Best christian personal growth books according to redditors
We found 492 Reddit comments discussing the best christian personal growth books. We ranked the 133 resulting products by number of redditors who mentioned them. Here are the top 20.
We found 492 Reddit comments discussing the best christian personal growth books. We ranked the 133 resulting products by number of redditors who mentioned them. Here are the top 20.
After reading through your responses here, I feel the need to clarify for you exactly what an argument is and what it can do. You list examples like evolution and heliocentrism and ask how those might affect one's faith. In reality, these arguments do nothing to disprove God, and are in fact separate issues entirely.
The way you've been speaking so far, it seems like the arguments you're assuming are these:
and
Do you see the leaps here? The statement "God does exist" is not a logically valid inference from these arguments. They, in fact, cannot say anything about whether or not God exists; such is simply not a possibility in the premises. What they really can do is this:
and
Now, does "the church was wrong [on this occasion]" and "some Christians are wrong" equate to "God does not exist?" No. It means that it is a logical possibility, yes, but it does mean that is certain or even probable.
In addition, you'll find that these arguments are not conflicts at all for the vast majority of Christians, especially those who frequent r/Christianity. This is why:
You should also be aware of the philosophical foundation for science. Science is inherently naturalistic, which means that it cannot interact in any way with things outside of nature (related: it is also incapable of 'proving' anything, only math and logic can do that; science can only disprove and assume that which is most probable given the evidence). This includes God, as he exists outside of the universe as we perceive it. Dealing with things outside of nature is the realm of metaphysics, and metaphysics is largely philosophy and logic, not science. Thus, any argument that claims "science has proven God does not exist" is an argument resetting entirely on false beliefs about what exactly science is. This is what others in this thread have been saying.
Given all that, you'd do well to know exactly what arguments do set out to disprove God - and there are very few of them that do so in a valid way. Thomas Aquinas, in his Summa Theogica, was in the habit of stating a point, giving three positions on this point, and then stating his view which was contrary to the three and then arguing against the three first points. In his section on "Whether God Exists?" he only lists two reasons; this is because very few of the arguments that claim to disprove God can actually logically do so. These are the arguments he lists:
and
Note that these aren't the arguments exactly as he lists them; I've updated them slightly to better reflect how they are used today.
The second argument is yet another argument making a logically invalid conclusion from the premises. Whether or not mankind needs God to exist is irrelevant to whether or not he actually exists. Thus this argument falls flat.
The first argument is known as the Problem of Evil, and it has been a huge issue for theists for a very long time. It has not been answered in a way that most theists find existentially satisfying, meaning that no matter how the problem is answered, evil is always a big problem in everyone's life, and it's always hard to understand why God won't just take it away. That said, the Problem of Evil relies entirely on this premise:
We have to ask is that really so? And the answer is, we have no idea if it is or not. It is logically possible that an all-good, all-poweful being could co-exist with evil, even if we don't know how that is possible. Ultimately, this argument is an argument from ignorance, meaning that it relies on the fact that we don't know something to make its claim (The "God of the gaps" argument does the same thing, by the way - it says "Look, we don't know how x or y happen, therefore God"). This is a logical fallacy, and as a result the problem of evil also cannot logically disprove God - though the answer does very little to comfort someone dealing with evil.
I highly recommend you watch Tim Keller on the Problem of Evil at Google. Tim Keller is a big-name pastor in New York in addition to being a popular apologist (meaning one who defends an intellectual stance - in this case, Christianity).
I feel it's worth mentioning what is probably the most common argument against theism, and especially Christianity, most especially on the internet. This is the argument:
You should be able to tell by now that this argument is not a true argument at all. The conclusion has nothing at all to do with the premise. It sounds crazy to some people that Christians believe in life after death, but that does not mean it is false, and it certainly does not mean God does not exist. It sounds crazy to some people that some Christians believe that bread blessed by a priest becomes the body of Christ, but that does not mean it is false, and it certainly does not mean God does not exist (a lot of the popular arguments against evolution use this tactic, and are also invalid). This tactic is the one most commonly used by Richard Dawkins.
Ultimately, that 'argument' fails because it relies entirely on the perception of the individual and has absolutely nothing to do with logic. It merely disguises itself as logic.
Now, if you really want to read more about why people believe God can logically exist, you want to look into books on apologetics. There are a whole lot of those, as it has been a popular topic for hundreds of years now, but two that are quite accessible and quite strong are The Reason for God by Tim Keller, who I mentioned above, and Mere Christianity by C. S. Lewis, of Narnia fame. These two books deal with how God can logically exist, but there are a wealth of books on other apologetic issues, like how we can trust the Bible to be accurate (Reinventing Jesus is a very good book for this issue).
Edit: error corrections, some paranthetical statements.
Welllll as a former atheist I am going to have to tell you that if "wanting to see the world as simpler" is your goal, I certainly don't think Catholicism will help. It turns out that God is complicated, theology is hard, and virtue is extremely challenging. I found atheistic materialism with a healthy dose of liberal politics made for a much simpler and especially easier worldview.
But truth isn't supposed to be what is simple and easy. And almost everything worth doing is going to be hard. Putting your faith in God isn't like having a nice sweet daddy/mommy who will kiss your boos boos any make everything better. Nope. Faith makes demands on you. Everything from not spouting off expletives when some ahole cuts you off in traffic to living chastely to putting other people and Christ first in your life. Anyone who tells you this is easy is lying. Selfishness and self-centeredness is always easier and will always tempt you.
That doesn't mean faith isn't worth having or worth doing. Your conscience convicts you long enough until you die and Christ will. The sooner you get started the better off you'll be.
Start here:
1 Read this to know God exists.
2. Read this to know sin is real and virtue is possible.
3. Read this to learn about truth and the authentic courageous intellectual life.
4. Read this to learn how one of the greatest Saints came into faith.
5. Read this for a little bit of everything.
Hi there! Also a former raised-Catholic-but-not-really-former-atheist/agnostic revert here.
There are numerous - almost endless - amount of resources out there, regarding the Church. (Considering the age of the Catholic Church, it's not surprising.) If you had more specific topics you were looking for, I'm sure people here would be more than willing to point you in the right direction.
For more general sources by platform:
 
BOOKS
 
YOUTUBE
 
PODCASTS
 
MISC
 
This subreddit is generally good at giving solid answers and advice, if you had specific questions/doubts/inquiries. It was actually probably quite an instrumental player in my reversion to the Church. And like you said, head to confession ASAP! Welcome back home, friend.
From an economics perspective:
From a social perspective:
From a moral perspective:
There's many more than just these, and there's a lot of underlying philosophy that modern conservationism is based on. I'd also categorize these books as a basis for "intellectual conservatism" as opposed to say "cultural conservatism". Something to note is that little of the conservative mindset is focused on policy and politics, per se. There is instead a strong emphasis on personal action and collective culture, the value of morals, and a focus on introspection. So while these books will perhaps help you understand a conservative perspective better, they will not likely provide a good basis for engaging in political debate. For that maybe you want a book by Ben Shapiro or something.
A lot of your questions are answered in his book: Ghost Boy
As a Catholic, I can assure you Catholics ARE Christians. Mel Gibson is a Catholic... sort of. He's a Sedevacantist.
Man, call yourself a Christian! I would also recommend looking into the Roman Catholic faith or the Eastern Orthdox faith (we're the OG Christians, lol).
Yes, get a Bible, but DON'T read it cover-to-cover. Once you get to Leviticus, you'll be like, "What the actual f--- is going ON here?" Start with the New Testament, specifically one of the Gospels. I personally love the Gospel of Luke because of how it portrays Mary, but the Gospel of John is quite good, too. It's very symbolic and is perhaps the one you could study the deepest.
if you're finding it hard to understand some of the New Testament of the Bible (the part with Jesus, the letters of Paul, and the Book of Revelation,) I would recommend buying the Ignatius Catholic Study Bible. It's an actual, readable Bible that contains commentary throughout. The version I linked is only for the New Testament. The Old Testament analysis is still being compiled,
but it's almost done.Also, listen to Scott Hahn's podcast where he breaks down various sections of the Bible.
As for reading materials outside the Bible, I can highly recommend Mere Christianity, by C. S. Lewis, Orthodoxy by G. K. Chesterton, and Chesterton's other work The Everlasting Man.
Oh yeah, PRAY! Just have a conversation with God! Talk to him about anything you want! Pray to God, ask the Blessed Mother for intercession, or any of the saints
If you're confused about the various denominations of Christianity, Here's a basic flow chart.
Here's the Nicene Creed, which is a mash-up of what (most) Christians believe
Also, I highly recommend the Podcast Pints with Aquians! It's an analysis of the writings of St. Thomas Aquinas, who's life mission was to combine faith with human reason and prove that it was not unreasonable to believe in God, but perhaps it is unreasonable to not believe in God.
I, along with everyone on this sub, will be praying for you! Good luck on your faith journey!
You might want to actually learn about CS Lewis.
In Mere Christianity, Lewis bluntly states, quote, that “a Christian society would be what we call Leftist.” His references to capitalism (competition, profit, the accumulation of wealth, marketing, inequality, self-interest) are always critical, often hostile. He insisted that “If you are a Christian you do not have to believe that all the other religions are simply wrong”.
He also routinely criticized British Imperialism, the continuing effects of slavery, and critiqued glorified notions of “the family”. His buddy was crypto-commie George Macdonald, and he was surprised that the United States did not have a “socialist” English-style National Health Service, which he treated as common sense. On more than one occasion - and in print - he called for economic equality. When Churchill, in the reactionary 1950s, wanted to award him a “CBE”—Commander of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire, Lewis turned it down, because he did not want to be associated with, quote, “anti-leftist propaganda.” He was also a friend of Edith Nesbit, the friend of Karl Marx’s daughter and repeatedly condemned fascism and the far right (especially in Spain) and detested conservatives like Evelyn Waugh. His attitude toward nationalism is especially revealing; he opposed the, quote, “fanatical Nationalist who tells me to throw away my scruples about universal justice and benevolence and adopt a system in which nothing but the wealth and power of my own country matters.” “Universal justice and benevolence” are basic liberal values he explicitly said on more than one occasion. He even consigned two of England’s hero-sized nationalist monarchs—Henry V and Henry VIII—to Hell. He also was buddies with the great English Marxist, William Morris, and notice how often the theme of social revolution turns up in Lewis’s books for children.
And, though he has a reputation in America as a kind of evangelical Christian, Lewis abhorred mixing religion with politics. “Of all bad men religious bad men are the worst”. His language is blunt. “Theocracy is the worst of all governments” and he openly called his beliefs “liberal” and “humanist” and expressed sympathy for the socialists hauled up before the McCarthy hearings, which he did not approve of. Up until he death, he expressed that humanity needed a new economic democracy, and his much touted "Mere Christianity" (perhaps his most popular book in the west) has surprising things to say about capitalism: “Moses and Aristotle and the Christians agreed in forbidding interest. . . . three great civilisations had agreed in condemning the very thing on which we have based our whole life under capitalism". In a Christian society, he said, “There will be no manufacture of silly luxuries and then of sillier advertisements to persuade us to buy them. A Christian society would be what we now call Leftist”.
But of course, like Orwell (and numerous civil rights leaders), CS Lewis is whitewashed in the west.
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A great way to find out more about it: C.S. Lewis - Mere Christianity
Mere Christianity - C.S. Lewis
The Reason for God: Belief in an Age of Skepticism - Tim Keller
Gunning for God: Why the New Atheists are Missing the Target - John Lennox
The Doctrine of the Knowledge of God - John Frame
Van Til's Apologetic: Readings and Analysis - Greg Bahnsen
The last two are more in-depth philosophy-wise than the first three.
Cop Under Fire: Moving Beyond Hashtags of Race, Crime and Politics for a Better America
by Sheriff David A. Clarke Jr. et al.
Link: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1617958573/
Hi! Can you make it to Columbus, OH for the upcoming Parents' Conference of GCN? Meeting lots of other parents would probably be an amazing experience for you. I think you'd also get a lot out of Torn by Justin Lee.
> We have been looking into conversion therapy, but it is quite out of our budget.
That's a relief, since it's known to be ineffective, destructive, and sometimes fatal. I assume you love your son too much to want to bring about his death. I hope you feel similarly about his relationship with Christ; that you won't decide that driving him away from God is a fair and reasonable sacrifice for the hope of somehow making him straight.
Do you realize that Exodus, the largest and longest-running organization to attempt conversion therapy, ultimately concluded that they were only doing harm, and so voluntarily closed down? Neither your youth pastor, nor anybody else, has anywhere near as much experience with conversion therapy and seeing what it does. If the most experienced experts in any field tell you that you should not do something to your son because it would do him harm, I assume that a loving parent will not then shop around for a less scrupulous amateur willing to experiment on him.
Because I think the greatest threat to the modern Western world is what C. S. Lewis called "The Abolition of Man", and more generally the denial of the created order. White supremacy, for all its manifest sinfulness and absurdity, is doing something totally different that I don't think has half as much destructive potential(not least because it has so much less chance at becoming the dominant view) in our modern world.
Read Just Do Something by Kevin DeYoung. It radically changed how I think about discerning God's will. Western Christians have a very distorted view.
Oh hey, that's me! :)
I just want to say that I think all the books posted so far are worth a read. I second the recommendation of Vines' and Brownson's books for their thoughtful, in-depth biblical analysis from folks who love the Bible and have a very high view of Scripture. (They're also great people.) And Jeff Chu's book is a fascinating look at the different ways people wrestle with their faith and sexuality. (He's also great people.)
Since I lurk here, I guess I should say something about my own book, huh?
Torn is aimed squarely at an evangelical audience, especially for those who aren't yet affirming; it walks them through the human side of the issue, what it's like to grow up gay and evangelical, why people are gay, where the church has missed the mark, etc. It also gets into the biblical questions (again, with a high view of Scripture) though that's not the sole focus of the book like it is with Vines and Brownson. It's designed to be more accessible for folks who haven't gone very deep on this yet, to help them understand why it matters so much and what they can do about it. I like to think it complements the other books well.
Hi me from a decade ago! Trump became President. Yeah, that Trump. Mind warning 2007 of that? Thanks!
Your thought process is uncannily close to who I used to be, that's scary dude.
Welcome to the club of ex-atheists who ended up researching Christianity in earnest. This religion does weird stuff to you man. You'll be discussing the nature of the Trinity and ruthlessly sharing 1 Corinthians 13 and Romans 7 before you know it.
To answer your question on miracles, you're not going to find concrete proof which can't be disproven with the phrase, "other large religions exist." It's a tall order and a tough one to accept for anyone who's been an atheist for a while. There are thousands of books on New Testament miracles but I like Miracles by C.S. Lewis.
C.S. Lewis is a well loved Christian author, known for the Chronicles of Narnia, Mere Christianity, The Screwtape Letters and The Great Divorce amongst many other excellent works. Miracles is one of his dryer books but I've found it to be an effective analysis of this topic. It goes into the nature of what a miracle is and why they're particularly noteworthy.
I linked an online copy of the book because it's in the public domain where I live in Canada. I don't know if it's in the public domain where you live, so feel free to buy a copy of the book if you so wish.
Edit: An interesting thread from the past on this subject. You can also search for more threads on the sub if you don't find what you want here today, this topic does show up from time to time.
Here are a few that might interest you.
https://strangenotions.com/wright-conversion/
C.S. Lewis - Mere Christianity
http://www.amazon.com/Mere-Christianity-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652926/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1450724094&sr=1-1&keywords=mere+christianity+by+c.s.+lewis
Catholicism & Reason: Creed & Apologetics by Edward J. Hayes
Anthony Flew's "There is a God"
http://www.amazon.com/There-Is-God-Notorious-Atheist/dp/0061335304
Of course I doubt. I doubt all the time. We all doubt at times. Just 20 months ago I was (secretly) an agnostic atheist myself.
But the fact that we doubt only says that we haven't personally seen something. And in this case, whether we believe or not has profound implications (see Pascal's Wager for both sides of this coin). Therefore we want to make sure we believe correctly.
And there are all sorts of lines of logic that lead us to belief in a God and in miracles, and there are all sorts of historical evidences (such as the testimony of the Apostles) that leads us to believe the Resurrection of Christ. The Resurrection of Christ leads us to belief in the testimony of Christ. Since Christ testified His Words contained in the Four Holy Gospels, that is how we arrive at Christianity. We arrive at Catholicism through further study of the Bible and of history.
Try praying the Sorrowful Rosary and meditating on the reality of what Jesus did for you. Trust in the Saints and their testimonies, especially the Twelve. Trust in the Scriptures and trust in Mary.
And if you really need to, ask God to show Himself to you. He might choose to. He might choose not to. But remember what Our Lord said to Saint Thomas: "Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe."
C.S. Lewis wrote about one argument for God, namely the argument from desire. I have found this quite convincing.
"Creatures are not born with desires unless satisfaction for these desires exists. A baby feels hunger; well, there is such a thing as food. A dolphin wants to swim; well, there is such a thing as water. Men feel sexual desire; well, there is such a thing as sex. If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world." - C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity, Bk. III, chap. 10, "Hope"
It is tough to maintain faith, especially in this culture. But above all, just be honest with yourself. If after all, you don't believe it, then simply don't believe it. Also I would love to hear your reasons! :)
God bless you.
For me I'm going to go a bit old school. First "The Abolition of Man" by C. S. Lewis, which argues for a sort of 'Universal Truth'. I thought it was endlessly fascinating, and it's really an easy, short read. (The audio book was only an few hours long). There's also Lewis's "Mere Christianity" which is once again easy and short. In it he sort of starts with a shortened version of the argument found in Abolition, and from there discusses why Christianity itself works as the 'Universal Truth'.
If your looking for something thicker, I would suggest G. K. Chesterton's "Heretics", which blasts away the philosophy of his contemporaries (Which is still applicable today), "Orthodoxy" which discusses his own conversion and his own search for truth, and "The Everlasting Man" which discusses the history of mankind and Christianity's role in it. (This was also the book that converted Lewis' intellect).
Chesterton is not necessarily a difficult read because of lengthy words, or because he references something no longer fashionable, but because of his ideas. I like to think I can understand things fairly well, but I had to pause often to go over a phrase, or to really think about a thought he presented. But both authors are very enjoyable.
First, no one can convince you of God's existence except Him. I know, I was not raised Christian, not even close. I came to Christ as an adult, much to the amazement of my Christian friends and much to the horror of my secular friends and family. Ask, seek, knock Matt 7:7, it sounds like an easy solution but it isn't. If following God were simple then Jesus' death would have been unnecessary. If following Jesus were easy in a fallen world, then there would be no apostasy, there would be no need for caution, there would be no hypocrisy; but in reality there is.
Second, God calls us to love him with all that we are. Our hearts, mind and soul. God does not want mindless zombies. [Luke 10:27 & Deut 6:5] If you know a Christian who isn't thoughtful, then you probably know one who is deceived. In fact, throughout history you will find that many of the best educated people were Christians. All but one of the first universities in the fledgling US were Christian schools. Why? Because God warns us to be discerning so that we will not be deceived by lies, well told lies but lies all the same.
Third, read the Bible and study its' history. There is a lot of information available on these topics. Also study prophecy. Prophecy is given to the Church for several reasons, one of which is to testify to God's nature, the nature that allows him to lay out history before it happens.
Give God a chance and HE will show you his character and nature, but you do have to seek Him out. I'm sorry if that's not what you want to hear but it is true.
Resources, by far a drop in the bucket of the preponderance of information:
Is Jesus Real? Non-biblical evidence Short video, that goes over some of the information for a historical Jesus. Much is taken from the next link, The Divine Evidence.
The Divine Evidence Article Index Tons of articles to go through here.
Love Your God with All Your Mind: The Role of Reason in the Life of the Soul
Christian Martyrs Several part series, from Foxe's book Christian Martyrs of the world. This is an important part of Church history, it's good to see where the Church has been.
Mere Christianity Someone else suggested this and it's a good read. Some people have a negative view of Lewis, but I think his story and published writings are pretty inline with the Bible. At least the ones I have read.
Oh, is that like the other book by Lee Strobel in which he makes the case for creationism by interviewing people who take the position he likes while ignoring arguments and facts that he doesn't like? Sorry, but that's nothing like objective. Sort of the opposite, really. Somehow, I have a hard time Strobel makes any sort of attempt at objectivity.
An introduction to Christian doctrine and what Christians believe is completely different than an introduction to the Bible.
For a free, online, scholarly introduction to the Bible I suggest OpenYale's courses on the New Testament and Hebrew Scriptures available here. Both Christine Hayes and Dale B. Martin are excellent. Biblical Literacy by Timothy Beal is an excellent accessible and mostly moderate[1] introduction to the the Bible for someone who's never read it before.
As far as both doctrine and the basis for doctrine go, that'll differ drastically from denomination to denomination. Most Protestant denominations claim that they believe in "sola scriptura" or "scripture alone", but perhaps the biggest blow to this statement may be the fact that you can't read the Bible and instantly divine everything there is to know about Protestants. Understanding the history of Protestantism is necessary. Even within the realm of Protestantism you'll find a diverse spectrum of beliefs. I personally have more in common theologically with some Muslims than I do with fundamentalist Protestant Christians.
Catholic and Orthodox traditions both explicitly state the importance of the church and church tradition, and so simply "understanding the Bible" won't get you very far there.
I'm tempted to offer Simply Christian: Why Christianity Makes Sense by N.T. Wright or the famous Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis, but I cannot overstate the fact that even given their wide acceptance among the vast spectrum of Christian traditions, they are speaking out of a very particular perspective (they're both Anglican). A fair question, asked by Lamin Sanneh, is, "Whose religion is Christianity?" There are completely separate articulations of Christianity that have nothing to do with the Western culture it is so much associated with today. In his book he explores Christianity beyond the west. C.S. Song's book Jesus, the Crucified People: The Cross in the Lotus World covers specifically ways in which Christianity has risen across Asia.
I've got to run, but last I want to suggest Houston Smith's The World's Religions. He does a great job of highlighting the best of each of the world's major religious traditions.
__
[1] When people say "moderate" they don't mean "I believe in it moderately" but rather "In the spectrum from conservative to liberal interpretations of the Bible I fall somewhere in the middle".
In terms of the existence of God, it was largely Anthony Flew's "There is a God" and C.S. Lewis' "Mere Christianity" that got me to a place where I could at least be open the idea of the existence of God.
How to Think About God: A guide for the 20th Century Pagan
Ritual and Religion in the Making of Humanity
Why God Won't Go Away: Brain Science and the Biology of Belief
Biblical Games: Game Theory and the Hebrew Bible
The Probability of God: A Simple Calculation That Proves the Ultimate Truth
The Abolition of Man
Meeting Jesus Again for the First Time: The Historical Jesus and the Heart of Contemporary Faith
Reading the Bible Again For the First Time: Taking the Bible Seriously But Not Literally
New Evidence that Demands a Verdict
More Than a Carpenter
Cold Case Christianity: A Homicide Detective Investigates the Claims of the Gospels On my to read list.
Faith on Trial: An Attorney Analyzes the Evidence for the Death and Resurrection of Jesus
The Case for Christ
The Case for Faith
The Case for a Creator
The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus On my to read list.
The Historical Jesus: Ancient Evidence for the Life of Christ On my to read list.
Besides the apologetics books, you can watch John Lennox on YouTube. He is a very well-spoken and kind (doesn't attack the other debater) debater. Very well thought out responses. The Dawkins vs Lennox debate was awesome! Ditto Gary Habermas as well.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 New International Version (NIV)
9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Here is a video that argues about the meaning of this passage.
Some people point to Sodom and Gomorrah being destroyed by God as a sign He condemns homosexuality. Here is a another video with the mildly annoying bald guy arguing the meaning of those stories.
Leviticus 18:22 - "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable." (NIV)
Leviticus 20:13 - "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." (NIV)
Romans 1:26-27 - "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion." (NIV)
I basically believe that the modern bible as a few "minor" translation errors where passages that are talking about pagan temple prostitution, Roman male pedophilc sex slave relationships, and male permeability not under a monogamous marriage. I'm gay and christian and I don't see why I can't marry a man later in my life (other then that my family would disprove of it immensely since they don't hold my same views).
A decent book on this subject is Torn: Rescuing the Gospel from the Gays-vs.-Christians Debate.
Not all Churches are intolerant. There are many which are welcoming of all, including LGBT. Please look to attend one of these, so that you can experience the joy of being welcomed into Christ's family, and supported by those who love you. To find an affirming church in your area you can use this Church finder or this one.
If you are interested in reading more about the scriptural affirmation of Gay relationships then you can read Justin Lee's essay here, buy his book, or watch Matthew Vines' youtube video, either his short summary or his longer talk.
Read the scriptures, ask for advice from others (see /r/GayChristians and /r/OpenChristian), pray and meditate on Christ's love and His overwhelming desire to give you abundant and everlasting life. Always be careful to avoid the toxic words of hate and fear from others. People will always fear what they don't understand. But Christ is love and perfect love casts out fear.
If you're a reader this a really good book by Drew Brees, quarterback for the New Orleans Saints: https://www.amazon.com/Coming-Back-Stronger-Unleashing-Adversity-ebook/dp/B003UV9052
This is a guy that hurt his throwing shoulder, was fired by his old team, and was in the middle of a situation where he might not play again. He went on to win the Superbowl for the Saints. Since then he's become one of the best QBs in history racking up record after record after record.
I wouldn't say inexplicable, but definitely unique in the sense that nobody else I have ever met would own it: The Gospel according to Star Wars: Faith, Hope, and the Force
Well I've used it weekly for the last three-ish years, both from the perspective of the disciple and the discipler, and it seems to be the best model that I've seen. Most of the material is from or related to Cru, but I'll just try to include some stuff that isn't.
Here's a massive wealth of articles and videos from Cru on how to go about it. You don't have to use all (or any) of it, but there are a lot of articles for people who are new to discipleship on there, though it is definitely geared towards college aged people.
Life Concepts is another great resource from Cru if you're working with a new believer or someone who doesn't have a very strong understanding of their faith.
For books, I recommend going through the Gospel Centered Life, it's a great short book that has wonderful lessons, and a pretty Reformed view of the gospel. I highly recommend that one.
Some other great books (depending on the individual and what they're going through) would be Don't Waste Your Life by John Piper, Just Do Something by Kevin DeYoung (I can't recommend this one enough), and Surfing For God if you wanna talk lust and purity.
I also know a few people who use the Bible Project and their resources to go through books of scripture--for example, Matthew. On there you'll find the videos going over the book, an overview of each section, and some different resources at the bottom of the page.
Ultimately, you have to decide on the content yourself based on the needs of the disciple and what they're going through, and you kind of just have to figure all that out as you go.
Edit: also, I have a ton of articles saved on my Drive related to specific topics for some reason, so if there's ever anything specific you want resources for, feel free to ask and I can see if I have something!
The closest documented real-world phenomenon that I can think of is the book Ghost Boy by Martin Pistorius. Kid essentially enters a coma as a 12 year old child and slowly and gradually regains consciousness from age 16 to 19. Freaky stuff.
I am not entirely sure how much his experiences would relate to this, however. He did completely miss his most physically transformative years, essentially waking up in a new body so to speak. However, he awoke to a familiar world, surrounded by family. You decide whether or not it's pertinent.
If you would like to PM me and ask more questions, I'm always happy to help people who were where I was 4 years ago.
​
Here are a few good Affirming (A) resources to start out with:
Torn: Rescuing the Gospel from the Gays-VS-Christians Debate by Justin Lee (A)
God and the Gay Christian: The Biblical Case in Support of Same-Sex Relationships by Matthew Vines (A)
Modern Kinship by David and Constantino Khalaf (A)
Blue Babies Pink by Brett Trapp / B.T. Harmann (A)
Bible, Gender, Sexuality: Reframing the Church's Debate on Same-Sex Relationships by James Brownson (A)
Sex and the Single Savior: Gender and Sexuality in Biblical Interpretation by Dale Martin (A)
Risking Grace, Loving Our Gay Family and Friends Like Jesus by Dave Jackson (A)
​
I'm compiling a list of other good resources / bad ones (from all perspectives, not just ones I disagree with), so let me know if you're looking for something more specific.
Your family will still be in heaven together. It's love that keeps a family together, not some ritual. Christians most certainly believe that families will be in heaven together. It's the plain and simple message of Christ, without all the technical difficulties that come with the temple and three heaven teaching. Mormons hijacked and took advantage of the "until death do us part" infusing it with their own meaning that was never intended. When Christians would and do utter the phrase it is not a theological teaching on the state of relationships after we die. It is meant to simply promise faithfulness to one another all the days of our lives. Billy Graham mentioned just how much he is looking forward to seeing his wife again, Ruth.
I have included some links below that will help you think through faith and religious issues outside of Mormonism and most importantly within a logical and reasonable framework. Philosophy of religion and philosophical theology are two academic disciplines that utilize the philosophical method for examining the evidence for God and examining the truth chains of religion. Top universities throughout the world have departments that specialize in it. After years of study, I have come down on the side for the existence of God. Our family is now a part of Protestant Christianity, although not tied to one denomination.
Here are some good sources. Reasonable Faith is a great website with lots of information, I would take some time looking through it. It also has a podcast titled "Defenders" under "Media" that will really begin to ground you in a mature faith. "On Guard" is an excellent book to get you started as well.
https://www.reasonablefaith.org
https://www.amazon.com/Guard-Students-Thinkers-Guide-Christian-ebook/dp/B00U894IGA/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1520306101&sr=8-3&keywords=on+guard+william+lane+craig
https://www.amazon.com/Mere-Christianity-Lewis-Signature-Classics-ebook/dp/B002BD2UR0/ref=pd_ybh_a_13?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=ET4M1H0BNR1J0S4RA6ZW
https://www.amazon.com/Philosophy-Religion-Basics-Jargon-Free-Beginners-ebook/dp/B0088DXG2A/ref=pd_ybh_a_19?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=ET4M1H0BNR1J0S4RA6ZW
https://www.amazon.com/Philosophy-Religion-Anthology-Louis-Pojman/dp/1111305447/ref=sr_1_22?ie=UTF8&qid=1520385625&sr=8-22&keywords=Philosophy+of+religion
Best of everything to you. If you have any further questions just let me know. I'm happy to help.
I am another Christian who has read it. I know many others who have read it and have come to be more understanding of the atheistic viewpoint. I would also recommend it. :-)
I would also recommend for basic understanding of the Christian viewpoint:
Hey, welcome to the sub. :)
First off, you have the right attitude (more than many churchgoers, it seems). You want to understand and wrestle and have it be real. Good news: you're on the right track. Faith is hard, at least most of the time. I'm sorry others looked down on you for asking questions and trying to figure things out; they were wrong to do so.
I agree with what others here are saying: Genesis is probably not the easiest place to start, and you'll get even more bogged down in Numbers or in Chronicles. Start in one of the Gospels. I saw Luke suggested, and I'll throw in John. Luke's writing has more details, and John's might be easier to read.
Starting in the Gospels has a purpose: Jesus is really the major focus. There's a lot to gain from reading his words firsthand, and seeing his actions. You might find it a lot different from what the culture says about him. Take your time and soak it in, and I think you'll find him pretty compelling.
After that, Paul's letters are pretty great. Philippians might be a good one to read first, though they're all really short and won't take long.
I might also suggest reading a different version of the Bible. The NRSV is accurate, but can also be archaic and difficult to understand. There are a lot of debates over Bible versions, but don't sweat them for now; I'd suggest the ESV or the CEB (if you want to study deeper later, the NRSV might be better then).
You'll probably want to find a church. This can be hit-and-miss, depending on so many factors. You won't and shouldn't fit into a church that looks down on you for struggling with faith. To start, even though it might feel silly, talk to God about it. Doesn't have to be fancy, just a conversation asking him to help you find a good church. Visit a couple, and see if they try to follow the Jesus you read about in the Bible.
(And if you're in the Dallas area, let me know... you can visit ours! :D I know a couple other great churches in the area too.)
If you're looking for more resources, it depends on what you're interested in.
BUT... don't go crazy. Start with the Gospels and maybe Mere Christianity, and go from there.
If you have questions about what you're reading, feel free to come to this sub or /r/TrueChristian and ask. To be fair, there will be several opposing opinions on more controversial issues, which is a double-edged sword sometimes. But most everyone is welcoming, kind, and happy to discuss anything.
God bless you! :) I love how you have shared your testimony.
I'm a young Christian guy and, unfortunately, struggle with porn and masturbation as well. So I do relate to your troubles there.
As someone who is new to the Christian faith, you might find this book REALLY helpful:
https://www.amazon.com/Mere-Christianity-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652926/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1473987989&sr=8-1&keywords=mere+christianity
It is called "Mere Christianity" by C.S Lewis, who, fun fact, is also the auther of the "Chronicals of Narnia" fiction series.
C.S Lewis was a devout Christian and has wrote many great books on the Christian faith. I would also reccomend his book "the Screwtape Letters" which is a book about demons. And it might help you with temptation, as you shall realise the spiritual reality of what happens whan you go through that tempation.
You also mentioned that your parents are Catholic, so they might appreciate that you learn Theology from the renowned Theologian,
Thomas Aquinas: https://www.amazon.com/Thomas-Aquinas-Selected-Writings-Classics/dp/0140436324/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1473988742&sr=1-1&keywords=thomas+aquinas
https://www.amazon.com/Aquinass-Shorter-Summa-Thomass-Theologica/dp/1928832431/ref=sr_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1473989822&sr=1-7&keywords=thomas+aquinas
https://www.amazon.com/Thomas-Aquinas-50-Pages-Laymans/dp/0988442515/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1473989867&sr=1-3&keywords=thomism
https://www.amazon.com/Aquinas-Beginners-Guide-Edward-Feser/dp/1851686908/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1473989924&sr=1-6&keywords=thomism
Thomos Aquinas is not only one of the greatest philosophers of Christianity, but one of the greatest philosophers PERIOD.
Just by reading, you can really learn a lot about the nature of God, what it means to
pray, how to properly interpret Scripture, understanding your
sexuality, the proper use of meditation etc.
Just reading one book can inform you a LOT.
I say this because, a lot of times, new Christians ask how or where
they can learn more about Christianity. Which is funny because the
answer is right in front of them. :) You learn more about religion
just as you learn more about everything else iln life. Through books.
:)
Anyways. God bless you in your newfound relationship with Him.
May you grow in faith and find righteous abstinence from sin.
Pray for me as I shall pray for you.
Deo Gratias! +++
I am listening to C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity right now and in it he goes over exactly this. Basically he says that saying one should do something because it's "good for society" or because it's "nice" is redundant and gets someone absolutely nowhere when trying to explain why someone ought to do or be something.
Instead this commandment to be good goes back to two things: The first is that God and Christ are good and all knowing, so when they ask you to do something it isn't as though they haven't thought through "why". And secondly, because God and Christ are good and something of them is within us (made in His image, as it goes) then that means there is something good within us that is worth respecting and nurturing because it is divine in nature. I like to call that goodness empathy, because without it we lack the ability to empathize, even with things we've not experienced.
Going off the second point, empathy is the best way to explain goodness for its own sake to anyone without a spiritual background. Empathy allows us to metaphorically experience the lives and situations of others without having to actually do it, and to some degree feel as they do in those situations. Because of empathy and the ability to feel as others do, we can discern the need to not do things to others, because it could cause a stir in us called guilt, or shame, or sometimes we can even feel the pain we inflicted on them, but within ourselves. Barring some kind of emotional perversion (read: sadism or masochism) we typically would not willingly desire to put ourselves in a state of discomfort, so ergo we should not put others in one either, lest we should feel that shame, guilt, or pain all over again. This is the golden rule: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Without empathy the golden rule holds no weight, and empathy is by this premise something of a spiritual nature so it should be heeded.
To address your specific grievance, you must also consider the eternal nature of our lives. You're not inherently incorrect when you say that our lives are inconsequential in the scope of eternity, in fact I'm inclined to agree with you. However in the context of a spiritual progression, and one outlined by He on most high, it would be prudent to heed all what He has told us. We are told He loves us, that He created us all, individually, and that we are all, individually, the most precious to Him. We are also told that this life is simply a step in our journey, and the things we learn here and leave with are certainly not inconsequential because mortality has allowed us the ability to progress far beyond a spiritual form would ever allow.
Knowing this and operating under this premise, it is only logical to treat everyone well because we are all precious in His eyes, and to do everything we can to better ourselves because this is the greatest opportunity to do so. If you were given a kitten by someone you greatly respected, whose life and well being was in your charge despite it having its own free will, would you not cherish it (even if only to prove to whomever gave it to you that you cared as much as they did)? And if you were given the opportunity to go study under the greatest mind in whatever your chosen field is for the span of several hours, would you not soak up every single word they uttered? We need to be kind because we need to extend a certain amount of respect toward the work God has done to create us, as we are His children and He created us this way, such as we are, and He's proud of that. And we need to use that kindness and practice it here as mortals, because mortality is one of the greatest gifts of all.
Sorry for the wall of text, but this is pretty intense philosophy we're exploring here. I would also highly recommend either reading or listening to Mere Christianity, as C.S. Lewis is far more eloquent in explaining these things than I am since he was an educated philosopher, and I'm just a 24 year old trying to figure life out =)
The Divine Conspiracy by Dallas Willard
Reading the Bible Again for the First Time by Marcus Borg
Mere Christianity by CS Lewis
The Meaning of Jesus by NT Wright and Marcus Borg
The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle
New Seeds of Contemplation by Thomas Merton
A Lever and a Place to Stand by Richard Rohr
I have a couple of things to say. Nothing philosophical, really—you've looked at the philosophical disputes already, and ultimately I think what you need to make up your mind is time, contemplation, and journeying. Don't think this is something that you need to determine instantly; if there is a God (as, I think, the best evidence indicates there is), then he must be compassionate and certainly is not displeased by someone who deliberately takes the time to figure things out and pursue truth with an open heart.
You're 17. Do you have any plans to go to college? If so, do the institutions you're looking at offer any philosophy of religion courses? Self-study is great, but sometimes coming at an issue in an explicitly academic context helps people really determine and refine what they think.
I, for one, cannot imagine the God in whom I believe sending such a sincere seeker of the truth to hell. Christians believe that God is love, that love is God's very essence (and indeed, if they are correct, the philosophical arguments over at /r/ThroughAGlassDarkly should establish that one of God's characteristics is being all-loving). If you have the time, I'd recommend picking up the book The Great Divorce by C.S. Lewis, a marvelous exposition into contemporary Christian thought regarding heaven and hell. In short, heaven is the condition of living in love, and hell is the condition of living without love—those who live in love presently on earth are already in an 'anticipated heaven,' as it were, while those who have surrendered to their own selfishness have already descended into a hell of their own making, a prison of their own subjectivity. I can't say for sure, obviously, but from this and other posts you don't strike me as someone whose concern for the satiation of subjective urges outweighs the longing for objective truth.
God is just, loving, and merciful. If you love others and act according to your conscience, I don't think you have reason to fear. Yet by no means cease from exploring. Read widely. If you're at all interested in Christianity I would recommend picking up C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity, any popular-level work by N. T. Wright, and perhaps Ratzinger's God and the World or any papal encyclical issued since 2005. If for now you're just trying to wrap your head around the question of whether God exists, I would suggest that you continue to study independently, and plunge headfirst into life, being open to ideas, to people, to new experiences. The reality of God is apprehended not just in philosophical argumentation but also experientially; if in your journeying it becomes evident to you that there is something more, something greater than the hum-drum of everyday life or the experience of material satisfaction and transient happiness, then perhaps you will understand that God is out there, and that he loves you.
This was the thrust of C.S. Lewis's book Miracle's. This is also the type of argumentation that presuppositional apologetics would use.
I just read "The God Delusion" and i'm a 4th year chemical engineering student so maybe my words can be useful.
I think that first you should keep in mind that words like "rational" and "reasonable" and even in some cases "logical" are relative terms. For instance, have you ever heard of the Prisoner's Dilemma? Just in case I'll explain it really quickly.
You and I commit a crime but sadly we get caught. The fuzz takes us into separate rooms and we have two options. 1.) Rat out the other guy 2.) Say nothing. There are 4 possibilities of combinations; We both rat each other out, we both say nothing, or one rats the other out and the other says nothing. If we both say nothing, we both go to prison for 1 year. If i rat you out and you say nothing, I go free and you go to jail for 5 years (or vice versa). If we both rat each other out we both go to jail 3 years. What is the "rational/logical/reasonable" choice? Some would say you should always rat the other out because in that case you always get the best outcome for you. Others would say that staying silent would be the best option because it most benefits both parties.
As far as Dawkins is concerned, I thought that same chapter you mentioned "Why there is almost certainly no god" was rather lack-luster when it came to convincing me of that (although, granted, I'm biased).
Personally I don't think scientific discovery in any way removes the need for a God. I believe that all phenomena in the universe can be scientifically explained, although some may be harder than others. It would be kind of silly if it couldn't. You hear people talk about God as being omnipotent, omniscient, and omni-all-sorts-of-other-cool-things. Thinking of God as this perfect being, it's not hard to believe that he made the universe in such a way that it can be explained. Although if you don't already think of God that way, it wouldn't be hard to dismiss that.
Anyway, your friend recommended you a book from one side, I'll do the same for you on the other. "The Case for a Creator" by Lee Strobel. It's about a journalist who came to believe that science (in his case a lot of it was evolution) removed the need for a God. And so he interviews many experts in specific fields of science to try and come to a conclusion. It's nice because Strobel went about this is such a way that he was looking for the truth as opposed to looking for a certain answer to fit his beliefs.
Hope that helps!
Edit: This book
http://www.amazon.com/The-Case-Creator-Journalist-Investigates/dp/0310241448
Kudos to you for wanting to diversify your reading list. Reading or listening to only one person is always a dangerous thing, no matter who that might be. I've made a bunch of book recommendations on this sub in the past. Here are a few I think are a good fit for you specifically. In general, I'd also highly recommend all of the works by the authors listed.
Lastly, I'd encourage you to read through some of the Reformed Confessions. Begin with the Heidelberg Catechim and the Belgic Confession. If you want a more modern approach, I'd encourage you to also read the Christian Reformed Church's Contemporary Testimony Our World Belongs To God, too.
Every single person on this earth has their own idea about what religion is and how it originated, and you will encounter many more people with many ideas contrary to what you believe, so don't let your friends discourage you. You seem like you have a genuine desire to believe in God, so believe in him. In this life we are constantly being presented with new ideas and new experiences that shape the way we view things, the question is how will you chose to go about interpreting these new ideas and new experiences? Will you let something that challenges what you believe mold you and change your convictions, or will you fight to understand what you believe to be true, that there is a God and Jesus is his son? I write this as someone who has doubts everyday. Someone who questions constantly, and struggles with what you are struggling with now. However, I have come to learn that there will be a time to choose. What is it that you believe? And when you know it, fight for it, and hold on to it. Relish in the questions, take joy in the challenges, you are not loosing your faith, you are on the search for Truth, follow His voice.
​
Specifically, I think the most important place to start when trying to understand the miracles of Christ is His resurrection. Bishop Barron has a really good video on this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIbmCOm8jFs
I'll list some good books below which have helped me with these questions as well.
https://www.amazon.com/Case-Christ-Journalists-Personal-Investigation/dp/0310339308
https://www.amazon.com/Mere-Christianity-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652926
​
BTW, every time I listen to a lecture/debate from John Lennox, I walk away with more books to read. Here's my list so far:
It sounds like you've got a jumble of thoughts there, which isn't all that unusual. I can't really address all your points in my limited time to make this comment, but I can point you to a few things:
This might be an interesting read...
There are actually MANY resources available to you fortunately! There are many people in the same position that you are in who find they can live a life of being themselves while still believing and following Jesus and the teachings of Christianity. To help your search, I would suggest making a profile and putting yourself out there/ checking out this website:
https://www.gaychristian.net/
As well as reading up on the book titled "Torn: Rescuing the Gospel from the Gays-vs.-Christians Debate" by Justin Lee.
(http://www.amazon.com/Torn-Rescuing-Gospel-Gays-vs-Christians-Debate/dp/1455514306)
His book makes a way for there to be a healthy conversation between different groups who believe it is OK to be gay and christian in a loving, committed same sex relationship (the "side A" field) and those who believe it is OK to be gay and christian, as long as the gay person is celibate (the "side B" people)...
There is a facebook group that you can join who have been connected through the gay christian website network... just put yourself out there and there are many opportunities for connection!
This book by Peter Enns (which I have yet to read) might help.
Also this, which I have read and found it helped me rethink how I think of doubt.
Given your title I'm amazed no-one has recommended this book yet:
Torn: Rescuing Rescuing the Gospel from the Gays-vs.-Christians Debate
The author is the founder of the Gay Christian Network, (www.gaychristian.net) which supports gay Christians who believe it's acceptable to be in monogamous relationships and those who believe they are called to be celibate. There are several interviews and such with him online that you might want to search for. His personal blog is here: http://gcnjustin.tumblr.com/
As others have recommended, if you want to explore and better understand the belief that being gay isn’t a sin, then I also recommend Torn by Justin Lee or God and the Gay Christian by Matthew Vines.
I came from that background. In fact I think many who are conservative and gay have grown up in Christian / Catholic / Mormon households and it is familiar to us. We were rejected for being gay, christian, and conservative a triple whammy.
I'd suggest listening to youtube Gay Christian Network. Watch This Documentary. Tons of videos like this. There are several who do support the LGBT community and have their own churches. They just had a conference that was huge (once a year). I have backed away from it as they have become much to political for me with a liberal tint and Trump hate. But there is definitely Republicans and Democrats there. Checkout the other videos as well the full conference is online. IF you want a explanation of the bible and homosexuality Matthew Vine has a book. But Dr. Brownson is much deeper.
Many are wounded by their faith and the hatred they received the totally reject religion and become almost rebellious liberal SJWs. Some like myself become private about our faith (hell it's hard enough to find a conservative) and personal, often not the ultra religious types (It was another part of yourself that became closeted as some gays hate religion and conservative viewpoints). Some are super religious and from liberal accepting backgrounds (families) so I think it's easier for them in a way. I think there are many more liberal christian gays than conservatives. Because of separation of church and state some are closeted trump supporters. Peter Theil is conservative and Christian. Tony Campolo Pastor, Rob Bell mega church pastor famous for his Nooma videos, Jay baker son of Jim and Tammy (hes quite alternative), Hillsong Christian Singer Vicky Beeching, Singer Jennifer Knapp.
They say as generations go by, the younger generation grew up with Gay is ok and are much more accepting, many leave the church when they grow older.
{Documentary}_
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QImNx1JA3BI - Documentary on Being Gay and Christian (experiences)
{Deep Dive into Bible Verses - Theology}__
Matthew Vine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezQjNJUSraY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8ZgSHK6tdA
Dr. James Brownson (Deep Dive Theology)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1f0KD-B0Z8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKOTNneoOpU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kONByDAXko
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt-a0BiAEVs
{Videos}___
https://www.youtube.com/user/GayChristianNetwork - Videos why its ok to be gay and christian, Speakers Keynotes from Gay Christian Network Conference 1,500 Attendees
{Books}_
http://www.amazon.com/Torn-Rescuing-Gospel-Gays-vs-Christians-Debate/dp/1455514306 - Justin Lee (biography about being gay and christian)
http://www.amazon.com/God-Gay-Christian-Biblical-Relationships-ebook/dp/B00F1W0RD2 - Matthew Vines
http://www.amazon.com/Bible-Gender-Sexuality-Reframing-Relationships/dp/0802868630 - Dr. James Brownson (deep dive theology)
{Forum / Gay Christian Message Board}
http://www.gaychristian.net
{Find a Gay Affirming Church}____
http://www.gaychurch.org
Not everyone believes it to be such. There's good evidence with more recent looks at the original text that the word abomination was inappropriately used there.
There are multiple books on the subject, but may I suggest Torn: Rescuing the Gospel from the Gays-vs.-Christians Debate.
And then of course Jesus never spoke of homosexuality, for whatever reason.
As Christians we should always be searching for truth. Because all truth is God's truth. And we should be open to having our beliefs changed as we get new information. :)
Also: Justin Lee, the founder of gaychristian.net wrote an amazing book called Torn: Rescuing the Gospel from the Gays-vs.-Christians Debate. I highly recommend it. In it he tells his story about discovering as a teenager that he had same sex attractions, and he asked a lot of the questions that you ask. /u/therealsilvanus, please check out the book. And his website provides a safe, nonjudgmental place to discuss these types of questions with other Christians who have SSA. Good luck.
I'm not a Christian, but I recently read "Mere Christianity" by C. S. Lewis. I thought it was a nice argument. It didn't make me want to be Christian, but it helped me see things from their side. He writes very clearly, and has obviously put a bit of thought into it.
http://www.amazon.com/Mere-Christianity-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652888/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1249962373&sr=8-1
I'm guessing most other redditors will recommend things from the atheist side - but you've got to consider her side too.
Please read: Mere Christianity by C. S. Lewis
The "problem" you seem to have is something that every Christian on earth struggles with - the disconnection between knowing something in your head and knowing it in your heart.
This is something I struggle with - there's a stark difference between being intellectually convinced of the existence of God and actually feeling like He exists.
There's a difference between knowing "Yeah, yeah, God loves me." And actually feeling the incalculable, unrestrained love of God.
There's a difference between knowing theologically that you're forgiven and actually feeling forgiven.
It's a difficult hurdle. Fortunately, God is there to help you.
God sends the Holy Spirit to us so that we can experience the presence of God, so that our knowledge of Him can drop down from our head to our heart.
For a long time, I sought an experience. I'm an extreme skeptic, so I'm always incredibly doubtful of any of the miraculous stories I hear from others. At the same time, it's because of this doubt that I so desperately wanted to experience God for myself.
I decided that, if I were to take God seriously, I would need to do whatever I could on my end to "press into" God and leave the rest up to Him. This meant that I would go to the front of the church during worship, or ask people lay hands on me and pray for me. As a skeptic and an introvert, these were huge steps for me. And many times, I wouldn't have a tangible experience with God, and I would get disheartened.
However, there have been a number of times now when I really did have experiences with God.
God lives in you. You have the Holy Spirit inside you; Christ Himself lives in you. However, for whatever reason, God sometimes gives us strong, palpable experiences and awareness of His presence, whereas most of the time we're not aware.
As someone who was originally skeptical of the "charismas," or of personal encounters with God and His Holy Spirit, I now urge you to pursue relationship with God.
That means spending time in prayer. I grew up always praying in my head with my eyes open, because I knew that God could still hear my prayers. However, I've discovered more and more that the act of going in my room, closing the door, kneeling, and praying out loud is richly rewarding. That's how people prayed throughout the Bible. I think that it helps me to connect that I'm praying the God of the universe, rather than just thinking to myself and projecting my desires.
For me, personally, walks alone and in nature have brought me closer to God. I'm someone who's always been deeply affected by nature - even in my doubt, I see the hand of the Creator in His Creation. And some of my encounters with God have been when I've been on a walk alone, not in a church.
Nonetheless, Christian community is extremely important. The Bible affirms repeatedly the importance of the church. If you're not already, try to attend church regularly and get involved with a youth group. I'm incredibly introverted, and in high school I would have thought I'd never be involved in a social group like that. However, our desire to know God should be higher than our desire for personal comfort. We need Christian friends and community surrounding us - people who will love and encourage us, people we can confide our sins and struggles to, people who will pray for us.
Worship is also incredibly important. I didn't used to sing in church. In fact, I went to a Christian school, and I would often remain seated during chapel worship. I was a Christian, but I thought that worship just "wasn't the way I connected with God." I thought that other people who are into praise music can connect with Him that way, whereas I connect with Him in other ways. While it's true that some people connect to God through certain channels more than others, we are all called to worship. I was making worship about myself - What can I get out of it? - instead of it being about God. Ironically, the more you make worship about God and not about yourself, the more you're bound to actually get out of it. This is one of the radical truths of Christianity - the more you give up of yourself, the more you truly are yourself. The more you live for others and for God, the more you're truly alive. It is more blessed to give than to receive.
Lastly, I must mention that good sermons and good books are really helpful, especially if your mind works similarly to mine. I mentioned in another comment Mere Christianity and The Reason for God - I consider them both must-reads for any Christian, but especially the one struggling with doubt. There are other good books, some specific to a particular doubt. (For instance, if your doubt has to do with the relationship between Christianity and science, then The Language of God is a must read.)
As far as sermons go, I really recommend Timothy Keller. If you have a smartphone or mp3 player, you can easily get podcasts for free.
I'll be praying for you. Feel free to PM me with any additional questions, or any particular doubts.
I'm happy for you and will be praying for ya. I highly recommend checking out the book Mere Christianity by C.S Lewis. It gives a well thought out overview of the Christian faith.
You may find Lee Strobel's book, The Case For Christ somewhat interesting. The book came out of his investigation (as a former atheist) into hard evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ and the claim to his divinity. He chronicles his in-depth interviews with some expert historians and Bible scholars.
Apart from the Gospels, a great piece of historical evidence for the existence of Jesus is the account of 1st Century Roman historian Flavius Josephus, who made mention of Jesus in his account of Jewish history leading up to that point. This is one of many pieces of evidence examined in Strobel's book. He also wrote another book called "The Case for Faith," which may also have some information you're looking for.
The book Torn: Rescuing the Gospel from the Gays-vs.-Christians Debate helped me (mostly) come to terms with my faith and sexuality. It's part biography, part theologian argument regarding accepting homosexuality and Christianity. It has a view on homosexuality being okay, assuming the same rules of heterosexual marriage (ex. abstinence until marriage). It's $8.82 used from Amazon with Prime shipping.
No problem, hope it helps in your journey! Funnily enough, the tagline for The Meeting House is "A church for people who aren't into church." And Bruxy Cavey has written a book called The End of Religion, which in part points out that one of the biggest critics & opponents of organized religion was... Jesus.
Read Kevin DeYoung's book Just Do Something. It's a fantastic, short book on God's will. It deals exactly with the things you're struggling with in a way that is biblical and freeing.
I’m not convinced homosexuality is a choice. I know this isn’t really an answer to your question, but this book does a really good job of exploring Christianity coexisting with homosexuality.
Torn: Rescuing the Gospel from the Gays-vs.-Christians Debate https://www.amazon.com/dp/1455514306/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_hHDJAbJM7A1FQ
I found a copy of David Clarke's book at work on the "free" table. Any ideas what I should do with it?
Hey bro, I'm so sorry to hear that this happened. Don't know where you are now (school and away, living at home while working, etc?) Regardless, it's probably really tough. But know that there's a ton of support out there! In terms of popular literature you could give your parents, there's Torn by Justin Lee and God and the Gay Christian by Matthew Vines. I wish you the absolute best of luck on traversing this next step in your coming out journey. It won't be easy, but you've made it this far. Here if you need an ear. Sending you positive vibes and a giant brohug :)
I am seriously surprised by this post. You are asking questions about something which is not Christianity, but a caricature of Christianity which doesn't resemble the real thing in the least. If you are serious about "trying to understand a little more about christianity", I recommend you not ask questions here on Reddit, but read a couple of decent books on the subject. May I recommend Mere Christianity and What Christians Believe for starters.
You asked why, not for a deductive argument proving the truth of our answers.
If you have intellectual worries about God, feel free to browse the various categories of responses to questions concerning His existence.
If you have doubts about Jesus, only you can answer those for yourself. We believe that He's divine and approaches us all relationally. Read a Gospel or two (John and Mark are my favorites). Get to know the story and seriously ask yourself if this Christ person, as character, speaks to you in any way.
NT Wright is a pretty well regarded orthodox Christian scholar by both Christians and Non-Christians, so you may want to read some of his work if you have questions to address about the truth of this character. Who Was Jesus? and Simply Jesus may help you.
If you find any of that compelling and wish to dig into some Christian theology of Jesus, a couple excellent books which portray my personal take fairly well are King Jesus Gospel and Start Here.
And, of course, if you wish merely to approach the idea of Christianity in general, C.S. Lewis famously asserted many fundamentals in his classic Mere Christianity.
If you want me to assert the truth Christianity by disproving all other religions, I will not. I believe that religion is, fundamentally, a search for the divine or God. If divine truth exists, I would expect it to be echoed throughout the mythic language of all attempts to know Him (religions). Conversely, I assert the goodness and truth of Jesus Christ, who I see as central, and anything else that matters falls naturally into place.
Have you read any books about people discussing why they believe? I found that helpful when I was in a similar situation.
Orthodoxy by Chesterton is really great.
Mere Christianity by CS Lewis is one usually recommended as a go-to.
Out of curiosity, how old are you?
Well, I wrote a comment yesterday trying to give a very broad overview of Christianity's family tree. I linked to a few historic creeds for the major branches of Christianity, though perhaps some of them won't be all that illuminating without prior familarity with the controversies they take a side in:
I also recommended The Catholic Catechism and The Orthodox Way as books on their titular denominations. If I had to add one book to represent the Protestant tradition as well, I guess it would be Mere Christianity, which is deliberately somewhat skeletal in its content; Lewis asked clergymen of several denominations to review the manuscript to ensure that while there might be more they wanted him to say on some subject, there would be nothing to which they'd object.
Are some of your family members Christian? You could talk to them (certainly if it's your immediate family like mom and dad or siblings). It'd be harder if it's like a cousin or uncle or grandmother, but you probably want someone to talk to who you trust. Do you have friends who are Christian? Maybe just ask them- if this is a big decision in your life, they should hopefully have your back. You might find out that some of your friends are Christian and you didn't even know because they were too intimidated to tell you that and now you made the first move so it's find to talk about it.
If you really want to read something, you could try reading one of the gospels. Maybe Mark? I also think you'd benefit by reading something a little less formal, a little more geared right at you (the gospels have a lot of context and history and previous knowledge that they expect readers to be working with, so either accept that there's stuff that's going over your head and read them anyway or get a study Bible to help). A lot of people recommend Mere Christianity or The Reason for God or others by Tim Keller. I think that's the sort of thing you're looking for.
There is neither Good nor evil. There simply, “is”.
We use words to describe something’s “is-ness”. However what it “is” depends almost entirely on the context in which it appears and/or how it is perceived by the observer. The difference between narcissism (bad) and confidence (Good) is how the phenomenon manifest.
Many of these ideas are better articulated by experts such as
Edmund Husserl and his theory of phenomenology
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/phenomenology/
Also discussed by Mark Twain in “Mere Christianity”
https://www.amazon.com/Mere-Christianity-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652926
Robert Anton in “Prometheus Rising”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prometheus_Rising
Sadly, some intelligent people fall for religions or cults. Mr. Lewis was one of them.
I enjoyed his fiction as a child, but I can’t say the same about Mere Christianity. It sounded like someone doing his best to rationalize nonsense.
Have you thought about reading any christian theology books? I find reading opposing perspectives and ideas helps to strengthen my own. If I can make a few recommendations...
The Reason for God - Timothy Keller
Jesus Among Other Gods - Ravi Zacharias
The End of Reason - Zacharias
Christian Apologetics - Norman Geisler
Mere Christianity - C.S. Lewis
I would highly recommend everyone read Wayne Grudem's "Christian Beliefs". It's an abbreviated version of "Systematic Theology". Very short but concise overview of basic christian beliefs.
I can only recommend christian material as I haven't read a lot of other religious text. Christianity is the most relevant religion where I live, so understanding has been helpful in conversing with the religious folks around me.
Case For a Creator.
http://www.amazon.com/Case-Creator-Journalist-Investigates-Scientific/dp/0310241448
Some guy was handing them out on campus. Funny read though.
The Case for Christ - Once past the first chapter or so, this book falls into stride, and has interviews with lots of really intelligent people. As a former athiest, seeing/interacting with people more intelligent than myself that are Christians was the largest contributing factor to me opening up to the idea of God. Either way, bravo for at least wanting to see what all the fuss is about!
First to your question about what I understand to be the evolution theory. From what I understand everything started from a single life form and grew from there. The growing was done based on an algorithm of small random changes where the 'good' changes meant more survivability which caused those ' 'good' mutations' to produce more offspring. Which then carried further into the future to what we see now.
Also to start it wouldn't be to 'change' my mind for my mind isn't made up yet. I am willing to accept the evolution theory as a well thought out solid theory for the type of life we see now. But as far as saying it is 100% true I have not seen any proof on that. The information I do find says it cannot be proved. Yet, I keep hearing on reddit about how it has been 'proven'. From what I can tell it seems like it is held as the most likely scenario.
Now about the God questions that is on a completely different topic but I would be happy to answer. Though as I have said I do not think that creation from God and the Evolution theory as being mutually exclusive as many think it is.
First I would say if you are really curious about christianity to read
Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis. It is an incredible logical look at christianity and how he worked his way through believing in God.
Sorry it has taken me a little while to respond. It seems that in many of my discussions with people over evidences for Christianity, we disagree strongly on what counts as evidence. I am curious, do you think that evidence is subjective? Can something be evidence for me and not for you?
Thanks for responding to my points. Let me give some responses to your pushback
As to your statement,
> accuracy is no measure of truth
I am not really sure what you mean by this statement. If you mean that the gospels accuracy is representing the life and words of Jesus does not mean that what Jesus says and later interpretations of his acts and words were true, then I agree. However, if the gospels are accurate in representing Jesus life and death, then the empty tomb and reported resurrection must be accounted for.
> Why does that rise to the standard of evidence? That would mean there is no other possible > explanation of events, other than his actual resurrection, right?
I have yet to hear another explanation of the empty tomb, the reported sightings by the disciples and followers of Jesus and the uniform pronouncement of the early church as to the bodily resurrection of Jesus which is a alternate viable alternative. I would recommend The Resurrection of the Son of God by N.T. Wright if you are interested in further reading in this area.
Beyond that point, the existence of a category which we call evil demands an external standard by which good and evil can be measured. A moral law demands a moral law giver. See Mere Christianity by CS Lewis.
I hope this provides some clarifications. Also, I am listed many books as references. I would be happy to read (or at least skim) anything which you would recommend in this area.
> What book should I download and listen to that will convince me (a strong atheist) there is a god?
"The Call of Cthulhu" - a short story by American writer H. P. Lovecraft
Praise HIM so that upon waking HE may find you worthy and consume you first.
Just Kidding. We already know (gnostic theist) that Cthulhu exists as documented in the Lovecraft historical documentary story (disguised as fiction to hide the ONE TRUE GOD from heathens)!
As an agnostic atheist towards all supernatural Deities, and a gnostic atheist towards monotheistic Yahwehism, I don't know of any books that would convince you. However, if you would like to read/listen to one of the better known Christian Apologists - consider:
by William Lane Craig
Or perhaps something of a more emotional appeal ...
Both books have garnered many positive reviews by Christians.
Neither is likely to convince a strong atheist (e.g., one that holds a knowledge position that no Gods, or specific God(s), do not exist), but I know of no book/set of books/narratives/evidence/arguments that presents credible evidence or argument to support belief or acceptance in any God - with the belief in Yahweh even more unsupportable.
Mere Christianity is a great read. As far as a biography where he steps through his journey, I'm not sure he ever wrote anything quite like that.
Edit: Perhaps this might help
Part 3: Book recommendations:
If you want to dig deep into this topic, here are some book recommendations. Perhaps you would want to read N.T. Wright's Christian Origins and the Question of God series (this is very heavy, scholarly reading). N.T. Wright is the foremost scholar on the New Testament and this is possibly the most thorough literature on the historical Jesus, early Christianity and the Apostle Paul:
https://www.logos.com/product/37361/christian-origins-and-the-question-of-god-series
Anything by N.T. Wright is well worth reading (Simply Christian and Surprised by Hope would be good introductions). Likewise, anything by Ravi Zacharias.
The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus by Gary R. Habermas and Michael R. Licona: https://www.amazon.ca/Case-Resurrection-Jesus-Gary-Habermas/dp/0825427886
Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus: A Devout Muslim Encounters Christianity by Nabeel Qureshi: https://www.amazon.com/Books-Nabeel-Qureshi/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=n%3A283155%2Cp_27%3ANabeel%20Qureshi
No God But One: Allah or Jesus?: A Former Muslim Investigates the Evidence for Islam and Christianity by Nabeel Qureshi: https://www.amazon.com/God-but-One-Investigates-Christianity/dp/0310522552/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1517050609&sr=1-2&refinements=p_27%3ANabeel+Qureshi
On Guard by William Lane Craig: https://www.amazon.ca/Guard-William-Lane-Craig/dp/1434764885/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1526542104&sr=8-1&keywords=on+guard+william+lane+craig
The Case for Christ: A Journalist's Personal Investigation of the Evidence for Jesus by Lee Strobel: https://www.amazon.ca/Case-Christ-Journalists-Personal-Investigation/dp/0310339308
Bonus reading: Heaven by Randy Alcorn: https://www.amazon.ca/Heaven-Randy-Alcorn/dp/0842379428/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1526542237&sr=1-1&keywords=randy+alcorn+heaven
Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis: https://www.amazon.ca/Mere-Christianity-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652926
Read anything by G.K. Chesterton, especially, The Everlasting Man
Answers to Common Objections and Questions:
Jesus’ Resurrection and Christian Origins: http://ntwrightpage.com/2016/07/12/jesus-resurrection-and-christian-origins/
The Evidence for Jesus: https://www.reasonablefaith.org/writings/popular-writings/jesus-of-nazareth/the-evidence-for-jesus/
The Resurrection of Jesus: https://www.reasonablefaith.org/writings/popular-writings/jesus-of-nazareth/the-resurrection-of-jesus/
The Resurrection of Jesus Christ as Christianity's Centerpiece: http://www.cslewisinstitute.org/The_Resurrection_of_Jesus_Christ_as_Christianitys_Centerpiece_FullArticle?fbclid=IwAR0oE22vtBvR2u--R78tSyW-51OpIbWBfWDNH2Ep8miBc9W6uUJMwMsz0yk
Origin, Meaning, Morality and Destiny: http://rzim.org/just-thinking/think-again-deep-questions/
Accompanying video to the link above: Why is Christianity True?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5qJPZySo7A
How Do You Know Christianity Is the One True Way of Living? | Abdu Murray: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14ze_SVg-0E&app=desktop
What makes Christianity unique among the world’s religions? Verifiability is a Christian Distinctive: https://coldcasechristianity.com/writings/verifiability-is-a-christian-distinctive/
Is Jesus God? (Feat. Craig, Strobel, Habermas, Licona, Qureshi...): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dLoKCyDDAg&app=desktop
How Can Understanding Eyewitness Testimony Help Us Evaluate the Gospels?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tCDDsPXQSQ&app=desktop
Historical Evidence for the Resurrection - Can a Scientist Believe in the Resurrection? - Nabeel Qureshi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hD7w1Uja2o
Questioning Jesus: Critically Considering Christian Claims with Dr. Nabeel Qureshi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UpuEDp4ObA
Did Jesus Rise From the Dead? | Yale 2014 | William Lane Craig: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NAOc6ctw1s&app=desktop
Historical Resurrection of Christ?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0Dc01HVlaM
Are The New Testament Documents Historically Credible?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgdsIaqFAp4
Are the Gospels Accurate?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxrDy_G8h88
(Answer to the common objection: ‘the gospels are anonymous’)
Gospel Authorship—Who Cares?: https://www.reasonablefaith.org/question-answer/P40/gospel-authorshipwho-cares
What is the Evidence That Jesus Appeared Alive After His Death?: https://youtu.be/96WIa3pZISE
On Extra-Biblical Sources for Jesus' Post-Mortem Appearances: https://youtu.be/-Dbx7PPIIsQ
Did Jesus Rise From The Dead Or Was It A Hoax By His Followers?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aELRKdxV7Wk
Follow up to the previous video: Did Jesus rise from the dead, or was it hallucinations by his followers?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29224I3x_M0&feature=youtu.be
Did the Disciples Invent the Resurrection?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOHUWsNDPZc
Facts to show the Resurrection is not fiction, by William Lane Craig: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AduPVkqbis
Did Paul actually see the risen Jesus, or did he simply have some sort of vision?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yNdynwqtWI&t
What Do You Mean By ‘Literal?’: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxQpFosrTUk
Evidence For Jesus' Resurrection: https://youtu.be/4iyxR8uE9GQ?t=1s
Death, Resurrection and Afterlife: https://youtu.be/HXAc_x_egk4?t=1s
Did Jesus Really Rise From The Dead?: https://youtu.be/KnkNKIJ_dnw?t=1s
4 Historical Facts That Prove Jesus Really Did Rise From The Dead: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmKg62GDqF4
What About Pre-Christ Resurrection Myths?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrCYVk6xrXg
Jesus and Pagan Mythology: Is Jesus A Copied Myth or Real Person?: https://www.reasonablefaith.org/writings/question-answer/jesus-and-pagan-mythology/
Zeitgeist - Is Jesus A Myth: https://alwaysbeready.com/zeitgeist-the-movie
Did Greco-Roman myths influence the Gospel accounts of the resurrection of Jesus?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pt9rlG7ABo&app=desktop
Does the Resurrection Require Extraordinary Evidence?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLN30A0vmlo
Moral Argument For God’s Existence: How Can A Good God Allow Evil? Does Life Have Meaning?: https://youtu.be/it7mhQ8fEq0
Are there Inconsistencies Between the Four Gospels?: https://youtu.be/sgdsIaqFAp4
Why Are There Differences in the Resurrection Accounts?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtz2lVGmXFI
Don't the Gospels Contradict One Another?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gt9kCwttVY
Why Differences Between the Gospels Demonstrate Their Reliability: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zimP8m3_hCk
Why the Gospels Can Differ, Yet Still Be Reliable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An5wU2hxIfM
Four Reasons the New Testament Gospels Are Reliable: http://coldcasechristianity.com/2015/four-reasons-the-new-testament-gospels-are-reliable/
Find Contradictions in the Bible All You Want: https://www.thepoachedegg.net/2019/05/apologetics-find-contradictions-in-the-bible-all-you-want.html
The Case for the Historicity and Deity of Jesus: https://coldcasechristianity.com/writings/the-case-for-the-historicity-and-deity-of-jesus/
Bart Ehrman is one of the world's most renowned ancient historians/New Testament scholars, and he is an atheist. Listen to what he has to say on the matter of Jesus' existence: The Historical Jesus DID Exist - Bart Ehrman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43mDuIN5-ww
Bart D Ehrman About the Historical Jesus: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6U6TJ4cwSo
Extra-Biblical evidence: In addition to the gospel accounts and the letters from the Apostle Paul, we have sources outside the New Testament with references to Jesus in the writings of Josephus, Tacitus, Thallus, the Jewish Talmud, etc:
http://coldcasechristianity.com/2017/is-there-any-evidence-for-jesus-outside-the-bible/
Is There Extrabiblical Evidence About Jesus' Life?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzP0Kz9eT_U&app=desktop
How do we know Jesus was really who he said he was?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ksvhHEoMLM&app=desktop
YouTube Channels to browse:
William Lane Craig - ReasonableFaithOrg: https://www.youtube.com/user/ReasonableFaithOrg?app=desktop
drcraigvideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/drcraigvideos?app=desktop
Ravi Zacharias - Ravi Zacharias International Ministries: https://www.youtube.com/user/rzimmedia?app=desktop
J. Warner Wallace - Cold-Case Christianity with J. Warner Wallace: https://www.youtube.com/user/pleaseconvinceme/featured?disable_polymer=1
The Bible Project: https://www.youtube.com/user/jointhebibleproject
Unbelievable?: https://www.youtube.com/user/PremierUnbelievable
David Wood - Acts17Apologetics: https://www.youtube.com/user/Acts17Apologetics
Nabeel Qureshi - NQMinistries: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCepxnLs6GWAxAyI8m2U9s7A/featured?disable_polymer=1
Randy Alcorn - Eternal Perspective Ministries with Randy Alcorn: https://www.youtube.com/user/eternalperspectives?app=desktop
Frank Turek - Cross Examined: https://www.youtube.com/user/TurekVideo
Brian Holdsworth: https://www.youtube.com/user/holdsworthdesign
Ken Ham, Answers in Genesis:
>In the beginning, the everlasting God spoke both time and the universe into existence.
Gary Baxter, A Defense of the Bible:
>God did not have a beginning as He is outside of time.
Norman Geisler, Billy Graham Evangelistic Association:
>As Creator, God is as different from the universe as an architect is from his architecture.
CS Lewis, Mere Christianity:
>[Christians] think God invented and made the universe—like a man making a picture or composing a tune. A painter is not a picture, and he does not die if his picture is destroyed.
There are many more examples, but these should illustrate the point. This sentiment appears to be relatively common among evangelical and fundamentalist Christians.
​
>People love just making stuff up.
That's why arguments need to be honed to combat their ideas, and why I commented as I did: OP's argument won't be effective on such people.
​
Edit: clarification
Not sure if you're really interested in getting into a disucssion about this, but CS Lewis wrote a very excellent book called Mere Christianity which I would highly encourage everyone to read, whether Christian or atheist.
In it, he basically says what you said -- that the Golden Rule dictates how we interact with others.
But he also made the broader point that you need more than that to be a good person. He talks of having a moral compass even when nobody else is around.
For instance, if you were on a desert island, where there is no other living being, there still exists both moral and immoral behavior. No action of yours could possibly hurt or be influenced by another person.
However, even though the Golden Rule does not apply in this situation, it is still possible to be a good or a bad person. You may lead an unhealthy lifestyle. Eat too much. Drink too much. Don't exercise. Be filled with self loathing or self importance. None of these would affect another person. They are all personal vices. What principles, then, govern your behavior in these circumstances?
We all have doubts. It's part of being human and being a Christian. As you mentioned you are still looking for truth and are open to the idea of theism. I would just recommend a few books for reading that are great intellectual reading about the subject. That being: The Reason for God: Belief in an Age of Skepticism and The Case for Christ: A Journalist's Personal Investigation of the Evidence for Jesus
as well as anything by CS Lewis notably [Mere Christianity] (http://www.amazon.com/Mere-Christianity-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652926/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1425281260&sr=1-1&keywords=mere+christianity+cs+lewis) and Screwtape Letters.
All the best in finding truth friend, and although you may doubt Him (even as Apostles, greatest evangelists, martyrs, missionaries also did) I would not advise ruling out Christ just yet.
Thanks for sharing your perspective. It seems to me—and I may be way off the mark—that you still believe in God and the Christian values of the the Mormon faith, but not in the institution of the Mormon church.
Question: have you investigated other Christian churches outside of the Mormon tradition? I know that for many on this sub, losing their belief in Mormonism has been accompanied by a loss of belief in Christianity or religion in general, but many others find a home in a new faith community. I am currently one of those people.
One thing that I learned as a product of my questioning my faith was that I didn't really understand non-Mormon Christianity very well at all. That is, what I thought I understood about Christianity was really more of a caricature of Christianity I had been given through my Mormon upbringing, and not really an accurate representation. As I started to research religion more broadly, I discovered that Christianity is actually far more diverse than I had supposed. Through my upbringing and bias-colored experiences, I had come to think of all of Christianity as a sort of Bible-belt, evangelical, born-again, fundamentalism, that in many ways is actually not that dissimilar to Mormonism in practice, despite significant differences in theology. However, I discovered that—primarily in the "mainline" Christian denominations—there is also a rich tradition of Christianity that remarkably different from what I had experienced or presupposed.
Anyway, the short version: it seems like you might still identify as non-evangelical Christian, but just not Mormon. That might be me projecting, but if not, you might consider looking into some of the mainline Christian faiths and seeing if you like it. And maybe you wont, but at least you'll know. If you are interested, I highly recommend reading Marcus Borg's The Heart of Christianity, which is a light and conversational read on 'progressive Christianity', or Karen Armstrong's The Case for God, which is a much more detailed treatise on religion throughout history but ultimately covers some of the same ideas.
Upvote for the pun, intended or otherwise! Just because we're talking about religion doesn't mean we should be without a sense of humor, IMHO.
You're right though, it's hard to describe something you don't believe in. To be perfectly honest, I ask because I find a remarkable amount of similarity in the God I see so many people rail against here in r/atheism. So much so that I wonder whether these people truly don't believe in any god, or whether they just don't accept the God that so many wrongheaded Christians push upon them. A shockingly large number of atheists have little trouble answering my question, because they do have a clear idea of what "God" is. It's just that they hate this idea.
I have gone through atheist periods, mostly because I can't believe all of the things I hear many Christians say about God; all of the counter factual bullshit I hear from the religious right, etc.. One day, I came across a different explanation of what God is that really connected with me and how I already felt. Knowing that I wasn't the only one that thought this way about the "moreness" I sensed in the universe gave me the confidence to take back the word. Should anyone be interested in that explanation, I suggest reading [The Heart of Christianity] (http://www.amazon.com/Heart-Christianity-Rediscovering-Life-Faith/dp/0060730684/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1319227851&sr=8-1) by Marcus Borg. I'm not trying to convert people, but I know that it resolved a lot of the issues I have with the religion bequeathed to me by my parents and society. If anyone else has similar issues and would like one guy's brilliant take on resolving them, there it is.
You may be interested in The Heart of Christianity by Marcus Borg. The questions that you're wrestling with are very similar to the ones he wrestles with in that book, and I personally found it quite affirming to read through.
Another thing...
Finish Aquinas when you can. (Hopefully) marvel at the ingenuity of the man's reasoning and the tightness (maybe?) of his arguments. Even you don't accept the arguments, at least marvel at their high-level, fundamental reasoning that are specifically designed to avoid god-of-the-gaps.
Then go look at the table of contents of this piece of shit:
Evolution, evolution, evolution. Darwin. DNA is machinery! Darwin. Derp derp! Biochemistry! Darwin was wrong! Evolution. Dembski Dembski. DNA is complex machinery!!! Behe. Meyer. Dembski. Behe. Darwin. Evolution.
???!!!!
THE FECKIN' IDIOTS HAVE ABANDONED THE ENTIRE INTELLECTUAL FOUNDATION OF THEIR OWN WORLDVIEW!!!
My encounters with Aquinas now make me doubly pissed off at modern evangelicals! Not only do they provide shit arguments, but now I know they provide shit arguments when they don't need to.
Well if you get in touch with him later, if you get a chance, ask him what else he reads besides the bible to find out if it's more like this or more like this. Finding out what he thinks about things besides the bible should give you an idea of where his head is. I guess in that sense, it isn't a very big deal what you ask, but if you can engage him in anything worldly (politics, science, less politicky current events, etc), you're likely to get a better idea of how he's doing.
Maybe I'm taking all of the weight out from what I'm saying by disclosing my Christianity (I have ingenious justifications :) ). But that being said, you're much more likely to feel like you're getting someplace if you're engaging him on specific issues, by talking about things such as negative aspects of social conservatism or the authority of the scientific community as far as describing the natural world is concerned, or even this or that about Christianity rather than attacking "theism". (Not because it's a 'sacred cow' that can't be questioned, but because he isn't likely to respect your views about theism in itself if that's most of what you guys talk about right off the bat),
I asked originally about what your expectations were because if you want to (and if he still likes to have such rangey, high-minded discussions), you guys can knock around on things like this and over time you'll be giving him a chance to see things the way that you do. I just worried seeing your original post all by itself that you might be tempted to make this make or break at the beginning and I was thinking that you might not make that much headway, and wanted to throw in my 2 cents.
I can suggest two books that might be what you are looking for.
Lee Strobel's Case for Christ investigates the Jesus claims from an "impartial" viewpoint (ie he only interviews apologetic sources). He uses as proof, for example, that the gospel writers are eye-witnesses which, if you are reading Ehrman, you know to be bunk. (Amazon actually has quite a long 'look inside' preview for this book)
Robert Price refutes Strobel's claims in "The Case Against the Case for Christ". I haven't read the book myself, but considering Price is one who denies much of the historicity of Jesus, I'm guessing he didn't pull any punches.
Lee Strobel's A Case for Christ was a really good read that might give you some talking points. It was written by a skeptic journalist's journey looking for historical evidence of Christ and the Bible in general.
I found it interesting in how the Hebrew and Greek are both not really bothered by word order, in conveying the correct meanings. Part of the structure that helped keep the truth in place in the Bible.
I'm trying to learn enough solid Biblical truth and historical truth to help counteract the Atheism that often occurs to previous Cult members that finally escape an abusive spiritual situation. This violent reaction from your roommate makes me wonder about his spiritual past.
Have you sat down and asked about his previous experience with religion? It is possible that he received religious experience that was not about the love of Christ, but about the fear and judgement of a mean God.
I think /u/betweentwosuns comment is good and an excellent place to start. Once one gets past the fact that Christ was a real historical figure that actually existed, and that Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are reliable testimonies of what He said and did, then one comes to a crossroads. He must either reject His claims, either by simply ignoring them or outright disagreeing with them, or accept His claims by faith. One of the books that is often recommend for studying these things is Strobel's The Case for Christ and there is also a newer book out called Cold Case Christianity which is also good.
Nein das habe ich nicht geschrieben. Mir gefällt die Idee aber gut und ich kann nur jedem empfehlen dem historischen Gehalt der entsprechenden Quellen mal gründlich auf den Zahn zu fühlen und sich nicht allein von populären, auf den ersten Blick überzeugenden Meinungen leiten zu lassen (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10).
Ace,
I’m sorry for the delay. Here I go.
A tiny bit about my religious history – raised Catholic, sort of against my will, got confirmed, stopped going to church for 8 years, found God/became a Christian, attended Baptist and Pentecostal churches for a while, and eventually settled on Episcopalian. And love it – if for no other reason than as an Episcopalian, I feel like I can be myself.
Worship – very similar to the Catholic Church. I believe it could be very easy for a person with Catholic background to feel comfortable in an Episcopalian church; after I had been there for a little while, I had to ask a friend what made the Episcopal Church any different than the Catholic, because they seemed almost the same! We rely a lot on the Book of Common Prayer, as was previously mentioned, which is fine and at least helps to standardize things. Personally, I believe Scripture to be a more authoritative source, but there isn’t anything controversial I’ve found about the BCP. Incidentally, on the online version (http://www.bcponline.org/) you can click on “The Catechism” (about ¾ of the way down), which is also entitled “An Outline of the Faith”. But overall, the belief system will probably look pretty familiar to you.
There are a couple points, I think, where the faiths diverge with some significance. One is in the level of tolerance and inclusion in the Episcopal Church – where I believe they are largely leading the charge among all denominations. In the Episcopal Church, there can be (and have been) gay and women priests and bishops, and in fact our former Presiding Bishop, who presided over the entire Episcopal Church in the U.S., was a woman (Katharine Schori). Our new Presiding Bishop, Michael Curry, is African-American – and for some inspiring words, I encourage you to look up some of his soundbites (here is my favorite): http://www.episcopalchurch.org/library/video/jesus-movement. TEC USA is actually so inclusive that they were “sanctioned” by the Anglican primates - link here: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/15/world/europe/anglican-archbishops-sanction-us-episcopal-church-over-gay-marriages.html?_r=0
Of course, some individual parishes are different than others – varying degrees of inclusion to be sure – but the odds are pretty good that you can find an Episcopal church where people can just be people. Which, to me, is kinda the idea.
The second difference, of course, is that there’s no Pope. I won't get into THAT debate, but since Christ preached that we could come to Him directly as our intercessor (Romans 8:34), perhaps it would be euphemistic to say there’s a little less bureaucracy necessary in the Episcopal Church. :)
Your point about TEC “dying”, statistically, is probably true, though I’d say it’s being pruned. I’d submit that it’s probably also true that typical church attendance nation-wide is suffering the same fate. Businesses talk about competitive advantage, though, and it is probably fair to say that TEC’s advantage is indeed its genuine confession that all are welcome.
For now, I’ll table the discussion about the scriptural arguments for/against homosexuality, and/or women as priests. I’d rather sum it all up – for now – with Romans 14:4: “Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.” As someone who’s pretty interested in theological debate, though, and who's (I think) pretty open-minded to new viewpoints, I came across this link which you might find informative: http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical_evidence/no_fems_no_fairies.html
At the risk of this post becoming TL;DR (thanks, by the way), there are a couple other points I’d like to make. First, as you search for the answers you seem to be seeking so earnestly, I submit that the only true answer is Jesus. This sounds hokey, Bible-thumpy, and trite, but I also believe it’s completely true. (I refer again to the title of Bishop Curry’s NYC sidewalk sermon.) A book that sounds totally cool, but which I haven’t read, is called The Case for Christ. (https://www.amazon.com/Case-Christ-Journalists-Personal-Investigation/dp/0310339308) I’ll let you do some research, but I think my version of Christianity can be summed up thusly: Christianity is simply about Christ. The rest are just details. Denominations, I think, are generally worship styles, and each individual church is its own unique organism, many of which you’d probably enjoy equally well. There’s no perfect denomination, and no perfect church…but there has been one perfect Man, who also happened – and happens – to be a perfect God.
Finally, with regards to your family dilemma, I’d have to just be up front and say that Christianity does come with a cost. Matthew 10:37 says, “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.” Disciples and followers of Jesus through the years have been tortured, executed, cast out, etc. Discipleship isn’t always easy. My own story isn’t particularly exciting or theatrical, but I can say that I’ve experienced some of the cost. I can also say that it’s so, so worth it.
OK, friend, I think I outdid your post length - but only because this was what I needed to say. I’ll look periodically to see if you have any other thoughts, but wanted to get this over to you because it was important. I appreciate your desire for answers, and pray you find everything you’re looking for. Peace!
Drew
You could try this book that is refuting this book. Although I haven't read either.
There is a diversity amongst Christians, even conservative evangelical Christians, about what is possible when it comes to God's revelation of Himself to modern mankind. I am firmly of the position, and convinced of it by Scripture and tradition, that God no longer communicates to us directly, but rather, that He has given us a fully sufficient Scripture, good and able in every facet of life and doctrine. I know of Christians, of whom I am in doubt of their salvation, that have a different understanding, and even experience of this.
Basically, there's a world of presupposition behind a phrase like 'you can hear the Voice of God', and your understanding of how theology works is going to have a huge impact on that. You're not going to get to the bottom of how to discern God's will in a reddit post or two.
I encourage you to talk with your elders about this. Read a bit on the cessationist and continuationist arguments. It's worth reading both camps and working it through in your own church. John MacArthur has a book called Strange Fire that is cessationist. Mike Brown has a response called Authentic Fire that is continuationist. Finally, DeYoung and Harris have a good book, Just Do Something that I think goes a long way to helping equip people to answer questions like the one you are experiencing.
edit ze spelink
Be REAL careful. I've had things happen that made it seem for sure God was telling me one thing and in hindsight, I don't think it was him and if it was, it may have not been what I thought.
God may answer you or he may not answer you in the way you think. For example; God may tell you to pray and read the scriptures, gain Wisdom and Knowledge from them. Then using the Wisdom of the spirit decide for yourself if you want to move further with a person. Take it slow and watch. Be very patient.
Then if it's what you BOTH want and you have used Biblical Wisdom, then let it be. But God may not say yes or no. He may want you to make the decision based on Godly Wisdom, Knowledge, and Faith.
You have to be careful because you could get led by your feelings of the flesh, a familiar spirit, all types of things.
It sounds like you have a huge crush on someone and you want God to go ahead and tell you yes, so you can pursue it or to tell you no, so you can get over it and not have to deal with any kind of rejection or hard feelings. This is normal but God will often times want us to do things with his guidance rather than him doing it for us.
Just like if you raise a child, as the child gets older, you do a disservice if you do everything for the child or if you know what will happen and you always tell your child what will happen, you are not allowing the child to learn.
This sounds weird coming from me because I was really bad about doing this. I wanted God to tell me Yes or No to every single thing I did in life, from the smallest thing to the biggest things. I didn't want to MOVE until God had said something.
That is when I started to realize it's not always like that and I posted here on this forum and a book was recommended to me. This book came in the next day even though I didn't pay for next day, from Amazon. It's not a big read, you can read it quickly. I do think it will help you.
I believe God speaks to people today just as much as he ever has but I think more than ever we don't grow up and take responsibility as Christians.
It's by Kevin DeYoung, it's called, 'Just do Something OR How to make a decision without dreams, visions, fleeces, impressions, Open Doors, Random Bible Verses, Casting Lots, Liver Shivers, Writing in the Sky, etc"
Here is a link to it: https://www.amazon.com/Just-Do-Something-Liberating-Approach/dp/0802411592/ref=asc_df_0802411592/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312734536225&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9018257537480004976&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=200524&hvtargid=pla-439247114772&psc=1
Several good books on this subject:
You're going to get a lot of advice regarding "what God wants," "where God leads," and "God's will for you."
> For this is the will of God, your sanctification (1 Thessalonians 4:3 ESV)
God is far more concerned with your holiness than your occupation or income. Love God and make wise choices in life. The counsel of your elders is just a part of making wise decisions. Looking for a leg twitch or a burning sensation to tell you what to do like some pagan mystic is not walking in the Spirit.
I recommend a short book on the topic by DeYoung. Here's a non-referral link. It brings a lot of clarity and freedom to the issue, and is very grounded in Scripture. If you feel safe enough to PM me your address, I will buy it for you and have it shipped to you.
I highly recommend reading A Ghost Boy- it is about this very same subject. Based on a true story of a misdiagnosed boy who everyone thought was brain dead but was actually completely aware he just couldn't communicate it.
Related: NPR just did a story called Locked-In Man on their new series called Invisibilia. Martin Pistorius also wrote a book on his experience called Ghost Boy that is worth the read.
There's a few, but three that I'd read are:
https://www.amazon.com/Torn-Rescuing-Gospel-Gays-vs-Christians-Debate/dp/1455514306/
https://www.amazon.com/UnClobber-Rethinking-Misuse-Bible-Homosexuality/dp/066426221X/
and http://www.godandthegaychristian.com/
Link here : https://www.amazon.com/Cop-Under-Fire-Hashtags-Politics/dp/1617958573/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
Could it be you disagree with the particular strain of Christianity in which you were raised? There's nothing that says we must forsake science or reason to be Christian. Some of our greatest thinkers were, in fact, believers.
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Take it for what it's worth, but maybe you could start with some reading about Christianity; its history, its teachings, etc. There are a couple of things I'd suggest (full disclaimer: I was raised Baptist but converted to Eastern Orthodoxy):
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Lost to the West, not a Christian history book per se, but more an overview of how Christianity, among other things, helped shape the West.
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Mere Christianity, which maybe you've already read. It helped pull me away from the ledge of my youthful agnosticism.
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Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy, a podcast, admittedly from the Orthodox point of view, providing an overview of all the varied flavors of Christianity.
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I hope this is in some way helpful.
The case for football's Greatest Quarterback:Tom Brady vs the NFL
Go Long (book about jerry rice)
Never Die Easy (walter payton autobiography)
Coming back STRONGER (Drew Brees)
What it takes to be #1 (Vince Lombardi)
I've wavered on this but I came across this book by Kevin DeYoung and I highly recommend it for anyone who is confused on this subject.
I also recommend this one by John Piper because idleness and procrastination are the real barriers to doing God's will.
Things like the Dead Sea Scrolls and other letters written by certain apostles are maintained and are actual original documents or 1 step copies of originals Written around 70-80AD.
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Some things we teach to our kids in school however about even more recent figures like Genghis Khan or Roman Empire figures come from several time removed copies or even just hearsay from word of mouth passed down over time which were recorded hundreds of years after their occurrences. There are some extremely smart people out there who are even more skeptical than yourself (maybe) who spent their life's work to uncover truth to historical evidence of the bible and many of them find really sound evidence that what is in the bible have many reputable sources. Just my two cents!
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EDIT: And I am willing to be downvoted for what I said above, and its just opinion again I am not tryign to convert people here.
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Here is a publication by an Atheist turned Christian and why he turned that way based on decades of research
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https://www.amazon.com/Case-Christ-Journalists-Personal-Investigation/dp/0310339308
James sire, the universe next door was on my reading list in college, along with a few others. Hers a list of books that might be helpful. That being said most useful apologetics books aren't going to be super easy to digest, if your looking for a place to start "The Case for Christ" is a great introduction.
I would recommend reading The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel. It has a lot of the evidence and sources I'm alluding to.
You might find this interesting.
It is the story of an atheist investigative reporter whose wife becomes a Christian, prompting him to set out to disprove that Jesus existed and was who he said he was.
I don't know about "Hollywood Jesus" but to me Wolverine as a Christ Figure in X-men makes about as much sense as the "Gospel According to Star Wars" book I saw at Barnes and Nobles.
Reminds me of all the "Gospel According to …" books.
Of course, there is a Gospel According to Star Wars book as well. I think it is funny that Amazon lists a Joel Osteen book in the "related books" section.
I don't have any real advice but I wanted to express some kind of solidarity(!)
Honestly I find the whole "faith" thing pretty bewildering. I've been in a faith crisis or period of doubting of varying deepness for about two years now, with no obvious sign of it ending either towards faith or towards agnosticism. At the start of this period, I felt like I did all I could to stop the "slide" out of certainty but the more I looked, the more cracks seemed to open up and need addressing. On the topic of "faith being about seeking certainty", this book (Greg Boyd, Benefit of the Doubt) has been interesting - he's trying to say that a lot of evangelicals have a view of what "faith" is that sets them up to have faith crises like mine (the idea of something like "salvation by how sure I am").
That said, I'm still hopeful that I might be able to make some kind of Christianity "work".
I guess for me one of the biggest maybe-hints that there is a God trying to woo me back is how I keep being interested in it. It comes and goes, but for weeks at a time I'll throw myself at reading books, articles, posting here, talking to friends. I'm in a lull again now, and I guess it might not pick up again, but a good friend of mine has remarked on how he doesn't see me as having "given up" - and I took some comfort from that, at least.
And for the most part, I still like Jesus. I might even more than I used to when I said I loved him... and that makes me wonder whether this process could be about refining my rather warped views of God and Christianity and moving towards a more wholesome view.
Pretty much his whole story from the beginning all the way up to when he met his wife and started regaining more ability to control his body. I read it in a couple nights before going to bed. Here it is on Amazon.
Ghost Boy is a book that tells a compelling story.
I also think that he heard his parents talking about how he was a burden to keep alive or something. I'll see if I can find it.
Edit: I'm 99% sure it's this man, but the article doesn't say about the rape or sexual abuse or anything. I'll dig further.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2015/01/09/376084137/trapped-in-his-body-for-12-years-a-man-breaks-free
Edit2: I think I found it! I think I read it in the book he wrote about his experience. https://www.amazon.com/Ghost-Boy-Miraculous-Misdiagnosed-Trapped/dp/1400205832
I have three books on my shelves at the moment that I'd gladly recommend:
Torn by Justin Lee. Outside of the US the book is called Unconditional.
Bible Gender Sexuality by James V. Brownson.
God and the Gay Christian by Matthew Vines.
Please, read the book Torn. This is a good book about a Godly man who is a homosexual.
I think often this comes down to semantics. One Christian says "I hate religion", another says "but religion is vital." It sounds like they are diametrically opposed. But, really, when they get talking, they are just defining "religion" differently- they actually largely agree with each other.
One big proponent of this idea of "hating religion" is Bruxy Cavey, an anabaptist pastor of a large group of churches in Ontario. I would recommend The End of Religion if you really want to dig into this.
Here is a quote from it that basically sums up this author's thoughts:
>the primary mission of Jesus was to tear down religion as the foundation for people’s connection with God and to replace it with himself- the Divine coming to us in our own context and our own form. This is what Jesus called ‘the kingdom of God.’ It is God and his people, living together the way he originally intended.
He defines religion as "any reliance on systems or institutions, rules or rituals as our conduit to God". This is bad, according to Cavey. Jesus is our only conduit to God.
This guy doesn't think that the church, sacraments, and other "religious" things are necessarily bad. Heck, he is the teaching pastor of what could be described as a mega-church: structure is a big part of what he does. But he says these are bad when they replace relationship with God. Another quote is something like
>Structure [religon] is to serve the substance [relationship with God]. It is not bad, but is when it replaces the substance. Structure is only the enemy when we view it as our means to salvation.
Ah! But there is the interesting truth hidden in there -- by providing a sacrifice (himself in flesh), God showed just how much he values each of us. (For a good read -- try Bruxy Cavey's book 'The end of religion' -- http://www.amazon.com/The-End-Religion-Encountering-Spirituality/dp/1600060676 or his recent teaching series (podcast & video available) titled 'Why did Jesus die?' http://www.themeetinghouse.com/teaching/why-did-jesus-die/ )
Examples of this are riddled throughout the old testament, take for example Abraham pleading on behalf of Sodom. He asks God if he finds 50 righteous in Sodom, will he spare the city? God responds yes, and then Abraham asks if he were to find 45, would God spare the city?
Yes. This goes on until Abraham asks if he finds just ten righteous in Sodom, will God spare the city? God's response: Yes.
Jeremiah 5 goes on and mentions if even one righteous person is found, Jerusalem would be spared of it's destruction.
If God cares about each of us, and shows no favor amongst us, how is it that he can forgive us when we wrong one another in such grievous ways?
It would require a great sacrifice (with Christianity stemming from Judaism, where sacrifices were used for atonement/redemption from sin) that perhaps even the Jewish people at the time didn't expect. Worse, they too put him to death when there was no fault found in any of his actions.
Jeremiah 5:26:
“Among my people are wicked men
who lie in wait like men who snare birds
and like those who set traps to catch men.
Like cages full of birds,
their houses are full of deceit;
they have become rich and powerful
and have grown fat and sleek.
Their evil deeds have no limit;
they do not plead the case of the fatherless to win it,
they do not defend the rights of the poor.
Should I not punish them for this?”
declares the Lord.
I second the Good and Angry book.
My Professor recommended that book to me, as well as:
Richard Baxter
http://www.bradhambrick.com/?s=overcoming+anger
Uprooting Anger
The Quest for Meekness
and
http://theblazingcenter.com/2014/07/6-critical-truths-to-understand-about-anger.html
The late David Powlison’s book on anger, Good and Angry, is perhaps the best book on anger I have ever read, better than Robert Jones’ by a long shot. In addition, he has also written a book called Power Encounters (it’s out of print though) on the topic of spiritual warfare from a Reformed and gracious/non-dogmatic perspective. Both books are pastorally wise and helpful.
If you’re not familiar with David Powlison, he was a biblical counselor and the executive director for CCEF (Christian Counseling Education Foundation). He had made significant contributions to biblical counseling and his wisdom will be missed as he recently passed away. The Lord bless you.
Pick up both of these books.
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https://smile.amazon.com/Small-Book-about-Big-Problem-ebook/dp/B076DHKTZT/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=ed+welch&qid=1548199369&sr=8-2
https://smile.amazon.com/Good-Angry-Irritation-Complaining-Bitterness/dp/1942572972/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=good+and+angry&qid=1548199363&sr=8-1
Here are some books I recommend. Some are free on kindle. Check out a library. They will have these books.
Read the 4 Gospels and Acts of the Apostles. Just read them.
http://www.amazon.com/Confessions-St-Augustine-Saint-ebook/dp/B00AQM75SC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1408113491&sr=8-2&keywords=st+augustine+confessions
http://www.amazon.com/Aquinass-Shorter-Summa-Thomass-Theologica/dp/1928832431/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1408113525&sr=8-1&keywords=st+thomas+aquinas
http://www.amazon.com/When-Church-Was-Young-Fathers-ebook/dp/B00LWIU1EE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=undefined&sr=8-2&keywords=early+church
http://www.amazon.com/Orthodoxy-Moody-Classics-Gilbert-Chesterton-ebook/dp/B00DEUQ9GW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1408113746&sr=8-1&keywords=gk+chesterton
http://www.amazon.com/Mere-Christianity-Lewis-Signature-Classics-ebook/dp/B002BD2UR0/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1408113766&sr=8-3&keywords=cs+lewis
http://www.amazon.com/The-Screwtape-Letters-C-Lewis/dp/0060652934/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1408113766&sr=8-4&keywords=cs+lewis
If you're looking for literary resources, first off I recommend a good study Bible. With scripture alone you can discover some incredible things, but we are fortunate that plenty of people smarter than we have gone through some of that effort for us. (I should mention that while I don't agree with all of John MacArthur's theology, I use this Bible and find many of his notes fascinating.)
Mere Christianity is a short and rich read by a great (albeit sometimes difficult to understand) author and you already have it, so certainly, you should read it. It boils many things down into easily digestible points.
Another resource I recommend is Lee Strobel's The Case for Christ. Think of it as Apologetics 101. It covers some basic Who, What, Where, When, and Whys of scripture and historical accuracies. Strobel has a franchise of books that similarly covers several topics for those looking for insight into Christianity (Creator, Faith, Resurrection, etc).
There are plenty more resources that I haven't personally read that you might want to look into. Here are some authors I would sugest learning more about: Francis Chan, Chuck Smith, Ray Comfort,
Additionally, you may find some interesting (and free0 resources online. Just like book authors, you should use discernment when pursuing authors as plenty of people take some crazy liberties with scripture, but I would recommend Blue Letter Bible and Reasons To Believe. The first has a wealth of knowledge at your fingertips. It can even replace a study Bible if you wanted. As I use it, I read scripture and then expand the tools to 1) understand the original Hebrew or Greek words at a glance, and listen to or read commentaries by a number of people. The second link (Reasons) has been an interesting place to investigate more modern questions I have regarding science and faith. It's mostly a resource for specific questions, but I've read some really thought provoking things there. Again, please use care not to take anyone's opinion whole (my own included!) and pursue truth and what is right and good.
Lastly, I recommend you pray. If you're seeking God, then talk to Him. Ask Him to help. Keep an open mind and expect to be challenged and surprised along the way! I pray something mentioned above helps someone, somewhere in some way.
EDIT: I also wanted to mention Gary Habermas whom I've seen speak and whose work I've read some of. His expertise is apologetics and he identifies some great points. :)
People have different theories of heaven. Some believe hell is separation from God. Along these lines, some also believe you can be in hell in the present, while alive. Maybe you are, maybe you don’t notice, maybe that’s okay for you right now. For many people of a spiritual/religious tradition, talking to an atheist - no offense - is like a flying bird talking to a flightless bird about being airborne and the associated benefits. If you don’t buy into the idea of flight, why are you even concerned about it? Why should we talk about the clouds in any depth when you only see them from the ground and even then as an obstruction to enlightenment?
Christ says salvation is available to all who believe in and follow him. No Christians are perfect and that’s implicit in the understanding of corruption. You aren’t expected to be perfect. But if your heart is open to God and you see the world for what it is and desire to hear and be closer to God, the book of John is a great starting point, I think. Or the book Mere Christianity by CS Lewis.
There’s nothing wrong with being stubborn, skeptical or having strong opinions. It’s never to late and I assure you that you don’t have to tie half your brain behind your back to be a Christian. One of my favorite quotes is, “The god an atheist does not believe in is usually not the God of the Bible.” (Gerald Schroeder, The Science of God) I would ask your friend if she could recommend a Pastor to meet with and perhaps discuss some of the major issues you have with Christianity.
It is true that Christianity comes with a built in support system and religion focuses on concerns outside of the self, such as helping others and serving. Potentially self-sacrificing virtues such as forgiveness, love, and gratitude are also highly valued within religious communities. Throughout human history the role of Christianity has been instrumental in who we are today. The Christian church has been a major source of social services, education, literacy, education, theology, philosophy and arts & culture.
Just remember that faith is not opposed by reason; faith is opposed by fanaticism – which is an abuse of reason.
Edit: Oh, and if you want to prepare a little (and you seem like the type) before you talk to someone, I recommend reading some introductory things. Of course it'd be great to read through the New Testament or in the least read the Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) but I also I recommend something like C.S. Lewis Mere Christianity.
As /u/Kdjsins points out, this deviates a bit from the original question. If you are genuinely interested, I would recommend Lee Strobel's 'Case For Faith' or C.S. Lewis' "Mere Christianity" for a more philosophical perspective.
There is empirical evidence for many faith systems. For example, there is excellent evidence that Buddhism is very beneficial in Palliative Care, because of their understanding of suffering. Likewise, there was a universal belief that Hittites were not a people group and this comprised evidence for the lack of historicity of the Old Testament, until the last century when other documents were found and archeological digs discovered an entire Hittite city. Finding like this (and there are many) are a great point of evidence for the Bible being a historically reliable document.
I am not saying that faith cannot be unfounded, I am saying it is not necessarily unfounded, and in the case of Christianity specifically, it is definitely not unfounded. You can dispute the evidence and any reasoning person should, but you can't deny its existence.
Did someone say reading list?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005TA7PSG/ - Read
http://www.amazon.com/Revelation-Four-Views-Parallel-Commentary/dp/0840721285/ - Read, which help me also to get…
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003YCQ8W0/ - Read parts of it
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004H1UOPE/ - Read
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002BD2UR0/ - Read
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003TXTC22/ - A pastor I follow online recommend this. I haven’t got to it yet.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0079QQ0RK/ - No way am I going to finish this!
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003CYLD5C/ - Haven’t started yet.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0030CVQ5I/ - Started, but read some of the low star reviews.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007J71S62/ - I recently got this book, but haven’t started it yet.
http://www.amazon.com/Petrus-Romanus-Final-Pope-Here/dp/0984825614/ - Uh… yeah. I read it.
***
All of that said, I know of a few Messianic Jews on YouTube but don’t know if there is any such congregation in my area. Alas I am at work and can’t dig out the names here. I also like to pick apart how they view the “rest of us” since, IMO, Christmas and Easter is so paganized.
http://www.reddit.com/r/INTP/comments/1dy1ws/intp_christians/c9v2tia?context=3
http://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/1c3qyk/jewishness_and_the_trinity_confirmations_and/
Anyway, when I got more time and less interruptions (i.e. AT HOME), I’ll check out the rest. I know of Paul Washer already.
$5 for kindle or kindle apps.
>I'm not sure what happened with society but this is really really fucked up, I'd probably be fucking escorts till I get old but I wouldn't really get into a relationship, the shit is not worth it
--
It's probably "beyond" the ability of most (*) here to comprehend, but I would suggest the C.S. Lewis book/essay collection:
"The Abolition of Man" (**)
--
As one means of gaining a philosophical understanding and an answer to your query of "What [the fuck!] Happened??" to our society/civilization.
---
* Seriously, no offense intended... as cliche as it is to state, in many ways the "It's NOT your fault" line/sentiment (i.e. the trope from the Good Will Hunting film) is actually applicable for most/many of you -- you were unwittingly indoctrinated into a mindset (and have for the entirely or your lives "swum in" polluted waters) that makes it virtually impossible for you to comprehend. (And ironic as it may seem, THAT is one of the things that Lewis' book explains, or at least attempts to explain & predicted would happen.)
--
** Note: While I link to the Amazon Kindle version (which I think is better to read/digest such a "crunchy/chewy" tome) -- there are in fact online copies of the text available in various formats -- plain text, PDF, etc -- just search on the title & author. (BTW in many countries, Lewis' works are now legitimately in the "public domain" as he passed away 50+ years ago.)
> Abolition of Man
That's another one of those odd product listings I've seen lately where not only is the digital version more expensive than the print version, but the print version plus the digital version is cheaper (via Amazon's MatchBook) than the digital version alone.
Also one of my favorites!
That’s far too complex of a question to answer quickly. I would refer you to this quick read: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B002BXH5RU/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1525783811&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=abolition+of+man
Just finished "Coming Back Stronger" by Drew Brees.
The book is more about him, considering it's a memoir, but also discusses a lot about the Saints organization and their Super Bowl run.
It was a fantastic book. Would definitely recommend.
I'm not sure if this is quite what you're looking for, but this book changed my whole thinking on this topic, and my life. It's really short, too, like an hour-long read, but it's probably one of the best books I've ever read. The gist is that God doesn't have some special plan for our lives that he expects us to figure out. Our job is to be obedient to his Word and to live for Christ, and the rest--what jobs we get, who we marry, what color we paint our bathrooms--is up to us.
Hey! I don't know if this is something you are interested in or if you're a reader but I have a few books that have helped me while trying to figure out what to do with my life.
This book will walk you through 3 main areas in your life to come up with a "chazown" and then help you make short-term goals and actions to pursue your chazown. There is also a website that goes with the book here.
This book truly is liberating. It will tell you that making decisions is ok and that God can use any decision you make for His glory. For me, the pressure of making the "perfect" decision in all aspects of life were suddenly lifted.
I hope that helps some. If you want to talk more about these books or anything really, feel free to pm me.
Mere Christianity is an excellent read. C. S. Lewis starts with a few secular assumptions and winds up leading the reader down a train of thought that explains how Christianity makes sense. Lewis was Anglican, not Catholic, but it sounds like you're struggling with Christianity in general, not just the Catholic Church.
http://www.amazon.com/Mere-Christianity-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652888/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1313921416&sr=1-1
I am a rabid atheist, but I understand that Mere Christianity, by C. S. Lewis is extremely highly regarded by thoughtful Christians.
It happens with wisdom, not age. (Assuming) you are questioning the assertions of your current church. This could be a good time to dig deeper. Mere Christianity is a good place to start if you haven't read it already. Half Price Books will usually have a copy for a few dollars.
idk_and_idc did a great job answering your questions. I'm no theologian, but I had many of the same questions before I started coming to church. I know that I am by no means qualified to answer all of your questions, but I may have some great places to direct you. I'm not sure if you're looking for resource recommendations, but I thought I'd suggest a few that seem relevant to your post.
"The authors carefully examine positions taken by evangelical scholars on seventeen seminal issues. They lay out the biblical, theological, and philosophical arguments for each position in point-counterpoint fashion and discuss possible objections. "
http://www.amazon.com/Across-Spectrum-Understanding-Evangelical-Theology/dp/080103793X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1344124761&sr=8-1&keywords=across+the+spectrum
A blog post. The description is "Here's a short course on the relationship of the Old Testament to the New Testament."
http://www.amazon.com/Mere-Christianity-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652888/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1344124813&sr=1-1&keywords=mere+christianity
I joined reddit specifically to respond to your inquiry, so I hope I did it right! :) I find your questions to be very insightful & if I can try to be of any further assistance please be sure to let me know.
I haven't read it in a long while, but CS Lewis' Mere Christianity is a very readable introduction to the faith that deals with a lot of common anxieties. It's a very common book, so if you don't want to buy it you can likely find it in your local library.
You can dispute all the evidence, we aren't going to come to any agreements here. I think still it is obvious that everything around us happened by design rather than a series of random events. You do not want God to exist and it is clouding your thinking. I am not the world's greatest apologist so please don't just think that because I could not give you a satisfactory answer everything is settled.
These questions have been asked and answered for millenia by people much smarter than both of us. If you are truely a man of science searching for the truth then I recommend reading some classic books on these topics.
Here is one I think is a good intro
Mere Christianity
One final thing on the 5 ways, you are correct that those first 3 are related, but the key is that they prove with certainty that there has to be something which had no cause. However, a thing which has no cause means that it has always existed and existence itself requires this being to be. The assertion that a thing could arise from nothing is not possible. If you dispute the principle that something cannot come from nothing then you are essentially denying the concept of science - effects have causes. So if you are claiming that the universe began to exist, at the Big Bang, then the universe could not be this special uncaused thing.
>I don't need to. The assertions is that a physical thing can't create another physical thing. That is demonstrably untrue. You're placing restricting characteristics, not me.
It's not that a physical thing can't create another physical thing (even though it would actually be a physical thing creating a physical thing out of nothing), it's that the werewolf, a physical thing, would have nowhere to be while creating the universe, and no time to do it in.
>If a wearwolf doesn't exist, it can be whatever definition I'd like. Just like your god.
No this is idiotic. The word werewolf has a definition. You can't just change the definition however you'd like. If you can, then the conversation is meaningless because you'll just change it to be exactly like god, and then we're not talking about werewolves anymore.
> I would need to know why you think anything is likely in order to demonstrate why my wearwolf is likely. You would have to present your argument for why god is likely to have created the universe. I can then replace god with anything, and the argument will probably not change, if it's any of the popular ones. To be clear. Any argument I present would be a straw man of whatever you actually believe God is. I don't know how else to explain this.
Wrong. What I have to do is show why a werewolf is less likely to have created the universe than god, and I have. You don't seem to have anything to say in response.
>It is informed. Not sure that infants have developed morals, but I'm sure you have a well thought out argument on why slavery and genocide are cool.
I never said slavery and genocide are cool, I said you have an infantile understanding of religion.
>They're equally likely within the context of an argument for the likelihood of any being creating a universe. I personally don't think the likelihood of either is even measurable. If you say god is likely, because of reasons. I could replace god with a wearwolf, and the reasons wouldn't need to change.
Yeah you keep saying this and it's not true. You get that you're supposed to be making an argument, right? All you're doing is repeating that they're same over and over, and not explaining how. Prove to me that they're the same likelihood. Why are you saying anything else? All you should be doing is proving that, or taking back what you said.
>If a being needs to be capable of creating a universe to create a universe, then that is the only characteristic necessary for creating a universe. Adding additional requirements only makes it harder to prove. My wearwolf can be both a wearwolf and have the ability to create a universe. That ability wouldn't make it less of a wearwolf. It could possibly be more likely, because the characteristics of a wearwolf can be found in nature. Whereas the common characteristics given to a god are found NOWHERE. So what seems like a bigger stretch? But again, if you assert that additional characteristics are required to be capable of creating a universe, the onus is on you to argue that assertion.
The fact that there were men and wolves in nature absolutely does not make it more likely that a werewolf created the universe, because NOTHING about men or wolves would indicate that they can create universes. In fact, we know so much about them that it makes it way less likely. God, being defined as an all-powerful metaphysical being is much more likely to have created the universe, because nothing about the nature of god, as is traditionally defined, prevents it from doing so.
>A omniscient god would know. Otherwise, we could start with any that is measurable and predictable, and work our way towards a reasonable conclusion.
An omniscient god would know what?
>I don't have an argument to present unless you give me your reason for believing a universe creating being is likely at all. Then we can discuss why a wearwolf is as equally as likely as a that being. I have no idea why you think what you think, and I'm not going to guess from a wiki page.
You're very confused. I'm not proving to you that god exists, I'm proving to you that it's more likely that god created the universe than a werewolf. The fact that there is a long line of argumentation for god is itself evidence, because there is no corresponding argumentation for a werewolf creating the universe. If you have some, feel free to present it. Since you flippantly dismissed the fact that I gave you a wikipedia page to introduce you to apologetics, here are some books:
https://www.amazon.com/Mere-Christianity-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652926/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1509549912&sr=1-1&keywords=mere+christianity
https://www.amazon.com/Last-Superstition-Refutation-New-Atheism/dp/1587314525/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_t_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=V2XKAWX4HD8JGV0KGHDZ
https://www.amazon.com/Aquinas-Beginners-Guide-Edward-Feser/dp/1851686908/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_t_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=V2XKAWX4HD8JGV0KGHDZ
https://www.amazon.com/Five-Proofs-Existence-Edward-Feser/dp/1621641333
Mere Christianity
Man, Myth, Messiah: Answering History's Greatest Question
Both of these books were written by skeptics who reversed their positions based on evidence.
To become a better person takes intentionality, meaning you have to make a decision to make a change every time something new and unwholesome presents itself to you regarding yourself. The Bible is certainly a plumb line on major things to do to become a better person, but it's also full of pictures of individuals who showed the way for being amazing people.
I've found that the more I study leadership, psychology, emotional intelligence, etc., the more I see a blue print for it in the Bible, in particular, demonstrated by Christ himself.
If you want to be the best version of yourself, study servant-based leadership. Jesus was a servant leader. The apostles learned from Jesus how to be servant leaders. Servant leadership is the mortal granularity that made the gospel so transformative and helped it spread like a wildfire. If you are essentially having to "sell" a new religious belief system in the 1st century, you've got to be able to believe the salesman as well as the integrity of the product, right? The product is salvation and the sales pitch is a new way of walking in freedom and living a wholesome, abundant life. Christ's leadership model did just that.
If you want some good reads on leadership, check these out, and then read the new testament chapter by chapter and verse by verse. Keep in mind, you don't need a title or position to be a leader -- that's what servant leadership is all about.
"Spiritual Leadership" by J. Oswald Sanders: Spiritual Leadership: Principles of Excellence For Every Believer (Sanders Spiritual Growth Series) https://www.amazon.com/dp/0802416705/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_u.ZhDbPEN8952
"Mere Christianity" by C.S. Lewis: Mere Christianity https://www.amazon.com/dp/0060652926/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_Ma0hDbTCSG70T
More leadership for business and for life:
"The 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership" by John C. Maxwell: The 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership: Follow Them and People Will Follow You (10th Anniversary Edition) https://www.amazon.com/dp/0785288376/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_cc0hDbRCMAGMZ
"The 5 Levels of Leadership" by John C. Maxwell: The 5 Levels of Leadership: Proven Steps to Maximize Your Potential https://www.amazon.com/dp/1599953633/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_6c0hDbK4RV56Y
I think you're confusing morality and ethics - you can't use one to prove/disprove, or even support the other.
I'm a guy by the way. I think we're cool. You do you and I'll do me. :)
If you're ever interested in revisiting Christianity (from an intellectual, not faith, perspective) I would suggest this book - https://www.amazon.com/Case-Christ-Journalists-Personal-Investigation/dp/0310345863/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1522900460&sr=8-1&keywords=the+case+for+christ
Strobel applies legal tests to historical claims about the bible to assess how they hold up. It is a fascinating read.
Another good one is this one - https://www.amazon.com/Mere-Christianity-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652926/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1522900483&sr=8-1&keywords=mere+christianity
Regardless of your theistic persuasion, this one is a life changer. The insight Lewis provides into human nature is amazing (although he is a little sexist in one section).
These are two books I have found helpful
https://www.amazon.ca/Basic-Christianity-John-Stott/dp/0830834133
https://www.amazon.ca/Mere-Christianity-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652926
dated but very good and available in e-reader format
You should look into the story of C.S. Lewis, one of the most famous theologians and Christian writers in modern history. He, like you, was raised a Christian but became an atheist at the age of 15. When he was an atheist, he started reading about Christianity and asking some of the same questions you are, but finding answers. Two of my favorite books that helped me confirm my faith are linked below. Give them a read before you make any decisions.. Mere Christianity is a little tough to get through, but I have a copy with plenty of pencil markings in it next to my bed.
- Mere Christianity by CS Lewis
- The Reason for God by Timothy Keller
Also, about where you were born.. Catholics believe God knew us from the day he created us. Even if you were born in a Muslim family, you would have found your way to the same place somehow.
Peter Kreeft's Shorter Summa of St. Thomas Aquinas' Summa is short enough to read in a couple days.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0898704383/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awd_yJx-wb54M8KZ2
And C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity explains the Christian concept of God.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0060652926/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awd_-Kx-wbD04HZK2
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Title | Sexual Morality by C.S. Lewis Doodle (BBC Talk 14, Mere Christianity, Bk 3, Chapter 5)
Description | C.S Lewis looks at the virtue of chastity. Notes below... This is an illustration of Lewis’ 4th talk of the third radio series called ‘Christian Behaviour’. This became Chapter 5 of Book 3, in the book called ‘Mere Christianity’. You can find the book here: http://www.amazon.com/Mere-Christianity-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652926 (0:36) "and in what words" - Lewis: “Sit down and draw your nude. When you have finished it, take your pen and attempt the written description. Before you have finished you w...
Length | 0:20:17
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Hello, I'm a bit late to this parade (I just heard Dr. Peterson's podcast with Joe Rogan yesterday) but I wanted to weigh in here.
There are a lot of good sources from a variety of Christian viewpoints. Many of the ones already listed are very good, but I don't see anything from my own particular version of Christianity (Eastern Orthodoxy), so I wanted to suggest two resource for you from that perspective as well as another from C.S. Lewis whose words are held dear by most Christians.
The first is a lecture by Fr. John Behr, the current dean of St Vladimir's Orthodox Theological Seminary. He holds Masters of Philosophy and Doctor of Philosophy from Oxford University. This one is on YouTube and is 1.5 hours in length. It is called Death, the Final Frontier.There are a couple of minutes of fluff at the beginning but it starts to really roll into something I think Jordan Peterson fans would enjoy at the 3-minute mark. It is ostensibly about death, but it is a great critique of modern western culture viewed through the lens of liturgical Christianity.
This second is a recording of a lecture provided by a former dean of the same seminary that I think cuts to the heart of what Christianity actually means. It is called "The Word of the Cross" by Rev. Dr. Thomas Hopko and is around two hours total and has been broken into four individual sections by an Orthodox podcast publisher:
Part 1
[Part 2] (http://www.ancientfaith.com/specials/hopko_lectures/the_word_of_the_cross_part_2)
Part 3
Part 4
Lastly, I would direct you toward the writings of C.S. Lewis. When I was a young teenage atheist, his arguments were very persuasive for me and have been very popular amongst most Christians. I know many Protestants, Orthodox, and Catholics who have all found their first theological footing in Lewis' work. Mere Christianity is probably the best source to steer you toward, but I think his best ideas can be found in The Abolition of Man, The Great Divorce, and Till We Have Faces: A Myth Retold. Since you've professed a preference for audio content, I will point you toward a YouTube playlist of the series of BBC radio broadcast lectures that C.S. Lewis gave during WWII that were the core of what later became Mere Christianity.
I'm tempted to also suggest that you read Thomas Merton, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Kirkegaard, Dostoyevsky, St. John Chrysostom, St. Thomas Aquinas, and many, many others. Enjoy your journey!
A few read worthy books on this topic:
C.S. Lewis - Mere Christianity
Alvin Plantinga - Where the Conflict Really Lies: Science, Religion, and Naturalism
Vishal Mangalwadi - The Book That Made Your World: How the Bible Created the Soul of Western Civilization
Craig A. Evans - Fabricating Jesus: How Modern Scholars Distort the Gospels
You can find longer list over at r/ christianapologetics
I actually deconverted from Catholicism in college. I'm a revert.
I never got into into the party culture. I'm really against drinking and doing drugs, and I've always been skeptical of sex outside of a committed relationship and those morals stuck with me even after I deconverted from Christianity. What I did encounter was a lot of intellectual arguments against religion that I couldn't answer. However, what I also eventually discovered was that most of those objections had been heard before and responded to, at least in some manner.
So, here's my semi-comprehensive list of apologetics apologetics resources that I've accumulated over the years.
IMHO, the following books cover all the essentials very well and are probably must reads. You can buy used or online copies of them relatively cheaply, under 20 dollars if you're in the US. Check out Trent Horn's Answering Atheism, How the Catholic Church Built Western Civ, Mere Christianity by CS Lewis (you can probably get Mere Christianity at your at public library), and What is Marriage? Man and Woman a Defense for defending the concept of natural marriage. You should also read How to Argue which is a free pdf. I haven't researched abortion apologetics as extensively as other areas but I know Trent Horn has some books on those.
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I'm not going to say you should read all of my remaining recommendations but I'm putting the rest out there for you so you know they exist.
Now, no list of apologtics is going to cover every argument about Christianity so I would also recommend some online resources. www.reddit.com/r/Catholicism is an amazing forum. It has tons of Catholics who are way more knowledgable and experienced that me who can answer questions and stuff. You may or may not have heard of it ;). I also recommend William Lane Craig's site: http://www.reasonablefaith.org/question-answer. Again, Craig is a protestant so don't look to him for a defense of Catholicism. However, he's good when it comes to defending the basics of Christianity from atheism. Catholic Answers is good. Fr Barron is good. Strange Notions can be good, I link to it in my last paragraph.
The exact relationship between faith and reason was my biggest stumbling block on the road back to Catholicism, so I have some good recommendations on that topic. I recommend the papal encycle Fides et Ratio and How the Catholic Church Built Western Civ. Plantinga's book Where the Conflict Really Lies is also popular and uses evolution to make an interesting argument against materialism. Plantinga's not a Catholic so I don't know how well they would square with Catholic philosophies like Thomism, but, yeah, he exists. He also wrote this giant essay on faith and science, which was helpful. The book God and the Philosophers is pretty good too, it's an anthology of different Christian philosophers and talks about how they converted to Christianity.
Some comprehensive (but expensive) books by non-Catholics include The Blackwell Companion to natural theology by William Lane Craig (not a Catholic). I've heard good things about Richard Swinburne's apologetics trilogy The Coherence of Theism, The Existence of God, and Faith and Reason. Swinburne is Eastern Orthodox, just for the record.
I want to give a special shoutout to Edward Fesser. He's a secular atheist philosopher who converted to Catholicism. You can read his conversion story here. He also has a blog that you can google. Fesser also wrote a bunch of books that are highly recommended by people on this sub, although I haven't read them.
I recommend reading Mere Christianity, by C.S. Lewis.
Tl;dr: pastor, bible, catechism, mere Christianity and other books, the bible project, and other podcasts.
You should really consider talking to your pastor or a pastor at your church. Either go up to one and ask for a meeting, or go through the church email address or whatever contact method you have. Many protestant churches have membership or intro classes that explain these difficult,but important topics, and the Catholic church and orthodox church have formal classes. Reading the bible is Great, it is the most important thing to have besides a saving relationship with Christ. but having someone mature who can help you and lead you is immensely helpful,it's why they're there. A lot of these things are difficult to understand, and reading the bible often leads to more questions before it answers them. Find a teacher (or a few) that you trust to help explain them,then see of they line up with scripture as you grow more acquainted with it.
Catechisms are also helpful. They cover the basics in a question and answer format. There are also lots of podcasts that talk about this stuff as well. Books, videos, everything. C.S. Lewis is famous for explaining faith well, mere christianity is a great start. I have found the bible project youtube channel to be particularly helpful when reading and trying to understand the bible. It gives outlines of the books and helps frame the confusing language in an understandable way. John piper has a podcast "ask pastor john", but these are from one very specific view on Christianity called Calvinism and are very specific. Keep that one in your back pocket for now. Hope that helps supplement the answers here and give you direction. I've definitely had the confusing times where I don't know where to begin,I hope this makes that a smaller period of time for you. Pm me as well if you want additional resources.
Bible Reading:
Most important thing when choosing a Bible: pick the one you'll read. It doesn't matter if you prefer it because of how the cover makes you feel, if that will make you read it, then that's fine.
Most issues with translations only kick in when you find passages that are hard to understand and you want a sense of what the original writer was saying. Then something like the NLT may be less useful, because it paraphrases more. The one thing I'd say is that I wouldn't recommend a full paraphrase version like The Message, because it has a lot of the writer's own interpretation. It has its value, but not for regular study.
If you want an easy to access but still good for Bible study translation, then the NIV is a widely used version. With your background in mind, howevr, the ESV might be usable for you. It's a widely respected translation that is considered good for serious study because it gets closer to the original language than the NIV, with some sacrifice for ease of reading. It's not something I'd necessarily recommend for someone new to Christianity, but given that you grew up in a Christian family, you might not find the vocabulary as daunting.
Regarding annotations: feel free to skip them. They are intended to aid understanding, but are not part of God's word. Therefore they are not essential reading, although if you want help understanding a passage they may be useful. If you find the length of the Bible challenging, you may want to consider a Bible reading plan - it will give you a structured approach that just makes it all feel a bit more manageable. If you want to manage the whole thing in a year (4 chapters a day), then try For The Love of God by Don Carson. If that's too much you could give one of these a try. One popular approach is to just alternate reading Old Testament and New Testament books (e.g. read through Matthew, then Genesis, then Mark, then Exodus etc), and then, because the New Testament is shorter, starting over while you go through the 2nd half of the Old Testament. That one's good because it doesn't matter how much you read each day to fit the plan. But reading plans are just a tool, if you want to just sit and read, that's also great, reading whole books in one go has its benefits even. Whatever works for you.
Other resources:
There are many, many Christian books available. But if you want a couple of easy recommendations try:
I would highly recommend that you pick up a book by CS Lewis called Mere Christianity. It pulls together the philisophical and also human experience of the author's thought process of evaluating his faith. Lewis was an agnostic and at one point atheist who slowly came to faith later in life as a professor at Oxford. While not catholic (Although most think he was close to swimming the Tiber), I think it's worth a read if you're investigating the christian faith in general. As far as why Catholic, I agree with all below on the Church being the original church that emerged from the Apostles, and that the beauty of the sacraments and repetitive unchanging nature of the catholic experience is edifying and grounding to my otherwise crazy life.
Mere Christianity by C.S Lewis is a good choice.
Not sure about how deep of a book you want.
Tim Keller: The Reason for God
https://www.amazon.com/Reason-God-Belief-Age-Skepticism/dp/1594483493
C.S. Lewis: Mere Christianity
https://www.amazon.com/Mere-Christianity-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652926/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1480613751&sr=1-1&keywords=mere+christianity+cs+lewis
I'm actually more interested in reading the Christian books, since I've read pretty much all of the popular atheist literature:
Orthodoxy
Mere Christianity
But of course there's good atheist literature too:
HPMOR and others that I'll think of and post later I suppose.
I'd be happy to suggest some titles. (And I hope my comment didn't seem to insinuate that I thought you had unrealistic expectations about a spiritual moment of awakening or anything. I don't think that at all.) I understand what you mean about feeling that God might be hiding from you if He exists given that you've made some sincere attempts to know Him via the Bible, church, etc.
John Polkinghorne might be a good author to check out. He's a physicist who writes a lot about science & theology. (I suggest him b/c some of your authors you listed lead me to believe you're very confident in science and not sure how religion still has a place or provides evidence for God? Maybe?) Here's a good book of his that could get you started.
Have you read any C.S. Lewis? I personally found his arguments to be fairly compelling, but understand he's not compelling for everyone. Mere Christianity is his best known work, but all of his stuff is pretty great.
In any case, I do hope that these suggestions are in some way helpful in how your journey of wrestling with God's potential existence.
Not to worry, there is a reasonable, rational foundation for the Christian faith! I strongly encourage you to check out the following resources:
Mere Christianity by CS Lewis
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0060652926?pc_redir=1408455123&robot_redir=1
7 Days that Divide the World by John Lennox
Video lecture version of book:
http://vimeo.com/m/60014422
Cold Case Christianity by J Warner Wallace
http://coldcasechristianity.com
There is also a free pdf of the entire book floating around online :)
They've made a huge difference for me in helping me keep my belief in the bible as the word of God despite coming to embrace scientific fact.
Be encouraged friend, God wants us to love him with our whole self: body, spirit, and MIND. The evidence is there!
It was only ten here.
The first time I heard of it was this piece of earnest and well intentioned nonsense which in turn has a lot of connections with T. Oilet's late poetry. Like the untranslated Heraclitis he put at the beginning of the Four Quartets.
Also, links in the other post? I typed those up for another eStranger. I should feel bad for trying to indoctrinate you, but I don't. And you listen to my suggestions sometimes.
The conservative viewpoint of the humanities tends to be focussed on the Western Canon and the great books curriculum or Classical education. A common conservatives opinion is that a classical liberal arts education is critically important and valuable, but that modern Academia mired in revisionist theories and nihilism and leaving students adrift in a sea of electives taught by radicals has lost the thread and are now largely useless at best and more often than not are actively destructive.
A few books about the humanities, philosophy, art & education by conservatives and/or approvingly cited by conservatives.
It's the same as when you taste a blueberry you know it's a blueberry or when you put chocolate in your mouth it's chocolate. No one eats chocolate and goes, 'My chemo-receptors are working adequately and I am sensing chocolate'! You're not Data from Star Trek, but what you're experiencing is the loss of your humanity. You gotta take a first step and if you can't start with a Christian book because maybe you've been hurt by some or can't stand hypocrisy. God knows I can't and knows I'm not there yet. Then start here, here (CS Lewis is a Christian and I gurantee you it'll speak to what you're going through) or here. Yet, you will never know how to awake with this philosophy. If you can't get out and someday come to the end of yourself then call on the name of Jesus. Your suffering must be very great to make reality as such so you can bare it. You must be very strong.
Edit: When you read let the book let it be the subject and you be the object. It's called formation reading. Let it become something that is speaking to you. This alone will help you start to move away from just subjective thought and action. Instead of the text being an object we control and manipulate according to our own insight and purposes, the text becomes the subject of the reading relationship; we are the object that is shaped by the text. Just make sure you're reading good stuff when you do this.. don't do this with like google news
This one here. It's a common analogy referenced, I think I first heard it in this interview
"Like the earlier paradigm [of Christianity], the emerging paradigm sees the Bible as sacred scripture, but not because it is a divine product. It is sacred in its status and function, but not in its origin. The point is not to believe in the Bible and the Christian tradition, but to live within them as a metaphor and sacrament of the sacred, as a means whereby the Spirit continues to speak to us today.
"The emerging paradigm sees the Christian life as a life of relationship and transformation. Being Christian is not about meeting requirements for a future reward in an afterlife, and not very much about believing. Rather, the Christian life is about a relationship with God that transforms life in the present. To be Christian does not mean believing in Christianity, but a relationship with God lived within the Christian tradition as a metaphor and sacrament of the sacred.
"The preview one more feature of the emerging paradigm: it affirms religious pluralism. In this paradigm Christianity is one of the world's great enduring religions, the response to the experience of God in our particular cultural stream."
—from The Heart of Christianity by Marcus Borg, DPhil from Oxford University, Biblical scholar, and Jesus Seminar Fellow
Not strictly speaking, as Humanism wouldn't normally involve Christian worship in a church community, Bible study, prayer, etc. Some have termed this "Christian Humanism," though the term is not widely used. This school of thought is over 100 years old, and in the 20th century it was championed by a number of influential theologians, the most well know being Paul Tillich.
If this idea intrigues you then I'd recommend checking out The Heart of Christianity by Dr. Marcus Borg. This is probably the most well written book on the subject to be published within the last decade and is easily accessible to ordinary readers. (non-theologians/philosophers)
http://www.amazon.com/Case-Creator-Journalist-Investigates-Scientific/dp/0310241448
Historical Eyewitness Testimony
And the lives of the saints ... how can you explain the holiness and self-sacrificial love of such men and women?
Because that's what it claims it is, and because it checks out. Check out Lee Strobel's book.
https://www.amazon.com/Case-Christ-Journalists-Personal-Investigation/dp/0310339308
Here ya go
http://www.amazon.com/Case-Christ-Journalists-Personal-Investigation/dp/0310339308
Pretty much all you need here. This guy who wrote the book was a very atheist lawyer, something like he was challenged by a colleague to find evidence that the bible is fake and God isn't real. He took that challenge, and instead found so much evidence of God that it converted him to Christianity. Here's what he found, and you might like that from what I remember it's wordy but un-biased, just evidence all laid out. Very genuine and very real. Enjoy :)
> The book consists primarily of interviews between Strobel (a former legal editor at the Chicago Tribune) and biblical scholars such as Bruce Metzger. Each interview is based on a simple question, concerning historical evidence (for example, "Can the Biographies of Jesus Be Trusted?"), scientific evidence, ("Does Archaeology Confirm or Contradict Jesus' Biographies?"), and "psychiatric evidence" ("Was Jesus Crazy When He Claimed to Be the Son of God?").
That's the description provided by Amazon.com on the page you linked.
http://www.amazon.com/Case-Christ-Journalists-Personal-Investigation/dp/0310339308
I'm pretty sure we're talking about the same book. Amazon.com's description matches mine. How many skeptics were interviewed in the book you read?
> all laid out and analyzed, Christian and non-Christian claims.
Analyzed by whom?
There isn’t one because the existence of unicorns isn’t something that can be proved using the scientific method. Not everything can.
I do fully understand the burden of proof. I believe it has been met for Christianity.
You seem to be a very angry person. You claim the evidence for religion is non-existence, yet you refuse to open your mind to the evidence or explain why many people who have studied it a lot more than you believe that the evidential burden is met.
I used to be like you. I was an atheist and couldn’t understand how so many people were stupid enough to believe in God. Then I actually read a book that laid out the historical evidence for the resurrection of Christ. I couldn’t refute it and it convinced me. I will provide you a link to the book. It is criticised because it claims to be an “independent journalistic investigation”, when clearly it is not independent as he only speaks to experts who are Christians, but I’m sure you can read it without this affecting you and you can always research the counter-arguments yourself. Be open minded and give it a go. If you not like this particular book, there are others out there.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Case-Christ-Journalists-Personal-Investigation/dp/0310339308/ref=dp_ob_title_bk
If you are not familiar with Lee Strobel's work, do yourself a favor and check them out. https://www.amazon.com/Case-Christ-Journalists-Personal-Investigation/dp/0310339308/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1467881074&sr=8-1&keywords=The+case+for+Christ
This one gives insight into the historic reliability of the Gospels. Strobel was an atheist himself and came to follow Christ after investigating Christianity.
I would recommend reading The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel, not because I'm trying to convert you but I do think there are a lot of good points brought up by a lot of Ivy League PhD scholars. The more knowledge the better, even if you still find it insufficient
For me it comes down to the cumulative case for Christianity. I can imagine you must feel very hapy, joyful and open-minded. I would recommend a couple books to you:
2)http://www.amazon.com/Mere-Christianity-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652926/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1381803860&sr=1-1&keywords=mere+christianity
I think when you are done, that you will see that even with all of the legitimate questions and curiosities that Christianity has, it still is the most logical worldview out there. Also, I would encourage you to find churches outside of the Catholic church as the Catholic church keeps people in bondage. Try and find a solid baptist church. There is no perfect church, but we can find the perfection of love and holiness in Christ.
Also, check out: http://answersforatheists.com/. This addresses many of the common questions and objections to Christianity from a very logical point of view.
Bruxy Cavey. The End of Religion.
That, my friend is an awful lot of questions :) Christianity is a big stream we all swim in. There is no one religion that contains all the truth of Christianity. Jesus is bigger than that. You mention that you're Catholic. That may be part of the problem. Not with Catholicism necessary but the fact you're allowing one sect of Christianity to try to answer all your questions about faith.
Here are some books to get you started:
Benefit of Doubt by Greg Boyd - Why it's good and even beneficial to doubt.
Love Wins by Rob Bell - a great way to look at Heaven and Hell.
It's better to live in the questions than the answers! Good luck!
I know. I know you didn't mean it like that. Or, at least, I'm trying to know that--but, you know, after years of bigots and the ignorant proclaiming that the QUILTBAG community is dragging everyone down a rainbow-bricked road to hell, where we're blamed for hurricanes, and 9/11, and Boston, and the like, it's hard not to see that first paragraph and be, well, a little bitter?
Before I came out to my mom, on separate occasions, she told me that two things were American problems that never happened in the old country: serial killings, and gays. Never mind the fact that she was wrong on both counts. Just comparing the two, and terming them both as problems?
I'm pretty sure my mom doesn't think my preference for the company of men is as bad as if, say, I started murdering people en mass in real life. I'm pretty sure she doesn't even really remember saying those things, given that they were at least a decade and a half ago.
But I remember.
I'm not saying this to discount your... evolution on this matter. I'm glad that there are more people coming around on this, understanding that the extent of our gay agenda is generally no different from anyone's normal day or their hopes and dreams. I just wish there weren't comparisons with more horrible things out there.
Anyway, I don't know if you're one of faith (I'm not), but there have been some interesting books of late trying to bridge Christianity, well-known for its hatred of the queer community (perhaps not completely intentionally), which I think might be of interest to you?
-Torn: Rescuing the Gospel from the Gays-vs.-Christians Debate by Justin Lee. I don't think his theology requires as much gymnastics as some other modern interpretations, but I find myself still not being able to really understand why he wants to hold so fast to it.
-The Cross in the Closet by Timothy Kurek. He's the one with the Indiegogo campaign from a while back, pretty much doing Black Like Me or Self-Made Man, only as a gay person. It has all the flavor of being a witness, which again, completely escapes my grasp, but.
-Does Jesus Really Love Me? by Jeff Chu. I think he's far, far too gentle on some of the more odious sects, and far, far, far too harsh on those that decided to leave the faith. But it's an interesting journey, nonetheless.
> You are making a huge assumption that the Bible is god's guide.
I am answering from within the parameters you gave me. You asked originally about JW's interpretation of Christianity. I think I am granted such assumption in the light of this fact.
> What about all those people who fervently believe the Koran or Old Testament (only) or the Upanishads or the Veda or any other holy book to be god's guide to man?
God will judge them, not me. My task is to spread His good news to them. If He deem them worthy of salvation, then they are worthy of salvation.
> Do you not pause and question what makes your holy book so special, what makes your holy book the true word of god? If other people believe in other holy books with as much you zeal as you do in yours, how can you tell your not falling into the same false belief as they are? How do you know you are following the true word of god and not some impostor?
I suggest Plantinga's book Warranted Christian Belief or C.S.Lewis' Mere Christianity.
My argument for it is fairly simple. The God worshipped by the Christians is the same God that was already being worshipped when Ur was the most important city in the world. The other gods came and went, but He remained.
> If you are truly following the word of god (bible) and Hindus aren't (in general), shouldn't you feel god more?
No, why should I?
> Shouldn't god give you some indication you are on the right path as oppose to how you would feel if you were Hindu?
O, but He does! Truth will set you free, and that is your signal.
> That is like giving your children a test and then rewarding everyone who answered the questions equally regardless if they got it right, and then punishing those who got it wrong (punishment depending on your belief on heaven/hell can simply be having it somehow worse off in the afterlife then another person).
The destiny of mankind is to stay on Earth. No one will be 'worse off' than anyone else.
> How are any of your children supposed to know what the right answers (any 'lifestyle/faith' that gets you the best possible afterlife) are if you give everyone equal encouragement throughout the learning process and test?
There is no best possible afterlife. There is a simple hope of eternal life here on Earth.
> If Hindus can/will obtain the same level of afterlife as members of your faith, then again I ask, why are you spreading your faith?
Why do you tell your friends when something good happens to you?
There is a book and movie version for A Case For Christ by Lee Strobel
https://www.amazon.com/Case-Christ-Journalists-Personal-Investigation/dp/0310339308
You, my friend, are in a position of great importance. Allow me to expound on my thoughts of life and where you are at:
There are the people that distract themselves with the trifles of everyday life and fail to ever realize the vanity of their existence. They refuse to think about the decisions they make, the purposes of their daily rituals, the reasons for their desires....but there are those that, due to a variety of possible reasons, do.
I was once in your position. I realized the meaninglessness of waking up everyday, repeating the mundane tasks that offer no meaning. I came to the conclusion (after much kicking and screaming) that the most logical answer to the question of meaning in life lies in God and His Son. Now, perhaps you have been turned off by past shitty experiences of church or christians (and if so, I assure you they are not what Christianity truly is about), but I must emphasize that the adventure of finding God is the greatest journey one can ever take. It gave me meaning and reason to live.
If you choose to partake down the wondrous path of faith, I present to you two good options for the start down the path (in order):
https://www.amazon.com/Mere-Christianity-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652926 Free online versions are available by googling
https://www.amazon.com/Who-Made-God-Answers-Questions/dp/0310247101
I end with this: It doesn't hurt to explore. Read the first book, and judge for yourself!
Feel free to PM for any questions, comments, etc.
Good book by Stroble, ‘The case for Christ ‘this helps