Reddit reviews The Oxford Introduction to Proto-Indo-European and the Proto-Indo-European World (Oxford Linguistics)

FUN FACTS FROM MYTH


As always remember that apparently myth can reveal spoilers so take care. Now Pat mentioned root words today once so what better episode to talk about how


NORSE AND GREEK MYTHOLOGY ARE ACTUALLY THE SAME THING: That’s right. From a certain point of view, Kratos is just fighting the same gods all over again. See, practically all European languages share a common root, with Indian languages. This can be seen by comparing languages, finding similarities, and looking at likely/common sound changes. Modern linguistics can do this so well that there are even theoretical reconstructions of this language. As such, people also have noticed similarities between the names of gods in these regions, the fact that they tend to be polytheistic and share the same roles… and people realise that of course these too share a common root in a primal religion we have no actual preserved texts from. It’s actually where my username comes from!

This religion’s chief deity was Dyēus Phter, the Sky Father. In Greek mythology, this is obviously Zeus, and in Norse mythology, this became Tyr, via the Germanic Tiwaz. This leads to theories that Tyr actually used to be the head of the Norse pantheon, before worship of the more popular Odin and Thor pushed him out to a more minor role.

Another important figure was Perkwunos, the Striker. This was most likely a god of thunder and the oak, and incarnates in Norse mythology, of course, as Thor. In Greek mythology, it’s likely that this god was absorbed into Zeus, as the word κεραυνός, related to Zeus as one of his titles IIRC, also descends etymologically from the same root.

Other common threads include the idea of a Chaoskampf that symbolically represented day to day life, and “dragons” who are fought by great heroes (Thor vs Jormungandr, Hercules vs Hydra, etc.)

There is a notable exception amongst the major gods to this rule however. Odin has no apparent attestation in other Proto-Indo-European religions, at least not linguistically as a god. He seems to stand alone. However, he does have an etymological history. Odin’s name comes from the PIE word of inspiration as far as we can see, and as such is possibly the deification of inspiration, prophecy and magic itself. This is very unique amongst Proto-Indo-European pantheon heads.

NORNIR: Speaking of comparative mythology, these are the Norse equivalent of the Greek Fates, likely also from a common source in PIE religion. They are goddesses that control the destiny of not only men, but the gods themselves, and three Jotunn (Urdr, Verdandy and Skuld) are the most important of them, and live in a well beneath the roots of Yggdrasil. In Norse mythology, fate plays an impossibly important role. No man, Jotunnor god can avoid their fate, and all roads lead inevitably to Ragnarok. There are lesser Norns, however, ruling over less important things.

GROA: I know a Jotunn from the Eddas by the name of Groa. She is legitimately a volva, a seeress, and a practitionar of Seidr, and thus it would make sense for her to see visions of the future. However... I don't remember anything in the story about Odin killing her for a book of prophecy. Unless someone can correct me on this, this seems to be something the game made up for its own story.

Groa is known for trying to work a healing spell on Thor after his fight with Hrungnir, yet as she worked Thor told her tales of his deeds. He told her a story of how he saved her husband's life, turning his frostbitten toe into the morning star. This caused Groa to get flustered, and she screwed up her spell a little bit, leaving stones in Thor's head forever.

There aren't any real free resources where you can learn about PIE that are reliable, as it's obscure outside of academia unfortunately. But if you're willing to shell out 60 bucks, this book is a pretty good introduction. As always, if you're interested in Norse myth I recommend checking out Jackson Crawford's YouTube channel.

In all likelihood, Greek and Hindu religious belief systems are similar not because of trade contacts, but because they are actually directly related, sisters descended from a prehistoric Indo-European religion or religious continuum. You can find further correspondences with Roman, Celtic, Germanic, Lithuanian, Slavic, and Hittite religions, all of which are also part of the Indo-European diaspora beginning roughly 6000 years ago and continuing in waves for another 3000-4000 years.

There are no direct attestations of these prehistoric Indo-European religious beliefs themselves, but like the proto-language, they have been reconstructed using comparative historical and linguistic methods. The basic framework will seem familiar: a chief daytime sky god (Indra, Zeus, Jupiter, Dei Patrous, and a few theologically demoted gods such as Tyr) whose daughter is the goddess of the dawn (Usas, Eos, Aurora, Eostre, Aušrinė). A pair of divine twins, usually the children of the daytime sky god (the Ashvins/Ashvieniai, Kastor/Castor and Polydeukes/Pollux, Hengis and Horsa, a possible Celtic cognate in Brân and Manawydan). Another pair of brothers involved in the creation of the universe or the foundation of the believing community (Manu and Yama, Mannus and Ymir, possibly also Romulus and Remus). A storm god (Perkunas, Perun, possibly Parjanya and Thor), a water god (Apam Napat, Neptunus, Nechtain) and a nature god (Pushan, Pan). A serpent (Vritra, Kaliya, Illuyanka, the Lernaean Hydra, Python, Jormungandr, Fafnir, Beowulf's dragon) slain, often by the thunder god.

Many, many other correspondences are disputed, debated or less certain due to insufficient evidence, and none of this is meant to discount other myths and beliefs that do arise out of cultural contact, but on the balance there's a wealth of evidence supporting a common origin for all of these Indo-European mythological/religious belief systems.

• Mallory/Adams, The Oxford Introduction to Proto-Indo-European and the Proto-Indo-European World, 2006.
  
• West, Indo-European Poetry and Myth, 2009.

>Is there a good book I could read to learn more about (proto-)Indo-Europeans and all those subgroups you mentioned?

For the Proto-Indo-Europeans, you can read Beekes, Mallory, or Fortson. For the Pre-Indo-European people, there has yet to be a book addressing all of them (and there's a good chance there will never be a book, because so little is known about them). You can see my blog, which I linked in my first post, to see a survey of all the Pre-Indo-Europeans. From there, you must google search. If you have any questions about specific Pre-IE people, just ask.

>I'd like to learn more about this stuff too. In a way, it seems to parallel the old (and probably wrong?) legends about the ancient history of India.

Yes, well, the linguistic conquerors of Europe were the same conquerors of India: the Indo-Europeans. A lot more of the Pre-IE cultures of India survive than do in Europe.

edit: A side-note, my list on my blog is incomplete. There is a bounty of Pre-IE studies of tribes in northernmost Europe: the Baltic strip, the higher reaches of Sweden, Finland, and Norway, and the expanse of northern Russia. These tribes are often called Pre-Proto-Uralic tribes, because those lands were displaced by the Urals rather than the Indo-Europeans. Unfortunately, the good majority of stuff being written on it is in Finnish, which I can't read.

Great post.

The Wikipedia entry on Proto-Indo-European religion does a good job of elaborating on the links.

Noted archaeologist, J. P. Mallory, has done fine work expounding on the theories underlying the Indo-European hypothesis.

His books, In Search of the Indo-Europeans: Language, Archaeology and Myth (more accessible of the two) and The Oxford Introduction to Proto-Indo-European and the Proto-Indo-European World, are well worth the read.