Reddit Reddit reviews The Study of Orchestration (Third Edition)

We found 26 Reddit comments about The Study of Orchestration (Third Edition). Here are the top ones, ranked by their Reddit score.

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The Study of Orchestration (Third Edition)
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26 Reddit comments about The Study of Orchestration (Third Edition):

u/mrutssamoht · 7 pointsr/composertalk

Hey man,
Same thing happened to me a few years ago. I just started writing on paper with piano if I needed help with pitches. I'd write as many pages as possible and then put what I did on finale just to hear what I wrote. It seems like a good method because nothing really beats the formatting of a good notation program but as many of my Comp. Prof.'s have said, "Midi isn't real. It will trick you." I think that's the most important part of this whole process. Something you write on midi might be very impossible (or uselessly difficult). Also, feel free to bring some music to someone who actually play the instrument you are writing for and asking them to play through it. Most performers I know are always willing to do this if they aren't too busy already!

When I started composing microtonaly (year or so ago) this became an even bigger problem for me and I started having to rely on my ear and experimenting with different types of synthesizers to determine an approximate sound. It gets better as you write things out though. Just by working things out from your head to paper for a while you develop a stronger ability to compose without midi crutches.

Some benefits of doing this you might not have thought of:

  1. When composing on paper you have the opportunity to see a line through without being controlled by bar lines or staff division (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004FEF4CG/ref=oh_details_o08_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 I use these). Often times I'll just compose rhythms and melodies without bar lines and then add them in later. This really helps me focus more on readability of a part (I've almost eradicated using too many time signature changes and my rehearsals/performances have gotten much better)

  2. You get to really step back and look at the overall image of what you have done. Just open up to a sheet and observe the aggregate image (much more difficult on a program).

  3. I get headaches looking at a screen for too long so if you have this problem this is great!

  4. It's easier to transport music you are working on.

  5. Composing can move faster because you aren't inhibited by changing note type and then clicking it into a spot etc.

  6. You focus much less on making your score look nice.

  7. You can interrupt a system with notes/visual representations of what you think might happen next (I use different shapes often)/commentary.

    Hope this convinces you this is a good idea.

    Make sure you have a strong hold on proper notation/orchestration (A useful resource - http://www.amazon.com/The-Study-Orchestration-Third-Edition/dp/039397572X, bit pricey though) And also, this site has been a miracle for me - http://www.music.indiana.edu/department/composition/isfee/. This will save you a lot of time.

    Best of luck! Also, just trust yourself and your ear. This stuff takes time, patience, and practice (like all things music).

    Edit: Some Trivia - many composers of the past (those without the miracle/curse of notation software) would just sketch things out and short hand things ("repeat this here", "ostinato bass" etc.) and then hand it to a publisher to put together when it was done. For example, Beethoven. I mean look at this crap - https://www.google.com/search?q=beethoven+hand+written+music&client=firefox-a&hs=fUD&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=fflb&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=8kpKUqyCL4fi2AXV0YGQBA&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1600&bih=701&dpr=1#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=MP65Ypeh4KL_nM%3A%3B-WsvncUQEMICJM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fclassicalmusicblog.com%252F2007%252F09%252Fimages%252Fmvt1-facsimile-s.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fclassicalmusicblog.com%252F2007%252F09%252Fbeethoven-sonata.html%3B580%3B463. Think of the notation software as your robotic publisher. That's what I do.
u/MapleToothpick · 7 pointsr/composertalk

It helps to get a book on orchestration. I have Adler's and in it he examines each instrument and family. Helps familiarize yourself with their idiosyncracies.

Edit: Added link.

u/Slab_Heap_Pout · 7 pointsr/WeAreTheMusicMakers

Northern Sounds has an interactive version of the classic Rimsky-Korsakov Principles of Orchestration. I often find myself referring to it when I'm arranging and/or orchestrating along with my hardcover Adler text.

u/m1stertim · 5 pointsr/musictheory

This is the standard orchestration text that will cover this stuff more in-depth.

u/Xenoceratops · 5 pointsr/musictheory

> Add the E flat clarinet to the piccolo if you want some extra punch/piercing/volume.

Does anyone really want "extra punch/piercing/volume" from a piccolo?

> Add the oboes or clarinets to the flutes if the flutes sound too thin. Consider doubling these in octaves. Harmony can serve a similar purpose and provide a different timbre than exact doubling.

Writing flutes and clarinets/oboes together definitely brings the flutes closer to the sound of the reed instruments. I'd think unison is the best bet. Octave doubling is an effect all its own, and shouldn't be used without purpose. However, if done, doubling should occur over the highest voice or under the lowest voice.

> Clarinets and violins or violas can sound almost identical if scored creatively. They blend very easily.

In my experience, clarinet gets masked by strings if they're in the same register. You're the clarinetist, though. What's your take?

> These are just a handful of ways to spice up your sounds. There are infinitely more, and you'll just have to experiment with them to figure out what you like.

"Experiment" is a strange word to use for an expensive ensemble that requires a lot of manpower and a huge amount of skill to write for. Assuming OP even has access to an orchestra, I would be incredibly surprised if the conductor or any of the musicians tolerated repeated experimentation with bad orchestration that wastes their rehearsal time. Better and cheaper is to get a couple of books on orchestration (Rimsky-Korsakov, Piston, Adler, Gerou/Black), do exercises, have a composer who knows what they are doing critique said exercises, and study the shit out of scores. And no, sound libraries are not the same thing as a real orchestra.

>Don't underestimate the value of letting an instrument stand on its own though. Don't double everything or else you'll get a machine instead of an orchestra. That said, the best way to figure out what sounds good is to pick up some scores you like, listen to them while you read, and figure out what sounds you like.

Solid advice. Overscoring is the most common mistake of composers unfamiliar with the orchestral medium.

u/SiriusBeatz · 4 pointsr/WeAreTheMusicMakers

If you want to get into large ensemble stuff rather than chamber music, I strongly suggest you pick up a book on orchestration. Here is one that I've read and would recommend. It will teach you some of the typical textures that each section of the orchestra is known for and gradually work you into bringing them together, starting with solo strings, to ensemble strings, to the entire string section, and eventually the whole orchestra.

If you've written prog-rock before, then I trust you know your fair share of theory, or at the very least, some degree of harmony, so you're probably fine on that end. What's more, you likely have some experience writing outside of the typical, pop-oriented verse-chorus structure, though you might want to also study a bit of the traditional forms used in classical music.

Beyond that, as was mentioned before, listen to a lot of the big names in orchestral music and steal whatever you can get away with.

u/Rhaps · 3 pointsr/musictheory

It's interesting, but it's getting a little old now...

Of course, it's still important as a historical document, but some of the informations are outdated (some of the techniques, registral qualities) since orchestras, and instruments themselves, have changed since Berlioz wrote his treatise.

I, personally, use Adler's Study of Orchestration, which I think the best orchestration book for modern orchestras.

u/eaglesbecomevultures · 3 pointsr/classicalmusic

Sure! Here are a few that have helped me out:

The textbook that my school uses for beginning theory classes is The Complete Musician by Steven Laitz. It is a pretty comprehensive look at tonality, covering the very basics through 19th century theory. Isn't too pricey either: http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Musician-Integrated-Approach-Listening/dp/0199742782

Fux's Gradus ad Parnassum is a great place to begin working on counterpoint: http://www.amazon.com/Study-Counterpoint-Johann-Joseph-Parnassum/dp/0393002772/ref=sr_1_sc_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1368896313&sr=1-1-spell&keywords=gradus+ad+parnasam+fux

Samuel Adler's The Study of Orchestration is my current go to book when researching the basics of different instruments and orchestration techniques: http://www.amazon.com/Study-Orchestration-Third-Samuel-Adler/dp/039397572X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1368896395&sr=1-1&keywords=samuel+adler+orchestration

Lastly, once you feel you have developed a solid foundation with your theory knowledge, I can't stress enough the importance of studying/analyzing scores. It is (in my opinion) the best way of learning how to compose. One can learn so much from one score!

u/keakealani · 3 pointsr/musictheory

Ahh, that makes sense, sorry \^\^;

There are books on a huge variety of subjects in music, so it does depend a little bit on what you are interested in specifically. For a broad overview, I liked A History of Western Music - the current edition is the 8th, but much of the materials from the 7th edition are available online. Another book I recommend is Harold C. Schonberg's The Lives of the Great Composers. It is less in-depth, but is written in a more narrative style while still hitting on a lot of the "who's who" in classical music from the Baroque to the 20th century (although it's maybe a tad outdated in the later 20th and 21st century).

Besides those two, I actually don't have any others on the top of my head that are good overviews. /u/m3g0wnz does have a guide to music theory textbooks on the sidebar that details out some of the main texts in that area. And, of course, there are books that specialize on a variety of subjects within music theory and history - Ebenezer Prout's book on fugues is one such example that I've looked at, as well as both the Kennan and Adler on the subject of orchestration. (Actually, Kennan also wrote a book on Counterpoint.)

On the subject of sight-singing, I've used both Rhythm and Pitch and A New Approach to Sight Singing in my aural skills classes - I like the Berkowitz a little better in the way it's organized, but both offer plenty of examples for practice. Alternatively, picking up a hymnal is possibly an easier alternative to sightsinging that gives you lots of tonal material for practice.

With most of my other suggestions, though, you don't really need a book. Print out some scores on IMSLP or pick up a cheap study edition (like this one of Mozart piano sonatas) and work through a harmonic/formal analysis.

With transposition, I think probably just working through some scores on IMSLP would be a good start, as well - I can't think of any other better way to get exercises for that. It's one of those topics that's pretty easy to quiz yourself with as long as you keep yourself honest. :)

Edit to add: As far as specifics of literature, that is obviously pretty instrument-dependent. I am a vocalist, and I usually choose language first and then begin exploring pieces that might work with my current technical goals. I know a lot of instrumentalists treat genre/time period the same way. So depending on your instrument, you may have a different approach, but it helps to narrow things down to a few composers you might like to explore for your instrument, and then seeing if anything works for you. Although be wary - for me I end up getting so involved in lit studies that I have a list a mile long of pieces I want to study in the future. It's a double-edged sword for sure.

u/[deleted] · 3 pointsr/WeAreTheMusicMakers

If you actually want people to perform your music someday, then you do need to learn what the instruments can do. If it's going to be all synth, then no. But still, looking at orchestral scores (no matter how old or new) will give you ideas.

Here is a crapton of public domain scores for you to peruse. Maybe not what you are looking for, but hopefully it can serve as a starting point.

u/I_luv_harpsichord · 3 pointsr/musictheory

I took an arranging course for my music degree and I really love the textbook they made us purchase. It's this! http://www.amazon.com/Study-Orchestration-Third-Samuel-Adler/dp/039397572X/
I personally think it's very helpful. :) I know it's expensive, but I think the investment is worth it.

As for counterpoint, I like Joseph Fux! There was a textbook that I used, but unfortunately I don't remember it. (It's at home and I live at an off-campus apartment) http://www.amazon.com/Study-Counterpoint-Johann-Joseph-Parnassum/dp/0393002772

I hope this helps :) But if you want somethiing free there's this .... http://imslp.org/wiki/Principles_of_Orchestration_%28Rimsky-Korsakov,_Nikolay%29

u/r2metwo · 2 pointsr/composer

In no particular order, here are some things that come to mind:



Modes of Rhythm

Anthony Wellington teaches slap bass and rhythm using the "Modes of Rhythm" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asYfvMzjk7M

This is an interesting approach to working with rhythm.


Arranging for Large Jazz Ensemble by Dick Lowell

https://www.amazon.com/Arranging-Large-Jazz-Ensemble-Pullig/dp/0634036564/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=dick+lowell&qid=1554352576&s=gateway&sr=8-4

Good resource for jazz arranging



The Study of Orchestration by Samuel Adler

https://www.amazon.com/Study-Orchestration-Third-Samuel-Adler/dp/039397572X/ref=sr_1_2?crid=270ZIQBMLZL3O&keywords=study+of+orchestration&qid=1554354116&s=gateway&sprefix=study+of+orc%2Caps%2C203&sr=8-2

I have the 3rd edition. Get it used rather than new. This is a popular choice when studying instrumentation and orchestration for orchestral/chamber music.


Other good orchestration online resources:

http://resources.music.indiana.edu/isfee/

https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Academy/Instrumentology/


The Secrets of Dance Music Production

https://www.amazon.com/Secrets-Dance-Music-Production/dp/0956446035/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=attack+magazine&qid=1554356008&s=gateway&sr=8-1

I haven't checked this one out completely, but it's an interesting resource for electronic music with great visual analysis


And if you're looking for things to improve your composing skills, definitely study counterpoint. Start with Species counterpoint then move to other styles/eras. Learning this completely changed my perspective of theory and why we learn it.


Hope that helps.

u/singlefrequency · 2 pointsr/WeAreTheMusicMakers

If she doesn't have it already, I highly recommend Samuel Adler's "Study of Orchestration" book - http://www.amazon.com/Study-Orchestration-Third-Samuel-Adler/dp/039397572X/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1323789264&sr=8-2 If she's going to school for music composition, she'll more than likely need this any way. Might be good to get her a head start!

u/SocialIssuesAhoy · 1 pointr/composer

An orchestration book sounds like a VERY good idea... is this the one you're talking about?

There's a fair chance that no one will ever have to touch the stuff I've written. We did our performances (for the shows we didn't get an orchestra together so they were just piano/keyboard/guitar), and we're wrapping up studio recordings of the show, which is what I created the orchestrations FOR since I had the chance to have them be heard (digital orchestrations, yay!). Anyway, I'm putting together a master score at this point mostly for my own education and satisfaction. There's a slight chance that perhaps the show will be rented out someday, but who knows. Either way I'd like an accurate score of everything :). Thanks!

u/NeverxSummer · 1 pointr/TwoXChromosomes

Do it!! And dude, high five for being a jazzer.

Composition resources... I have a few things that I enjoy using: The Thesaurus of Scales and Melodic Patterns (sidenote: the best shed dictionary ever), an orchestration book or wikipedia the instrument you're looking for a range on, IMSLP also known as "so that's how that works", and jazz theory/harmony... though I don't have a book to recommend on that one, as I learned it in a trial by fire sort of way. As far as notation software goes, I'm a big Finale junkie, though there's little advantage to Finale over Sibelius until you get to doing weird things with the software. I've heard some really good things about Reason, though haven't tried it personally because my computer doesn't spec for it. Since you're probably more theory minded, I'd suggest starting with jazz and reverse engineering yourself a tune/chart from a progression you like. It's sorta like writing a solo, but with an eraser. //rambling...


Theremin?! That's so awesome.


Yeah. I totally hear you on that one. I have like nothing to add to a discussion about some fancy new microphone or being in a cover band.

u/musiktheorist · 1 pointr/musictheory

That's the best one for instrumentation. Very thorough.

EDIT: Here's the amazon link to the book

u/elektra25 · 1 pointr/classicalmusic

I love the Adler but only because I'm a huge geek

u/vanillaholler · 1 pointr/Composition

If possible, look into taking a class at a local college.
Otherwise, check out an orchestration textbook like https://www.amazon.com/Study-Orchestration-Third-Samuel-Adler/dp/039397572X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1467290384&sr=8-1&keywords=the+study+of+orchestration+samuel+adler

That's what a lot of schools use when teaching orchestration. This will help you learn how to write for specific instruments and covers many techniques. Another great way to improve your orchestration is to study scores. If you are looking for a specific "rich sound" like what you hear in whomever's symphony no. 2, then get a score for it and listen to it! I advise listening to it once without a score or listening but not looking too closely at it and following along.
Stick a page marker in the book on a page you find interesting or when you hear a sound you like, then come back to it and try to figure out what you like about it! The textbook will help a lot because it can inform you of a technique you may be unfamiliar with: what it's called, and how to notate it correctly. If you get a copy of the book with CDs you can hear some examples of everything in the book.

Another way to help if you can't find or afford the book is to find someone who plays the instruments you're writing for and go to them with pen and paper and ask them "show me every interesting trick or technique you know how to play." have them spell out whatever it's called and show you how you would notate it as well.

And like composing any new thing, the more you do it, the better at it you'll be.

u/GermanSeabass · 1 pointr/WeAreTheMusicMakers

Try it out. Dive in, see what works, what doesn't. Back it up with theory. I'm fond of these as resources:

u/dmajoraddnine · 1 pointr/musictheory

Forget all the other books: Sam Adler's is the one you want to read & reference. Highly comprehensive, and it uses a ton of examples (not just Rimsky-Korsakov works). Plus, the third edition is updated for 20th century writing.

u/amliebsten · 1 pointr/WeAreTheMusicMakers

Never heard of the Russo book till now, but this is what I used and still use - Samuel Adler's The study of Orchestration.

u/john_rage · 1 pointr/composer

[The Study of Orchestration by Sam Alder] (http://www.amazon.com/The-Study-Orchestration-Third-Edition/dp/039397572X/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1396568479&sr=8-5&keywords=orchestration) is a good one, although a bit expensive.

Fundamentals of Composition by Arnold Schoenberg is one I really enjoyed, and goes from simpler forms and melodies to much more advanced areas.

u/9rus · 1 pointr/WeAreTheMusicMakers

Well the first issue you talk about-- the assignment of notes in your chords to instruments of the orchestra-- is orchestration. Here are a couple of good textbooks that cover that: