(Part 2) Best christian faith books according to redditors

Here are some book suggestions. I have not read them, but they are on my reading list.

Why I Became an Atheist: A Former Preacher Rejects Christianity

Godless: How an Evangelical Preacher Became One of America's Leading Atheists

Losing My Religion: How I Lost My Faith Reporting on Religion in America and Found Unexpected Peace

> > Eagleton himself is an atheist

> [citation needed]

He says as much in his book Reason, Faith, and Revolution: Reflections on the God Debate.

Here are some ideas.

RC Sproul's Essential Truths of the Christian Faith is a great summary of many key ideas.

His The Holiness of God is a classic that packs quite the punch.

Also by Sproul, The Crucial Question booklet series is a great series of shorter booklets that explore a few important topics in a bit more depth without being overwhelming.

Sproul's What is Reformed Theology? is a decent overview that is pretty approachable.

Beeke's Living for God's Glory is a decent introduction that I think can be helpful in that it starts to unpack some of the broader implications.

Looking at creeds and confessions is also solid. Here are decent ones for the Westminster Confession of Faith (and this one too) and Westminster Shorter Catechism and the Heidelberg Catechism.

In case you want to watch instead, Ligonier Ministries will post 1 free video from their teaching series every day.

As for listening, there is Renewing Your Mind

Congratulations! That's fantastic.

I've not been to seminary myself (although maybe in a few years . . . . ), but I did major in Biblical languages as an undergrad, teach in a joint program with my local seminary and have a number of freinds who are seminary faculty. My recommendations based on that:

• Academically, I think the best thing you can do is learn the Greek alphabet before you start Greek I. Both writing and pronunciation.
  That alone will give you a big head start. I'd also encourage you to get started on the languages right away.
  
• My college roommate now teaches theology at one of the RTS campuses. When my brother-in-law started seminary, I asked him for a recommendation for a gift. He recommended Kelly Kapic's A Little Book for New Theologians: Why and How to Study Theology
  
• From what I gather, many seminarians struggle with maintaining personaly devotion/piety in seminary. A book about spiritual discipline, such as Kent Hugh's Disciplines of a Godly Man could be beneficial.

Losing Faith in Faith: From Preacher to Atheist by Dan Barker

edit: or Atheism: A Philosophical Justification by Michael Martin

Why don't you try Dan Barker's book? "Losing Faith in Faith" He was a Preacher and became an atheist through time. Great story.

There is also "Why I Became an Atheist: A Former Preacher Rejects Christianity"

Oh, I almost forgot William Lobdell. He covered religion for the LA Times for years but after reporting so much on religion he became an atheist. Here's his site and here's his book "Losing My Religion: How I Lost My Faith Reporting on Religion in America and Found Unexpected Peace"

Good luck!

edit:fixed link
edit2:fixed grammatical error

In what sense?

"Here's why I think God let the Devil trick humans with dinosaurs"?

Or "Here's how dinosaurs/evolution fits into the creation narrative"?

For the latter, Michael Dowd's Thank God for Evolution: How the Marriage of Science and Religion Will Transform Your Life and Our World is rather wonderful.

I am glad that you love to question things! Never stop asking questions. Your faith may decrease, but you will be a better person in the end.

>I was told by a pastor yesterday to view truth as a person not a proposition. If this is the case would truth then be prone to flaws?

I imagine that the pastor is trying to say that Jesus is "the truth." This line is similar to, "Christianity is a relationship, not a religion." It is an attempt to market Christianity in a more palatable form, but it is strictly speaking incoherent.

>Why does God alllow suffering?

Great question. I highly recommend the book God's Problem: How the Bible Fails to Answer Our Most Important Question--Why We Suffer. To summarize different biblical authors have different answers to the question of why we suffer, and none are satisfactory.

>If feel we're being told to do something, so we do it but i.e prophesie for someone or pray in tongues for someone and we were wrong then we learn from it and learn to discern Gods voice better. To me this just seems like a way of saying we're wrong and because God is all powerful and all knowing then we should be able to know if it is God?

I would argue that what you are seeing is the attempt to resolve cognitive dissonance that occurs when reality does not match what would reasonably be expected to happen if the Bible was true. Think about this the next time a supposed prophecy fails, or someone prays for healing but is not healed.

>Why doesn't God just reveal himself to the world?

Another great question. If God loves the world enough to send his son to die for it, and he is all-powerful, why wouldn't he reveal himself? What do you think is the most reasonable explanation? I can give you my flippant atheist answer: because god does not exist. But I will leave it to you to ponder this question.

>What happened to people who weren't Jews before Jesus came to save us? I.e Jonah and the Ninevites - they were not Jews. So what would their fate be?

Christians differ greatly in their answers to this question. Some will say that since God has revealed himself in some way to everyone who has ever lived, then anyone who does not accept Jesus deserves and will receive everlasting torment in Hell. Others, like Abraham, might ask, "Will not the judge of all the earth do right?" They will then speculate that God gives each person one last chance to hear the gospel after they die, or deny the reality of Hell altogether.

>Couldn't it be argued that all beliefs that come from nature are from God and therefore they would be saved?

I suppose that you could make the case for this, but the outcome is far from certain if we look at the Bible. We might wonder, what can we discern about the character of God if we look at nature? We might look only at beautiful things and conclude that God is good and loving; or, we might look at examples of suffering, cruelty, and brutality and conclude that God is bloodthirsty and wicked. While Jesus says that God feeds all animals, we can demonstrate that this statement is false by observing that animals (including humans) starve to death all of the time. We might also wonder why, if God reveals himself through nature, people in different parts of the world tend to come up with exactly the same concept of God, which is mutually exclusive with concepts of God found in other regions.

I don't think I have answered all of your questions, but I hope that I have piqued your curiosity. :)

You should start reading Christian Universalist books. I think it will help calm you down and give you some new grounding. Here's an easy read: https://www.amazon.com/Love-Wins-About-Heaven-Person-ebook/dp/B004IWR3CE

​

And here's one by an article by a respected philosopher: http://campuspress.yale.edu/keithderose/1129-2/

I grew up in an Assembly of God church. Basically I was taught that speaking in tongues was the main gift that everyone needed and would/could receive in faith through prayer. No tongues? That meant you were not spirit filled as far as the teaching I received. I don't agree with that anymore, necessarily, as I have seen people operate in other gifts and they don't speak in tongues, but I still ponder if this gift is available to them and they just don't know it or have not desired to do so?

Anyway, I do believe I received this gift at a very young age (I was 11 or 12. Around that age.) But I had no idea what the purpose was for this gift that was supposedly so important to our church. I mean, there were what were called "messages in tongues" during services, usually on Sunday night. There would be a reverent hush in the room and then someone would pray in tongues and then an interpretation would follow. That was actually very cool. The words were generally exhortations of God being there and His pleasure, maybe a little correction but always with grace. But other than that I didn't really get it. It seemed altogether strange to me and illogical.

I found myself at a different kind of Charismatic church a few years later. Although this church wasn't opposed to tongues at all, speaking in tongues took a "back seat" to other more exciting gifts. They loved prophecy and words for sure. But I found that there was a lack of accountability in some ways to the giving of these words. I had a bad experience with a supposed "word" that was obviously not of the Holy Spirit so I found myself out of charismatic circles for a couple decades.

I am back again, partially because the Holy Spirit began to stir in me a desire to pray in tongues more. I finally understood the need for this gift after reading this book: http://www.daveroberson.org/books.aspx Free on Amazon too: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ARFNII4/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

In preparation for a mission trip I was taking I decided to take the advice of Dave Roberson, the author of the book, and see what God would do if I just prayed in tongues for a year leading up to the trip. I just prayed for about 10 minutes a day. Not long really. I had (still have) a difficult time focusing longer than that when praying in the Spirit. But I made it a much more regular habit. Not much changed during that year, but when I was in India I started to see visions. The visions became a catalyst for some major changes and a huge shift in how I see the Kingdom of God, all my priorities in life began to change as well.

My husband and I felt the Lord calling us to a new church a little over a year ago. This one is open to tongues, but they do not allow messages unless they are filtered through one of the elders first. This seems odd, but I have seen first hand how there is misuse in the church. Perhaps they don't have much of a choice at this point. Not sure, honestly. But I am glad to be back at a church that is open to the Holy Spirit speaking to us, moving in our midst. It is very refreshing in many ways. I should still pray in tongues more than I do though, as with the gift cool things happen. Here are a couple of my recent personal stories I have shared on here related to this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/6hae0m/help_for_christians_to_being_more_sensitive_in/diwvxbg/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/6d1ith/when_did_tongues_in_1_corinthians_start_referring/dhz91rl/

Here ya go

And this one: http://www.amazon.com/The-Westminster-Confession-Faith-Classes/dp/0875525938

Great!

Question: Would the Christian origins series be better to start with?

OR, if I want to get into Wright and Paul would the 2 volume set "Paul and the faithfulness of God" be okay? I'm thinking maybe the overview of "Paul and his recent interpreters" might be better.

Not directly relating to marriage, but:

Disciplines of a Godly Man

If you become a better man (we all have room for improvement), then you'll be a better husband & this will impact your marriage.

The standard set in the book is very high/daunting, but it shows what is possible & what we should be aiming for.

Sacred Marriage

The main idea of this book is that marriage should make you holy, not happy.

We would all do well to remember that, because he's absolutely right, from my experience (not that I've become too holy!)

Uhh...God is punishing you for not doing what he wants? I don't know at this point.

Maybe I should reread this because apparently nobody has any idea of why bad shit happens when speaking from the biblical standpoint.

If anyone else in interested in a similar deal:

• Season 1 on DVD used for around $5 from Amazon Marketplace
  
  
• The book used for around $4 from Amazon Marketplace

I've read a book about snake handlers on Sand Mtn, AL. Salvation on Sand Mountain .
Good read. I've never been in a service with snakes but a couple of times I've been in a service when people were speaking in tongues. Not my thing.

This study guide on the WCF might be useful to you and your group.

Grace and peace.

Some ideas - you could modify your schedule a bit and not make it as rigorous. I've found that the more rigorous the change you're trying to make, the more difficult it can be to keep up the effort.

For example, growing up, we read the Bible together as a family every weekday before heading to school / work but we only did this on weekday mornings. And our total reading time was maybe 5-10 minutes, so it was manageable. Weekends were "off" so to speak with church being the only shared faith pursuit.

Recommendation for a book if you're looking for more ideas and things you can incorporate into your personal life and walk - Disciplines of a Godly Man.

Also, here's a similar thread over at /r/ChristianMarriage which can get some ideas: https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianmarriage/comments/9oifia/what_spiritual_disciplines_are_a_part_of_your/

Is it https://www.amazon.com/Salvation-Sand-Mountain-Redemption-Appalachia/dp/0306818361 ?

Per the indirect recommendation of /u/BSMason, check out Back to Basics: Rediscovering the Richness of the Reformed Faith. It's a winner.

I hate to do this, but there's a book out there regarding this exact topic and I feel that I HAVE to share it considering it really changed my life. I was in the same position as OP and was at a crossroads.. it really came at just the right time in my life.

Thank God for Evolution. Really, one of the best experiences of my life was working, getting frustrated, then pushing through this book despite my own personal biases. Really, I recommend it to atheists, nontheists, christians, muslims, everyone. I sincerely think anyone and everyone struggling with this dichotomy between religion and science could gain some enlightening insight through this book.

Happy reading :)

Pastor here. Are you thinking about ministry yourself? Are you reading for your own spiritual encouragement, or for equipping yourself?

Either way, here are some books I'd highly recommend:

Buechner's Telling the Truth: The Gospel as Tragedy, and Fairy Tale. Easily the best book on ministry and preaching I've ever read.

Chrysostom's On the Priesthood. Brilliant and insightful look into the nuances, dangers, and call of pastoral ministry. A MUST read.

C. Stephen Evan's Soren Kierkegaard's Christian Psychology. Easily one of the best books on diagnosing and understanding souls.

Baron Friedrich von Hugel's Letters to a Niece. A fabulous book of personal, pastoral care through letters. (You can even, if you like, read my review of it here.)

Personally, I would avoid Keller at this point. He's too new to the scene, and therefore a little un-tested. Read old books (or books about people who are long dead) first. Then you can read Keller later with a critical eye. (Of course, Buechner is still alive--but he's been around for a long time, and Telling the Truth is amazing.)

> Those of you who have been where I am, what really pushed you over the edge? What was that moment where you lost your religion?

For me (and my wife), it wasn't a single moment. Nor was it one single thing that sealed the deal. It was over years (~3?) of honest discussions and self-examination. The transition was much more difficult for my wife (who grew up having nightmares of being left behind after the rapture, couldn't wear pants or shorts without guilt, … couldn't really do anything without guilt).

So like the other commenters have said, continue on your journey. If you end up in a place where guilt and self-loathing are your daily struggle, you'll figure out that you're doing it wrong :)

That said though, three things that might help.

1: There was a book my wife and I both read that we enjoyed: Losing My Religion. It presents a very honest struggle of the process you're describing.

2: You might want to see how many self-described atheists have been able to finally enjoy their lives once they shed the dogma they've been steeped in their whole lives. It's anecdote, but it seems to be really common amongst the few people I know who've gone through a deconversion.

3: Being a parent and really starting to think about unconditional love made me see Christianity (and other religions) in an entirely different light. I'm sure you've heard pastors wax poetic about how they finally understood "the Father heart of God" when they had children. But for me, religion is (in my experiences) a serious hinderance to true unconditional love of yourself, and of others.

Not super sure how Reddit works with old threads, but I think we'd all love to know how things work out and what you find helpful along the way.

Thanks for the reply. Given these two topics I think you may be interested in a book I read recently by Bart Ehrman called God's Problem which is based on a course he taught in seminary about the problem of suffering.

Given that your answer largely comes down to the answer that it's because we have free will, do you think we will have free will in heaven? Also, if God is responsible for making each of us, how is it possible that "some [people] are actually evil by nature?" Why would God make some people who are evil and how is someone being evil by nature compatible with free will?

Are there any subjects you're particularly interested in? I'll link a few below that I found very helpful, but I know everyone has different sorts of interests and stumbling blocks, so if there's something more specific you're looking for (or if you want more resources on a particular topic), let me know.

• Naturalistic explanation of "spiritual experiences": Church services and retreats, where most people have very moving spiritual experiences, have quite a lot in common with hypnotic manipulation techniques. Outside of these high-emotion environments, another interesting idea I've heard is that of simulacra, through which humans can manufacture and simulate their own ideas of how reality (and God) should be, and thus experience a deception. A personal testimonial that also drove the point home for me was that of a philosophy student who started to reexamine his faith through a more critical lens.
  
  
• Historical evidence for Jesus/gospels: According to Rational Wiki, there is very little reason to trust the gospels, and although it is likely that some historical Jesus existed, there is essentially no verification of his existence outside of the gospels until centuries later. Robert Price (Bible Geek podcast, which can be found in a number of places including here) also brings up some fantastic counterpoints to the most common apologetic arguments, and seems to really know his stuff. If you're interested in a book, I've also heard great things about Richard Carrier's On the Historicity of Jesus.
  
  
• Contradictions in the Bible: A good graphical representation on Bibviz that compiles a few different resources. This does list all apparent contradictions, even minor ones that most Christians can easily dispute or dismiss, but there are many others that are not as easy to dismiss. (For example, in Genesis 1 and 2, did plants or humans come first?) These are most effective when considered in opposition to Biblical inerrancy/infallibility. If inerrancy isn't a big deal to you, then this point isn't as important.
  
  
• Evolution: Talk Origins is an excellent tool for learning more about evolution if you've been brought up with creationism (either old earth or young earth). It has plenty of resources that very specifically counter the most common creationist arguments, and even has some point-by-point rebuttals to some creationist books. If inerrancy is something you struggle with, the fact of evolution can be a pretty big hit, since the creation story doesn't only crop up in Genesis 1-12, but also in several places in the New Testament. If it's not, evolution isn't a huge deal, but is still fun to learn more about.
  
  
• Atrocities of God: The first thing that really got to me was seeing the Christian God as an abuser. As a Christian, I didn't like the comparison, but as I thought about it, I realized that all of it was true according to Biblical principles, and it bothered me. As I previously mentioned, God did condone rape in the OT. On top of that, the OT law commanded that you stone a woman who was found to not be a virgin on her wedding night. I'm sure there are plenty others, but these stood out to me. They don't disprove Yahweh's existence, but they do show that he's not such a "loving" God as Christians claim. A rebuttal I've heard (though not a good one), is that obviously a loving God can do these things, because he (or at least biblical authors) claim that he's loving, and also record him doing these things. Those are opposing claims; they cannot both be true, at least with a healthy understanding of what it means to be loving.
  
  
• Hell: The most common interpretation is that anyone who doesn't explicitly believe in/follow Jesus will be subject to eternal damnation and torture. There are other interpretations. C.S. Lewis clearly seemed to give some leeway in who went to hell (as evidenced in The Chronicles of Narnia: The Last Battle), and at least wanted to believe that everyone had a chance at heaven, even after death (as evidenced in The Great Divorce). Rob Bell also wants to believe that everyone will go to heaven (see Love Wins), although I think many people called this book heretical. Another alternative explanation I've read supported the idea of annihilation for non-believers, rather than eternal punishment, which had far better Biblical support than I expected. Personally, I couldn't rationalize God punishing people for simply not believing in him, given how scant the evidence is in favor of Christianity, or how God could punish people who left the church because of how Christians abused them in God's name. On the other hand, if you check out what Jesus says about hell in the gospels, he seems to imply that these groups would receive hellfire and punishment of some sort. It's not so easily dismissed.
  
  
• Natural Disasters: Not a source, but the problem of suffering is one that Christians have never been able to adequately explain. Sure, you can pin human-inflicted suffering on sin, but natural disasters? Not so much. Think of the tsunamis that kill hundreds of thousands of people around the Indian Ocean (most being Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist, or otherwise non-Christian), many of whom have likely never heard the Christian gospel. These people are doomed to eternal punishment, and it's because of God's creation alone. Even if you assume they don't automatically get sent to hell, what physical or even spiritual good could this possibly accomplish? This, in my opinion, is inexcusable.
  
  Anyway, that ended up being way longer than I intended, but hopefully some of the sources help you. At the very least, it should give you something to think about and some possible topics to consider when evaluating your religious beliefs.

Read a book called "Losing My Religion" buy a LA times columnist, absolutely, whats the word....Horrifying. Basically this Columnist is investigating the catholic church in America and the level of pure sadistic evil by the Catholic Church makes Enron execs and Bankers look like saints.

Edit: link to book

http://www.amazon.com/Losing-My-Religion-Reporting-Unexpected/dp/0061626813

I heard she's having a feud with the hand model of this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Words-Live-Guide-Merely-Christian/dp/0061209120/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1239396110&sr=1-1

You were bullied. Have you let go of the trauma? Have you forgiven your bullies? Have you blessed them? Thanked them? The spirit of fear, resentment, depression, timidity can follow you for decades unless you take care of these issues. I know from personal experience. It took me 20 years to process it fully. But bad experiences can also be turned into a strength as you help others.

I see you have the desire to grow, so I’m gonna link you to my favorite book on spiritual growth. It’s free on Kindle. It’s so powerful that it completely turned my life upside down as God started refining me for his service. This method of praying will dig up and process every roadblock that stands in your way.

Correct, for that time, and it's sad that the churches does not teach this correctly, but tongues also allows the Holy Spirit to pray for us in our weakness and edifies the soul. There's a great book about this that can help you understand - and it's free!

https://www.amazon.com/Walk-Spirit-Power-Praying-Tongues-ebook/dp/B00ARFNII4


“For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also. Otherwise, if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider say “Amen” to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying? For you may be giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not being built up. I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue” (1 Corinthians 14:14-19).

None of the top comments actually answer your question, instead they are dismissive and unhelpful. One can find many books that attempt to lay out a rational argument for Christianity. I have two of the most popular on my shelf right now:

• [The Case for Christ] (http://www.amazon.com/Case-Christ-Journalists-Personal-Investigation/dp/0310209307)
  
• [A Ready Defense] (http://www.amazon.com/Ready-Defense-Best-Josh-Mcdowell/dp/0840744196)
  
  Most involve an argument that hinges on providing evidence that the bible is a reliable source of information. Then they go on to show that there is supporting evidence for the accounts in the Bible, like the Resurrection of Christ.

Reason, Faith, and Revolution by Terry Eagleton. Don't let the three stars throw you off; read the user reviews on the front page. Fascinating book that takes a hard, honest look at both sides.

Art and the Bible by Francis Schaeffer

Edit: Also Telling the Truth: The Gospel as Tragedy, Comedy, and Fairy Tale by Frederick Buechner and Orthodoxy by G.K. Chesterton (this one isn't specifically about beauty but I think it addresses the subject nicely).

One of my personal favorites is Know What you Believe by Paul Little:

https://www.amazon.com/Know-What-Believe-Paul-Little/dp/0830834230

Good, entry level outline of Christian doctrine and apologetics.

I hope others chime in on this thread, but since you are currently studying theology, might I recommend a few books.

1. The Bible.
   
2. The Westminster Confession of Faith [Link]
   (https://www.amazon.com/Westminster-Confession-Faith-Study-Classes/dp/0875525938/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1498266473&sr=8-4&keywords=westminster+confession+of+faith)
   
3. The Shorter Catechism [Link]
   (https://www.amazon.com/Westminster-Shorter-Catechism-Study-Classes/dp/0875525210/ref=pd_bxgy_14_img_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=0875525210&pd_rd_r=W404ZWCAQ8CDBHZDTBSZ&pd_rd_w=KwuFQ&pd_rd_wg=TtA6X&psc=1&refRID=W404ZWCAQ8CDBHZDTBSZ)
   
4. The Larger Catechism [Link]
   (https://www.amazon.com/Westminster-Larger-Catechism-Johannes-Geerhardus-ebook/dp/B004MDLJO2/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1498266588&sr=1-2&keywords=westminster+larger+catechism) ( I haven't read the commentary on this one)
   
5. Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion Link
   
   

>...Progressive Christianity is an approach to the Christian faith that is influenced by post-liberalism and postmodernism and: proclaims Jesus of Nazareth as Christ, Savior, and Lord; emphasizes the Way and teachings of Jesus, not merely His person; emphasizes God’s immanence not merely God’s transcendence; leans toward panentheism rather than supernatural theism; emphasizes salvation here and now instead of primarily in heaven later; emphasizes being saved for robust, abundant/eternal life over being saved from hell; emphasizes the social/communal aspects of salvation instead of merely the personal; stresses social justice as integral to Christian discipleship; takes the Bible seriously but not necessarily literally, embracing a more interpretive, metaphorical understanding; emphasizes orthopraxy instead of orthodoxy (right actions over right beliefs); embraces reason as well as paradox and mystery — instead of blind allegiance to rigid doctrines and dogmas; does not consider homosexuality to be sinful; and does not claim that Christianity is the only valid or viable way to connect to God (is non-exclusive).

>The resistance against demythologization expresses itself in literalism. The symbols and myths are understood in their immediate meaning. The material, taken from nature and history, is used in its proper sense. The character of the symbol to point beyond itself to something else is disregarded. Creation is taken as a magic act which happened once upon a time. The fall of Adam is localized on a special geographical point and attributed to a human individual. The virgin birth of the Messiah is understood in biological terms, resurrection and ascension as physical events, the second coming of Christ as a telluric, or cosmic, catastrophe. The presupposition of such literalism is that God is a being, acting in time and space, dwelling in a special place, affecting the course of events and being affected by them like any other being in the universe. Literalism deprives God of his ultimacy and, religiously speaking, of his majesty. It draws him down to the level of that which is not ultimate, the finite and conditional.

Your explanation would work if we were talking about a couple operating according to mainstream religious standards. The Christians and Muslims that you're accustomed to take everything very literally--"my Bible is right and things that contradict it can't be true," etc.

However, Reza explains that he and his wife approach religion in a very different way. It actually reminds me a lot about what a Christian theologian named Paul Tillich said in his book Dynamics of Faith. Reza and his wife share a common faith and common beliefs, but they express those faiths in different ways. They each use different symbol systems because they feel that those different symbol systems work better for their individual personalities and faith expressions, not because they believe that one symbol system is inherently better than the other. They are just, as Reza said, two different ways to talk about faith--two different languages.

Tillich has been criticized by Christian fundamentalists and Biblical literalists for being what they consider to be basically atheist. They essentially use your argument--religion has to be based upon stories and people that were real and literal. Symbols and myths don't work. Reza and his wife have it wrong--it's not religion unless they're taking something totally literally and rejecting their reason and logic.

Maybe there's an argument here, but I just think it's a different worldview. Some people think that religion can only exist if you take things literally and shit on everyone else. Other people, Tillich, Reza, and myself, think that faith is something much more deep and important than believing that snakes can talk or that people can survive in the belly of a whale or that a man can rise from the dead. Faith is deep and essential, and we use symbols and myths to talk about it. Symbols are the language of faith. Once our society progresses to see that all religions are trying to get at the same core message but simply using different symbols, we'll be much better off. It's not productive to encourage people to think that if they follow one symbol system, they have to disagree with every other religion.

Praying in the spirit helped me. The Holy Spirit can help you deaden the desires.

From one Christian to another, I highly recommend that she read this:
http://www.amazon.com/Telling-Truth-Gospel-Tragedy-Comedy/dp/0060611561

http://www.amazon.com/Losing-My-Religion-Reporting-Unexpected/dp/0061626813

and

http://www.amazon.com/Gods-Problem-Answer-Important-Question-Why/dp/0061173975

I really enjoyed "Back to Basics: Rediscovering the Richness of the Reformed Faith"

http://www.amazon.com/Back-Basics-Rediscovering-Richness-Reformed/dp/0875522165

http://www.amazon.com/Gospel-According-Lost-Chris-Seay/dp/0849920728

I read this book! I can't remember if it was Answers for Difficult Days or Know What You Believe but either way it made total sense to easily-influenced thirteen year old me. Helped that it was taught to me by a man that I highly respected and trusted. He died mid-way through the semester, made that Worldview course a tad awkward.

Any death threat was very much something not originally in there, but read into it later on by the fanatical type of people Jesus was against. "Huffmon writes that the Ten Commandments were written with room for varying interpretation because they are fundamental. They are not as explicit or detailed as rules and regulations or many other biblical laws and commandments, because they provide guiding principles that apply universally, across changing circumstances. They do not specify punishments for their violation. Their precise import must be worked out in each separate situation." 1

I totally get your anger :( If things happened as I was originally taught that they were, it seems obscenely unjust. So, I'm trying to make sense of it as well. Since my understanding of the original intent of Genesis was as transcribing oral tradition legends, not as a literal historical work in the style we're familiar with, I interpret it that way. It was a massive shift of my perspective but an incredably liberating one.

This is not the most intellectually sound book, but if you're interested in contemporary Christian literature, its a quick read and its essence rang true for me.

Telling the Truth: The Gospel as Tragedy, Comedy, and Fairy Tale

Frederick Buechner

Hey, does anyone know that book that has black and white hands holding a red apple on the cover? The author used it as a vehicle for their particular brand of Christian dogma? I don't remember the name or who it's by.

Edit: found it

Losing faith in Faith. From pastor to atheist. You want to start with someone who is kind to and sensitive toward the theist position, not someone who will put her into a defensive posture.

An even better start might be letting go of god by Julia Sweeney. She doesn't have to commit to a book and Julia's presentation is smooth, funny, and really kind.

After those, if she can have a real discussion about science without feeling personally threatened, I'd have her read or listen to the demon haunted world by Carl Sagan. It's wonderfully accessible to the layman, covers the basics of the scientific mindset and reasoning, and is not specifically tarted against religion.

Good luck to you and remember: this stuff Isn't worth causing a lot of family strife over. so spend at least as much time working on how to have a conversation that everyone wants to participat in as you do in researching your arguments.

Also... Gnostic atheist? To that means you know for sure that there is no god at all. Is that what you mean?

From the top positive review of the book:

"Upon the alter of the church, many practice the art for years before finally being bitten that last time that leads to a painful death."

As "exhilarating" such a "test of faith" may be, it's an extrabiblical practice hung on the peg of a misreading of Mark 16, which has lead to unnecessary, costly deaths.

I choose to believe the book is parodying "Words to live by" by C.S Lewis.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Words-Live-Guide-Merely-Christian/dp/0061209120

For anyone wanting to read a seriously good book on this question, check out God's Problem: How the Bible Fails to Answer Our Most Important Question--Why We Suffer by Bart D. Ehrman

Terry Eagleton

Sounds like you might enjoy Francis Spufford's book Unapologetic: Why, Despite Everything, Christianity Can Still Make Surprising Emotional Sense.

http://www.amazon.com/Gods-Problem-Answer-Important-Question-Why/dp/0061173975

I enjoyed Francis Spufford's Unapologetic, with one caveat - it's not an attempt to prove Christianity, or even necessarily to convert anyone. As Spufford says in his intro, he's trying to "persuade people that Christianity as such, in any variety, should be seen as something not axiomatically contemptible, something emotionally comprehensible even if not shared." It's also very well-written, in a fairly conversational and often humorous style, and one of the best chapters is a surprisingly moving retelling of the life of Jesus.

> Is the Bible we have today accurate?

>Was Jesus who he said he was?

Bart Ehrman's Misquoting Jesus is a good start here.

Also Forged from the same author.

>Why does evil exist?

Another book by Professor Ehrman is God's Problem: How the Bible Fails to Answer Our Most Important Question--Why We Suffer. But there are countless resources out there exploring the Problem Of Evil.

"Know what you believe" and "know why you believe" by Paul Little...these were used in my 101 class in bible college and I refer them to people all the time
https://www.amazon.com/Know-What-Believe-Paul-Little/dp/0830834230

One I had as a textbook for School of Ministry was "A Ready Defense", a book compiled by a guy named Bill Wilson. It's a like a "best of" for some of Josh McDowell works.

That book - Walk of the Spirit - is one of my favorites. I've read it a few times and it changed my life, in a way. It's also available for free on kindle:

The Walk of the Spirit - The Walk of Power: The Vital Role of Praying in Tongues

Come up with an answer for theodicy that isn't answered in this book: http://www.amazon.com/Gods-Problem-Answer-Important-Question--Why/dp/B001FOR5CG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1334008189&sr=8-1

That's actually the title of a book. The author was on a Point of Inquiry podcast and the idea is pretty decent reasonable. It's basically a Spinozan idea of god. But yes, center ground would obviously piss off both extremes.

EDIT: Changed terms

Hey was just looking for a past thread where I had explained it really well. So some of this is copy pasta with some added explanation for context. Sorry for the text wall I wanted to make sure I wasn't speaking christianese at you. Sometimes it's like a whole other language when you don't have the context.
I tried to link everything for you. Let me know if you have any other questions at all. :)

So first off I guess I should explain that our denomination is not like a traditional denomination but is an association of pastors with similar values. The current church government setup for us is a highly empowered senior pastor who is accountable to the church board, who is elected by members, and the National Vineyard board who is made up of other pastors in the association. There aren't too many strict rulings on individual issues.

The national board did come out with a response paper to the book Ken wrote in which they reaffirmed the traditional marriage arguments. I did not read the paper for my own mental health. It's available online if you're interested.

There is a Vineyard church of Toledo and I've heard they are nice folks but I have no idea what the pastor there thinks about all this. There is a wide range of views on any number of things depending on which Vineyard you attend. I know that their were other churches getting ready to at least put it on the table for discussion but I don't know what will happen with that.

I think that doing things this way is consistent for the character of our faith community here in Ann Arbor. Some of the LGBT community have stated that this doesn't go far enough but this is what the community in our congregation wants. We have a policy of our focus being on Christ and everything else being secondary. Also a bit more of the reasoning behind it.

As a bisexual woman with a mtf spouse it's been really good for us. I think that having this approach has both given us safe space and given people with questions room to ask without feeling weird about it. I'm ok with people not agreeing with me as long as they are respectful. Many of the LGBT congregants have expressed the same opinion. There are tons of open and affirming churches in the area. It would be easier to go there but that's not what we want. People just want to have the same rights as any other member and to be loved and supported.

That doesn't mean that anyone at our church is perfect or sin free.

Our church recently has had a bunch of congregational meetings on the issue because we are most likely being disaffiliated with the Vineyard movement over this stance. I mean that kind of sucks. But we're not backing down on treating LGBT members as equal so that means that this was pretty much inevitable. However, I feel that our church has become more committed to being together as a family. All discussions were very respectful and honored our commitment to God and each other.

We don't think as a whole that any beliefs beyond the Nicene and the Apostles creed are necessary to be a believer. We don't agree on many other issues. These issues are referred to as disputable matters per Romans 14.

Another example of a disputable matter would be remarriage after divorce. Most churches now accept this allow these couples and allow for full membership and communion. The Catholic church being a notable exception.

An issue that is not currently a hot topic in our church is the issue of what hell looks like, who goes there, and if it exists. We had this as a discussion about the time Rob Bell's book on the issue came out. Not everyone in our church agrees on that but it doesn't mean that we break fellowship over it or tell people who belongs.
In the 90's way before I attended creation theory was a big deal. We made room for people with differing beliefs. There are young earth creationists and biology students that sit together in our pews.

Also there is a book that Ken wrote A Letter to my Congregation

And an article here that summarizes it fairly well.

Unapologetic: Why, despite everything, Christianity can still make surprising emotional sense.

I've just started reading it, and very much enjoying his (very different) take. See here for a punchy excerpt that'll give you an idea of the angle.

Well, it's more than $10...but here you go:

http://www.amazon.com/Gospel-According-Lost-Chris-Seay/dp/0849920728

If you haven't already, you should check out Salvation on Sand Mountain. It's an excellent book by a journalist from Alabama detailing his experiences with snake-handling churches.

My favorite? Well Love Wins was pretty pleasant to read.

I was a bit surprised when I read the title. I assumed it would be in Alabama where the snake-handlers are. Salvation on Sand Mountain is incredible and frightening if you haven't read it (https://www.amazon.com/Salvation-Sand-Mountain-Redemption-Appalachia/dp/0306818361)

​

Edit: Really? Downvotes?Do you support snake handlers? Are you insane?

Here is a link to his book if you want his sources. He relies on many scholars and historians.

A Ready Defense