Reddit reviews The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine
We found 52 Reddit comments about The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine. Here are the top ones, ranked by their Reddit score.
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Reddit reviews The Ethnic Cleansing of PalestineWe found 52 Reddit comments about The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine. Here are the top ones, ranked by their Reddit score.
she's an ardent zionist, served in and actively defends and promotes the israeli "defense" forces, most notably vocally supporting the 2014 massacres in Gaza where israel killed over 2500 civilians, including over 500 children. for over 70 years israel has been administering a system of apartheid and ethnic cleansing in historic palestine. in 1948, when israel was founded, over 500 palestinian villages were ethnically cleansed, their populations either murdered or forced to flee as refugees. the villages were then either destroyed or renamed with hebrew names and populated by zionist settler families, mostly from europe. arab citizens in israel are second class citizens in many legal ways including where they can live, work, and travel.
the rest of palestine occupied illegally by israel and the palestinian population has zero political freedom, freedom of movement, or economic opportunities while simultaneously more and more of the land under military occupation is seized (again illegally according to several international conventions and laws) by settlers.
and it's not just in palestine, the israeli government is an ally of right wing forces around the world, including the trump administration. they were a key alley of the apartheid regime in south africa. they've sent guns to the neo-nazi azov battalion in ukraine.
israel, like the united states and canada, is completely indefensible. these states are founded on genocide maintained by apartheid. it's settler colonialism.
These people:
The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine
Starred Review. In his latest work, renowned Israeli author and academic Pappe (A History of Modern Palestine) does not mince words, doing Jimmy Carter one better (or worse, depending on one's point of view) by accusing Israel of ethnic cleansing and crimes against humanity beginning in the 1948 war for independence, and continuing through the present. Focusing primarily on Plan D (Dalet, in Hebrew), conceived on March 10, 1948, Pappe demonstrates how ethnic cleansing was not a circumstance of war, but rather a deliberate goal of combat for early Israeli military units led by David Ben-Gurion, whom Pappe labels the "architect of ethnic cleansing." The forced expulsion of 800,000 Palestinians between 1948-49, Pappe argues, was part of a long-standing Zionist plan to manufacture an ethnically pure Jewish state. Framing his argument with accepted international and UN definitions of ethnic cleansing, Pappe follows with an excruciatingly detailed account of Israeli military involvement in the demolition and depopulation of hundreds of villages, and the expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Arab inhabitants. An accessible, learned resource, this volume provides important inroads into the historical antecedents of today's conflict, but its conclusions will not be easy for everyone to stomach: Pappe argues that the ethnic cleansing of Palestine continues today, and calls for the unconditional return of all Palestinian refugees and an end to the Israeli occupation.
This image gives sort of the essential idea of what has happened. I'd advise the book "the ethnic cleansing of Palestine" by Israeli historian Ilan Pappe to start understanding the history.
For starters:
https://www.amazon.com/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851685553/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1538798550&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=the+ethnic+Cleansing+of+Palestine&dpPl=1&dpID=51nAwSlj65L&ref=plSrch
https://www.amazon.com/Idea-Israel-History-Power-Knowledge-ebook/dp/B00EGMBK4I/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1538798577&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=the+idea+of+israel
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004GXATG2/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1
Let me help you:
The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine by Ilan Pappe
From Publishers Weekly
Starred Review. "In his latest work, renowned Israeli author and academic Pappe (A History of Modern Palestine) does not mince words, doing Jimmy Carter one better (or worse, depending on one's point of view) by accusing Israel of ethnic cleansing and crimes against humanity beginning in the 1948 war for independence, and continuing through the present. Focusing primarily on Plan D (Dalet, in Hebrew), conceived on March 10, 1948, Pappe demonstrates how ethnic cleansing was not a circumstance of war, but rather a deliberate goal of combat for early Israeli military units led by David Ben-Gurion, whom Pappe labels the "architect of ethnic cleansing." The forced expulsion of 800,000 Palestinians between 1948-49, Pappe argues, was part of a long-standing Zionist plan to manufacture an ethnically pure Jewish state. Framing his argument with accepted international and UN definitions of ethnic cleansing, Pappe follows with an excruciatingly detailed account of Israeli military involvement in the demolition and depopulation of hundreds of villages, and the expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Arab inhabitants. An accessible, learned resource, this volume provides important inroads into the historical antecedents of today's conflict, but its conclusions will not be easy for everyone to stomach: Pappe argues that the ethnic cleansing of Palestine continues today, and calls for the unconditional return of all Palestinian refugees and an end to the Israeli occupation. Without question, Pappe's account will provoke ire from many readers; importantly, it will spark discussion as well."
> Definitely not apartheid please don't use that word flippantly
no... its apartheid.. when people like Desmond Tutu(someone who has actually lived under apartheid) call it apartheid, its apartheid. Im guess you aren't familiar with what is going on in the west bank...
As for the other thing, I recommend reading Noam Chomsky or Israeli Historians like Ilan Pappe and maybe look into the Nakba and specifically the Deir Yassin Massacre or the Lydda Death March.
Actually the ethnic cleansing process started 6 months before the war started. This is well documented by Israeli historians themsevles. Over half the Palestinians were ethnically cleansed and many thousands more were murdered before a single arab army had stepped foot in the region.
Technically it wasn't a "newly formed Israeli army" as you claim because Israel had not been founded during most of the ethnic cleansing. The Zionist forces included trained Jewish militias and many radical Jewish terrorist groups such as the Irgun and Stern Gang, who committed countless massacres against small Palestinian villages, causing many Palestinians to flee in fear of an attack.
I highly recommend you read The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine by Ilan Pappe. http://www.amazon.com/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851685553/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1407139475&sr=8-1&keywords=the+ethnic+cleansing+of+palestine
I read every page back to back; it was a truly horrific mass expulsion that ended centuries of coexistence.
Here's an excellent publication by an Israeli professor, documenting Israel's mass slaughters of Palestinian villages and forced expulsion from their territory.
Highly recommend you read it. Let me know what you think!
https://www.amazon.com/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851685553
OP you should do a Bit of reading as to the Origins of the conflict.
might I suggest you familiarize yourself with The Nakba
and other events surrounding it like the Lydda Death March
and the Deir Yassin massacre
here is good book from Noam Chomsky on the matter of the conflict.
Gaza in Crisis: Reflections on Israel's War against the Palestinians
Perhaps read About The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine, by Israeli historian Page semi-protected
Ilan Pappé
>Worked with:Robert Faurisson and Alison Weir
Defending the right of someone to free speech is not the same as condoning their opinion.
>Demonizes Israel
You mean "criticizes" Israel
>doesn't discuss the conflict in an even-handed manner.
One, you have not given an example on how he "doesn't discuss the conflict in an even-handed manner". Second, in a conflict that was started based on the Systematic Ethnic Cleansing of one side is very hard to be "even-handed":https://www.amazon.ca/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851685553/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1457747715&sr=8-1&keywords=ethnic+cleansing+of+palestine
>"Denies anti-Semitism is a major issue in the world today."
1)Citation needed
2)"Major Issue" compared to...?
3) Assuming the presumption of question is correct, What are the main causes of it?
You can always google this stuff, it's pretty common
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/07/nelson-mandela-grandson-slams-israeli-apartheid-190707053146087.html
​
​
and with regards to ethnic cleansing by Israel one of Israel's top archivists made a book an it because there was just so much of it but never reported by main stream
article about ethnic cleansing by Israel
https://www.globalresearch.ca/israels-scheme-bury-nakba/5683236
book
https://www.amazon.ca/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851685553
What do you know about 1948? Did you live through it? Did your immediate family get affected by it? My family was and would never wish it upon anyone.
Being locked up in rooms in your own house by [Haganah militia] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_political_violence) (terrorists, led by the likes of Tsipi Livni's father) watching your family members executed in front of you and being forced to drink your own piss while watching your aunt get raped.
Tell me kind sir what the living f*ck do you know about 1948? Please enlighten me.
Educate yourself and read Ilan Pappe's Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine please.
All part of the Israeli land grab. Make the place as unlivable as possible, then after the people leave, Israel can claim they left on their own and build Jewish settlements on it. It's not the first time Israel has done it.
>With regard to the Palestinian diaspora, most left on their own accord
Read this..
http://www.amazon.com/Palestinian-Refugee-Problem-1947-1949-Cambridge/dp/0521338891
and this
http://www.amazon.com/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851685553/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1278631599&sr=1-1
im using the benny morris / ilan pappe definition. ilan pappe even wrote a book with that title: https://www.amazon.com/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851685553
benny morris wrote a book comprised almost entirely from zionist archival material where he describes the ethnic cleansing in detail, called The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem Revisited (2004)
So called genocide and ethnic cleansing? Dude, acts of Genocide, ethnic cleansing and terrorism began literally a couple of years of the second world war ending. That's pretty fucked up don't you think? It's going today as well. Villages being destroyed and homes being bulldozed forcing people out of their homes and land is ethnic cleansing. Shooting people's babies out of their hands and using white phosphorus to burn people on the streets is Genocide. People pulling up chairs to watch it like a fireworks show are fucking sick in the head. This is what you get from the terrorist state of Israel for many decades now and still ongoing.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/new-deputy-defense-minister-called-palestinians-animals/
Also look at the language. The Nazis used to call Jews Vermin, Zionists calling the Palestinians animals or wild beasts or snakes like your bitch of a 'justice' minister. They are all itching for the extermination of these people they can't even see as humans. If you can get to that level of hate then it's easy to murder them because they aren't seen as human.
Also you want me to post up the charred bodies from the white phosphorus chemical attack? You sure this is the place to do it? Just type in Israel white phosphorus attack on Gaza and you will see the images. Fool, it's clear examples of genocide get your head out of your ass!
Here's a good book for you to read.
The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine
https://www.amazon.com/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851685553
Iran's democracy was formed in 1906 in a popular pro-West Constitutional Revolution led by actual freedom fighters againt colonialists; Israel was officially "created" by the colonialists in 1948 on the smoldering heap of Palestinians dead bodies
https://www.haaretz.com/1.5262454
https://www.amazon.com/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851685553
Israel is a "Democracy" that has racially segregated schools and laws that prohibit intermarriage, among other things that would not be tolerated in any actual democracy
https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/.premium-could-you-marry-in-israel-1.5250455
https://www.thedailybeast.com/israels-most-liberal-city-introduces-racially-segregated-kindergartens
And government officials who shout about the Superior Jewish Race - literally
https://shadowproof.com/2012/06/03/israeli-interior-minister-this-country-belongs-to-us-the-white-man/
https://www.newsweek.com/jews-are-smartest-race-world-and-superior-humans-israeli-lawmaker-claims-977896
That's why the Gaza Strip today has a population of 1.8 million people, about as high a population density as Hong Kong, out of which 1.6 million are refugees who were forced there after Israel took their lands
All Israel is doing is creating thousands of new angry, raging Muslims (and many non-Muslims too including me and many Europeans). The seeds for vengeance are being sown today. Ten years from now when Americans have forgotten about this massacre, Americans will be asking "Why do the Muslim world hate Jews so much to kill thousands of them?" Because the hatred for Jews today started with this:
The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine
The renowned Israeli historian revisits the formative period of the State of Israel. Between 1947 and 1949, over 400 Palestinian villages were deliberately destroyed, civilians were massacred, and around a million men, women, and children were expelled from their homes at gunpoint. Denied for almost six decades, had it happened today it could only have been called "ethnic cleansing".
Decisively debunking the myth that the Palestinian population left of their own accord in the course of this war, Ilan Pappe offers impressive archival evidence to demonstrate that, from its very inception, a central plank in Israel’s founding ideology was the forcible removal of the indigenous population. Indispensable for anyone interested in the Middle East.
"In his latest work, renowned Israeli author and academic Pappe (A History of Modern Palestine) does not mince words, doing Jimmy Carter one better (or worse, depending on one's point of view) by accusing Israel of ethnic cleansing and crimes against humanity beginning in the 1948 war for independence, and continuing through the present. Focusing primarily on Plan D (Dalet, in Hebrew), conceived on March 10, 1948, Pappe demonstrates how ethnic cleansing was not a circumstance of war, but rather a deliberate goal of combat for early Israeli military units led by David Ben-Gurion, whom Pappe labels the "architect of ethnic cleansing." The forced expulsion of 800,000 Palestinians between 1948-49, Pappe argues, was part of a long-standing Zionist plan to manufacture an ethnically pure Jewish state. Framing his argument with accepted international and UN definitions of ethnic cleansing, Pappe follows with an excruciatingly detailed account of Israeli military involvement in the demolition and depopulation of hundreds of villages, and the expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Arab inhabitants. An accessible, learned resource, this volume provides important inroads into the historical antecedents of today's conflict, but its conclusions will not be easy for everyone to stomach: Pappe argues that the ethnic cleansing of Palestine continues today, and calls for the unconditional return of all Palestinian refugees and an end to the Israeli occupation."
Of course!
What prompted my support of Palestine was the way my father was treated when visiting for a business trip.
He was a businessman for a large American company a few years back, and the one of the best in their history. He was invited by a prestigious Israeli institution to negotiate a sale.
Before that, he was in favor of a two state solution, and generally supported Palestine. He was then detained at the airport for eleven hours, had all his belongings seized, was interrogated and verbally harassed by Israeli officers. This was all because he was Muslim.
On his trip he met many Palestinians and talked to them about their struggles, and it really opened his eyes. Many of them still have the keys to their now demolished homes.
The history of the state of Israel is one of the most complicated and hard to navigate, so it’s understandable that many people have a hard time forming an opinion.
Ilan Pappe, an Israeli-Jewish historian, wrote a book called The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine , which is very insightful in explaining the complex history of the region, which I’d get into, but is too long and difficult to condense into a reddit post.
This Video is very powerful and pretty non-partisan, and more accessible than the book I linked above.
I’m glad you asked, and I hope you can inform an educated opinion on the issue!
>The state of Israel was established by a decision of the UN from November 29th, 1947. That's the legal warrant.
It was only a non-binding recommendation. It didn't grant the zionist party the authority to unilaterally implement the partition plan. The execution of the plan could only be justified if both parties consented to it. The Palestinians rejected it understandably because it was not equitable towards them. By establishing Israel in the face of Arab and Palestinian rejection, the Zionist committed an egregious act of war.
>Access to Jordan's only seaport of Aqaba and to Israel's only Indian Ocean seaport of Eilat is contingent upon passage through the Gulf of Aqaba, giving the Straits of Tiran strategic importance. Egypt's blockade of the Straits to Israeli ships and ships bound for Israel in 1956 and again in 1967 was a catalyst to the Suez Crisis in 1956 and the Six-Day War in 1967.
I understand but none of that can be reasonably interpreted as an act of war. In fact a good case can be made that those Egyptian actions were done in the effort to avoid war. The fact remains Israel started the hostilities in both 1956 (along with France and UK) and 1967. The brute facts can lead to no other conclusion
>There goes your justification for Hamas violence against Israel.
What? I support the Palestinian struggle against Israel as they are righteously fighting for freedom, liberty, justice and self-determination.
>Under the Alon plan, the territories that Israel grabbed in its war of defense in 1967 would have been returned in return for full peace. The Arabs rejected that plan. They could've gotten the territories back pretty much for free, but they chose to fight a war, and lost.
Wikipedia describes it as a plan to “to implement the "Jordanian option" to the Palestinian refugee problem (also known as "Jordan is Palestine").” That is unacceptable. You hold a strange definition of “free” here.
>No. I justify the invasion because towns all across Israel's northern border were under constant Katyusha fire. The assassination attempt in the UK was just the last straw. Moreover, I don't justify the way the war turned out. It was presented falsely to the Israeli government and fought under false pretenses. I don't deny that. This is a case of a good cause poorly executed.
Well, that admission is commendable but one has to consider the Katyusha fire in the context of the Palestinian refuge crisis and the illegal occupation. It is not honest or fair to leave this out of the picture whenever discussing Palestinian (and Arab) hostility and aggression against Israel.
>I actually ran into an account of these refugee camps from 1961. Apparently not too squalid.
Are you arguing that since some of their camps aren't that bad (and this is just one eye witness account of dubious reliability, since the American media has always been extremely partial towards Israel) it is unreasonable for the Pals to hold ill-will towards those who expelled them from their ancestral homes?
>It's true that Israel expelled some Palestinians. However, most of them ran away so as not to get in the way of the "soon to be victorious" advancing Arab armies, without having seen an Israeli. They were planning to return shortly.
That is at best groundless conjecture and at worst outright fabricated propaganda. Most of the evidence indicates the Pals were expelled in a systematic campaign of terrorism and ethnic cleansing. They were in fact strictly told by the Arab governments to stay put and not leave their homes under any circumstances. This is how wikipedia describes the effect of the Dei Yassin massacre, for example:
> Contemporary reports, originating apparently from a commanding officer in Jerusalem of one of the irregular forces involved (the Irgun), Mordechai Ra'anan[6], gave an initial estimate of 254 killed.[7] The size of the figure had a considerable impact on the conflict in creating panic and became a major cause of the 1948 Palestinian exodus.[7][8]
This book provides a good historical account of the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians: http://www.amazon.com/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851685553/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1239164330&sr=1-1
>There are ways to rectify these grievances other than allowing them to return. In fact, most refugee crises don't end with the refugees returning home. They end with the refugees being settled in the countries that gave them refuge.
Even if that is true (which I have doubts about) the moral and just solution would be to allow the Palestinian refugees back to their ancestral homes. But I learned a long time ago that moral considerations doesn't figure much in the thoughts of the zionist.
>I didn't claim that it justifies "ethnic cleansing" of anybody. I claim that it justifies not allowing the Palestinian refugees to return.
You are arguing that the the direct consequences of the ethnic cleansing of Palestine should be maintained. There is really not much difference between that and justifying and defending ethnic cleansing.
> It is as necessary to address the grievances of Jewish refugees from Arab states as it is to address the grievances of Arab refugees from pre-1948 Palestine. My point was that there is more than one way to address these grievances.
Those grievances must be addressed in a just and equitable manner for the conflict to be truly resolved. Your (non) solutions will not get us there. Sorry to tell you that. Further the Mizrahim are not stateless refugees any more. The situation is not similar at all any more.
>I'm pleasantly surprised to find someone who has opposing views to mine, and is able to discuss them by addressing my claims and without reverting to insults.
De nada.
You should read "The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine" by Ilan Pappe
It's very enlightening. I haven't finished it yet, I keep giving my copy away.
Yawn take this sad and wornout hasbara revisionism elsewhere, even Israeli historians admit to the genocide and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians
https://www.amazon.com/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851685553
https://www.haaretz.com/1.5262454
https://www.amazon.com/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851685553
It is indeed a complex situation, but these would be a good start:
Earlier history:
For more contextual books, I would recommend:
http://www.amazon.com/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851685553
In no particular order:
http://www.amazon.com/Beirut-Jerusalem-Thomas-L-Friedman/dp/1250015499
http://www.amazon.com/Lawrence-Arabia-Deceit-Imperial-Making-ebook/dp/B00BH0VSPI/ref=zg_bs_4995_5
http://www.amazon.com/My-Promised-Land-Triumph-Tragedy-ebook/dp/B009QJMXI8/ref=zg_bs_4995_4
http://www.amazon.com/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851685553/ref=zg_bs_4995_10
http://www.amazon.com/Arabic-Thought-Liberal-Age-1798-1939/dp/0521274230/ref=cm_lmf_tit_3
http://www.amazon.com/History-Arab-Peoples-Albert-Hourani/dp/0446393924/ref=cm_lmf_tit_4
http://www.amazon.com/Women-Gender-Islam-Historical-Modern/dp/0300055838/ref=cm_lmf_tit_9
http://www.amazon.com/Emergence-Modern-Studies-Eastern-History/dp/0195134605/ref=cm_lmf_tit_10
http://www.amazon.com/Peace-End-All-Ottoman-Creation/dp/0805068848/ref=cm_lmf_tit_17
As a non-Muslim, non-Jew, non-Arab, non-Semite, American, and having read these (yay strict immigrant parents!) and some other histories, as well as having had the attacks of 9/11 give me a neurosis about following the news in the Middle East/Central/South Asia as regards potential US involvement and issues:
A lot feels familiar to me, some of it even seems like stuff I know a good deal about, and a few things about "The Middle East" which is a massively rich and complex sociopolitical place and slice of humanity are things I'd consider myself very well read on.
And I don't know shit.
I can tell you as a native born American and US voter what I think my country's policies (in a limited, broad strokes sense) should be - - - but beyond that, there's very little I've ever seen as conclusive and firm coming from anyone who by dint of identity didn't have 'skin in the game' .
The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine
In his latest work, renowned Israeli author and academic Pappe (A History of Modern Palestine) does not mince words, doing Jimmy Carter one better (or worse, depending on one's point of view) by accusing Israel of ethnic cleansing and crimes against humanity beginning in the 1948 war for independence, and continuing through the present. Focusing primarily on Plan D (Dalet, in Hebrew), conceived on March 10, 1948, Pappe demonstrates how ethnic cleansing was not a circumstance of war, but rather a deliberate goal of combat for early Israeli military units led by David Ben-Gurion, whom Pappe labels the "architect of ethnic cleansing." The forced expulsion of 800,000 Palestinians between 1948-49, Pappe argues, was part of a long-standing Zionist plan to manufacture an ethnically pure Jewish state. Framing his argument with accepted international and UN definitions of ethnic cleansing, Pappe follows with an excruciatingly detailed account of Israeli military involvement in the demolition and depopulation of hundreds of villages, and the expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Arab inhabitants. An accessible, learned resource, this volume provides important inroads into the historical antecedents of today's conflict, but its conclusions will not be easy for everyone to stomach: Pappe argues that the ethnic cleansing of Palestine continues today, and calls for the unconditional return of all Palestinian refugees and an end to the Israeli occupation. Without question, Pappe's account will provoke ire from many readers; importantly, it will spark discussion as well.
Wikipedia. Give me a fucking break. Try reading some books.
Here are some suggestions.
http://www.amazon.com/Birth-Israel-Myths-Realities/dp/0679720987/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257019998&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851685553/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257020162&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/Fateful-Triangle-Palestinians-Updated-Classics/dp/0896086011
http://www.amazon.com/Image-Reality-Israel-Palestine-Conflict-Revised/dp/1859844421/ref=pd_sim_b_1
http://www.amazon.com/Question-Palestine-Edward-W-Said/dp/0679739882/ref=pd_sim_b_2
Oh please! Why pretend to be such a fool? Surely you are not such a fool? Oh wait, you are actually a troll, I see, after all.
Here is what I said: the Zionists had been planning for decades to evict the non-Jews from Palestine, and in 1948 were on the verge of succeeding in that endeavour. That helps explain the context of the Arab state response in 1948, which was -- rather belatedly and in a half-hearted manner -- to attack the Zionists. Palestinians as well as their supporters had and have every right to resist the Palestinians' disposession, through violent means if necessary, no different from any other case of ethnic cleansing. You, as a Jewish supremacist, are unable to look at the historical facts in their clear light, because they must really make you uncomfortable. If you dare to, see The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine which I can assure you explains very clearly, in terms even you could understand, the extent to which the Zionists planned to dispossess the Palestinians.
Oh but wait. I keep forgetting. I am speaking to a troll!
tablet mag.com??
Ilan Pappe - The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine
4.5 stars on 298 reviews.
>Description
Product Description
Renowned Israeli historian, Ilan Pappe's groundbreaking book revisits the formation of the State of Israel. Between 1947 and 1949, over 400 Palestinian villages were deliberately destroyed, civilians were massacred and around a million men, women, and children were expelled from their homes at gunpoint.
Denied for almost six decades, had it happened today it could only have been called "ethnic cleansing". Decisively debunking the myth that the Palestinian population left of their own accord in the course of this war, Ilan Pappe offers impressive archival evidence to demonstrate that, from its very inception, a central plank in Israel’s founding ideology was the forcible removal of the indigenous population. Indispensable for anyone interested in the current crisis in the Middle East.
From Publishers Weekly
Starred Review. In his latest work, renowned Israeli author and academic Pappe (A History of Modern Palestine) does not mince words, doing Jimmy Carter one better (or worse, depending on one's point of view) by accusing Israel of ethnic cleansing and crimes against humanity beginning in the 1948 war for independence, and continuing through the present. Focusing primarily on Plan D (Dalet, in Hebrew), conceived on March 10, 1948, Pappe demonstrates how ethnic cleansing was not a circumstance of war, but rather a deliberate goal of combat for early Israeli military units led by David Ben-Gurion, whom Pappe labels the "architect of ethnic cleansing." The forced expulsion of 800,000 Palestinians between 1948-49, Pappe argues, was part of a long-standing Zionist plan to manufacture an ethnically pure Jewish state. Framing his argument with accepted international and UN definitions of ethnic cleansing, Pappe follows with an excruciatingly detailed account of Israeli military involvement in the demolition and depopulation of hundreds of villages, and the expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Arab inhabitants. An accessible, learned resource, this volume provides important inroads into the historical antecedents of today's conflict, but its conclusions will not be easy for everyone to stomach: Pappe argues that the ethnic cleansing of Palestine continues today, and calls for the unconditional return of all Palestinian refugees and an end to the Israeli occupation. Without question, Pappe's account will provoke ire from many readers; importantly, it will spark discussion as well.
https://www.amazon.com/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851685553
"The Arabs" -- lol
so Palestinian villagers could be ethnically cleansed because heck they're all just Arabs like the Jordanian and Egyptian military forces?
FYI the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians started before the 1948 war, as Israeli historians point out, http://www.amazon.com/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851685553
The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine by Ilan Pappe
In his latest work, renowned Israeli author and academic Pappe (A History of Modern Palestine) does not mince words, doing Jimmy Carter one better (or worse, depending on one's point of view) by accusing Israel of ethnic cleansing and crimes against humanity beginning in the 1948 war for independence, and continuing through the present. Focusing primarily on Plan D (Dalet, in Hebrew), conceived on March 10, 1948, Pappe demonstrates how ethnic cleansing was not a circumstance of war, but rather a deliberate goal of combat for early Israeli military units led by David Ben-Gurion, whom Pappe labels the "architect of ethnic cleansing." The forced expulsion of 800,000 Palestinians between 1948-49, Pappe argues, was part of a long-standing Zionist plan to manufacture an ethnically pure Jewish state. Framing his argument with accepted international and UN definitions of ethnic cleansing, Pappe follows with an excruciatingly detailed account of Israeli military involvement in the demolition and depopulation of hundreds of villages, and the expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Arab inhabitants.
Here, read a book.
https://www.amazon.com/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851685553
Well, I just did. Counter it, but be specific.
I’m clearly refering to ”Zionsts” = rightwing Zionists/NeoCons. No racism. No antisemitism.
I have never read anything at the ”electronicintifada”, no. I have among other things read these:
Not a trace of ”electronicintifada”.
Exactly, none. Trying to get back their stolen land is not ”genocidal wars”. It is a legitimate struggle for freedom and independence in their own country within the borders mandated by the United Nations since 1947.
Your arguments and alleged ”facts” are strange indeed.
”Well, we stole their land because they attacked us when we stole their land”
Eh ... ?
You really want a source for the claim that the state of Israel was established by a majority of European emigres for the purpose of establishing a demographic majority of European emigres? OK, see inter alia.
In a debate or a discussion, it is not in good manner to require a source for something that is not reasonably controversial. It is likewise not subject to reasonable controversy that the United States is a demographic majority of people who settled from Europe and their direct descendants.
Actually modern Israeli historians have shown that Israel refused and rejected multiple peace offers and sought war in order to expand territory. And the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians started **before** the 1948 war, when for example the people of Jaffa and Haifa were rounded up in the local marketplace, shelled with mortar fire, and literally forced into the sea where the British Navy pickedup the survivor and took them to refugee camps --
The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine by Ilan Pappe
> is a concept of international law.
It seems that it is you who is mistaken. Sovereignty since the dawn of time has been about being able to militarily hold the land you own. There was a time without international law.. would you have me believe there was also no sovereignty by your logic?
> no nation gets to pick and chose what laws it is subject to.
Who is we? The United States acting as a sovereign nation enacting its own foreign policy goals of eliminating enemies and threats? One need only look at North Korea, China, Yemen, Somalia, Myanmar (this one especially) to see that sovereign states in fact do choose what laws they are subject to.
>What really went on, https://www.amazon.com/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851685553
Thanks for the recommendation I'll definitely pick it up.
It is genocide
Source (Israeli author) http://www.amazon.com/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851685553
> You don't say. I, like most scholars, have higher standards of evidence.
what exactly are you a scholar of?
> Utterly false as i have already explained. Every single Arab Israeli war was instigated and started by Israel.
Just because you believe it doesn't make it so. I explained how your explanation is utterly false.
> Please... They were driven out in a systematic campaign of ethnic cleansing. Go read this book, asstard - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851685553
Do me a favor! Are you seriously quoting Ilan Pappe to me? A "historian" discredited by his own faculty, one of the most left-leaning faculties of history in Israel??
You can do better than that!
> What difference does that make? Its their ancestral lands and they have a right to self-determination, according to your reasoning.
Do you honestly see no difference between establishing a state where none exists and establishing one where another one exists?
> Considered yourself a fucktard.
Insults again. Stay classy!
"The man who does not do his own thinking is a slave, and is a traitor to himself and too his fellow man."
— Robert G. Ingersoll c. 1924
Time to stop taking your history lessons via Fox News and press releases from the IDF PR department!
Read this book by a Jewish Israeli historian: Ilan Pappe. He is a professor with the College of Social Sciences and International Studies at the University of Exeter in the United Kingdom, director of the university's European Centre for Palestine Studies, and co-director of the Exeter Centre for Ethno-Political Studies.
It's titled: "The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine".
Watch him talk here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8Tzf1YKE2w
Read the book:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851685553
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ethnic_Cleansing_of_Palestine
You can watch Palestinian homes being demolished here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bca4JTipV4U
Plenty more where that came from!
Peace! (unless you are trying to bulldoze my house, and destroy my olive trees - it which case I will kill you to defend myself and my family. Not unreasonable eh?)
Removed comment posted by /u/HitlerWasASensitiveM at 07/25/14 02:36:02:
> TO STEAL MORE LAND. You should realize that Israel feel they have the right to land that includes Jordan and further East. And with the help of the U.S., they are going to take it.
>
> The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine
>
> "In his latest work, renowned Israeli author and academic Pappe (A History of Modern Palestine) does not mince words, doing Jimmy Carter one better (or worse, depending on one's point of view) by accusing Israel of ethnic cleansing and crimes against humanity beginning in the 1948 war for independence, and continuing through the present. Focusing primarily on Plan D (Dalet, in Hebrew), conceived on March 10, 1948, Pappe demonstrates how ethnic cleansing was not a circumstance of war, but rather a deliberate goal of combat for early Israeli military units led by David Ben-Gurion, whom Pappe labels the "architect of ethnic cleansing." The forced expulsion of 800,000 Palestinians between 1948-49, Pappe argues, was part of a long-standing Zionist plan to manufacture an ethnically pure Jewish state. Framing his argument with accepted international and UN definitions of ethnic cleansing, Pappe follows with an excruciatingly detailed account of Israeli military involvement in the demolition and depopulation of hundreds of villages, and the expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Arab inhabitants. An accessible, learned resource, this volume provides important inroads into the historical antecedents of today's conflict, but its conclusions will not be easy for everyone to stomach: Pappe argues that the ethnic cleansing of Palestine continues today, and calls for the unconditional return of all Palestinian refugees and an end to the Israeli occupation."
... in response to comment posted by /u/UrbanFoodGrower at 07/24/14 16:19:09:
> >Israel was given land in 1948 to establish a country, they pushed past the established borders and displaced millions of Palestinians who were already there.
>
> Why did Israel expand their borders? Could it have anything to do with the multiple Arab countries surrounding them attacking all at once?
Well I guess if you're interested you could be a sea dog and get the book called "The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine" by Ilan Pappe.
Synopsis
>The renowned Israeli historian revisits the formative period of the State of Israel. Between 1947 and 1949, over 400 Palestinian villages were deliberately destroyed, civilians were massacred, and around a million men, women, and children were expelled from their homes at gunpoint. Denied for almost six decades, had it happened today it could only have been called "ethnic cleansing".
>Decisively debunking the myth that the Palestinian population left of their own accord in the course of this war, Ilan Pappe offers impressive archival evidence to demonstrate that, from its very inception, a central plank in Israel’s founding ideology was the forcible removal of the indigenous population. Indispensable for anyone interested in the Middle East.
A simpler way would be to argue with a internet picture. This follows the same logic as your point I agreed upon (prison not shrinking from 2005) cause it just shows israeli/palestinian land but it's a disservice.
Nonsense, and nobody said facts matter less than feelings. It is a FACT that Palestnians have been ethnically-cleansed by Israel. Note that not ONE jew is sent to refugee camps, only Palestinians are, and not ONE Palestinian is granted an automatic "Right of return" from anywhere in the world to enjoy state-subsidized housing in settlements in Israel, only Jews are -- do you think that's a coincidence?
Anyway, first of all Jews have and had been in the Middle East for a long time before Israel's creation, they're well integrated in the rest of the world too, and if anything it is Israel itself that is placing "the jews" in danger
Second, there is no "The Jews", it is a manufactured identity
https://www.amazon.com/Invention-Jewish-People-Shlomo-Sand/dp/1844676234
https://www.amazon.com/Wandering-Who-Gilad-Atzmon/dp/1846948754
Anyway, why should the Palestinians have to pay for Europe's antisemitism
https://www.amazon.com/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851685553
http://www.amazon.com/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851685553
Yes. Perhaps you should read a book.
The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine
"In his latest work, renowned Israeli author and academic Pappe (A History of Modern Palestine) does not mince words, doing Jimmy Carter one better (or worse, depending on one's point of view) by accusing Israel of ethnic cleansing and crimes against humanity beginning in the 1948 war for independence, and continuing through the present. Focusing primarily on Plan D (Dalet, in Hebrew), conceived on March 10, 1948, Pappe demonstrates how ethnic cleansing was not a circumstance of war, but rather a deliberate goal of combat for early Israeli military units led by David Ben-Gurion, whom Pappe labels the "architect of ethnic cleansing." The forced expulsion of 800,000 Palestinians between 1948-49, Pappe argues, was part of a long-standing Zionist plan to manufacture an ethnically pure Jewish state. Framing his argument with accepted international and UN definitions of ethnic cleansing, Pappe follows with an excruciatingly detailed account of Israeli military involvement in the demolition and depopulation of hundreds of villages, and the expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Arab inhabitants. An accessible, learned resource, this volume provides important inroads into the historical antecedents of today's conflict, but its conclusions will not be easy for everyone to stomach: Pappe argues that the ethnic cleansing of Palestine continues today, and calls for the unconditional return of all Palestinian refugees and an end to the Israeli occupation. Without question, Pappe's account will provoke ire from many readers; importantly, it will spark discussion as well."
Here's a book written by an Israeli historian that'll help you comprehend what I'm trying to explain. http://www.amazon.com/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851685553
podcast
book
Ethnic cleansing and forced removal qualifies as Genocide, amigo. Forcing palestinians out of the west bank and maintaining gaza as an open air prison, frequently carped bombed on the basis of their ethnicity is objectively genocide by every single international standard for the word.
Israel controls the power and water for gaza and routinely cuts the power supply out of spite and hatred. They've systematically eliminated homes in the west bank and enforced illegal settlements, burned down olive crops and stationed IDF soldiers to defend their settlers on stolen land.
Maybe read a book or two before you try to "Facts and logic" someone who is certainly more read and studied on the subject than you.
https://ccrjustice.org/genocide-palestinian-people-international-law-and-human-rights-perspective
https://www.euppublishing.com/doi/abs/10.3366/hlps.2017.0151?journalCode=hlps
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killings_and_massacres_during_the_1948_Palestine_war
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-genocide-scholar-blasts-israel-s-racist-teaching-of-the-holocaust-1.5396158
https://www.amazon.com/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851685553
The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine: "In his latest work, renowned Israeli author and academic Pappe (A History of Modern Palestine) does not mince words, doing Jimmy Carter one better (or worse, depending on one's point of view) by accusing Israel of ethnic cleansing and crimes against humanity beginning in the 1948 war for independence, and continuing through the present. Focusing primarily on Plan D (Dalet, in Hebrew), conceived on March 10, 1948, Pappe demonstrates how ethnic cleansing was not a circumstance of war, but rather a deliberate goal of combat for early Israeli military units led by David Ben-Gurion, whom Pappe labels the "architect of ethnic cleansing." The forced expulsion of 800,000 Palestinians between 1948-49, Pappe argues, was part of a long-standing Zionist plan to manufacture an ethnically pure Jewish state."
> They weren't ethnically cleansed from Israel either no matter how many times you repeat it.
Actually they were, try reading a little about it:
https://www.amazon.com/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851685553/ref=sr_1_1
>Also you really expect them to just walk into Israel without disturbance?
How were the people shot in the back trying to walk into Israel?