Best islamic law books according to redditors
We found 43 Reddit comments discussing the best islamic law books. We ranked the 18 resulting products by number of redditors who mentioned them. Here are the top 20.
We found 43 Reddit comments discussing the best islamic law books. We ranked the 18 resulting products by number of redditors who mentioned them. Here are the top 20.
> EURABIA
Gisèle Littman wrote Eurabia: The Euro-Arab Axis in 2005 and you can bring yourself to tears in the reviews
>First, Bat Ye'or is clearly an important historian. Her previous work explores the history of Islamic conquests and the fate of non-Muslims under Muslim rulers. It is valuable work -- as important as any good research on the history of Christian oppression of non-Christians or heretics. But in "Eurabia", Ye'or turns to the present and future. And she sees only more of the same: Muslims will continue seeking to conquer the world till all are subject to them. Not only that, Ye'or accuses that the jihadists have now turned Europe itself into their ally against Judeo-Christian civilization. As she explains, the jihadist "ideology, strategy, propaganda, and phraseology were conceived, formulated, and imposed on a reluctant European public opinion by a strong Arab and Western political and ideological alliance, including Third Worldists, Leftists, Communists and the Extreme Right". (p. 86)
>With a blizzard of facts and citations, Ye'or lays out her proofs of a new Euro-Arab Axis against Western values. Where many Muslims claim that a Jewish conspiracy controls America, Ye'or holds that Muslims now control Europe:
>"The strengthened EU framework has institutionalized a symbiotic Euro-Arab partnership preparing a Kafkaesque cultural and political totalitarianism, wherein Islamist jihadist values subvert the whole European conception of knowledge, human rights, and fundamental individual liberties." (p. 269)
>For Ye'or, all recent efforts toward "dialogue", "equality" or "justice" between Muslims and others have been a sham pretext for creeping cultural conquest by Muslims. The Westerners who promoted such accords have merely appeased insatiable aggressors. Since Muslims believe that only their religion comes from God, and all others serve Satan, it seems there is no realistic prospect for good relations with these people. Ye'or advocates a different approach:
>"The EU financing plan for 2003 included several projects in the West Bank, Gaza, and Arab countries which, like Syria, Egypt, and the Palestinian Authority, are breeding grounds of anti-Western Islamic fanaticism. Without Europe's financial aid and know-how, those countries would hardly be able to feed their own growing populations. Europe could easily compel them to abandon their racist culture, instead of vindicating it." (p. 202)
>In interpreting recent events, Ye'or moves beyond solid history into the realm of conspiracy theory. And she does this kind of writing very well. Her arguments are compelling. Her indictments of hate crimes by Muslims are damning. Her knowledge is vast and her memory is long. She does not forget a crime against her people. For Ye'or, it seems that the difficult path towards forgiveness and civil relations is closed.
-By Brian Griffith [TOP 1000 REVIEWER] on March 27 2005
"At least I'm not black" is what you white, bourgeois, socialist, racialist say all day long.
Let me put it like this: what's the difference between "White Privilege" and "White Supremacy"? Nothing. I couldn't fucking tell the difference between "White Privilege" as it was being described to us by left wing racialists, and the rhetoric that Bob Dylan was re-iterating made by pro-segregationists.
Look and see what I mean:
>A South politician preaches to the poor white man
>“You got more than the blacks, don’t complain.
>You’re better than them, you been born with white skin,” they explain.
>And the Negro’s name
>Is used it is plain
>For the politician’s gain
>As he rises to fame
>And the poor white remains
>On the caboose of the train
>But it ain’t him to blame
>He’s only a pawn in their game
"You've got more than the blacks, don't complain" is the same fucking line that we here today from the left. Maybe Dylan could modernize it by saying, "You've got more than the blacks, stay in your lane."
Here's another good one? What do you call, "Separate but equal?" ... Equality of outcome.
Social Justice, Racial Justice, it's been used by Nazis, Fascists, Theocrats, Islamsits, Communists, and every other scoundrel in history. You bastards never changed. The Democratic Plantations must be liberated.
>How can I, somebody who doesn't see it as authoritative, realize that it is actually true?
By reading it? I'm serious. I assume being Jewish you've read the Talmud/Torah or at least part of it? Read the Qur'an along with an accompanying tafseer/explanation and make up your mind.
People here can post long explanations and reasons, but you'll have take our word for it, that what we are saying about the Qur'an is true. By reading it yourself, you can see and know for yourself.
It's not too long, about the length of a fantasy novel these days. The Qur'an is best able to speak for itself and the religion I feel. I've heard very good things about this translation and commentary and coincidentally, I believe the translator was Jewish before converting to Islam.
You may not like my answer, but in the end it's up to you how you feel about this issue. First let me say that wikiislam is a propaganda islamophobic website. If I were to want information on Christianity, I would ask a Priest or a scholar of Christianity. So please don't read what you find on propaganda websites, some things are outright fabrications, others are taken out of context, others are misattributed etc. etc. So please don't read from those websites, but read from Muslim sources. If you are really sincere in what you say, you can do various things.
Read ''In the Footsteps of the Prophet'' by Dr. Tariq Ramadan, Professor of Contemporary Islamic Studies at Oxford University. He's a Muslim. He's well versed. He writes amazingly.
Read ''Muhammad: Man and Prophet'' by Adil Salahi. Book is somewhat expensive, but just read the top review by 'Mary' and I think that will tell you everything you need to know, haha. A biography on the life of the Prophet SAW! What more would you want!
You can always read the Qur'an - but that can be taken out of context. Muhammad Asad has a great translation of the Qur'an containing many footnotes describing the context of many verses. After all, in a book that was revealed over 23 years every verse has a context of its own.
The issue with all the above is that they cost money.
So in that case here is Dr. Yasir Qadhi's ongoing series about the life of the Prophet Muhammad SAW discussing many many things going on around his life from beginning to end. There are 98 videos and each has 1 hour.. And it's still going, so this can be really time consuming.
In the end I want to say: If you don't have the time to watch the series, or the money to buy and read the books (which are all sourced from Muslim scholars and even then the muslim scholars cite muslim scholars, the companions of the Prophet, and even the Prophet SAW himself) - then please hold your judgement on Muslims and do not let yourself be distracted by anti Islamic sources. To learn about vaccines, we learn from Doctors, not from anti-Vaccination supporters!
There are two ways of paying your Zakat:
1- FIRST APPROACH: for every stream of income that you have, on the day it goes above the Nisab, you start counting from that day and if that amount remains above the Nisab for one year, then you pay Zakat on it one year from that date.
This is very similar to the cash method of accounting.
Example: I made 500 dollars on Ramadan 1st 2018, if that stays above 300 (Nisab) until Ramadan 1st 2019, then I pay 2.5% of 500.
Example: I made 2000 on 15th of Shawwal 2018, and on Shawwal 15th 2019 I have 1200 left. I pay 2.5% of 1200.
Example: I made 3000 on 23 of Dhul-Hijjah 2018, and by 23rd of Dhul-Hijjah 2019 I only have 100 left, I don't pay zakat on that amount.
Pro: you're only paying zakat on what is immediately due. You're never pre-paying any amount.
Con: when you have multiple streams of income this message becomes extremely difficult. Additionally deducting expenses and paying debts becomes a challenge if you have more than one stream of income.
2- SECOND APPROACH: Regardless of how many streams of income you have, you simply choose one day out of the year on which you will pay your zakat. On that day you look at your balance and if it is greater than Nisab, you pay on the entire amount that is in your balance.
This is very similar to the accrual method of accounting.
Example: throughout the year I earn different amounts, 500 in Ramadan, then 2000 in Shawwal, then 3000 in Dhul-Hijjah. Over the year I take a loss of 1500 and Ive designated Ramadan 1st as the day I pay Zakat.
On Ramadan 1st I check my account and I have 4000 in my account (500+2000+3000-1500=4000) so I pay 2.5% of 4000. So on 1000 of the 4000, I am paying on time, and on the 3000 earned in Dhul-Hijjah I am pre-paying by 2 months.
Pro: I do not need to worry about calculating these a zakat year for each stream of income. I also have the convenience of prepaying amount so that I do not have to calculate them again later.
Con: if I need that 3000 in between the time that I pay and the time that it is due, then I may be using it prematurely. However the amount calculated for Zakat is negligible.
PREFFERED METHOD:
I advise all of my clients and students to follow the second method. Because while the cash method works for people that do not have steady streams of income, it can become complex and unruly, and many people will simply not tolerate the number of calculations they have to make for the multiple streams of income they have and instead just give up and not pay Zakat at all.
Therefore it is better to simply choose one day out of the year to calculate your zakat on. You will pay on the total amount in your account after expenses.
For more read my book:
Simple Zakat Guide: Understand and Calculate Your Zakat https://www.amazon.com/dp/0996519203/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_aCrdBb28H0NG4
Here.
Are.
Some.
Books.
Some.
More.
Books.
Would you like a link to my amazon wishlist to see all the books? There are a lot of non-Islamic stuff there to that you might like.
Ok, so this is something that I've been thinking about and researching as well. I have found Joe Bradford's blog as very valuable for researching this: http://www.joebradford.net He also has a book on Amazon that I've been thinking about picking up: https://www.amazon.com/Simple-Zakat-Guide-Understand-Calculate/dp/0996519203
There are a number of factors to consider here as Islamic scholars have debated this forever and there isn't a clear cut answer.
You need to figure out what rate and method is applicable stocks. There are two opinions: the first opinion is that 2.5% of the stock worth must be paid in zakat every (lunar) year. If you are targeting a withdrawal rate of 4%. The first year you retire you're going to be withdrawing 6.5% of your investments to pay for yourself and your zakat. However, keep in mind that subsequent years you will be increasing the percentage you withdraw to keep up with inflation, however, the 2.5% will remain the same.
The second opinion is that stocks are like produce, and in that case you are paying 10% on the return for that year. So assuming that your return on investment is 7% for that first year, you're going to be paying 0.7% on top of your initial withdrawal rate of 4% leading to 4.7% as your first withdrawal. These numbers will then be adjusted for subsequent years.
Joe Bradford takes the first opinion, and then provides additional guidance on retirement accounts. He argues that as you cannot freely remove money from traditional IRAs and 401ks no zakat is due on them until you are allowed to withdraw, in this case at 59 and 1/2 you must pay zakat on the net worth of those accounts, and then ever year after that. Other scholars take the opinion that you can withdraw from most retirement accounts, and that you have to pay zakat on them every year by paying zakat only on the maximum withdrawal amount, minus penalties and taxes that you would pay if you did withdraw.
Permit me to delve into the faith based and spiritual aspect of zakat and move away from the rational math based aspect of it. Those of you with little tolerance of that should probably skip the rest of this post.
<spiritual>
As you've mentioned, zakat is to "purify" your wealth but it's also a way of showing gratitude to God for allowing us to accumulate that wealth in the first place. It also helps us avoid being too attached to our wealth as greed and miserliness are sins (But generosity with others and frugalness with yourself is encouraged). We want to provide for our families and lead a good life, and that's totally compatible with Islam. We need to keep in mind that giving zakat isn't just to avoid hell, it's to do good in this world and recognize that we are rewarded for paying it, both now and in the afterlife. Finally, from a purely faith based perspective, you will never become poor by paying zakat. I'm not saying that by paying zakat you're going to magically beat the market, but I am saying that God will protect you from other potential financial calamities or even provide you with windfalls.
</spiritual>
tl;dr the 2.5% on stocks net worth is debated, and it could actually be 10% of ROI for that year.
our very own /u/joebradford has a simple zakat guide, that you can get for 10 bucks off amazon
here is his website where you can find other resources for zakat
you can also go to your local masjid, someone can assist you there.
in a lot of muslim communities, a lot of times we just go to a accountant, who also is certified in fiqh matters relating to finance and zakat, and they just help you through that.
if you cant figure it out, im sure we can get someone here to help you out.
There is no Jihad in Hinduism.
Islam has been a political weapon from the start.
Religion of Peace?: Islam's War Against the World, 1st Edition by G.M. Davis (Author)
https://www.amazon.com/Religion-Peace-Islams-Against-World/dp/097789844X/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=religion+of+peace+gregory+davis&qid=1558719230&s=books&sr=1-1
2 ebooks:
http://www.worldcat.org/title/voices-of-islam-in-southeast-asia-a-contemporary-sourcebook/oclc/70116439/editions
---
You're using the wrong author names for your search
Here is the book (no etext) at Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Voices-Islam-Southeast-Asia-Contemporary/dp/9812303685
review
http://i-epistemology.net/attachments/920_ajiss24-3-stripped%20-%20Book%20Reviews%20-%20Voices%20of%20Islam%20in%20Southeast%20Asia%20-%20A%20Contemporary%20Souce%20Book.pdf
Citation Styles for "Voices of Islam in Southeast Asia : a contemporary sourcebook"
APA (6th ed.)
Fealy, G., Hooker, V. M., & Institute of Southeast Asian Studies. (2006). Voices of Islam in Southeast Asia: A contemporary sourcebook. Singapore: Institute of Southeast Asian Studies.
Chicago (Author-Date, 15th ed.)
Fealy, Greg, and Virginia Matheson Hooker. 2006. Voices of Islam in Southeast Asia: a contemporary sourcebook. Singapore: Institute of Southeast Asian Studies.
Harvard (18th ed.)
FEALY, G., & HOOKER, V. M. (2006). Voices of Islam in Southeast Asia: a contemporary sourcebook. Singapore, Institute of Southeast Asian Studies.
MLA (7th ed.)
Fealy, Greg, and Virginia M. Hooker. Voices of Islam in Southeast Asia: A Contemporary Sourcebook. Singapore: Institute of Southeast Asian Studies, 2006. Print.
Turabian (6th ed.)
Fealy, Greg, and Virginia Matheson Hooker. Voices of Islam in Southeast Asia: A Contemporary Sourcebook. Singapore: Institute of Southeast Asian Studies, 2006.
Oh in that case you want one of these:
It's a translation plus a commentary. I really recommend Muhammad Asad (it's my favorite translation). If only he wrote it more beautifully, oh well. Link:
http://www.amazon.com/Message-Quran-Muhammad-Asad-ebook/dp/B0037KMWG0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1408758487&amp;sr=8-1&amp;keywords=muhammad+asad
Read the reviews,
Today's Ayat for Sunday, 2017-01-22 / 24 Rabi` al-thani 1438
People! It is you who stand in need of God, whereas He alone is free of all wants, worthy of all praise.
-- Fatir 35:15 as rendered by Sayyid Qutb
يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ أَنتُمُ الْفُقَرَاءُ إِلَى اللَّهِ وَاللَّهُ هُوَ الْغَنِيُّ الْحَمِيدُ
Listen http://www.islamawakened.com/quran/Audio/035015.mp3
Study http://www.islamawakened.com/quran/35/15/
Go deeper http://www.islamawakened.com/quran/35/15/w4wcv.html
(please share)
IslamAwakened is now available as an Android App
I respectfully disagree with two of your arguments.
First of all, your first sentence implies that following maddhabs is needed to follow Islam correctly. This takes the agency away from lay followers and puts far too much power in the hands of the mullahs, muftis and imams.
Second, "you have to follow some guidelines" makes Islam sound like a law rather than a way of life or a framework for ethics and religious practices. This is what causes such intense intrafaith conflict and slow change in governmental policy. All of a sudden, you're not debating interpretations, you're debating the law of God which is a lot more difficult to "change" once deemed "correct" by authorities. I'm not saying there is no correct way...I'm saying the discourse you utilize to discuss maddhabs needs to accept the fact that it is ultimately an interpretation. And ultimately, your own aql is needed foremost.
Finally, in my opinion, this is phenomenal book by the Sudanese professor Al-Naim on the topic: http://www.amazon.com/Toward-Islamic-Reformation-International-Contemporary/dp/0815627068
> Are there any highly respected leaders who have given similar interpretations?
Oh yes definitely. There was a Muslim scholar who made a 512 page Fatwa against terrorism and here's a huge list of many famous Muslim scholars who denounce it (interestingly, even Ayatollah Ali Khamanei denounces it too).
There's a book translated by Shaykh Joe Bradford (he recently did an AMA here). It is a primer in Hanbali fiqh titled "Al-Qaddumi's Elementary Hanbali Primer:100 Issues of Instruction according to the Hanbali school". I highly recommend purchasing it if you are follower of that school.
http://www.amazon.com/Qaddumis-Elementary-Hanbali-Primer-Instruction/dp/149236049X
Check these out.
https://www.amazon.com/Qaddumis-Elementary-Hanbali-Primer-Instruction/dp/149236049X?ie=UTF8&amp;ref_=asap_bc
https://www.amazon.com/Hanbali-Acts-Worship-Balbans-Synopsis/dp/1944904034/ref=sr_1_2/159-7497958-7831225?s=books&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1469405426&amp;sr=1-2&amp;refinements=p_27%3AMusa+Furber
It's still very much in print. It's available on Amazon in hardcover and as an ebook, as a PDF online (IDK if this is legit - I would buy the proper ebook). And if you live in the US of A, you can get a nice physical copy for about $10 from CAIR (edit: I think this is only if you're not Muslim).
https://www.amazon.com/Message-Quran-Muhammad-Asad-ebook/dp/B0037KMWG0
I'm not sure if this is heresy or something, but I found a Kindle edition. :D
https://www.amazon.com/Message-Quran-Muhammad-Asad-ebook/dp/B0037KMWG0
Thanks for the guidance!
edit:
Tons more formats, free download:
https://archive.org/details/TheMessageOfTheQuran_20140419/page/n1
OP, buy Joe Bradford's and Musa Furber's books.
Read through them and note down your questions.
Check to see if Sheikh Joe has already answered them on joebradford.net.
If not, send him an email with your question.
Check locally to see if any imams can teach you the madhab.
This is better than learning from only a book.
A quick Amazon search shows these two books [1] [2]. Warning: I didn't read them and I don't know if they're good books.
I'm no expert in this, but I don't think you can understand modern Islamism without understanding the thought of Sayyid Qutb, one of the intellectual founders of the movement (or movements, more like).
Not every Islamist group traces its roots to Qutb, but I would argue that he's certainly the most influential recent Islamist theorist. He died in the 1960's IIRC.
His main works are Social Justice in Islam and Milestones Along the Way. Social Justice was written earlier and before he fully developed his radicalism, and Milestones is full blown Islamism.
A good secondary source on Qutb is Adnan Musallam's From Secularism to Jihad: Sayyid Qutb and the Foundations of Modern Islamism.
A general book on the causes, frustrations, etc. that have led to the rise of Islamic extremism, see Michael Mazarr's Unmodern Men in the Modern World: Radical Islam, Terrorism, and the War on Modernity.
I would recommend beginning with Mazarr's book and then moving on to Musallam. After that, you can decide if it's worth your time to read some Qutb.
try https://smile.amazon.com/Message-Quran-Muhammad-Asad-ebook/dp/B0037KMWG0/ translation which is a rational interpretation and honestly I found it very well reasoned. The author is interesting as well https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Message_of_The_Qur%27an
If you can't afford a copy, i can buy and send one for u
Wasalaam,
Sorry to misinterpreting your original comments. If you don't mind, I'd like to offer my view. With regards to fiqh (jurisprudence), it too, is a science that is based upon tools and primary sources. The subject, referred to as Usul al-Fiqh, is very methodical - you can research more about how the marajah come up with their rulings by reading Lessons in Islamic Jurisprudence by the late Muhammad Baqir Sadr. As I'm sure you know, these scholars study for decades - up to 60 or 70 years depending on their ages. It is precisely due to the fact that it is a systematic, scientific process that 90% of the rulings of the marajah are the same.
In the end, it is our responsibility to try to determine the most knowledgeable to the best of our ability. The high-level students studying in Islamic seminaries are the most qualified to determine the differences as well as the degree of the logic, continuity, and argumentation put forward by the scholars. These scholars not only publish their rulings in their Tauzeeh al-Masail, but they publish, at length, the reasoning behind their rulings. These books can be volumes and volumes long. Unfortunately, very few, if any have been published in English.
I assure you, the Ahle-Khibra are not so superficial to rely on things like charisma or memory. In fact, there are Ahle-Khibra who work in say, Marja X's but who follow Marja Y. There are also Ahle-Khibra who have never met some of the Marajah candidates but still consider them A'laam. How? To determine their level of knowledge, they read their detailed published works and analyze their reasoning. For example, people use Sistani's masterpiece Minhaaj al-Saliheen and compare it to similar books published by other marajah.
Like you said, we should use our 'aql. The jahil way would be to follow a marja based on our very limited knowledge. We haven't studied sufficiently the topics of logic (mantiq), ilm ul-hadith, ilm-ul rajal, sarf, nawh, tafseer, etc. I, myself, have absolutely no qualifications to judge between whether or not, say, I can pray with cat hair on my clothing or not. Someone would have to put away the rule book, refer to the volomnious Usul books, and take a look at the logic behind the argument. Which hadith is used? Why did they use that hadith? Is the hadith sahih? Muawathaq? Dhaeef? Mutawattir? How did they balance it against other hadith? How did they interpret the hadith? Personally, I know I'm not nearly knowledgeable to get into this. This is why I'm going to ask the experts. I'm not going to ask my parents who they think the most knowlegeable is.
This is why we use the Ahle-Khibra since they're the qualified and least bias to make this determination. The most safe way, is to become a mujtahid oneself and to follow oneself, but this isn't practical for most of us.
While I know a lot of anthropologists working on this topic, they're all young scholars who don't have books out yet, and I don't know the field well enough to recommend the books that are out. What I can tell you is that John Bowen's work on Islam in France has been popular among public intellectuals there (see Why the French Don't Like Headscarves and Can Islam Be French?). His current research is on Sharia law in Britain and he's already got a book out on that too (On British Islam).
There is an English translation called The Qur'an: An Eternal Challenge. The Arabic pdf is probably available, but not the English.
Also see Shaykh ash-Sha'rawi's book: The Miracles of the Qur'an.
also
https://www.amazon.com/Sharia-Law-Non-Muslims-Taste-Islam/dp/0979579481/ref=pd_sim_14_3?_encoding=UTF8&amp;pd_rd_i=0979579481&amp;pd_rd_r=CAQJSP55YSBHF19DPJPM&amp;pd_rd_w=0iQjk&amp;pd_rd_wg=yy9uU&amp;psc=1&amp;refRID=CAQJSP55YSBHF19DPJPM
> demonstrably oppressive practices
That certainly didn't sound open at all. It actually sounded very close minded -- just saying.
Also, are you then saying someone who believes in Shariah law cannot be a liberal at all?
Lastly this Political Science Professor from Yale does not agree with you according the synopsis of his book presented on Amazon.
My bad on that part, I quickly replied. But I didnt even interpenetrated anything, Quran 5:33 does refers to people committing terrorism. REFERRING TO THE PEOPLE who wage war against the prophet.
But you want good commentary on Quran, please read Toward understanding the Quran
On social justice in Islam:
Sayyid Qutub wrote an entire book on social justice in Islam.
Here is an article on the topic by Dr. Muhammad Sharif Chaudhry of the University of Punjab.
This is an article on it from Dr. Ali Al-Halawani who studied at Al Azhar.
There are also tons of scholarly articles available online discussing it.
> Why don't you google it before you rant or at least look up Wikipedia
Why don't you just listen to one of Donald Trump's speeches before disagreeing with him? Why don't you just educate yourself?
The reason is that it is not my responsibility to express your belief system for you. What you are really saying is that no one is allowed to disagree with you. You seem to think that Googling "Social Justice" yields all the positive results of your cult but ignore little facts like this book: http://www.amazon.com/Social-Justice-Islam-Revised-Edition/dp/1889999113
Where a founder of the Muslim Brotherhood and a strong influence on Al Queda wrote a book about social justice.
Seems like you didn't Google it. But rather just have lofty ideals that you expect and demand anyone else to have.
> Justice is a really broad term.
It's odd that you would say this but then think that Social Justice is less broad. Justice itself is pretty simple, it's the application of the law doing the right thing. I'm going to go forward and say that the goals of "Social Justice" seem very good and very lofty but they have no means (law) of doing anything right. When Social Justice has become the law, it's openly totalitarian in it's application.
I'm so glad that you used such a great source as Wikipedia. It shows the level of intellect that follows social justice.
Let's compare and contrast your definition of Social Justice to the Khmer Rouge's implementation of it via their constitution:
Social Justice:
> tacit terms for the distribution of wealth
Khmer Rouge:
> opportunities for personal activity
Khmer Rouge:
> Instead of flaunting your ignorance by writing "where social justice gets it wrong",
NO, instead of flaunting YOUR IGNORANCE , maybe you should learn a little history about where your Social Justice Movement gets it wrong and has consistently gotten it wrong.