Reddit Reddit reviews Under the Banner of Heaven: A Story of Violent Faith

We found 46 Reddit comments about Under the Banner of Heaven: A Story of Violent Faith. Here are the top ones, ranked by their Reddit score.

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Under the Banner of Heaven: A Story of Violent Faith
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46 Reddit comments about Under the Banner of Heaven: A Story of Violent Faith:

u/dustin_allan · 92 pointsr/atheism

I also recommend Jon Krakauer's Under the Banner of Heaven.

It's primarily about a double murder committed by a Mormon splinter
cult, the Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints, in 1984. However, it also goes into detail of some of the really shitty things in the history of the Mormons.

It was a fascinating, frightening read.

u/AtTheEolian · 11 pointsr/TheDollop

If you want to read a good book about Mormon fundamentalists in the US, try John Krakaeur's book Under the Banner of Heaven - it's really interesting.

u/Nibble_on_this · 10 pointsr/politics

This is such a great short summary. You have a gift.

Another great book about the LDS sect is Under the Banner of Heaven: A Story of Violent Faith, by Jon Krakauer (of Into the Wild and Into Thin Air fame). Excellent reporting and harrowing as fuck.

Fun fact: the mormon power structure hated that book so much they tried to have it removed from shelves in many Utah and Idaho bookstores.

u/Deucer22 · 9 pointsr/TwoXChromosomes

You are unfortunately wrong. Read Under the Banner of Heaven.

http://www.amazon.com/Under-Banner-Heaven-Story-Violent/dp/1400032806

u/BigScarySmokeMonster · 9 pointsr/pics

No, there aren't. Here's a very good history book about the subject.

Jon Krakauer's Under the Banner of Heaven has a lot of horrible facts about Mormon polygamy in it. Obviously you haven't read that.

Here's a piece about Elizabeth Smart as more evidence.

Wikipedia entry about the FLDS, whose president Warren Jeffs was just this year sentenced to life + 20 for fucking little girls.

You may choose to believe that Mormons don't practice plural marriage, but it's absolutely not true.

u/remmycool · 6 pointsr/worldnews

I've met abusive families before, but this was different. This was two young girls, neither of whom would have weighed more than 110 pounds, independently telling me that they were afraid of what their father would do if they broke his rules. And I don't mean "My dad would get so mad if he knew I smoked," I mean "My dad would beat me with a belt if he knew I danced with boys." Serious shit.

I didn't have a problem with polygamy until I read Under the Banner of Heaven by Jon Krakauer, which is about fundamentalist Mormon polygamist families. The girls in those households are quite literally brainwashed from birth into believing that they are worth less than men and that a man owns his wife. They frequently get coerced into marrying men in their 40's or 50's as soon as they hit puberty. Although they technically make their own free decision to marry, they are told that they'll be excommunicated from the only community they've ever known if they refuse to marry the man they've been chosen by. It's fucking sick.

Cults sometimes do illegal things, but not always. More frequently, they legally build towards an illegal goal. That's not why we oppose them though. Cults are extremely manipulative and often get people to completely drop out of life and devote themselves to a charismatic leader. I've studied them before, they're very very bad things.

Anti-bullying campaigns are usually pretty dumb, but they do serve a point. Young people are very sensitive to peer pressure. Western girls get pressured into eating disorders to conform to their society's ideals. In the same way, Muslim girls get pressured into hiding themselves from the world. Although Muslim girls frequently get quoted saying "I choose this for myself," you can't deny the fact that their brothers and fathers are leaning on them. As I mentioned with the story of the girls I went to school with, a lot of Muslim women live in fear of the men in their life.

This is not a simple matter of free expression. It's not like they're banning Uggs or Crocs simply because they're ugly. The veil is a tool used to oppress women. It stands as a barrier between the woman and the outside world. It reminds me of the line from Shawshank Redemption about prison.

(quoted from memory, not perfect)
"These walls are kind of funny. First you hate them, then you get used to them. After a while you can't imagine living without them"

u/Oadiew · 6 pointsr/atheism

An excellent book that covers the progression of the LDS and its fundamental strain is Under the Banner of Heaven.

u/ognits · 5 pointsr/SubredditDrama

I'm even fascinated by Mormons in particular, but what you're describing is just way too much for me. Have you ever read Jon Krakauer's Under the Banner of Heaven? It's about a murder that two Mormon brothers commit (thinking they received the order to do so from God) while also diving in to the history of Mormonism as a whole and how it might have influenced the two into doing what they did, and it's fantastic. It's structured like narrative non-fiction along the lines of Capote's In Cold Blood or Larsson's Devil in the White City.

u/TheHoundsOFLove · 5 pointsr/philadelphia

Most of my knowledge of Mormons comes from Under The Banner of Heaven by Jon Krakauer which is a fascinating book, but yeah there is apparently some inherent racism in their (original) beliefs. Not that all modern Mormons are racists of course, but they've def. had some fucked up ideas about black people in the past...

u/lemon_meringue · 4 pointsr/bestof

please consider reading this book, paying special attention to the chapters that discuss the history of the mormon organization:

Under the Banner of Heaven: A Story of Violent Faith

u/Dogzillas_Mom · 4 pointsr/JUSTNOMIL

>Last thing you need to know, the in-laws are VERY LDS (Mormons) and we are very not.

Ah. There it is. Fucking mormons with their ridiculous ideas about booze. One beer = falling down gutter drunk who has thrown their entire life away. It's insane.

I'm an exmo and I am so sorry about these people. They believe they are God's chosen people and truly, that they are better than you and everyone else. So therefore, they think they deserve to steal your child from you because a lifetime of religious cult brainwashing is better than if mom has one beer after the kid goes to bed at night. /s

Get a really good lawyer to defend yourselves, obvs. I'm sure that working with CPS and the Guardian ad litem is helping your case as they see y'all are working hard and are good parents.

Document the damages. The court costs, lawyer's fees, therapy, security measures taken around your home, any above-and-beyond hard expenses that you've incurred as a result of defending your family from religious cultists. Hell, I'd get a lawyer on board with Steve Hassan's work on exiting cults and start painting your in laws as Jim Jones type brainwashed cultists. Make THEM look like the unfit parents because they are.

Then find a personal injury attorney--they don't get paid unless you do, so initial consultations are free. If they think they can win your case, and you've collected sufficient evidence that their campaign to steal your children has traumatized you and your child(ren), they will take your case and go after them for every dime they can squeeze out.

There are two other books that can help you build a case that mormonism is actually a dangerous cult and your children are far safer with their own loving parents than these unhinged religious nutcases. (I know, I know, but mormons are soooo dang nice. I lived that shit and mormons are NOT nice behind closed doors. They are nice in public so people don't realize how terrible their cult actually is.)

One book, "Recovering Agency" is one of the best about exiting mormonism. The other one, is a story about a horrible murder, but the early chapters really lay out how mormons are mind controlled and where all their wonky doctrine comes from. Those books, plus Steve Hassan's BITE model regarding how to define a cult, could be super useful in laying a case that these mormon grandparents may very well be dangerous AF. You might also read Elizabeth Smart's book about her kidnapping because the people who kidnapped her were trying to start an offshoot cult of their own -- the kidnapper/rapist was an excommunicated mormon who thought the mormon church was too modern and liberal.

I strongly suggest doing some reading and making your attorney aware of relevant portions that might help you fight back ONCE the custody bullshit is resolved. Until then, document, document, document, and let your attorney do all the talking.

u/kodie131 · 4 pointsr/explainlikeimfive

Well, there's this banned Mormon cartoon that was for kids explaining Mormonism. You'd have to be batshit to think any of it was "logical."

And then more seriously if you're looking to see the history of Mormonism, it's beliefs, history, etc., I can't suggest Under the Banner of Heaven: A Story of Violent Faith by Jon Krakauer enough. Although it does focus more on the FLDS, it's extremely fascinating and really dives into the religion.

Both religions are pretty crazy, but Mormonism is just considered slightly more for its very shady origins.

u/[deleted] · 4 pointsr/MorbidReality

If you want more information on these child molesters, this book has some pretty disgusting details.

u/slackjaw79 · 3 pointsr/exmormon

You should also read this book.

u/blokaycupid · 3 pointsr/books

My mom has a lot of good things to say about Under the Banner of Heaven. It's about the fundamental polygamist communities in Utah and Arizona.

u/Girl_with_the_Curl · 3 pointsr/Broadway

The show will basically tell you everything you need to know, but in a nutshell: gold plates, Utah, Joseph Smith, mission, magic underwear. On a serious note, if you'd like to read up on the history of Mormonism in America, I'd recommend borrowing [Under the Banner of Heaven] (https://www.amazon.com/dp/1400032806/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_gzNczbGTWMEVV) by Jon Krakauer from the library. He's one of my favorite non-fiction writers and even if you don't read the entire book (which deals mostly with Mormon fundamentalists, i.e. polygamists), there are several early chapters that will tell you more than you need to know about how Mormonism developed as a religion and what Mormons believe.

u/bellingman · 3 pointsr/todayilearned

Read Under the Banner of Heaven by Jon Krakauer (author of "Into Thin Air")

u/AntediluvianEmpire · 3 pointsr/todayilearned

This book is worth reading; it gives a pretty solid history and context for Mormonism.

u/Morgan_Sparlock · 3 pointsr/exjw
u/jpoRS · 3 pointsr/Outdoors
  • Deeper/Further/(Eventually)Higher - If I can't be out riding, might as well watch people riding things I never could.
  • Anything by Jon Krakauer. Into the Wild is an obvious choice, but Eiger Dreams and Under the Banner of Heaven are great as well.
  • Ride the Divide is a good flick as well, and available on Netflix last I checked.
  • 3point5. Pro-deal pricing can be addicting.Plus being in the top 5% for snowboarding, camping, and running have to count for something, right?!
u/gblancag · 2 pointsr/booksuggestions

I'm not a huge non-fiction reader but I really loved Under the Banner of Heaven and Freakonomics

u/DontHalfACow · 2 pointsr/IAmA

Have you read Under the Banner of Heaven?

It's a great read, but it feels like he sensationalizes some stories about the church as well as puts forward a generally negative portrayal of the Mormonism in general. Then again, from some of the history he presents the criticism feels merited. I'd be curious what your thoughts were on it from an LDS perspective.

u/Smileylol · 2 pointsr/todayilearned

If you're interested check out Under the Banner of Heaven

It's a book about religious extremism (and Mormonism specifically) and does a fantastic job opening a window into the minds of these people. It's not as much about the average mormon but does go into your question quite a bit.

u/Juanitoelgringo · 2 pointsr/MorbidReality

These guys may have Utah's polygamist child molesters beat out for the title of World's Sickest.

This book has more info on our perverts.

u/jeremy3am · 2 pointsr/IAmA
u/Stubb · 1 pointr/atheism

Perhaps give him a copy of Under the Banner of Heaven and discuss it with him afterward? Among other things, it's a biography of the hustler that founded the religion. The basis of the religion is completely absurd: golden tablets and magic spectacles my ass.

u/gotterdammerung · 1 pointr/AskReddit

I am also a research scientist, so I like reading non-fiction that has nothing to do with Klenow fragments or PCR. Examples are The Devil in the White City by Eric Larson, which is about both the 1893 World's Fair in Chicago and a serial killer; or Under the Banner of Heaven by Jon Krakauer, which is about how truly bizarre Mormons are. Both authors have other excellent books, as well.

u/FrigOffCyrus · 1 pointr/ImGoingToHellForThis

But polygamy is very much alive out west. Polygamists pretty much take over or establish their own towns where they control literally everything (all of the local business, government, etc.) and as such, the practice can't be stopped. Look into Jon Krakauer's Under the Banner of Heaven to see what I'm talking about.

The Mormon church has always been the most violent (quasi) Christian sect and their history is dominated by violence between the church and locals or the federal government. Brigham Young only officially rid the church of polygamy under the threat of force from the government. The president at the time (forget which one exactly) threatened to send the army to invade the Utah territory if polygamy wasn't ended. Wasn't exactly a willing forfeiture from the Mormons. A practice, no doubt, started because their so-called prophet Joseph Smith couldn't keep it in his pants when living in a boarding house.

Mormons do a lot of the same practices that conservative Muslims do. Instead of hijabs/burqas, it's ankle-length dresses and turtlenecks with that weird magic underwear. Polygamy is/was a major practice by both religions as well.

u/RidiculousIncarnate · 1 pointr/atheism

If you really want to read a book about Mormonism that will drive you to put your head through a wall (Aside from the Book of Mormon itself) head to the library and grab a copy of Under the Banner of Heaven.

I read that book mostly out of curiosity and afterwards I couldn't even understand how I could be so infuriated with a group of people for their lack of objective thinking.

Anyways, it's a fascinating and relatively concise read that includes the history and founding of the LDS church.

u/Hindu_Wardrobe · 1 pointr/atheism

Mormonism is fascinating. A bit terrifying at times (this is an excellent read), but a really fascinating system of beliefs.

Still all bullshit but it's fun to investigate sometimes.

u/demian_slc · 1 pointr/SaltLakeCity

Start with Under the Banner of Heaven, /r/SaltLakeCity, and then slowly walk back your reticence. Utah is great, has quirks but is awesome. Seriously though, your job is relating and selling to Utahns? EDIT: spelling

u/savois-faire · 1 pointr/books

I've had to read quite a few books about religious cults in particular as part of a study a while back. Some that were helpful to me (obviously I don't know what your study is supposed to be) then:

Under the banner of heaven by Jon Krakauer

Raven: the untold story of Reverend Jim Jones and his people by Tim Reiterman

Jesus Freaks: A true story of murder and madness on the evangelical edge by Don Lattin

u/TheGesus · 1 pointr/atheism
u/juuular · 1 pointr/atheism

> but if that same extremist group simply replaced religion with nationalism they'd be killing immigrants and then people are still dead.

But they would stop killing homosexuals, cutting off women's clitorises, and many more atrocities that are specifically religious in nature.

Without religion, the world would become more peaceful and less atrocities would be committed.

I fully agree that plenty of nationalistic groups would still commit atrocities, but it would be to a much lesser extent. Nationalistic groups are also much easier to displace than religion that pervades all aspects of certain societies.

I'm not talking about the books specifically, I'm talking about what people do in the book's name. Sometimes that is just a cover for corrupt leaders to seize control; corruption and violence have always been part of our society and will always be a part of it.

Leaders like Stalin and Hitler will always exist somewhere in the world, no one's debating that.

It's ridiculous though to then ignore genuine examples every day of physical and mental violence committed because of religion, especially on a smaller scale than the leaders of a country using it to seize power.

My family has an FLDS background and I've seen firsthand some of the atrocities

Many of the FLDS leaders and leaders of other religions, especially on a local level, do these things because of their religion and because they genuinely believe it is God's will, not because they're trying to seize more economic power. This is undeniable, and that sort of violence simply wouldn't exist without religion.

This is a great book that dives into the FLDS culture and the motivations that lead to murder and the enslavement of women — a perfect example of what I'm talking about as well as just a really great book in general.

u/mcquintessence · 1 pointr/todayilearned

Dude was sly: He went to Missouri to evade legal action on the part of a wealthy man that he convinced of the existence of a motherlode of precious metals which Smith foresaw using a "seeing stone." Utah is the only state to declare war on the Union. One of the more interesting of Smith's abilities was that to commune with god and dictate the Doctrines and Covenants (now a power only granted to president of LDS and rarely used at that). Polygamy was an addition via the D&C's revealed to Smith after falling in love with a woman outside of his marriage.

Source: Trying to be as accurate as I can by memory from reading Under the Banner of Heaven

u/TongueDartTheFartB0x · 1 pointr/vermont

>Also...this has nothing to do with religious cults

lol, good one! this is 100% religious based, no matter what that douchebag guy says.

>Then again, I'm not predisposed to link Mormons with brutal religious cults.

may I offer some light reading to you then?

http://www.amazon.com/Under-Banner-Heaven-Story-Violent/dp/1400032806?ie=UTF8&keywords=under%20the%20banner%20of%20heaven&qid=1464441817&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1

u/Nessie · 1 pointr/exmuslim

https://www.amazon.com/Under-Banner-Heaven-Story-Violent/dp/1400032806

>Jon Krakauer’s literary reputation rests on insightful chronicles of lives conducted at the outer limits. He now shifts his focus from extremes of physical adventure to extremes of religious belief within our own borders, taking readers inside isolated American communities where some 40,000 Mormon Fundamentalists still practice polygamy. Defying both civil authorities and the Mormon establishment in Salt Lake City, the renegade leaders of these Taliban-like theocracies are zealots who answer only to God.

>At the core of Krakauer’s book are brothers Ron and Dan Lafferty, who insist they received a commandment from God to kill a blameless woman and her baby girl. Beginning with a meticulously researched account of this appalling double murder, Krakauer constructs a multi-layered, bone-chilling narrative of messianic delusion, polygamy, savage violence, and unyielding faith. Along the way he uncovers a shadowy offshoot of America’s fastest growing religion, and raises provocative questions about the nature of religious belief.

u/romario77 · 1 pointr/atheism

Right, sorry, I read a book a while ago:
http://www.amazon.com/Under-Banner-Heaven-Story-Violent/dp/1400032806 , didn't remember the name right.

u/mirocj · 0 pointsr/DotA2


160 years ago, Mormons attacked, captured, and murdered at point-blank range an estimated 120 innocent pioneers traveling from Arkansas to California. Among the killed in the Mountain Meadows Massacre were 50 children.

From Jon Krakauer's Under the Banner of Heaven:
> Out of the entire Fancher wagon train, only seventeen lives were spared — all of them children no more than five years old, deemed too young to remember enough to bear witness against the [Mormons].
> Those children not killed were taken to Mormon homes to be raised as Latter-day Saints; some were placed in households of the very men who had murdered their parents and siblings. In 1859 an agent of the federal government managed to find all seventeen survivors and return them to their Arkansas kin, but before handing the kids over, their Mormon keepers had the audacity to demand thousands of dollars in payment for feeding and schooling the youngsters while they were in the [Mormons'] care.

The Mormons had convinced a contingent of Southern Paiute Indian warriors to accompany them on the raid, painting their own white faces dark to look like their Paiute accomplices in an attempt to avoid blame. From Krakauer:

> The Mormon militiamen, [Mormon military leader John D.] Lee reported, "piled the dead bodies up in heaps, in little gullies, and threw dirt over them. The bodies were only lightly covered, for the ground was hard, and the brethren did not have sufficient tools to dig with." Within days, wolves and other scavengers had scattered their remains across the meadow.
> Upon completion of this halfhearted, hastily undertaken burial, according to Lee, the [Mormons] gathered in a circle at the site of the mass murder to offer "thanks to God for delivering our enemies into our hands." Then the overseers of the massacre reiterated "the necessity of always saying the Indians did it alone, and that the Mormons had nothing to do with it...It was voted unanimously that any man who should divulge the secret, or tell who was present, or do anything that would lead to a discovery of the truth, should suffer death."

Further reading:
https://www.britannica.com/event/Mountain-Meadows-massacre
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_massacre
https://www.amazon.com/Under-Banner-Heaven-Story-Violent/dp/1400032806
https://www.amazon.com/Mountain-Meadows-Massacre-Juanita-Brooks/dp/0806123184

u/atheist_teapot · 0 pointsr/AskReddit

As said before, if everyone is consenting, and adults, then fine.

However, polygamy is usually associated with repressive religious views, such as FLDS or certain Islamic sects (though there are many others). Usually, in these super-religious sects, young members are forced to believe and participate in these marriages because of threats of ever-lasting damnation, and forced to believe in its "spirituality." Rumors of sexual abuse are also common (vis a vis incest and child molestation) in addition to men of advanced age marrying teenagers.

This is John Krakuer's amazing book, Under the Banner of Heaven, it does not exclusively discuss polygamy, but it is certainly central to the narrative. It's a bit dated, but only because it deals with Warren Jeffs and his community, and we should know how that story turned out.

u/upstart_crow · -10 pointsr/videos

Is a video of a guy dancing is all it takes to convince someone to find merit in a cult? If the Book of Mormon (the play) wasn't enough, try reading Under the Banner of Heaven by Jon Krakauer for a great exposé of what Mormonism is about.

edit: added the word "in"