(Part 2) Top products from r/BPDlovedones

It's too easy to rate our suffering by our pain (but pain is subjective, even though it can be debilitating and IS REAL). In fact, measuring suffering by pain is a metric that 'makes sense,' what could be a better way? I don't know, but I know there is no luck in these things, good or bad. There are simply things we can't control and things we can, things we accept, can't or can- then make choices that we can't always predict the outcome of or even always see we are making.

I remember recently a really similar experience to your wife's apology. I've never heard one that mattered yet, but it was in a conversation where I outlined why what my wife intended in her statements and behavior due to emotional reasoning was as far as I can tell an attempt to elicit a reaction and 'hurt' in me. How it was abusive even though I wasn't hurt and didn't react, that I didn't care if she understands, I don't think she 'bad' for doing it, but I'm me and I find that something I can't and won't accept. It wasn't in a 'me verse her' way. I just waited until she was calm after doing my own thing with my dogs and son, then forced a conversation specifically on that later, wouldn't let her paint feelings or thoughts or intentions on me or change the subject. I criminalized that behavior MORE than I used to, but on a different level I used it as an experience to highlight how in words and actions I keep on and DO accept her for who she is, but it is in opposition to what she does. Then how her continuing that pattern is not enough to keep me here forever. I don't divorce threat and she has enough implied abandonment fear, it wasn't a threat or spoke threateningly, just from a place (I hope) of objective realness to what I feel and what I need and the unchanging truth of both.

That was the first time she on her own was like, huh, wow- yea that was abuse. I think she did say sorry (but they are pretty half-assed and really don't matter when they come so far). In the past she would say 'sorry you got angry' or 'sorry you got your feelings hurt' before telling me how sensitive I am or her behavior 'because of' me or mine or imaginary slights.

I guess my point is that if I think of myself as lucky or unlucky based on things I can't control or (maybe wrongly) accept, if I focus on the struggle rather than the coping, growth, and choices that lessen or end my suffering or avoid it in any ways I can.. like I think the goal is not to suppress our suffering or to (in hidden ways) use it as an excuse for our pain, but instead a realer acceptance of reality now and a chance to get stronger in a way. To not do so, it is too easy to perpetuate the martyrdom that led and locked me here in years past.

I need to take care myself whether I have the unluckiest wife or not. I need to improve my situation and my state and my self-care whether I chose my medical stuff I whine about or not (I didn't), whether my son has a lifetime health issue, whether or not all the things I have on my plate and whether I control them or not- I control me and I have a stronger role today and consequently in my future and fortunes than the luck of the last roll. We aren't static and we aren't weak in this way.

That story of the 'abuse' or apology was not actually what I meant by the only times I've received empathy. I don't really know for sure or care if my wife feels or shares 'real' empathy with me. It would be nice, but I'm not so sure I'd recognize it from where I was when hurt and resentful, even now I would doubt it, but it doesn't much matter what she feels to my life or identity. The times I experience what I think is greater empathy coincide exactly with the times I do NOT accept abuse, am not defensive (but instead protective), and am not allowing her to hurt me. If I couldn't get there in this marriage, I would have a real NEED to leave. If I ever lose whatever growth or changes are happening inside me that allow that, I will have a real need to leave. What I'm trying to say is that no one can empathize with someone that they don't 'see' as a person, as an individual, or as 'themselves'. They can't empathize unless they know 'who' you are and then accept you as yourself on some level. So to me, the times that I am unwaverable in my identity, in who I am, and in my unwillingness to be anyone I'm not or pushed or pulled, to me I've experienced greater empathy from my wife in those times (I believe). Like an understanding that I have feelings and that my feelings matter- because they do- because I do my best to honor them now and be 'me' regardless anything she can say or do. For now, no matter what she storms, rages, tantrums, or threatens I will budge a single inch from that place- and she can't make me.

I think it might bring her a modicum of security in the process and that is a valuable thing to a pwBPD. I don't do it for her though, it never worked when I tried. I like myself too much to return to the place I lived so many years. She's welcome to join me, my hand is out to help her up, but I can't hold my arm out forever and I think she is FINALLY starting to realize this. She may never, mind you, I can't control that and I feel like I will be okay independent the outcomes I can't control.

I think you will too.


EDIT:
This is a really cool quote I feel relates better to what I was trying to say than I could from a book about a guy that succeeded over adversaries. In this part he is talking about what he could do to overcome and grow through the things that he couldn't control- fair or not removed from the equation.
He called this chapter 'The Soft Zone' it's only an excerpt and everything in brackets was me trying to add bits to pull different areas in the chapter to a semblance of a point:

>Another way of envisioning the importance of the Soft Zone is through an ancient Indian parable that has been quite instructive in my life for many years: A man wants to walk across the land, but the earth is covered in thorns. He has two options--one is to pave his road, to tame ALL of nature into his compliance. The other is to make sandals. Making sandals is the internal solution. Like the Soft Zone, it does not base success on a submissive world or overpowering force, but on intelligent preparation and cultivated resilience. ..............The more I'd try to [cope mentioned earlier but omitted here and] block the distractions out the louder it would get in my head. [He felt alone in this problem, started being bothered by things he never noticed before] .....I realized that I could think to the beat of the song [his obstacles / distractions / things making him lose his focus and self] ..I couldn't count on the world to be silent [or caretake him], so my only option was to become at peace with the noise.

He had to accept some things in a newer deeper way. That doesn't mean he had to remain or remain the same, it doesn't mean you have to stay in your marriage or not. I'm not telling you you're doing anything wrong or earning your abuse. I'm saying make your own sandals and figure out where you feel like you want and need to walk. I guess I just really think we all always need to be looking into ourselves with honesty and come to know our strengths and weaknesses or flaws (we all have them!), do what we can for ourselves in inspection of our roles and any way we can grow no matter how much weight we feel (that's strength training right there!) The world won't create a painless path, antagonistic disordered wives certainly won't, they just add more bars for us until we remove them or get broader. IDK, his parable was better without my inputs, I just thought it was a really cool quote from the book 'The Art of Learning: An Inner Journey'

In my opinion, there is a certain element of giving up the idea that you can control what he will do. That's a big part of understanding boundaries (Part of the reason I recommend the book Boundaries - it has a religious viewpoint I wasn't expecting, but even if that isn't your thing the lessons are valuable).

The advice from /u/anjie_bee above is a good plan in general. The boring / barely responding method gives you a little bit of a slow fade that lessens the risk of him going on the attack. The next few times he messages you, don't respond immediately either. Give it 10-15 minutes, then out to half an hour, then an hour. Don't schedule any dates or meet with him in any way. Come up with boring excuses to get out of plans he wants to make.

The reality is if he's not getting the attention he wants from you, he will either lash out like the pictures threat, or move on to someone else. The Al-anon motto applies here: "I didn't cause it, I can't control it, I can't cure it."

The upside: his threats will likely be empty. Steps you can take if he does try something like the pictures - don't shy away from being honest about him and his actions. If by some small chance he does send those pictures to your work or someone you know, then be up front. "I dated this guy for a short period, and obviously I ignored some red flags early on. I ended it, and he responded by threatening me with those pictures. I appreciate your understanding, and I'm just moving forward."

Longer term, there are a few things that have helped me grow personally in this journey.

1. Taking care of yourself mentally and physically. A couple of years before ending the relationship, I started paying attention to nutrition and then later a dedicated exercise routine. This resulted in losing weight and generally feeling better inside and out.
   
2. Therapy, yay! Talking to a professional can really help you understand the thought processes that influence the choices you make. External perspective is very helpful too, my therapist asked the questions that made me understand how much energy, time, and emotion I was putting into changing someone else who had shown no signs of changing for years.
   
3. Meditation. Can't recommend this highly enough. I've gone the mindfulness route, without the spiritual aspect, and it has made a huge difference in my ability to remain calm in the face of stress, to be more aware of my body, mind, thoughts, and emotions.
   
   Final thought, one that I shared on here recently that struck a chord with me. Happiness is not a place, it is a compass. What will bring you happiness is each day making choices that bring you closer to your goals - what you truly want for yourself personally, in work, romantically.

This is a great question. One I've been asking myself as I've been getting back into the dating pool in the last 4 or 5 months since the trainwreck that was my 3.5 year relationship to my BPDex ended nearly a year ago. I've had a lot of same issues you pointed out in your post.

My therapist introduced me to attachment theory maybe a month or two ago and I find that it's useful model for me to understand myself as I'm going through the process.

Basically the reason why we're attracted and get attached to broken people is because we are broken. There is a wound we're trying to treat, typically from early childhood, and the way we're doing that is by trying to fix someone in hopes that it will be returned. And it never will be unless we do the fixing ourselves. In my case, my mother passed away very suddenly and tragically and very much right in front of me when I was 5 years old. That break with my primary caregiver was enough to cause a lot of other issues and for me to project that longing for unconditional love onto other people. When in reality I've been learning that I need to give that to myself.

I believe a lot of us here are "love addicts" or have anxious attachment styles. We attach, typically, to love avoidants. And I believe that though BPDs open up about their trauma quickly.. looking at how they open up emotionally.. well they really don't. They are awful about expressing their needs and instead throw tantrums. We, or at least I, kinda get a thrill when I get dig and open that somewhat reserved person up. (Quiet borderlines were my favorite). According to the theory we get a more secure attachment style when we 'ship up with secure or "boring" people.

The short of the long of it is that we have to do what you're doing like dating multiple people so we don't get too excited about one (usually that "omgomgomg" feeling within short time after meeting is the attachment style being activated and though it feels good, it's should be the warning signal). But instead of cycling through and moving on to the next person because we find them "boring" we have to allow ourselves to get to know these people. It's more of slow burn than an explosive firework feeling. And it's a very different way of dating than the style I'm used to. Apparently normal people don't rush right into a relationship. Who knew? ¯\(ツ)/¯

That's the gist. But you wanna know more there's a really good book called Attached that I recommend almost twice a day here on various reddit subs. And obviously this is something talk about with your therapist as your going through the process. Good luck my friend!

tldr: you're fucked up. get less fucked up.

when you jerk off, you feel better in the moment. It releases a bunch of dopamine into the brain - it is a way of numbing the pain away ... which means you don't need to deal with whatever emotional pain you are experiencing.

It is also addictive. Over time, if you allow it to become compulsive, you'll need more and more of it to stay regular. Go without, and you will experience something like withdrawl.

Go without long enough, and your body will self-regulate.

Put differently, the sex drive drives human achievement. Either pursuing sex, or, in the absence of that, persuing the sort of personal advancement that might lead to sex - success in business, in the gym, on the sporting field, etc.

Jerking off provides the satisfaction of having accomplish something without actually accompishing anything. It means you don't have to work for it, so you are unlikely to work.

In the long-run, sitting at home, watching netflix, eating cheetos, and jerking off makes you lonely and sad. It is as if the brain runs out of dopamine - as if it is a sponge you have squeezed dry.

If you are a regular-jerker, non-weight lifter, netflix watching cheetos lover, I recommend 31 days to masculinity:

https://www.amazon.com/31-Days-Masculinity-Guide-Authentic-ebook/dp/B071HZ5VBV

The books has some... non-politically correct ideas in it, but overall I found it incredibly helpful.

I hope that helps.

Another book I like is the mindful attraction plan by althol kay:

https://www.amazon.com/Mindful-Attraction-Plan-Practical-Creating/dp/149045151X

The book assumes you have a significant other that doesn't like you, but really, you don't need to be in that situation. The SEEECRIT of that book is that is about improving yourself.

Focus on improving yourself, on being a better person each day, and you won't have TIME to have anxiety.

somewhat serious.

Interesting. No, but I was a philosophy major so I’m familiar and yeah, they would be relevant. Acceptance of reality, while trying to make small and realistic changes, is the core of the whole thing.

We used Linehan’s workbook, below, which I highly recommend. She definitely used Buddhism and mixed it with CBT to develop this. It’s got a little bit of everything, and can help everyone, given they want to help themselves. Thanks for the book and links, they look great.

DBT® Skills Training Handouts and Worksheets, Second Edition https://www.amazon.com/dp/1572307811/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_7JKSDbC66H487

>Solitude is a wonderful thing, but each man has to find it on their own in their own terms.

This is a wonderful and powerful insight. Thanks for sharing it. I'll pick up the book!

>Going to a therapist and exploring the origins of your own childhood attachment trauma is very useful. Next to every borderline, there is a co-dependant willing to lay their life down. Behind every co-dependant, there are narcissistic parent(s) who has killed all self love in their child and convinced them that their worth is decided only by what they do for other people.

I've been thinking about this a lot, and I still wobble on whether the idea of co-dependency and childhood trauma caused by inept parents is a just-so story[1]. Freakin everything turns out to be heritable. The book Blueprint[2] is supposed to be a good summary of scientific consensus, but it isn't out yet. When I look at my parents and their siblings, I can clearly see how they've been suffering through the same problems I have their whole lives. It's very difficult to tell if they conditioned me to be the way I am, or if it's all genetic. It'd be amazing to see some twin studies on this specific phenomenon, but I haven't been able to find any.

I think without medication, the best I can hope for is to recognize the feelings and learn to cope with them. But I don't know if the notion of childhood trauma that I'm carrying around is a myth. Is this something I can "heal" such that the feelings themselves go away? Has anyone ever managed to heal this way? I'm seriously considering getting on SSRIs to see if I can eliminate the feelings themselves. I've been working on myself my whole life, and while this has propelled me very far in terms of self-awareness, all the same feelings I've always had are still there.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-so_story

[2] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0262039168/

I believe my stepdaughter (now 20) has bpd. She wasn't particularly bratty as a teen, but I think part of the reason for that was because I worked with seriously troubled teens and my stepkids knew not to tangle with me. You are right, being a brat is a normal part of being a teen. Couple this with an unstable birth mother, a stepparent, and the "I can just go to my other parent's house" and your stepdaughter probably has it much worse than others.

The behaviors that I noticed that led me to believe that my stepdaughter has bpd wasn't being a brat and talking back. Instead, this is what I saw. We started noticing these things when she was around 10 years old, but there is no telling when they each actually began.

1. She was unable to see/understand normal boundaries between people. At age 10 she described an elderly woman who lived next to her bus stop and sometimes said a few words to her in the morning as her best friend. And she had friends her own age, so it wasn't like she was desperately trying to have a friend. She literally did not understand that the woman was not her friend because of the age difference and the lack of really meaningful interactions. While this can be attributed to her being young, it was the first sign that she would have relationships that just didn't seem right. When she was in high school, there were at least two teachers that she was, in my opinion, too close too. Teachers should not be talking to students like friends - confiding things about their marriages and personal problems. She would also be too close to the parents of her friends. One parent even told my daughter that she had cancer before she told her own son.
   
2. Lying to maintain and control relationships. For me, this is the most painful one. As far as I can tell, my stepdaughter is constantly lying. Not the normal lying that people do to stay out of trouble - "No, I didn't eat your cookies." - but lying about who she is, what she believes and what she likes. She is *always* pretending to be the person that the person she is talking to wants her to be. She is always wearing a mask. If she says "good morning" to you, it is basically a lie because it is just part of her role. People with bpd don't really know who they are, they don't have a fixed identity. So, while this is *very* frustrating to me as a parent, I also try to have sympathy for my stepdaughter. When she was 10 my husband's uncle pulled my husband aside and told him that he didn't believe the lies that my stepdaughter was telling him. He wouldn't say what the lies were. When my husband and I confronted my stepdaughter, we didn't even get to the part where we mentioned the uncle's name. She immediately broke down and yelled, "I don't hate you guys!" This is when we found out that she was telling lies about us to everyone. As most women know, an easy way to make a friend is to trash talk someone else. My daughter was using these lies about us to get sympathy from others and to manipulate them. She's 20 now. I don't think she is lying about us right now, but that is because she wants to portray "perfect family" to others. As soon as she sees more benefit from telling people horrible lies about us, she will.
   
3. An inability to maintain relationships. I call this crush and crash. There are technical terms, but I don't remember them. She would find a new friend who was her best friend ever, or a group of friends. This friendship would involve a lot of pretending as she tried to keep up the role. She would also be trying to manipulate and control the other person. These friendships worked better on teens who were on the fringes - it really didn't work well with popular kids. As my mother-in-law says, "She's always picking up strays." People with difficult lives seem to be easier for her to control. More than relationships would end up crashing. It wasn't like she would just lose a friend or two. Instead, she would feel the need to run away from all the lies that she built up. Twice this resulted in her being homeschooled - once for a year, once for a semester. And twice it ended with her moving several states away to live with her birth mother. Now that she is 20, this is what I've seen. She started working at the factory where my husband works while she was pregnant. She was very popular, playing the young mother-to-be and perfect couple with her boyfriend who also got a job at the factory. She lost her job late in her pregnancy because she was sick too much and missed too many days. About 6 months after she had her baby, she went back to work at the factory. This time around a large group of her coworkers hated her - the very same group of people that loved her before. It has toned down now since it's been a year. But for a long time she was constantly complaining about how poorly the other women at work were treating her.
   
4. Paranoia. I don't think all people with bpd are paranoid, but some of them are. This is something that she tries to hide to an extent. I only have one detailed memory of an incident. My stepdaughter and my niece were staying at my mother's for a week during the summer. My mother took them and dropped them off at the local pool to spend the afternoon. My daughter called not too long afterwards and asked for them to be picked up. Apparently there was an older girl there (around 18?) who was giving my stepdaughter really mean looks, talking about her, making comments towards her... So, it isn't out of the realm of possibility that some random stranger was behaving this way, but chances are that this did not happen at all. It was all just my stepdaughter's paranoia. I don't remember any other specific incidents - but they are mostly similar to this, my stepdaughter interpreting someone's behavior in a very paranoid manner. I think that she may also hallucinate with her paranoia. I wasn't home at the time, but we used to live in a house with a large bush right next to the front porch. Apparently, my stepdaughter was sitting on the front porch and talking on the phone. She looked over and saw a man hiding in the bush next to the porch watching her. She ran inside and got my husband, but by the time he got out there the guy was gone. Now, it's possible that there was a guy there. But we were living in the country, so it isn't like we were in a neighborhood with lots of people. It would be pretty random for someone to be out there near our house. And our dog was on the porch with our daughter. The chances that our dog was there and didn't notice a stranger and start barking like crazy? Very slim.
   
   Being a brat as a teenager is normal. I hope that you read this stuff and say, "Wow, my stepdaughter is just a brat. This is great." Even with that...parenting a teen can be super hard. I worked with seriously troubled teens for 15 years, and I basically consider that I failed in parenting my stepchildren through their teens. Well, that is being really hard on myself. But my stepdaughter ended up on drugs, dropped out of school 3 months before graduation and got pregnant at 18 - she was living with her birth mother at the time, but still I raised her not to do those things. My stepson, 18, was grounded for the majority of his high school years. He has a genius IQ, but he is working at a factory now because his grades were too low to go to college. But...my stepdaughter is pretty stable now. She's got a new boyfriend who is a good person. She's pregnant again, but it's because an IUD failed, not because she was being irresponsible. She's kept her job for a year. She's uBPD, everything is likely to come crashing down eventually, but right now things are good for her. My stepson is doing very well at his job, we weren't sure that would happen, and he's saving for college.
   
   My point is that the teen years can be really hard, but if you parent well enough things will stabilize when they get past their teens. You just need to keep them alive, in school and out of trouble with the law. The things that you try to teach them now are going to bounce right off of them. I can't tell you how many times I have heard, "Mom told me." "Mom tried to tell me." "Mom warned me." All of those things I said didn't help much when they were in their teens, but they remember them now that they are older. When I worked with seriously troubled teens we would say that we were planting seeds. You teach teens things, they don't accept them, they don't use them...but when they are older they will remember and use what you taught them (hopefully).
   
   You may take at look at a book called The Parent's Handbook: Systematic Training for Effective Parenting it's the parenting method that was taught to parents when I worked with troubled teens. There is also a free parenting course on Coursera. It is mainly focused on younger children, but then at the end tells you how to tweak things for teens. You can take the course for free by auditing it, no need to pay, do quizzes or assignments. I'd also recommend skipping the recommended readings as they are not necessary.

Under a lot reflecting, I found I'm attracted to broken, confused girls from bad upbringings. If they emotional issues, I'm somehow attracted to it because I want to fix them, and this makes me feel safe and superior.

You might really like the book, [Are You The One For Me?] (https://www.amazon.com/Are-You-One-Me-Avoiding/dp/0440215757/ref=pd_sim_14_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=8NZ60CTD6F4K3A5QZTG0) where I got this all from. It belongs in the sidebar honestly it's that good. Scary good.

Mindfulness Meditation, is the most familiar form of meditation, which I mentioned in the original post. Here are some links to various mindfulness meditation recordings.

If you're new to mindfulness meditation, start with one like this, from the Secular Buddhist Association. If it's still too long for you at first, do not worry if you can't get through the whole thing. Try to work up to the whole 20 minutes over as many sessions as it takes.

The UCLA Mindfulness Awareness Research Center, has a set of downloads which include breathing meditations, along with some of the other meditations mentioned in this post. They also have a podcast available on iTunes University which can be streamed on the website, or downloaded via the link.

Though the recordings on his site are the only ones I've listed which are for sale, and not free, I thought some of you might be interested in Jon Kabat-Zinn. His book, Full Catastrophe Living, along with his other books, are perfect for anyone dealing with the emotional disregulation, either themselves or as a person who cares for someone with BPD. He's known for being the person who brought the concept of mindfulness to the west, and in a non-religious way. He offers 3 series of recordings, all available as CD's or MP3 downloads, along with many books, which are available for purchase. I have not heard these recordings myself, so I cannot vouch for them, but I hope to purchase one or more of them in the near future.

Yes, she was very self-aware. Also told me she could not hold onto the feeling that I loved her for very long. That she was like a well with a crack in it. Told me she was a runner. That she had fear of abandonment. Told me she could not find the person inside her that I needed. Let me know when she was about to dissociate. She also apologized multiple times for her 'fucked-up-ness'. I supported her in trying to divorce her family of origin.

I was repaid with betrayal and abuse on a massive scale. Such a mind fuck. This is part of the hook though, they are aware of their problems but can't do anything about it:

https://youtu.be/TNQQIRKLPHs

I think that is why many counselors and therapists hate working with them.

But if I look at her actions they tell me who she is.

She had been in a DBT program and I would imagine the research would have said she was in remission when I met her. She continued to improve during the 3 year friendship before the relationship.

I am working through this book now, it is really awesome IMO:

https://www.amazon.com/Becoming-Narcissists-Nightmare-Narcissist-Supplying/dp/1536668583

My kids are 5 and 8, but I know my son already doesn't want to hang out with his mom and has started to confide in me to protect him from her. I hope he can be as courageous in front of a judge if it can help him keep his mother away from him.

>Did you ever read Splitting?

No, but I am about to start reading "Will I ever be free of you?"

> All the lonely people, where do they all come from? - The BPDs in that equation are the architects of their own loneliness.

Chicken or the egg, are they trolls because they are lonely, or are they lonely because they are trolls? :P

There’s a book called The Mind Illuminated: A Complete Meditation Guide Integrating Buddhist Wisdom and Brain Science for Greater Mindfulness by neuroscientist John Yates (Culadasa) where he explains how to overcome every possible obstacle in meditation. Can highly recommend.

Your skill to be present in meditation affects your skill to be present in everyday life.

Oooh okay. It sounds like you have a concept of yourself as inherently bad. It's a byproduct of long-term abuse, especially with parents. I have similar issues, especially taking compliments. I once got a compliment and a family member said something in the vein of "well they don't know the real you." If you get enough of that message enforced, positive comments are going to be really uncomfortable.

I don't know how you can consider yourself inherently good, I certainly haven't, but maybe work towards thinking of yourself in a neutral way? I tend to carry reminders of the positive things I do (namely art) so that when I'm getting really hard on myself, I have a physical reminder to counter it.

In the meantime: therapy and/or reading Understanding The Borderline Mother will help you learn more about how to start healing from abusive relationships while you were developing.

So it's a book on Polyamorous relationships, but it deals a lot with communication and boundaries, it's called More than 2. Here an Amazon link

https://www.google.com/search?q=borderline+parent&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=borderline+parent&start=0

https://www.amazon.com/Surviving-Borderline-Parent-Boundaries-Self-Esteem/dp/1572243287

I recommend it (if it's legal in your state)

I record almost every interaction I have with mine. It has had a few benefits:

• Listening back, I can clearly hear where she changes the subject, misdirects, gaslights, brings up something else to distract me, etc. It really cuts through the FOG to hear it back.
  
• I also hear myself, and what I sound like when we are talking. I am defensive much more often than I realized.
  
• I also hear my kids more clearly bidding for my attention when my wife and I are arguing. That part was heartbreaking, but I'm glad I know to listen for it now.
  
• I've recorded lots of 'normal' argument conversations, but also some real doozy abusive yelling and accusations and crazy rages. If I ever had to protect myself in court or try to get full custody of my kids, I could use these recordings.
  
  Now on the other side of the coin:
  
  
• it's crazy to record someone, and you'll feel like a crazy person
  
• it takes a lot of time and effort to record everything and manage the files - labeling them, storing them, etc.
  
• there's a huge risk of her finding out and then her using this fact against me
  
• listening back to the recordings is generally a bad idea. it was useful at first, but now it's just sad. it transports me back to the feelings I have during the arguments, and it doesn't facilitate moving on.
  
  for logistics, I used iphone voice memo for quite a while and it was good. but if she grabbed my phone she'd see I was recording. so i got one of those USB flashdrive recorders (this one https://www.amazon.com/Voice-Recorder-Lectures-USB-Books/dp/B07CNQM73Z/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1549041941&sr=8-2-spons&keywords=db9+recorder&psc=1 )
  
  and it's great. I keep it in my bag or sweater pocket and flip it on when I anticipate needing to record. The sound quality is very much what you expect a microphone in your pocket to sound like, but if I stay very still it picks up the conversations pretty well.
  
  I've been doing this for only a few weeks and I think I have nearly 100 files to manage already. it's getting ridiculous, but in the end I am glad I have done this. Just for the purposes of cutting through the fog (seeing her manipulations) and for protecting myself in case i need to

I posted this on my own sub a couple of weeks ago.

I'm pretty sure she was BPD. The behavior Wendy Berry described in The Housekeeper's Diary was classic BPD: The rages, the splitting, the crying storms, the mood swings, etc.. She was a textbook case, IMO.

Charles came across as a bit clueless and self-absorbed, but not Cluster B. He'd try with Diana, she'd turn on him on a dime, and then he'd just withdraw even further... which I'm sure triggered her abandonment fears and led to even more extreme behavior.

It doesn't just get better, it actually gets really good if you do the work that this experience requires survivors to do. My tip, use this time of grief to learn everything about the nature of what you experienced, and the way your abusive upbringing primed you to be food for borderlines and cluster Bs. Often, your sense of what is "normal" and "familiar" depends a lot on what you subconsciously normalized while growing up, even if your functional parent, your dad, took over at a later stage. The fact that you were able to send your abusers to f*ck off means that you have fire in your belly, and you should not waste it.

For the repetition compulsion of childhood abuse, and how to stop it, I suggest you to read the book "Getting the love you want" by Hendrix:

https://www.amazon.com/Getting-Love-You-Want-Anniversary/dp/0805087001

Technically it is a guide for couples in crisis, but it contains enlightening infos on the chemistry that brings people together, and why it is so dangerous, if you come from a history of childhood abuse.

After 12 years of marriage, it just got progressively worse. I have tried to respond every different way under the sun. Talking her down for hours barely worked but left me exhausted. Letting her sit was worse. She didn't want resolution, she wanted blood. "Don't chase after me!" "Why didn't you chase after me, you dont care!" I have heard it all. It didnt matter, every fight ended in another mark against me to be remembered forever, and used as a pattern for future rages. It got to a point that 80-90% of the things on that list were fictitious.

So I read a book after she threatened to leave for the 12th time in 12 years. Stop taking care of the Borderline. It was my way of dealing with my isolation and depression. After a few months, I finally had had enough and let her know that her anger was no longer going to control me. I would be happy to discuss any topic calmly but I would not listen to another rage. This was too much for her and she wanted to live separate lives in the same house... Because I was already financially and emotionally responsible for the relationship and I was also the live in maid and cook. I put my foot down and said "no", either we are a couple or we are not... she said not, and then I said for the first time OK.

After a month, a few books, and a counselor, there is no way I would go back. I'm living on my spare bedroom while she is looking for a place but Im not looking over my shoulder or afraid if there is a female checkout person at the register any more. Im not asking myself every 5 minutes of every day if she is happy, or if I magically upset her again. I still have a divorce to go though, but I can see happiness in my life at the end of the tunnel.