Reddit reviews The Wandering Who

It is also the belief that non-Jews are inferior and should be ethnically cleansed from that alleged and made-up "homeland" that was supposedly a "Land without People" but which actually had a lot of people who just happened to be brown skinned.

FYI Zionism was based on the same 'blood and soil' ethno-nationalist supremacist views that led to Nazism


The Wandering Who: A Study of Jewish Identity Politics
https://www.amazon.com/Wandering-Who-Gilad-Atzmon/dp/1846948754

Furthermore,

>Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.

Christians in Europe were invaders and converts too, so what's your point?

First of all the idea that "the Jews" even exist as a single unified "Them" is just as much rubbish as referring to "The Muslim World"
https://www.amazon.com/Wandering-Who-Gilad-Atzmon/dp/1846948754

These are all manufactured identities not actual, historical ones.
And there's no huge difference. "Invaders" FYI are a common theme in European history. Pretty much everyone invaded everyone else. The Huns and Goths for example also invaded Europe and just as with Muslims they too have left their influence there, they are not a separate "world"

> It is also the belief that non-Jews are inferior and should be ethnically cleansed from that alleged and made-up "homeland" that was supposedly a "Land without People" but which actually had a lot of people who just happened to be brown skinned.

Hertzl said nothing about that.

I don't believe that either.

There can be a Palestinian state but Israel must also be allowed to exist.

> FYI Zionism was based on the same 'blood and soil' ethno-nationalist supremacist views that led to Nazism

Incorrect. Hertzl was prompted to the idea of Israel by the Dreyfus Affair in France.

> The Wandering Who: A Study of Jewish Identity Politics https://www.amazon.com/Wandering-Who-Gilad-Atzmon/dp/1846948754

Not a reputable source.

> Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.

Even if that is true, it's still the only place on Earth associated with the Jews for their whole history. Some worldviews find that inconvenient, but that is not my problem.

Israel isn't going anywhere. They won't stop and neither will I.

Sorry, can't hear you over history as written by Jewish Israeli historians themselves

http://www.amazon.com/Wandering-Who-Gilad-Atzmon/dp/1846948754

Israel still has the laws about working on the "Sabbath". There's a pretty good discussion of the Sabbath laws in The Wandering Who:

https://www.amazon.ca/Wandering-Who-Gilad-Atzmon/dp/1846948754

> to return to their land of origins

What rubbish

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16r9hy_searching-for-exile-truth-or-myth-couchtripper_news

First of all, the jews of the Levant and the Palestinians are genetically the same -- of course the geneticists who pointed this out was attacked and it was demanded that the article he wrote be physically torn out of all the copies of the scientific journal in all the libraries in the world, because it contradicts one of the founding myths of Israel:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/nov/25/medicalscience.genetics


Furthermore, even the rabbis are facing some facts:

>Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/09/books/new-torah-for-modern-minds.html?pagewanted=all

In fact the Zionist idea of a "Jewish People" was recently manufactured:

"The Wandering Who?"
https://www.amazon.com/Wandering-Who-Gilad-Atzmon/dp/1846948754

http://icarusfilms.com/new2014/exl.html

https://muse.jhu.edu/article/191693

>hey were driven out by muslims and other factors

Total rubbish. In fact you're confused the Moslems with the so-called explusion of Jews by the Romans -- which never actually happened and is a myth

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16r9hy_searching-for-exile-truth-or-myth-couchtripper_news

I suggest you read "The Invention of the Jewish People" by Shlomo Sands:

https://books.google.com/books?id=pgsP0DFkmp0C&lpg=PA134&ots=qlApxSeo9C&dq=myth%20of%20jewish%20exile&pg=PA134#v=onepage&q=myth%20of%20jewish%20exile&f=false



https://www.amazon.com/Myths-Exile-Metaphor-Copenhagen-International/dp/1138886890

>convert otherwise you'll have a hard time, which means pay extra taxes

Again complete and utter crapola

The Jews under Islam fared quite well and in fact there was a renaissance of Jewish culture, a "Golden Age", under Moslem rule. In the Crusades, they sides with the Moslem forces against the Christians who had massacred them etc etc

Furthermore to the extent that were taxed, it was because they were excluded from the greater tax (20%) that the Moslems had to pay. In fact the Moslem rulers did NOT encourage conversion because Jews could travel freely to the Western countries as merchants, where the Christian church relegated them to money changers.

All this is just BULLSHIT hatemongering that has been cooked up


Modern Israel has NOTHING to do with ancient Levant, no matter how hard the Zionist try to spin it that way.

And nothing that happened 2000 years ago give some guy from Brooklyn or Ukraine the right to come over and take the lands of some guy in Palestine anyway

Funny -- because Jewish national identity is in fact a myth.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Wandering-Who-Gilad-Atzmon/dp/1846948754

> there is no concept of these nations beyond belonging to whatever ruling clan or tribe

And that is very much a description of Israel.

>Your phrase "manufactured state" is curious. What could it mean?



It means a nation built on an artificially constructed sense of national identity such as that which the Zionists created in order to manufacture "Israel":

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1844676234

http://www.amazon.com/The-Wandering-Who-Gilad-Atzmon/dp/1846948754



>The polls prove nothing.


LOL, I'll take the word of multiple independent polls over some ass on reddit anyday

The Wandering Who? by Gilad Atzmon. Beautifully written and hard to counter.

Are you claiming that Judaism arose spontaneously, out of thin air? Perhaps the Hebrews just sprang out of the ground somewhere? Are you arguing that Judaism is the first, or earliest religion? That it has no historical antecedent whatsoever? That monotheism was not, in fact, predated by polytheism? Have you conducted any research to support these claims?

The segments in my post are well-cited. Perhaps you'd like to refute the authors of the research? By all means, look up the citations and compose angry, emotionally-based retorts to this historical and archaeological research.

Educate thyself. The following works are by Israeli authors:

The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Texts

Authors: Israel Finkelstein, Professor of Archaeology at Tel Aviv University, and Neil Asher Silberman, an archaeologist, historian and contributing editor to Archaeology Magazine.

The Invention of the Jewish People

Author: Shlomo Sand, Professor of History at Tel Aviv University





The Wandering Who

Author: Isreali-born Gilad Atzmon



Review:

It is a scholarly and truly monumental work, deeply profound and, of course, controversial. (Alan Hart, British Journalist and covert diplomat in Middle East, ITN's News at 10, BBC's Panorama)

I see, so you're promoting the myth that Jews have superior rights to land by virtue of being Jewish.

You think being Jewish gives you some sort of genetic right to other people's lands? So some guy in Brooklyn or Ukraine has superior rights than a Palestinian by virtue of claiming descendance from the ancient Jews of 2000 years ago? Or that "Jews" are in fact some sort of exclusive category of people rather than just another religion followed by people who intermixed with lots of other people?

FYI the idea of a "Jewish nation" is relatively modern

>The Wandering Who Gilad Atzmon
https://www.amazon.com/Wandering-Who-Gilad-Atzmon/dp/1846948754

Even if the Bible were taken literally, the ancient Jews were the dominant force in the Levant for about 800 years, and there's no reason to take the Bible literally

>Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.
https://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/09/books/new-torah-for-modern-minds.html

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/643380/posts

there was no Roman expulsion of Jews in 70AD, there was no Exodus, "King" David was a small-timer, etc. etc.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Wandering-Who-Gilad-Atzmon/dp/1846948754/ref=pd_sim_b_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=1GX0AG3YPR0P2GSAS1JA

http://www.amazon.com/Invention-Jewish-People-Shlomo-Sand/dp/1844676234/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1409511043&sr=1-1&keywords=Shlomo+sands

Nonsense, and nobody said facts matter less than feelings. It is a FACT that Palestnians have been ethnically-cleansed by Israel. Note that not ONE jew is sent to refugee camps, only Palestinians are, and not ONE Palestinian is granted an automatic "Right of return" from anywhere in the world to enjoy state-subsidized housing in settlements in Israel, only Jews are -- do you think that's a coincidence?



Anyway, first of all Jews have and had been in the Middle East for a long time before Israel's creation, they're well integrated in the rest of the world too, and if anything it is Israel itself that is placing "the jews" in danger


Second, there is no "The Jews", it is a manufactured identity
https://www.amazon.com/Invention-Jewish-People-Shlomo-Sand/dp/1844676234

https://www.amazon.com/Wandering-Who-Gilad-Atzmon/dp/1846948754

Anyway, why should the Palestinians have to pay for Europe's antisemitism

https://www.amazon.com/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851685553

The Holocaust (C) is the "new" Jewish religion.

To find out more, read this.

Yes yes, we're all aware of the "new antisemitism" wherein every criticism of Israel is defined as anti-semitic but sorry no one is buying it. http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-Ed-Contributors/Yes-all-criticism-of-Israel-is-anti-Semitic

There is no such thing as a "Jewish people" -- this is a recently manufactured identity according to Prof Shlomo Sands at Hebrew University http://www.amazon.com/Invention-Jewish-People-Shlomo-Sand/dp/1844676234

http://www.amazon.com/The-Wandering-Who-Gilad-Atzmon/dp/1846948754/ref=pd_sim_b_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=1K0K6CEMKZXZWMFEGKPC

This is one of the many myths of Zionism -- there was no Roman Expulsion, there was no "King" David, there was exile from Egypt either, etc. etc. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/643380/posts

and even if there is, their "right of self-determination" is not superior to that of the Palestinians whom the Zionists ethnically-cleansed, and whose very existence the Zionists have sought to deny. "There are no such things as Palestinians" - Golda Meir.