Reddit Reddit reviews Sex and the Single Savior

We found 8 Reddit comments about Sex and the Single Savior. Here are the top ones, ranked by their Reddit score.

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8 Reddit comments about Sex and the Single Savior:

u/rainer511 · 26 pointsr/Christianity

tldr; There are millions of us that feel the same way. I hope you don't forsake Christ in name in response to those around you who are forsaking Christ in deed.

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I'm writing this during a break at work. Since I have to make it quick, I'll be recommending a lot of books. There is really too much here anyway to do justice to all of the questions you've put up, so even if I were to give a real, detailed response, I would probably have to resort to suggesting books anyway.

> 1.) I don't think that all of the Bible can be taken literally. I strongly believe in the sciences, so I think that Genesis was written either metaphorically or simply just to provide an explanation for creation. Are there others here that believe that or something similar? How do others respond to your beliefs?

There are many, many, many others who believe similarly. And not just recent people responding to evolution, there has long been a tradition of taking Genesis metaphorically. For a good group of scholars and prominent Christians that take a stand for a reading of Genesis that respects the way that science currently understands origins, see the Biologos Forum.

For a good book that shows the error of inerrancy, how it stunts your growth as a Christian and a moral agent, and how inerrancy limits either human free will or God's sovereignty see Thom Stark's excellent new book The Human Faces of God.

> 2.) Why does it seem that Christianity is such a hateful religion? I am very disappointed in many Christians because they spew hatred towards other instead of spreading love. I think that the energy that is going into the hatred that many spew could be used for good. Why aren't we putting these resources towards helping others? This would help bring people in instead of deter them away.

Again, millions of us feel the same way. It makes me sick as well. However, I don't think the answer is forsaking Christ in name in response to others forsaking Christ in deed.

There are many strands of the Christian faith that have strongly opposed violence of any sort. Look into the Anabaptists, the Mennonites. Podcasts from Trinity Mennonite are pretty good.

For a good book about Jesus and nonviolence see Jesus and Nonviolence by Walter Wink.

> 3.) How can people be against gay rights still? This is clearly religious issue and not an issue of morality. If you choose to follow the parts of the Bible that are against homosexuality, then why do you not feel the need to follow many of the other ridiculous laws that are in the Old Testament?

I'd like to stress that, again, there are millions of us that feel the same way. And many, many of those who still believe it's a sin think that we have no place emphasizing that in a world where LGBT teenagers are killing themselves from the humiliation. There are many, many of us that think that whether their lifestyle is "sinful" or not the only thing we should show them is love.

For more about interpreting the Bible in light of today's social issues, see Slaves, Women & Homosexuals: Exploring the Hermeneutics of Cultural Analysis by William J. Webb and Sex and the Single Savior by Dale B. Martin.

> Do you believe that the government has the right to say who can and cannot get married? Why can't this just be left up to each individual church?

I'm actually strongly in favor of civil unions for everyone. I wholeheartedly agree that I don't want the government defining marriage... and the only way for the government not to define marriage is for the government to take its hands off marriage altogether; whatever the sexual orientation of those getting married.

> 4.) This was a question that I was asked in my other post that I was unable to answer.

Yes, the penal satisfaction view of atonement has its shortcomings. It's not a completely bankrupt idea, but it takes a lot of nuance to convey it in a way that isn't altogether abhorrent and senseless.

The first Christians believed something similar to what we call today "Christus Victor" atonement.

For a picture of the varied atonement theories available for understanding what Jesus did on the cross, see A Community Called Atonement by Scot McKnight. For a list of ways to understand atonement in a contemporary context, see Proclaiming the Scandal of the Cross by Mark D. Baker. For more on a view of God that is consistent with the love of God as revealed in Jesus, see Rob Bell's Love Wins: A book about heaven, hell, and the fate of every person that ever lived.

> 5.) I asked this in the other post, so I feel that I should ask it here. How many of you do or will teach your children about other religions? Will you present them as options or will you completely write them off?

I'd be wholeheartedly open to exposing them to other religions. And I'd want to do it in a way that does them justice. Most Christian "worldviews" books frustrate me due to the way they portray other's religions. In the long run if you don't accurately portray the rest of the world and you try to shelter your children from it, they'll simply feel betrayed when they grow up and finally learn what's out there.

I believe Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. I actually believe this. Why wouldn't I try to raise my children as Christians?

But again, I wouldn't want to misrepresent the other religions and I certainly wouldn't want to shelter my children from them. For a book that I feel shows the good from many of the world's most prominent religions, see Huston Smith's The World's Religions.

u/brojangles · 15 pointsr/AcademicBiblical

One significant but controversial book on this topic is Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality: Gay People in Western Europe from the Beginning of the Christian Era to the Fourteenth Century by John Boswell.

I'd also recommend Dale Martin's book Sex and the Single Savior: Gender and Sexuality in Biblical Interpretation as well as his book The Corinthian Body (if you can get it), which is not only about homosexuality, but does discuss it and how it pertained to Paul's views on the subject.

One thing that should be understood is that the ancients did not think of sexuality in terms of fixed orientation. That is, they did not think in terms of "gay and straight," but much more along the lines of "tops and bottoms." Martin says in The Corinthian Body, that being a passive partner - being penetrated - made one more vulnerable to spiritual corruption. This was true for either male and female. Being a passive male partner in sex was seen as feminine, but not being the active, penetrative partner. However, Paul still thought it was risky to be the top because one could become corrupted by the passive partner, so that's why he wanted to limit sexual conduct as much as possible and restrict it to (at most) monogamous marriage.

The Greek terms in 1 Corinthians 6:9 (echoed in the Pseudo-Pauline 1 Timothy 1:10) which are commonly translated as referring to homosexuality are malakos and arsenokoites (pl. malakoi and arsenokoitai) are discussed at some length in an online article by Dale Martin here: Arsenokoités and Malakos: Meanings and Consequence: History of Condemnation in the Church

I think those terms most likely refer to pederasty and male prostitution, not to homosexual relationships in general but to exploitative sexual behavior. I did a paper once on the word aresnokoites and I tracked down every single extant attestation of he word from antiquity and I'm reasonably sure it refers to pederasty, whether mercenary or otherwise.

This is still an open question, though, so you should do your own reading.

u/OtherWisdom · 8 pointsr/AskBibleScholars

> ...do we have any record of open same-sex relationships in 1st-century AD Judaea?

As far as I know we don't. Dale B. Martin has an interesting collection of essays entitled Sex and the Single Savior: Gender and Sexuality in Biblical Interpretation which may interest th OP.

u/Elite4ChampScarlet · 7 pointsr/askgaybros
  1. God loves you unconditionally and gives more grace than we could ever deserve.
  2. You aren't alone. I felt this exact way when I found out I was attracted to guys when I first started college.
  3. Don't give into pressure to choose one side or the other right away or even soon. This is a process of learning and growth and it probably sucks right now, but lean into the tension. Coming out / being 100% confident of your sexuality really soon is something that is, in my opinion, overhyped. Take your time.
  4. I don't know how much research you have done yet, but I would recuse yourself from your currently held position and take a stance of neutrality. It's important as a Christian to figure out why you believe what you believe. This can be hard to do, but see what the Side A (Affirming) crowd's arguments and experiences are. Take notes. Understand why they genuinely believe that they are not acting against God. See how and why they counter their opponents' arguments. Once you have fully done that (and by fully I mean take your time and do it for a few months), then look up the non-affirming (Side B, Y, and X) positions and do the same. Even if this doesn't help you come to a conclusion right away, this still is a healthy practice of understanding the why behind the what.
  5. This process of testing the foundations of your beliefs is/should probably extend to issues beyond LGBT inclusion in the church. One main pillar behind any LGBT/church argument is a stance on if Scripture is inerrant or not / what does it mean for something to be "inspired by God" / Should we hold to the same values as people 2,000 years ago (we've already expanded / moved on some from that)?
  6. Remember to take breaks from this. Be diligent, but don't let this pursuit of the truth consume you.
  7. Find non-judgmental friends who won't try to preach at you and can support you in your time of discernment and beyond.

    If you would like to PM me and ask more questions, I'm always happy to help people who were where I was 4 years ago.

    ​

    Here are a few good Affirming (A) resources to start out with:

    Torn: Rescuing the Gospel from the Gays-VS-Christians Debate by Justin Lee (A)

    God and the Gay Christian: The Biblical Case in Support of Same-Sex Relationships by Matthew Vines (A)

    Modern Kinship by David and Constantino Khalaf (A)

    Blue Babies Pink by Brett Trapp / B.T. Harmann (A)

    Bible, Gender, Sexuality: Reframing the Church's Debate on Same-Sex Relationships by James Brownson (A)

    Sex and the Single Savior: Gender and Sexuality in Biblical Interpretation by Dale Martin (A)

    Risking Grace, Loving Our Gay Family and Friends Like Jesus by Dave Jackson (A)

    ​

    I'm compiling a list of other good resources / bad ones (from all perspectives, not just ones I disagree with), so let me know if you're looking for something more specific.
u/allamericanprophet · 2 pointsr/AcademicBiblical

If you liked Dale Martin's class, you might also enjoy his book Sex and the Single Savior. It was interesting to me because both Dale and I are gay Christians. I thought he raised some interesting points.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0664230466/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1418422830&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SY200_QL40

u/anathemas · 2 pointsr/DebateAChristian

I think the best rebuttal (which you already touched on in your comments) is that there Ancient Near East had no concept of loving, equal relationship between same-sex couples.

Early Christians (including those with Jewish backgrounds) were all extremely Hellenized but would have also viewed Greek society as "worldly" and something that they needed to separate themselves from. So, since their only exposure to homosexuality was between an older man and a young boy for the purpose of material gain or idolatry.

>Some scholars locate its origin in pool initiation ritual, particularly rites of passage on Crete, where it was associated with entrance into military life and the religion of Zeus.[[5]](https://6trtt to ⅝6/wiki/Pederasty_in_ancient_Greece#cite_note-5). The wiki has a lot of good info.

I'd also recommend [Sex and the Single Savior](https://www.amazon.com/Sex-Single-Savior-Sexuality-Interpretation/dp/0664230466
by Dale Martin), who is the professor of the Yale NT course.

u/mhkwar56 · 1 pointr/AskBibleScholars

> IMO, statements like this could be used in a politically inappropriate manner.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by this? (Certainly, I see how it could be abused, but what are you suggesting practically? Many comments, even many biblical ones, are often applied inappropriately in a political setting, so I don't understand the point of your comment.)

> Also, there is a very interesting and well-informed earlier thread concerning this subject matter here.
>
> Furthermore, some may be interested in checking out Dale Allison's collection of essays entitled: Sex and the Single Savior: Gender and Sexuality in Biblical Interpretation.

Thank you for the referrals. Out of curiosity, though, did you mean them as a response to my comment or as general recommendations for all readers of the thread?