it.

>In the new moral view, anyone making “poor choices” is responsible for his or her own ruin.

No comment.

>Millions of part-time workers must please their employer to get hours.

Thanks, Obama.

>We can start rebuilding our social cohesion when we say all work has dignity. Workers earn a share of the wealth we create.

How can socialists still argue this? Workers can earn a share of what they create. Anyone can. It's called a stock exchange. The problem is that few of them want to. And why would they? An important part of having a steadily-paid job is the risk-minimalization. Why would the worker want to decrease their income uncertainty and increase it at the same time?

This whole thing is just ridiculous. And sad.

u/Lepew1 · 3 pointsr/askaconservative

This book by Burton Folsom goes into great depth on it. They are rather generous on the sneak preview, and you can thumb through it to get a small taste of all the ways in which he failed.

u/tgjj123 · 1 pointr/Libertarian

The Law - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1936594315/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=thmariwi-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1936594315

Economics in one lesson - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0517548232/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=thmariwi-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0517548232

That which is seen and is not seen - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1453857508/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=thmariwi-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1453857508

Our enemy, the state - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001E28SUM/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=thmariwi-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B001E28SUM

How capitalism save america - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1400083311/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=thmariwi-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1400083311

New Deal or Raw Deal - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1416592377/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=thmariwi-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1416592377

Lessons for the Young Economist - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1933550880/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=thmariwi-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1933550880

For a New Liberty - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1610162641/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=thmariwi-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1610162641

What Has Government Done to Our Money? - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/146997178X/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=thmariwi-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=146997178X

America's Great Depression - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/146793481X/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=thmariwi-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=146793481X

Defending the Undefendable - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1933550171/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=thmariwi-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1933550171

Metldown - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1596985879/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=thmariwi-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1596985879

The Real Lincoln - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0761526463/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=thmariwi-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0761526463

The Road to Serfdom - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0226320553/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=thmariwi-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0226320553

Capitalism and Freedom - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0226264211/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=thmariwi-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0226264211

Radicals for Capitalism - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1586485725/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=thmariwi-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1586485725

Production Versus Plunder - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0979987717/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=thmariwi-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0979987717

Atlas Shrugged - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0452011876/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=thmariwi-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0452011876

The Myth of the Rational Voter - http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0691138737/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=thmariwi-21&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0691138737

Foutainhead - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0452273331/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0452273331&linkCode=as2&tag=thmariwi-20

Anthem - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0452281253/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0452281253&linkCode=as2&tag=thmariwi-20

There are of course more books, but this should last you a few years!

u/NoTimeForThisShit383 · 1 pointr/Libertarian

Libertarian writes about the deleterious effects of regulatory capture that can only be resolved through deregulation.
Everyone else hears: "deregulate it all and it'll magically work out somehow, regulation EEVVIILLLL"

This is why I don't really bother trying to convince anyone of anything anymore. If we write a short explanation of our views then we're idiots that didn't think through our position, if we post a lengthy argument, then "TLDR". So how can we win? Besides, being wrong is politically expedient.

George Sigler's, "The Theory of Economic Regulation" shows how regulation in general inevitably benefits wealthy corporations.

The Great Depression was basically a case study in how insane amounts of regulation and micromanagement can cripple a society. I recommend New Deal or Raw Deal if you just want to see convincing anecdote.

The solution is simple but political suicide; Instead of telling people how to do things, society should instead ensure that people are simply providing the good or service they advertise, and not infringing on other's property rights.

Or more simply; Don't lie, don't touch other people's shit, mind your own business.

u/orange_fuckin_peel · 1 pointr/lifehacks

https://www.amazon.com/New-Deal-Raw-Economic-Damaged/dp/1416592377

read the reviews, highly acclaimed as objective from both parties lol. but let me guess, you wont read it

u/pewpsprinkler · 1 pointr/Libertarian

The chart I linked to you earlier shows that the United States started to recover in 1933, and was in the midst of a strong economic boom in 1939, years before Pearl Harbor.

How do you respond to these undisputed facts? With a nonsense book quote.

First, let's clear the air, Mr. Panamanian expert on the "documents in your library of congress", the Library of Congress is a LIBRARY, it contains all kinds of books, including the one you cited without attribution. Here it is.

You want to focus on 1 statistic and 1 statistic only: unemployment. First, unemployment is not all that matters. It is one of many factors, and an economy can grow and be strong even with significant unemployment, which is exactly what happened in the US in the 1930s. Employment took time to catch up.

Second, unemployment was already rapidly dropping before World War 2, and did not only start to drop BECAUSE OF World War 2. In fact, the war caused a labor shortage:

>So great was the demand for labor that millions of retired people, housewives, and students entered the labor force, lured by patriotism and wages.[12] The shortage of grocery clerks caused retailers to convert from service at the counter to self-service. With new shorter women clerks replacing taller men, some stores lowered shelves to 5 feet 8 inches (1.73 m). Before the war most groceries, dry cleaners, drugstores, and department stores offered home delivery service. The labor shortage and gasoline and tire rationing caused most retailers to stop delivery.

In Panama, do your parents teach you to insult your betters constantly? Maybe that is why you are such a poor backwater country.