Reddit reviews The Velvet Rage: Overcoming the Pain of Growing Up Gay in a Straight Man's World

This was discussed in Joe Korts Book who is a Therapist. By the way I suggest exploring this with a therapist as it has much deeper roots (there are low cost options - aka sliding scale, or ir your in school often they have a free department, LGBTQ Centers also have resources). Your using the sex as a validation to work through some issue your dealing with that might stem from your past. It sounds like you want to ignore those you see for the sex as a use of domination and being wanted. The therapist can work with whatever issue including being ignored as a child or not feeling loved, etc... This also happens when men often have sex with those they are not interested in and can't control themselves to avoid these instances. Some gay men have constantly have "1" time hookups because like a drug their brain produces new neuro chemicals of a natural high every time they meet someone (also called infatuation), this is strongest with the first person you fall in love with, once it fades men get annoyed and loose the infatuated bliss and instead stress over the actual work a real relationship takes to build something great. Sex is a powerful tool, some use it as a self esteem boost and a sign they are wanted. When it is done to quickly it looses the other characteristics that create desire and long term bonding. Your judging these relationships by the sex, which often evolves and gets better with a deeper intimacy. I suggest not having sex with men too soon and build a bond with other form of connection (have sex with a FB until things are solid) then you can truly get to know them.

http://www.amazon.com/Smart-Things-Find-Real-Love/dp/193683331X

http://www.amazon.com/The-Velvet-Rage-Overcoming-Straight/dp/1611746450

What comes to mind is The Velvet Rage by Alan Downs.

From the Amazon page,
>The most important issue in a gay man’s life is not “coming out,” but coming to terms with the invalidating past. Despite the progress made in recent years, many gay men still wonder, “Are we better off?” The byproduct of growing up gay in a straight world continues to be the internalization of shame, rejection, and anger—a toxic cocktail that can lead to drug abuse, promiscuity, alcoholism, depression, and suicide. Drawing on contemporary psychological research, the author’s own journey, and the stories of many of his friends and clients, Velvet Rage addresses the myth of gay pride and outlines three stages to emotional well-being for gay men. The revised and expanded edition covers issues related to gay marriage, a broader range of examples that extend beyond middle-class gay men in America, and expansion of the original discussion on living authentically as a gay man.

Take it with a grain of salt, of course, as it may be a little dated and it does not dissect every personality trait and life situation, but I think it has some conversational value.

The Velvet Rage- Alan Downs
https://www.amazon.com/Velvet-Rage-Overcoming-Growing-Straight/dp/1611746450

I Am Not Myself These Days-Josh Kilmer-Purcell
https://www.amazon.com/Am-Not-Myself-These-Days/dp/0060817321/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1509556002&sr=8-1&keywords=i+am+not+myself+these+days

Body issues affect men loads more than anyone cares to discuss and gay men are hit particularity hard. For example, "straight-guy thin" is "gay fat". Guys of all ages tear themselves apart and other gay men are happy to help. In an ever-more image focused culture, it is a struggle to not fall into this trap of trying to live up to everyone else's highlight reel when you're living your b-roll.

I struggled with being a chubby kid forever. I was called 'fatty-faggot' my entire childhood. I am a normal weight now at 29 but my self-image has never caught up. When I am stressed or upset, I feel like that chubby little boy who just wants to hide. That said, what helped me was working on myself inside and out and setting incremental goals rather than grand, long-term goals. Easier said than done, but here is what I did.

The first thing I did was clean up my diet and portion sizes. That is 80% of the battle on the weight front. Figure out your TDE for calories, eat a deficit, lose weight. It really is that simple. I track using the app MyFitnessPal. You can eat anything but a a balanced diet of protein, fat and carbs with minimally processed foods will keep you from feeling hungry and give you steady energy. I always pack my lunch for work and if I forget, I keep Soylent at my desk so I don't eat out. When I can, I research where I'll be eating out so I know what I want to order and don't get tempted by things that'll blow up my daily intake. I know what is not-awful at fast-food joints. I drink but track the cals. And sometimes, I say fuck it and eat a big fat meal...but eating excessively has to be the exception, NOT A RULE. What helps me is not seeing every meal as a pleasure cruise but as me just refueling to do my work and live my life.

Drastic diets do not work. It'll take some trial and error but you will find out a lifestyle of eating that suites you. Remember, this is a long game of changing your habits and your relationship with food. It does not matter what you eat between Thanksgiving and Christmas but rather that you eat between New Years ans Thanksgiving.

I committed to a 'no zero days' approach to exercise. Everyday, I do something for 30 mins that gets me off my ass. Even if my day is crazy, I walk my pups for 30 mins. I use my Apple Watch to track. Often, I eat my lunch at my desk while I work and use my lunch hour to get moving. You don't have to spend 3 hours a day in the gym to build exercise in. If you wanna give your cleaned up diet a boost, this is how you do it.

Finally, learn to start loving yourself being more mindful about how you consider yourself. To this day, I have an automatic negative self-image and when I catch myself being hard on myself, I ask "Well, what have I done today or ever to make this better?" or "who says I need to be this way or look this way?" You can motivate yourself and still be gentle with you. Read some self-help books and if you feel you need it, consider therapy. There is no shame in asking for help.

These helped me shift my thinking:

https://www.amazon.com/Velvet-Rage-Overcoming-Growing-Straight/dp/1611746450

https://www.amazon.com/Daring-Greatly-Courage-Vulnerable-Transforms/dp/1592408419

I hope this helps buddy.

The best exploration thus far that I've found of why we've developed many of our unique social patterns/traits can be found in "The Velvet Rage".

It's a really good book that IMO every gay man should read for many reasons beyond the question in this thread. Granted, some of the patterns highlighted in the book have since receded, but the book is incredibly insightful even in 2017. Similarly, an even older book "The Best Little Boy in the World", may be interesting to check out too.

Basically the author would argue this sort of behaviour stems from the experiences many of us have growing up, while learning how to come to terms with our sexualities. We're often subjected to a different experience than other boys. We're often taught to be ashamed of ourselves, even if it was never intentional on the part of those around us.

To compensate, many of us learn to behave in ways that constantly bring us affirmation despite a nagging feeling that we are somehow undeserving of affection. For some, this takes the form of becoming hyper-masculine, being homophobic, being a straight A student, going to the gym, etc. For others this may take the form of becoming more feminine, more sassy, more sensitive, more creative, or more caring. It may depend substantially on the people around them during those times. Due to the different experience of being gay, young gay boys may find different routes of attaining affirmation than their straight peers (e.g., by hanging around with girls who may be more likely to accept them — or at least less likely to remind them that other boys are different). The idea is the same for both "masc" and "femme" gays though: do something to set oneself apart as exceptional in order to collect affirmation and avoid feeling uncomfortable with oneself.

Later into life, even after coming out of the closet and been "out" for years, this can evolve into acting outrageously (or, alternatively, it can evolve into a facade of "masc"/"not a bitchy queen"/"non-scene"/"straight acting"). The author argues this is a way of compensating for lingering shame, and protecting oneself from getting hurt, even after being out for years or decades — and it can lead to all sorts of harmful problems in ones life like relationship problems, depression, etc.

To be honest, I'm only part way through the book, but I'm assuming that probably after that the author will get into a later stage where people can let go of the need to constantly prove to themselves that they are loveable.

I should say that I honestly doubt the author is suggesting that guys who use the term "girl" are always doing so out of shame. I think the central thesis is more that these types of behaviours, which set us apart from other men, are often shaped by those early experiences of feeling "different" and seeking affirmation to avoid dealing with shame. So in some of us, those behaviours may begin there. After that it's more like a part of our history and development as a person, and may be something we continue even after letting go of shame.

Those last two paragraphs are extrapolation, so YMMV.

So in the case of your neighbour, maybe they grew up in an environment that made them feel different. Maybe it caused them to feel ashamed. Maybe their father became distant after noticing something was "not normal". Maybe they found affirmation from girls in their lives, who told them they also found men attractive — or by a female adult in their lives who helped them feel better about themselves.

Or maybe after coming out of the closet, they lost many friends. Maybe they found comfort and acceptance by playing the role of "gay best friend". Maybe that's how they survived high school. Maybe they found that by embracing the unexpected — by poking fun at gender in a tongue and cheek manner — they could garner affection and admiration from their peers. Or, maybe they found that it helped them filter out homophobic acquaintances before they could get close enough to do more damage than a stranger could.

And maybe they've also come to terms with it. Maybe now it's simply become a part of who they are — something they say to acknowledge where they've been. Something they say to let other gay men know "girl[, I've been there too]". Even if other gay men have handled their shame differently (e.g., by being the best at sports or lowering their voice to seem more "masc"), perhaps there are commonalities among the experience that this person acknowledges with "girl".

Of course, it's pretty much impossible to know just how this particular person came to use the word in the way that they do. I don't think that's really the point though. The word signals "hey, me too", which, if we're being honest, is something I don't think most of us heard enough of growing up.

Gays are statistically more intelligent, and as the book The Velvet Rage describes, they frequently channel their frustrations into becoming high achievers, so they often get good jobs that pay a lot of money and thus can afford CA/NY.

​

Lots and lots of therapy. The Velvet Rage was essential reading. Knowing lots of other gay men have had similar problems helps. There are peer support groups also--there absolutely is profound trauma we experience growing up in a world that doesn't accept us, even if some have it a bit better. Be kind to yourself--the coping mechanisms you developed back then just aren't serving you now. I fell into addiction because I internalized all the negative messaging churches and schoolmates told me. I think it helps also to be the person you wish you had back then for someone else in that situation right now. You know firsthand what it's like, and by supporting someone else going through it, I think you can be that person for yourself at the same time.

I was a sorta late bloomer, coming out in the later part of college. I didn't really have people to talk to, most people didn't suspect so it wasn't ever brought up. When I decided to start coming out, I wanted to prepare with stories and experiences from others, but really I didn't know where to look. At that age, the internet had slim pickings for what I was looking for. The book The Velvet Rage offered some reasoning to the way I was feeling. In retrospect, I disagree with some of the author's perspectives, but at that time, it helped.

When I actually started telling people, I would get really tired, and go to bed. The following morning I always woke up with nausea and would puke. No drinking involved, but it was a weird psychosomatic response I experienced.

I guess in a way, your sadness comes from a mixture of things; in a way, it's a mourning of no longer having to be a person that repressed a certain part of their life. It's also an overwhelming sadness of knowing that you've missed out on things in life if it hadn't been for the burden of hiding. I experienced A LOT of rage, not with myself, but with the conditions of the world around me. Things didn't make sense for a while, and when they did, they always felt "fresh." Like not knowing when I could start telling friends about the guys I thought were hot. Always thinking "Oh god, am I being 'too gay' now or have I always felt this way?"
Having your situation be an "open secret" can make this process harder as it raises questions about trust and suspicion. But overall, just know that this takes time, it takes a lot of time. Be patient. Listen to yourself, and think things through.

/u/manwithahatwithatan, this is definitely worth the read. It's a hard one, but also so very important. I also highly recommend taking the time to read a book called The Velvet Rage. The book is far therapeutic and will help you find the tools you need to get over this struggle.

These reads are important because they acknowledge hard truths you are talking about. The Velvet Rage goes into strategies on how to handle issues a lot of gay men face.

It is all about finding lasting happiness and self-worth. I actually think you are on the right track because you are taking the first and hardest step of acknowledging the problems. Getting to that place of self fulfillment will take time, but you can do it.

One key thing I want to note that there is absolutely nothing wrong with being single. In fact, if you struggle being happy while single, you will struggle with happiness in a relationship. I have so many gay friends (and straight) who are married and still feel incredibly lonely. Relationships do not fix this sort of thing.

The Velvet Rage by Alan Downs. It may seem like an anachronism, but I feel it is still relevant in our heteronormative world.

> All of the behaviors of finding a mate is usually in high school. Passing notes in class holding hands while walking down the hall, going out on dates. Do you see what I am getting at? The gay guys in high school do not participate in these behaviors because they are in fear of their safety and protecting their secret from everyone.... Straight couples have professed their love from the rooftop, had sexual relations that everybody knew about and accepted. What do the gay guys have? Nothing but a blank slate and no clue how to rectify that.

Have you read The Velvet Rage? If not, highly recommended. http://www.amazon.com/The-Velvet-Rage-Overcoming-Straight/dp/1611746450

Edited to add link.

https://www.amazon.com/Velvet-Rage-Overcoming-Growing-Straight/dp/1611746450/ref=nodl_

You can move beyond your shame. I hope it happens for you one day 💗