Reddit reviews Paying the Tab: The Costs and Benefits of Alcohol Control

Ok. So I had a hunch that it're really a small percentage that's skewing the numbers. You know, just like if you talk about how the top 1% are super rich when it's really a small fraction of that pulling the rest up.

With that in mind I went and tried to find where the data came from. Slate's quoting the Washington Post, who are quoting this book. Going from there, the WP says the book is using data from here, but all I could find was that one page, not the actual data.

Without the data, and more information on the collection methodology I can't say anything about the distribution or even if the things is valid. Not exactly what I was looking for.

tl;dr: I don't actually trust that this is valid. The data probably is, but the way they've sliced it seems to be trying to tell a particular story. It might not be lying with statistics, but it's pretty darn close.

Having it illegal in the current form is porbably the worst possible option. Making it completly legal and giving it to states like alcohol is probably the second worst option.

We will have state competition if that is undertaken. Similar to cigarettes currently, where a state like NYC can't correctly price cigarettes since a third of their cigarettes are smuggled in. We will have ineffective regulation and states that very restricted in their ways to implement it.

( cc /u/potatos2468 /u/Polus43 )

One thing people should always remember is that 10% of all consuments end up consuming 50%-60% of all alcohol. The alcohol industry earns its profits from addicts, those who consume 10 or more drinks each day, every day year round. This looks even worse for cannabis, were heavy users account for around 80-90% of all cannabis used as far as I know.

So there is an EXTREMELY strong incentive to sell to problematic users. For profit cannabis companies make their money by providing drugs to addicts. I find that highly critical.
In addition to that, heavy adolescent use will climb, which is the thing we want to prevent the most. At least as far as I know, this has been the case in all states that have legalized so far.

Additional Link.

This will create lobby interests against strict laws and so on, all the stuff that cigarettes and alcohol already went through.

I'm no expert, but that's the opinion I have gathered from stuff I've read on it.

Good RAND paper and good RANDpost on the topic.

I also believe there are some bad outcomes that we haven't yet seen. More heavy cannabis use

So I am personally against a for profit legalization which we have seen in most states that have legalized so far. Does that count as not being in favour or legalization?

edit: why am I getting downvoted? genuinly curious

Nevermind

> That rate was in one particular city that was picked because it was a "representative Midwestern US community" and was normal on most measures of alcohol use.

And I can believe that or not.

I didn't make the causality argument because it wasn't there until you tried to stack causal arguments on top of it.

The Cook numbers claim the top decile of the population drinks an average of 10 drinks a day. This is supported by, first of all, survey data which says the top decile drinks 5 drinks a day, and second, by sales data that shows twice as much alcohol sold as the survey data accounts for consuming. This is not valid methodology. It's not like rape; there is no great stigma in most communities for admitting alcohol use. There are lots of possible explanations for the discrepancy; even if we assume the survey participants understated, there is no reason to believe they all understated the same. Cook was engaging in advocacy, not neutral science -- this is the blurb for his book

> What drug provides Americans with the greatest pleasure and the greatest pain? The answer, hands down, is alcohol. The pain comes not only from drunk driving and lost lives but also addiction, family strife, crime, violence, poor health, and squandered human potential. Young and old, drinkers and abstainers alike, all are affected. Every American is paying for alcohol abuse.

He means the lower number. I saw the stats one time too and I think he's remembering them wrong. I think it was the top 10% of drinkers consume more than the 90% and the top 1% drink 10+

I'll try to find the source

Edit. I was wrong, he was right.

I read the same stat here
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think-you-drink-a-lot-this-chart-will-tell-you/?utm_term=.3d05f46c2caf


That quotes this book
https://www.amazon.com/Paying-Tab-Benefits-Alcohol-Control/dp/0691125201

That's shocking. I used to be in that stat (fifth a day a my worst, zero now) but it's amazing how many were with me.

If you actually bothered to read the article (which you clearly did not) you'd know that the source of the numbers is Philip J. Cook's Paying the Tab; the Washington Post was merely reporting on them. Philip Cook himself got the numbers from the US government.

Why are you so butthurt about this? Is it because you're an alcoholic, or is it because you sell liquor?