Reddit reviews Spirit and the Flesh: Sexual Diversity in American Indian Culture

What I learned from a gay-studies prof back in college is that anthropologically, there are four ways that cultures have organized same-sex sexual relationships (at least among men—my prof was better-versed in gay studies than lesbian studies):

Homosexuality in the way most of us understand it—where, for example, a man who has always identified as male and fulfills all the expectations of the male gender role has sex only with other people who identify as male, in the same way that most men have sex with women—is a modern thing. The word “homosexual” was only coined in the late 19th century.

Role-specific sexual relations is what the ancient Greeks did. Adult male citizens screwed women, adolescent males, and slaves of both sexes. A man might prefer to have relations with a man rather than a woman, but he wouldn’t think of himself and his male lover to share a “sexuality”. Sex was a thing that people higher up the social hierarchy did to people lower down.

Age-graded sex is what a certain tribe in New Guinea did. IIRC, boys above a certain age were expected to fellate older boys (their culture had, shall we say, an idea that there was some kind of law of conservation of sperm); above a certain age, the young men did it to one another; after a man married and had his first child, he was expected to have sex exclusively with his wife.

A two-spirit (called “berdache” in older literature, but contemporary Native Americans consider this an offensive term) is someone who is physically male but takes on a female or androgynous gender role. Trans people are the nearest contemporary equivalent, but various cultures recognized and accepted this role before hormone treatments and sexual reassignment surgery were invented. This is what some Native American tribes had; there’s a 1992 book called Spirit and the Flesh: Sexual Diversity in American Indian Culture that discusses it.

Unrelated but you may be interested in one of my favorite books. spirit and the flesh

I encountered this book a long time ago and it really moved me.

https://www.amazon.com/Spirit-Flesh-Diversity-American-Culture/dp/0807046159/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1503726578&sr=8-4&keywords=spirit+and+the+flesh

Even the author of SPIRIT FLESH later changed his wording based on the PC culture of transgender outcry culture and political pandering. But his book was about gay men and lesbians in native culture. It wasn't until the mid 90s that all the native american books started bringing up gender and third sex nonsense. Before that, two spirited people were always known as gay or lesbians and trans-anything. Not third-gendered anything. Again, you're a victim of political correct revisionist history and you only know what you've been told in this era, where everything been scoured and scrubed to placate transgender people. https://www.amazon.com/Spirit-Flesh-Diversity-American-Culture/dp/0807046159/ref=sr_1_58?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1535910076&sr=1-58&keywords=two-spirit&refinements=p_n_feature_browse-bin%3A2656022011

Here you go.

Many 'backward' societies thru time have recognized the value of having some among them blessed with two spirits. We evolved along with the others because we advanced the species. Once, we were looked to for leadership and healing. Our societies have found us useful as teachers, child sitters, marriage counselors, entertainers, among much else. It was our culture's loss to erase us. So maybe, with the destruction of our 'advanced' civilization, our world will return to a more sensible ethos of interdependence.

To learn more this book is a good start.

https://smile.amazon.com/Spirit-Flesh-Diversity-American-Culture/dp/0807046159/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2SR2X28OXYWF6&keywords=the+spirit+and+the+flesh+sexual+diversity+in+american+indian+culture&qid=1574786549&sprefix=the+spriit+and+the+flesh%2Caps%2C174&sr=8-1

and while we're at it...https://www.amazon.com/Spirit-Flesh-Diversity-American-Culture/dp/0807046159/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1522683382&sr=1-1&keywords=spirit+and+the+flesh

The Spirit and the Flesh. You will learn about Native American culture, traditions, and, for a little extra kick, gender diversity.

<Citation Needed>

"the established standard for marriage"

Please link evidence of a culture, nation, or tribe that contradicts this.

I found the "two-spirits" being written about but couldn't find anything about marriage.

The definitive book on the subject, Spirit and the Flesh: Sexual Diversity in American Indian Culture doesn't hold homosexual marriage as the standard, but as a rare alternative.

I found multiple references to gay marriages in history, but nothing that would suggest they were anything other than outliers.

If you have contradictory evidence, please share it.

EDIT: Also, the author of the book is a homosexual pedophile who advocates man-boy relationships. Hardly unbiased.

http://www.lambdaliterary.org/features/06/21/the-strange-case-of-walter-lee-williams-renowned-gay-writer-on-fbis-ten-most-wanted-list-captured/

EDIT 2: Still no link to contradict her... sigh.