Reddit reviews Small Animal Clinical Nutrition

I downvoted. Maybe I don't fall under your umbrella of "bad" raw feeders, but I disagree that your education hasn't been skewed by commercial food producers.

In all likelihood, your text for veterinary nutrition was Small Animal Clinical Nutrition (SACN, 5th edition), a publication of the Mark Morris Institute.

The MMI is, in turn, the same company (Hills) that produces Science diet.


So you have the guys writing THE text for advising vets what to feed their clients making the same dang food- which includes "powdered cellulose" (i.e., sawdust- see page 4) for weight loss.

They have it stitched up, cradle to grave. Instead of suggesting that domestic cats and dogs eat a diet that is comprised primarily of meat and bone- including cats which are obligate carnivores- they promote the inclusion of large quantities of grain. This is bad on several levels, from dental to cancer. In our own dogs, we have had allergies disappear- allergies that caused our one dog to scratch its eyes so bad they'd bleed- without prednisone (which probably caused a massive fungal growth on his tongue).

The whole veterinary realm is ignoring how harmful insulin is; feed carbs (from grains), get an insulin release. Some tumor cells won't grow in cell culture unless they're fed insulin. While the refereed literature lacks proof of this assertion, I'm going out on a limb and saying that maybe dogs shouldn't be fed grain or carbs- certainly not in the concentrations provided in bagged kibble, anyway. Even a cursory examination of the differences in the digestive system should show this- the teeth are wrong; they lack the requisite number of stomachs, the gut flora are wrong- no omasum, no obomasum, and certainly nowhere near the volume of a ruminant- you name it.

Of course, as a vet, you probably agree with this (I hope you agree with this), and would suggest a grain-free kibble- which I would do, if I could afford it. As it is, our charges gobble their chicken necks, chicken backs, beef heart, liver, you name it. The allergies have gone away; our one hound with dermal hemangiosarcoma took 14 months for it to reoccur, and it was a tiny one both times- even the vet remarked how it was unusual how slow it was. The ocular cholesterol spots disappeared in our one hound. Their teeth are markedly improved- much less buildup.

I'm no slacker- I've gone to the primary literature to understand certain aspects of nutrition, read Nutrient Requirements of Dogs and Cats, weighed the evidence, and gone the raw food route. While some companion animal programs may have banned raw-fed pets, it's bullshit: many dogs (perhaps 30%) carry salmonella asymptomatically, raw fed or not. You know that. If salmonella and other pathogens were such a risk, then the dogs would be screened. Hell, salmonella is found in bagged kibble a little too often for comfort, don't you agree?

Cite: Human Salmonella infections linked to contaminated dry dog and cat food, 2006-2008.

Behravesh CB, Ferraro A, Deasy M 3rd, Dato V, Moll M, Sandt C, Rea NK, Rickert R, Marriott C, Warren K, Urdaneta V, Salehi E, Villamil E, Ayers T, Hoekstra RM, Austin JL, Ostroff S, Williams IT; Salmonella Schwarzengrund Outbreak Investigation Team.

Pediatrics. 2010 Sep;126(3):477-83. Epub 2010 Aug 9.

If that's your idea of a "safe" diet for pets, then dogs should be screened before used as therapy dogs, rather than just banning raw-fed animals: if it's that much of a risk, screen 'em all. Otherwise, it's just reactionary bullshit.

FWIW, I've worked in veterinary pathology, so I know the risks. My dogs get fed raw because the commercial diets are either too full of grain, or too expensive. Just my $0.02.

ETA: We keep sighthounds, and their feces were soft-serve no matter which bagged food we fed them. On raw meat and bone, the consistency and quality is vastly improved. I don't like having the trots, so I imagine it's the same with my pets; I'd also wager that much of the IBD seen in companion animals these days is a function of increased intestinal permeability, potentially caused by the growth of undesirable intestinal flora. Guess what happens when you feed starchy grains in large quantities to facultative carnivores like dogs?

These overpriced kibble manufacturers pander to several powerful emotions: The feeling of being in control of your dog's health, some sort of vague romanticism associated with words such as "natural", and the flattery of telling you that you are best qualified to know what's good for your dogs regardless of your actual qualifications. All three of them are delusions, but these manufacturers have figured out that they can make you pay a lot more than you need to just so that you can experience these powerful emotions again and again. It's clever marketing that has nothing to do with them caring about your dog's health.

As for my claims, I suggest getting a copy of "Small Animal Clinical Nutrition" if you're interested in the topic, which is actually a pretty good deal for a textbook. Beware though, it's quite a bit more complex than what you read on the internet.

See if you can find a copy of this book. I use it quite often when owners want to home cook. Chapter six looks at the healthy animal and has some suggestions for meals