Reddit reviews Parenting Beyond Belief: On Raising Ethical, Caring Kids Without Religion
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I suggest you pick up a book called Parenting Beyond Belief
It has a chapter specifically about dealing with death. Here is a short (but not terribly useful) excerpt I found on their website:
from "Dealing with Death in the Secular Family" by the Rev. Dr. Kendyl Gibbons
>The human impulse to deny the reality of death is deep and ancient. It affects us all both as individuals and as a culture. Nevertheless, death confronts us all, including our children. One of the challenges of parenting is to introduce this subject and help them respond to it in developmentally appropriate ways. There is a great deal of helpful literature about how children deal with death, and both secular and religious children have much the same needs for reassurance and support when they begin to confront mortality. The particular challenge for secular families is the absence of comforting answers supplied by doctrines and images from various faith traditions. Yet by telling the truth, providing emotional comfort, and validating the child's own experiences, secular parents can give their children the tools to understand and accept death as a natural part of life and to find meaning in their grief.
Lead by example and let it go from there. Let him ask questions when he's ready. If he asks why doesn't he go to church like his friends do, you can tell him that you don't really believe in God, that you think you and your family are still good people, but would he like some information? Encourage him to ask questions and develop his own opinion.
Here are some resources for you, too.
Website: Atheist Parents
Books: Parenting Beyond Belief and Raising Freethinkers
Good luck, and congrats on your new family! You'll be a great parent. :)
Books
Books
and books.
The main stressed point to raising secular children is teaching them HOW to think rather than WHAT to think.
Focus on giving them tools of skepticism, on questioning authority, on doubting claims without proof, etc.
but most important: just be there for them. Love them. Respect them. and they will follow suit
Rehash of a previous post of mine:
For a secular view on child raising, check out the books "Parenting Beyond Belief" and "Raising Freethinkers" by Dale McGowan: http://www.parentingbeyondbelief.com/ (site seems to be down for the moment). I have heard that they are very good.
The site has also a Youtube channel, and judging by the videos the contents of the books seem excellent:
The, uh..."Genesis" of Parenting Beyond Belief
Why religious literacy is important (Parenting Beyond Belief #2)
Religious literacy done right...and wrong (Parenting Beyond Belief #3)
Influence without indoctrination (Parenting Beyond Belief #4)
"What if your child becomes religious?" (Parenting Beyond Belief #5)
I think that even only watching the videos gives you a good introduction in how to approach religious issues with your kids.
You begin by discussing death. Read newspaper obituaries at breakfast. Discuss what people valued in their lives, and how they live on in the people who remember them, and the good deeds they performed while alive.
Next, explain why religions exist. They attempt to answer:
At age 5, you could truncate it to only a discussion about where we're going. Most importantly, religion exists because of peoples' fear of death. They want to live forever, so they invented gods. They also didn't understand anything about the world around them, why storms came and ruined their crops, what the lights were in the sky, etc. So they attributed these things to gods.
As we've begun to understand the universe through scientific discovery, religious people have redefined their gods continuously throughout human history (the 'god of the gaps'). We understand weather, so we don't blame drought on gods being angry or good weather on gods being pleased with us.
If the 8-year-old knows the truth about Santa Claus, it's a learning moment. Gods are Santa Claus for adults. They believe because it comforts them, so long as they don't think too deeply about the absurdity of their beliefs.
For the 8-year-old, discuss the various major religions, and at the same time, ancient religions (both given equal legitimacy, which is to say, no legitimacy).
Explain that almost all of their friends believe in gods. Most importantly, explain that people don't want to be told their gods aren't real. Explain that people feel so passionately about gods, like little kids feel passionately about Santa Claus, that they will treat you badly if you reveal you don't believe in gods. Religious friends might choose to not be your friend anymore if they know. Teach them to smile and change the subject, not to engage religious people in a religious discussion. Their lives will be hell if they don't because kids can be very cruel.
Check out these books:
I highly recommend Parenting Beyond Belief to all atheist parents.
I've done many things with my young son like teaching comparative religion, making a game out of lying to him to see if he catches on to tune his bullshit detector, etc. Still, there's no guaranteeing what he'll choose when he's older, and that's fine with me. I've done all I can to help him think well about the world, understand and look for good evidence, etc, and that's the best and most important thing I can do.
I don't think it's a good idea to just tell them there isn't a god. However, I do tell my child I've seen no good reason to believe there is a God. There's a large difference in the two statements.
Take the Yeti for example. I don't think there's a good reason to believe that the Yeti exists, but I don't think we can rule it out entirely quite yet.
I'm agnostic towards the Yeti, just like I am towards the deist, panentheistic, and pantheistic gods. I don't think they are either necessary or likely, but they are plausible.
On the other hand, I'm pretty sure YHWH as seen though the Bible is total bullshit, just as I am quite sure that there isn't and never has been a flying unicorn.
I teach my kids appropriately. Having the appropriate amount of confidence in your conclusions is a critical part of rational thought and the scientific method. Every part of our knowledge should have error bars on it. When we forget this, we become fundamentalists, no better than the religious. Surety is great, but the goal is to make our surety match the available evidence, and not overclaim for what we know.
definitely this book.
http://www.amazon.com/Parenting-Beyond-Belief-Raising-Religion/dp/0814474268 is also worth a read as a parent.
Raising Freethinkers: A Practical Guide for Parenting Beyond Belief
You might find the follwing recommendation and the related Customers Who Bought This Item Also Bought recommendations.
https://www.amazon.com/Parenting-Beyond-Belief-Raising-Religion/dp/0814474268
Great story!
> Would having something they deeply believe in not help?
Why would it? Christianity and/or religion doesn't magically impart morality. Christianity's form of morality is "Be good or you'll burn in hell for eternity" It's telling them not to be good, but to do good or else.
I haven't read it but a friend has suggested it: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0814474268
On the topic of raising children in a mixed-faith environment, I'd recommend the book Parenting Beyond Belief.
Teaching our children how to think critically from a young age will be the biggest help in fighting against nonsensical beliefs.
I recommend Parenting Beyond Belief. It has anecdotes from athiests about how they have handled these situations and a lot of them were very helpful.
My kids were old enough that we HAD to talk with them when we left. My younger ones were mainly relieved they didn't have to go to church anymore, but the older one was worried and confused for a while. We've talked about it a lot, and have made sure he knows we're open to discussing it any time. It doesn't come up all the time, but it's not uncommon.
Have you read [Parenting Beyond Belief] (https://www.amazon.com/Parenting-Beyond-Belief-Raising-Religion/dp/0814474268/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1504214653&sr=8-3&keywords=parenting+beyond+belief) yet? If not, give it a try. It's got good suggestions for talking to kids about life and belief, and raising a secular family while many others around you are religious.
Parenting Beyond Belief and other books like that helped my wife and I figure out what to say to our kids. We were both raised in hardcore Evangelical Christian families.
EDIT: Had some time to A. Wake up, and B. Get my shit organized.
So my first recommendation is to read these 3 books.
http://www.amazon.com/Relax-Its-Just-God-Religious/dp/1941932002/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1452781395&sr=8-1&keywords=relax+it%27s+just+god
http://www.amazon.com/Parenting-Beyond-Belief-Raising-Religion/dp/0814474268/ref=pd_sim_14_5?ie=UTF8&dpID=41mSJWJjhCL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR104%2C160_&refRID=136KZ8YRX0P0CY93EJGA
http://www.amazon.com/Magic-Reality-Dawkins-Richard-Hardcover/dp/B011SKFWNK/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1452781427&sr=1-2
These are all geared more towards the parents, but it sounds like that will be just as beneficial to you. I've worried about the same exact stuff you're worried about ever since my wife told me she was pregnant. These books have been a fantastic resource. The first 2 help you prepare for the inevitable questions (which it sounds like you're already getting) children ask in regards to our origins. There's nothing I can say here that will really improve upon what's contained in these books, so my #1 suggestion is to just pick them up and read them. "Relax, It's Just God" Is a quick read, so I'd probably start there.
I'll just say, for anyone that hasn't read them, or doesn't intend to, the most important thing I took from these books is this:
Please don't shield your children from religion. It's played an incredibly important role in the founding of civilization, and it continues to be a dominant force in society (particularly if you're in the US). By shielding your children from all things religion, they will have no defense against it when they are inevitably confronted with it. To a child, the easy answers and flimsy logic of religious dogma can seem persuasive. By refusing to talk about it, or not engaging them honestly in discussions about it, you're essentially sending them out into the world unarmed.
Now, once you've sort of amassed this collection of tips and strategies for talking about it with them, you need to build an understanding of the concepts that ACTUALLY govern our world. There's a lot of great resources out there nowadays that introduce complex things in a very approachable way. If your children are on the younger side, I'd recommend these books:
http://www.amazon.com/I-Wonder-Annaka-Harris/dp/1940051045/ref=pd_sim_sbs_14_5?ie=UTF8&dpID=51Xa9vh-4mL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&refRID=13A7B660SHNYNWGNRS9J
http://www.amazon.com/Our-Family-Tree-Evolution-Story/dp/0152017720/ref=pd_bxgy_14_img_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=12ZKCH4ZP41R11J3AQC3
http://www.amazon.com/Older-than-The-Stars-Karen/dp/1570917884/ref=pd_bxgy_14_img_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=1NTGW8B5FNWYGW2MDDGP
I buy these 3 for every single one of our friends that has a child (provided I'm cognizant of their beliefs, wouldn't want to step on any toes)
I think one of the things religion has going for itself, that science and reason kind of lag behind in, is instilling a sense of wonder in people. It's easy for adults to marvel at things like quasars, black holes, the process of DNA replication, etc., etc., but it's a bit harder to instill that sense of wonder in kids without getting into some really dry science. That's why religion (in my opinion) is still so successful, it offers easy answers to really difficult questions, and doesn't really require you to think too hard on it. "I'm scared of dying" is easily answered by "Well don't worry, God loves you and will bring you to heaven with him."
There's also some great videos on youtube I'd recommend (though they vary a bit in regards to age appropriateness):
https://www.youtube.com/user/sciencestatedclearly (evolution)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rHUDWjR5gg&list=PL8dPuuaLjXtPAJr1ysd5yGIyiSFuh0mIL (Astronomy)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X56fBK1JlY&list=PLsmqeqKj7M-rZe1C9PUon8V-VQ1tZj5NF (evolution)
Kids, even very young kids, are a lot smarter than we give them credit for. Knowledge of the way the world actually works is the best insulator against religious dogma, so give them as much as they can handle. When that kid at school tells them God created everything, instill values in your child that will lead them to ask "why" instead of just accepting that at face value. And if your child comes home and says, "Jimmy said god created the world" you can respond with, "Well yes, that's what Christianity says, do you know what Islam says? Hinduism? What about the Greek Myths, those are pretty cool huh? Most civilizations have a story about how everything got started, but none of them really agree with one another, and we've never been able to prove it. Scientifically we have a pretty good idea, but there's a few things we don't know yet, and that's perfectly fine. It's ok to say 'I don't know' when it comes to big complicated stuff like this. Let's see if we can't find out more! (insert books/videos/research here)"
My son is barely a month old, so I'm a ways off from a lot of these conversations, but I'm doing my best to prepare myself. I hope to teach him how to tell whether a source is reliable or not, how to be skeptical (particularly of those in power) and how to think critically, and not stop digging just because the answer he arrives at makes him feel better. Luckily, there's a plethora of information out there nowadays from secular sources that is geared towards people like you and me and our non-religious offspring.
EDIT: The other book I will recommend that's not a parenting book and isn't geared towards kids is "Your inner fish". There is a series of youtube videos based of the book if you prefer that. Basically, it makes evolution really cool, and in a way that (in my opinion) you can tell your children about easily. Things like why our skin is the way it is, why we look the way we do, etc. All stuff kids will probably ask.
(I have two boys 2 & 5)
"I would highly prefer her to be atheist as well"
I think this is mistake number one. I think you should want her to be rational and skeptical, atheism is typically just a byproduct of these vastly important characteristics. In the end, atheism is right and if you raise a kid to question and be skeptical, religion won't win I promise you. It can't, it ONLY works when people are convinced as children and raised to believe doubt is wrong. Teach Doubt and you will be fine. Right now my five year old tells me he believes in god, last week he didn't. I don't really care because he is 5 and that is what kids do. Don't worry too much about that part is my advice. Don't worry about other people so much trust that you can raise a daughter who is intelligent enough to come to the rational decision on her own. I don't know about you but that decision is still probably the most monumental decision I've made in my personal life and I cherish going through it and getting to this point.
On death, I say just be honest. Tell them about how are bodies break down and go back into the circle of life. All of that stuff that actually happens and is really quite beautiful. Kids can handle reality better than fantasy I think, because kids will naturally have questions and being able to have REAL answers is key.
Here are some good resources that helped my wife and I quite a bit.
Raising FreeThinkers: http://www.amazon.com/Raising-Freethinkers-Practical-Parenting-Beyond/dp/0814410960/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1334847247&sr=1-1
&
Parenting Beyond Belief: http://www.amazon.com/Parenting-Beyond-Belief-Raising-Religion/dp/0814474268/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_2
If the dad is atheist/agnostic, I would highly recommend the book "Parenting Beyond Belief".
http://www.amazon.com/Parenting-Beyond-Belief-Raising-Religion/dp/0814474268
Must read:
Parenting Beyond Belief: On Raising Ethical, Caring Kids Without Religion - Dale McGowan
This looks interesting:
http://www.amazon.com/Parenting-Beyond-Belief-Raising-Religion/dp/0814474268/ref=wl_it_dp?ie=UTF8&coliid=I2LNDKYM5W36LJ&colid=1BTC7M6440N9T
Well, I think a good place to start is r/exmuslim or r/exislam.
Also, there is a book that recently came out written by an atheist named Dale McGowan called [Parenting Beyond Belief.] ( http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0814474268?pc_redir=1411128277&robot_redir=1)
Here's Dales [site.] (http://parentingbeyondbelief.com/resources/)
There is also [raisingfreethinkers.com.] ( http://raisingfreethinkers.com/)
This site is good for the mothers perspective especially.
Also, my advice. Have her read Greek mythology first. I found when I was a kid that it was not only more entertaining than the bible but, it helped me.
And when she is old enough to read and comprehend better, have her read the books of current religions themselves.
Hope this helps and be careful out there with it, yeah?
Edit.
We had a very similar experience! 4 years of treatments, when another IUI failed we called it all off for a break. At that point we were truly at the "not ever going back to church" decision. One month later, preggo! Our son is now almost 17 months, not blessed, will never be involved in the church himself, and I have formally resigned. Its AWESOME! May I recommend two great parenting books I've loved reading and that have helped me a lot on my way out of Mormonism and in learning how to raise my boy without the church?
http://www.amazon.com/Parenting-Beyond-Belief-Raising-Religion/dp/0814474268/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1376170920&sr=1-1&keywords=parenting+beyond+belief
http://www.amazon.com/Raising-Freethinkers-Practical-Parenting-Beyond/dp/0814410960/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1376170920&sr=1-2&keywords=parenting+beyond+belief
Best wishes and of course CONGRATS!!!!
Nice points and in regards to Obama I concur with your opinion.
As for the children issue, I disagree. I have three children of my own and my wife is still a theist (non-practicing). I don't have a solid answer for what to do about their belief system, but I fear doing anything in support of a conformist message. Yet I have still done the Snata Claus thing with them, since I remember that with joy in my own childhood.
So I don't really have a great response to the question of children. I haven't bought this book yet, but I have heard good things about it.
I highly recommend the book Parenting Beyond Belief:
http://www.amazon.com/Parenting-Beyond-Belief-Raising-Religion/dp/0814474268
If your son already hates the church then nothing is going to change in his life, except maybe he won't want to party as much if he knows it isn't a sin. Seriously though, just talk with him about all of that stuff and I am sure he will be fine. I would recommend not be overly restrictive with him. My mother did that to me and I went party crazy when I moved in with my dad and was free from her chains.
Also, just because your son may become an atheist along with you does not mean he is more likely to be a party animal. That is a non sequitur. The church would have you believe things like that. I would recommend picking up a book on how to raise atheist kids like this, or pick up some books on child psychology. I remember all the wonderful things I learned in my child psychology class and will be going through that textbook again if I ever decide to have children. Best of luck.
This is a good book on raising kids without religion, it might help you with some of your questions:
http://amzn.com/0814474268
I guess you should also find out why your girlfriend is open to letting your daughter go to church. If you both don't practice religion anymore then why would she want her daughter to be involved with religion? Is it just to appease her parents or some other reason?
Also, if you both want the community and support aspect of a church without the dogma you could look into Unitarian Universalism:
http://www.uua.org/index.shtml
Depending on where you live you might be able to find a UU church around you where you can attend some services. They welcome people of all faiths and cater more to living a good life vs. following an ancient doctrine.
I would strongly recommend this book. http://www.amazon.com/dp/0814474268/ref=nosim/?tag=parebeyobeli-20 Its got some really good mixed marriage stuff.
A) Keep her away from reddit
B) There is a pretty good book on the subject: Parenting Beyond Belief
It is basically short chapters from various atheist parents, some famous, some not. It's pretty good. I was expecting a field manual on atheist parenting when I ordered it but thought it was great nonetheless. Also, I have no kids and am nowhere near having any... yes, i'm crazy.
I'm in a similar situation. I've been reading this book and it has short essays about people doing the same thing we are doing. Well worth the 13 bucks.
I'm not a parent, so I haven't read it personally, but I've heard great things about Parenting Beyond Belief: On Raising Ethical, Caring Kids Without Religion
Parenting Beyond Belief...great book, and there are so many others!
http://www.amazon.com/Parenting-Beyond-Belief-Raising-Religion/dp/0814474268/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1334000406&sr=1-1
Well for a pastafarian I would recommend this book http://www.amazon.com/Parenting-Beyond-Belief-Raising-Religion/dp/0814474268, its not the 'latest discoveries in child development' but it will help you raise kids in a secular household. Really fun and easy read too.
Related;
Parenting Beyond Belief by Dale McGowan: http://www.amazon.com/dp/0814474268/ref=nosim/?tag=parebeyobeli-20
Website: http://www.parentingbeyondbelief.com/about
Note: The Amazon link above is from Dale's website and will give a little extra back to Dale if you buy through Amazon. Here's a direct link; http://www.amazon.com/dp/0814474268
Read this to them at bedtime:
http://www.amazon.com/Jonathan-Livingston-Seagull-Richard-Bach/dp/0743278909/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1345079584&sr=1-1&keywords=jonathan+livingston+seagull
Also a good resource:
http://www.amazon.com/Parenting-Beyond-Belief-Raising-Religion/dp/0814474268/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1345079453&sr=8-1&keywords=raising+secular+children
Read this...It helped me with my daughter.
There's a book on this kind of thing: Parenting Beyond Belief
I've got a little ways to go (14 mo. old), but the following books have been recommended in other threads and have been on my wish list a while and might be helpful:
In the Beginning: Creation Stories from Around the World
Parenting Beyond Belief: On Raising Ethical, Caring Kids Without Religion
On the scouts question, from what I've read the scouts in the US patently don't allow atheists, so I'm pretty much planning on avoiding them entirely unless at the boy's request. Luckily I live in an area that sports a large number of non-religious folks so I'm hoping that through friends and such we'll get our fair share of camping and outdoorsy stuff without resorting to scouts.
The question explaining death to kids in a non scary and non religious way comes up quite a bit in this subreddit. Several months ago my wife and I went to a workshop by Dale McGowan. I couldn't recommend it enough if it comes to your town. You can pick up his book though if it doesn't Parenting beyond belief .We found it very helpful.
Edit : punctuation
We still have FHE with our kids. Over time, we've sorted through our values, and what is important to us, and we'll continue to do that. But we teach kids lessons based on that. I also talk to my kids about some things on the news, things that happen to them at school, etc. It isn't hard to find ways to teach kids outside of the church.
For service, find some good service opportunities for them through local organizations.
Here's a book full of short chapters that are essays or stories from parents: https://www.amazon.com/Parenting-Beyond-Belief-Raising-Religion/dp/0814474268
Don't forget, you are the parent now, so if you want to raise her without religion and on public school, that is your choice now. Although, it might be wise to not make these changes immediately.
http://www.amazon.com/Raising-Freethinkers-Practical-Parenting-Beyond/dp/0814410960/ref=lh_ni_t
http://www.amazon.com/Parenting-Beyond-Belief-Raising-Religion/dp/0814474268/ref=lh_ni_t
http://www.amazon.com/Raising-Emotionally-Intelligent-Child-ebook/dp/B005HF2VI2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1344057659&sr=8-2&keywords=raising+emotionally+intelligent+children