(Part 2) Top products from r/Cameras

Get an intro-level DSLR from Nikon (D3200) or Canon (T3) and you'll be fine. The 18-55mm kit lenses are good; you can spend more money to get a longer zoom range, but 1) most people don't need it all and 2) they're bigger and heavier. The 18-55 is perfect for general use. Seriously, these intro cameras are fantastic and you'll love them for family shooting.

I'd also recommend you get one prime (fixed focal length, i.e. not a zoom) lens for low light. For Nikon, get the 35mm f/1.8, or Canon 35mm f/2. These are small, light lenses with a focal length that's perfect for general use. Best of all, they have much faster maximum apertures (they let more light in) for use in low-light conditions. You'll really appreciate this for indoor shooting. In fact, you could use these and completely forgo the kit zoom lens if you like, though most people like the zoom.

Most importantly, you'll need to know a little about how to use them. Just google "how to use dslr" and you'll see loads of articles on that. Modern cameras are great for 'set it and forget it' exposure, so you really don't even need to know how shutter speed, aperture, and ISO work (though it really helps if you do for some shooting). Just set the camera to "P" and go to town. It's probably more important to learn how to use the autofocus system. Namely, learn how to half-depress the shutter so the camera focuses, and then fully depress it to take the shot. If you do this, there will be no 'shutter lag' and you'll have great control over your shots. Most people know this from using a point-and-shoot, but not everyone.

If you're just getting into it, I would consider a camera body that costs $500 USD or less. My own personal recommendation is the Sony A6000. The body and kit lens is small and compact compared to a traditional DSLR like the Canon T6i and performs just as well. It also has the option of being able to mount vintage lenses on it due to it's smaller form factor and the lens mount being closer to the sensor. This means you can get good but cheap manual lenses from back in the day for often times $100 USD or less plus a $18 USD converter mount.

If you have any questions about this camera system (i own the A6000) or in general, please feel free to ask either through comments or pm me. Shameless plug (https://instagram.com/snappedbyandy for example photos)

Also. It sounds like you want to take a lot of landscapes, and for that you want a lens with a low focal length. Now, the kit lens that comes with cameras is nice and all, but if you want some real stunning pictures, you'll get a better quality prime wide-angle lens. "Prime" meaning the lens can't zoom and "wide-angle" meaning you have a wider field of view. Since it doesn't need to move, there's less glass needed, and the quality of the picture is better. Something that's 12mm to 20mm should do the trick. I'll link a personal recommendation below should you choose to go with the A6000.

Again, i want to emphasize to buy used if possible. Especially on lenses. You'll get severe discounts compared to buying something brand new. Typically people take good care of their lenses, and if you can meet the person before buying, a little legwork can save you a bundle of money.

Camera with kit lens (i recommend buying used/refurb locally if possible)

https://www.amazon.com/Sony-Mirrorless-Digitial-3-0-Inch-16-50mm/dp/B00I8BICB2/ref=sr_1_5?s=photo&ie=UTF8&qid=1539180473&sr=1-5&keywords=a6000&dpID=41AEqhgdLtL&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

Recommended wide angle lens for landscape with the A6000:

https://www.amazon.com/Rokinon-Ultra-Angle-Mount-RK12M/dp/B00JD4TAWI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1539180938&sr=8-1&keywords=rokinon+12+e+mount

an example of a good vintage lens:

https://www.amazon.com/Minolta-MD-50mm-Japan-Mount/dp/B008QFXYYU/ref=sr_1_16?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1539180558&sr=1-16&keywords=minolta+rokkor

an example of a converter to convert the mount of a vintage lens to the Sony E-mount

https://www.amazon.com/Fotasy-NEX-VG30-NEX-VG900-NEX-FS100-NEX-FS700/dp/B00E5T5BJW/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1539180630&sr=1-3&keywords=md+to+e+mount&dpID=41RFJ6J3P1L&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch


Guy with a dedicated blog to attaching vintage lenses to the Sony E mount system (he uses a Sony A7, which is more expensive, but the A6000 uses the same mount system, so it still all applies):

https://phillipreeve.net/blog/affordable-manual-lenses-for-the-sony-alpha-77r7ii7rii-and-7s/

The problem with that bundle you've linked to is that there' a lot of junk included. The 'lenses' it comes with are actually more like filters you screw onto the front of the 18-55mm lens that the camera comes with. These kinds of add-ons don't provide good quality at all. And the flash and tripod are also not worth speaking of...

Here's an equivalent bundle for the D3300:
http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-D3300-Professional-Accessory-International/dp/B018UO6KVU/ref=sr_1_6

So all that stuff for $75 on top of the D3300 and 18-55mm lens might not be the worst deal in the world (you need memory cards and a bag obviously) but I'd just skip it myself.

> I'm shopping around for a wide angle that won't force me to sell my first born

Firstly, the 18-55mm 'kit' lens goes pretty wide and is quite flexible for your family snaps too: http://lovethatshot.com/my-kit-lens-why-i-love-it/

Landscapes don't have to be shot with 'ultrawide' lenses but you will need to spend a bit of cash to get such a lens if you want one. This is why I say just get your technique sorted out with the kit lens before spending more. A lot of people also 'stitch' images together (in Photoshop) to recreate a wide-angle effect.

An advantage of Canon is that they offer a great value ultrawide lens for under $300: http://www.amazon.com/Canon-EF-S-10-18mm-4-5-5-6-Lens/dp/B00K899B9Y/ref=sr_1_1 - you could put than on a T6i/T5i/T4i/T3i etc. and that'd be pretty cool.

But the Nikon does have a superior sensor overall, and the best value ultrawide would be something like this from Sigma: http://www.amazon.com/Sigma-10-20mm-3-5-EX-Nikon/dp/B002D2VSD6/ref=sr_1_3 - so that's about $850 for the camera and two lenses

If you only want to bring one lens and you want something that is versatile, bright enough for most situation and very compact the Panasonic 20mm f1.7 is a common choice. It will allow you to take pictures in almost all situations, it has a good focal length that is neither too wide nor too narrow and it's extremely compact, though it has some flaws.

I used to own that lens and although I loved it's image quality, its focus speed and accuracy left something to be desired in low light situations. In decent light it focuses in an acceptable amount of time with good accuracy, but in low light it can take up to a second to focus.

If you want something with a more narrow viewing angle (50mm equiv) you have the option of Olympus 25mm f2.8 though you are sacrificing quite a bit of light compared to the Panasonic. Between the two most people go for the Panasonic 17mm f1.7.

But the question you're asking has no true answer, because it depends on what kind of pictures you want to take or what kind of focal lengths you prefer.

If you want zoom lenses Panasonic has quite a few ones with small sizes like their 12-32mm lens or their 14-42mm which has more range in terms of focal length and optical image stabilization (though I'm not sure if it would be better than the camera's image stabilization and you can only use either the lens' image stabilization or the camera body's with most all lenses on Olympus bodies with the exception of one, if I'm not mistaken).

Olympus also has a small 14-42 that is cheaper but doesn't have image stabilization, though again I'm not sure if you need any since your camera's stabilization is already pretty great.

I think those are pretty much the best small travel lenses.

Hope this helps but let me know if you need other options or want something more specific.

The 35mm will allow a lot more light to reach the sensor and will allow you to control what areas of the image are in or out of focus to a greater degree (shallow or deep depth of field). It will also probably be sharper, but you'll be giving up the ability to zoom. Personally I would recommend starting with a kit zoom (e.g., the 18-55mm) if you really don't know what you want because you'll probably end up paying very little for it as part of the kit and you might feel quite limited only having 35mm to play with.

Compare the prices here for example: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JQQPRGG/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_2?pf_rd_p=1944687442&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B007VGGFZU&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0BXJV7NQY74SR783980W

In my opinion it's well worth the extra $30 just to have the option.


That said, I would absolutely encourage you to consider also getting a fast prime like the 35mm f/1.8 if you can afford it. Not only is it better for the aforementioned reasons, it also might force you to think more creatively because of the inability to zoom.


As for the camera itself, I have a few pieces of advice:

1. Don't forget that mirrorless cameras are just as viable of an option as DSLRs (especially if you care more about portability than fast autofocus).
   
   
2. Always consider the lenses you might eventually want when you buy into a new system.
   
   
3. Don't feel like you need to buy the most recent model and don't be afraid to buy used or refurbished. The differences between the yearly iterations of entry/mid-level cameras are often negligible.
   
   
4. For DSLRs, look at Nikon, Canon, and Pentax.
   For mirrorless, look at Olympus, Sony, Fuji, and Panasonic.
   Canon and Nikon may be the most well known names in cameras, but their mirrorless options are pretty sub-par.

All manufacturers make a "budget" 50mm. Pentax is the best for my money, then Canon, but the Nikon one is DEFINITELY better than this, and it's not that much more expensive.

Definitely worth buying over this one - I promise. You're probably only looking at a 40 dollar difference.

https://www.amazon.com/Nikon-NIKKOR-50mm-1-8D-Cameras/dp/B00005LEN4/ref=sr_1_6?keywords=nikon+50mm&qid=1563824015&s=gateway&sr=8-6

If you want something a bit "time-proof" that won't become irrelevant and last you years right now I'd say the new Lumix GH5 that shoots 4k in camera, a good zoom lens for video, a Rode fuzzy mic, and spend the rest in extra batteries and the biggest, fastest SD cards you can find for cheap. Honestly right now I don't think you could find anything better in budget. You might look into the Sony A7sII but a good lens will run you more than it would for the lumix, battery life is worse. I'd check both setups locally and see what you like best and whatever leaves you some spare budget for the mic/batteries/SDs. And if you manage a cheap chinese LED video light might come in handy too. Hope this helps. :)

Thanks for the recommendations! You're probably pretty knowledgeable on my friend's setup, then. Would this be an appropriate 35mm lens? And would this be an appropriate 50mm?

Also, I would like to know what these lenses would be capable of that the 18-105mm would not be able to do. I would assume the zoom levels on the 18-105mm should cover those lower ranges as well. But, like I said, I'm a novice. So I'm assuming a lens that specializes in a range is better in its area than a "jack-of-all-trades" lens?

Two recommendations,

Canon S110 $210 amazon - Is best value bar none as it performs as good as the newer S120 that sells for 390$

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00CBYMWNQ/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?qid=1426533567&sr=8-2&keywords=canon+s110&pi=AC_SX200_QL40

Canon SX700 HS

http://www.amazon.com/Canon-PowerShot-SX700-Digital-Camera/dp/B00I58M26Y

Personally I'd go with the S110 as it has considerably sharper images due to the better and larger sensor and faster lense to allow shooting in low light and better depth of field (blurry backgrounds)

Good choice. I started out with a Nikon entry level camera and I think it was a good choice.

If you have funds, I'd recommend getting a bag and a spare battery (third-party batteries are usually fine). A second battery is always the first thing I get when I get a new camera; nothing is more frustrating than having to stop shooting because your only battery has died.

Once you get used to the 18-55 kit lens, you might want to pick up a 50mm prime lens http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-NIKKOR-50mm-Focus-Cameras/dp/B00005LEN4/. They're incredible cheap (<$80 on eBay) and the quality is very good. On the D3300 it will be a good lens for portraits.

And don't bother with one of those big accessory bundles, most of the stuff is complete crap. All you need is camera, lens, memory card, 2x battery (one spare) and a battery charger.You'll get all of that - apart form the second battery - in the box you've linked.

Good luck!

Well, there are a bunch of questions to go through before we can narrow it down, though the first and most important is: what is it that you want in a camera that your phone can't provide? Be as specific as you can.

Though if you just want the easy answer, the Panasonic G7 is probably the best all-around interchangeable-lens camera for video and stills below $500.

I would recommend a smaller mirror less camera, such as the nex 3n, and pick up a 30 mm lens like this one. This will allow you to take excellent photos without worrying too much about technical details. This system will also allow you to upgrade if you want to.

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-W800-Digital-Camera-Black/dp/B00I8BIBCW

best selling camera under $100 on amazon, you also need SD card.

Best Buy also price matches amazon now, so you could just go pick it up there.

I posted about a week ago, about the same question. I got a few good replies. The one I went with was this Olympus PEN E-PL1 I just got it yesterday, but I love it so far. It is compact, has an interchangeable lens, "Can grow with you" is what the person said. It is also cheap enough that you can either afford another lens or whatnot. It doesn't come with an SD card however, but those are about 20-30 bucks. I bought a travel case also. Total investment so far is 250.

It is much more powerful than a point and shoot, yet not overly complicated or large.

Just what I was looking for. I'd say minimally do some research on it!

Found this suggested in this subreddit:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0035LBRJO/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&condition=used


Additionally, I'm sorry to ask if this is only the kind of place where you only want to here from people who want 'the best' and have 3 grand to spend.

It sounds like you're looking for a quality entry level DSLR. There are many to choose from. Here are a few:

• Nikon D3300
  
  
• Nikon D5300
  
  
• Canon EOS 100D
  
  
• Canon Rebel T5
  
  
• Sony Alpha A58
  
  
• Pentax K-50
  
  As you can see there are a wide variety of quality cameras and this is just the tip of the iceberg. Any of the above would be excellent starters.

T5 and Nikon D3300 are both $400 new on Amazon, however the D3300 has substantially better image quality.

You would be very happy with a Sony RX-100 iii: https://www.amazon.com/Sony-DSC-RX100M-Cyber-shot-Digital-Camera/dp/B00K7O2DJU

If I'm correct (I'm a Canon guy), I believe the D3400 just came out recently, so that is why you haven't seen any sales.
On Amazon, the price of the D3400 with a kit lens is $500, which is a pretty decent sale from the $649 it came out with a few months ago.
As to whether to get the D3400 or the D5200, I wouldn't know as I am not very familiar with Nikon.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00X409PQS/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1498131514&sr=8-1-spons&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=lumix%2Bg7&psc=1&th=1

Just bought this camera myself but in a bundle with lenses because that's what I wanted. Watch some YouTube videos on Panasonic g7 reviews. Might help.

That’s interesting. That would mean that a cheap F to EF Adapter should work just fine.

u/mrgold1016

That's $350 refurbished, so $300 is a good deal.

https://www.amazon.com/Nikon-Digital-18-55mm-Certified-Refurbished/dp/B00JQQPRGG

https://smile.amazon.com/Canon-SX530-HS-9779B001-PowerShot/dp/B00RKNND2W/ref=sr_1_4?s=photo&ie=UTF8&qid=1499141029&sr=1-4&keywords=camera&refinements=p_36%3A1253507011


So something like this isn't better than a next year's iphone?

Thanks. Yep everything is from the A6000. Many of those are with the kit lenses, but the long exposures of the milkyway was done with this lense: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JD4TAWI/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Are you outside US? Amazon shows $2k https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MZ3LQQ5/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_rB5BzbEW3JH50

Edit: remove unnecessary Amazon description

I'm looking at this camera:

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B00I8BIBCW

Are you saying a device meant only to take pictures would give me worse quality results than my Duraforce phone which was not only designed for dual front & back cameras (cheap ones) but also a 1080p touchscreen, wifi, Bluetooth and GSM / HSPA / LTE communications, headphone jacks and a CPU capable of running 3d games?

Something like a used 35mm f/2 might work out well for you. The new version of the 35mm f/2 may be an option too, and it has image stabilization, but it's also pricier.

We've got a couple of the older version of these sony cameras at work, they're not bad at all as long as you have enough light and nothings moving around much, and they are definitely cheap

I don't know if this interests you or not but we have eye-fi SD cards in all of them so all the images automatically get stored on our server over wifi, makes things a bit simpler

Would this lens work with what you are explaining? https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00BQXL5CM/ref=pd_gwm_simh_0?pf_rd_p=1c5f02ae-183e-4906-990b-5a293310a66c&pf_rd_s=blackjack-personal-1&pf_rd_t=Gateway&pf_rd_i=mobile&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=KVN8EXRCGSFG7KT127QZ&pf_rd_r=KVN8EXRCGSFG7KT127QZ&pf_rd_p=1c5f02ae-183e-4906-990b-5a293310a66c
Im starting to get into all of this, so I've been doing a lot of reading and one of the articula I read recommended this lens as a cheaper version to the Sony of the same mm.

I didn't look around much but Amazon Warehouse Deals has one with the 18-55mm for $416: http://www.amazon.com/Pentax-Digital-Camera-18-55mm-f3-5-5-6/dp/B00DBPKAA6/ref=sr_1_1?m=A2L77EE7U53NWQ&s=merchant&ie=UTF8&qid=1421523179&sr=1-1&keywords=k-50

I also have a Nikkormat, and I can tell you that it uses a Nikon F Mount. All you have to do is get a simple mechanical adapter, since aperture and focus are manual. I have this Fotodiox one https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001G4QXLE and it works okay, it is not designed to be removed too often however.

Until you get up close to the cost of a DSLR... an iPhone or Samsung I'd about on par quality wise.

Canon SX530 HS 9779B001 PowerShot https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00RKNND2W/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_IpFjzb12BXN0B. Point and shoot that is better than an iPhone or Samsung phone

Little over 100 more and you get

Nikon D3300 24.2 MP CMOS Digital SLR with AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G VR II Zoom Lens, Certified Refurbished, Black https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LZWSJBS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_3qFjzb2WNXKFW. 100x better camera

Can't go wrong with a 50mm.

https://www.amazon.com/PANASONIC-Mirrorless-Camera-Megapixels-DC-GH5KBODY/dp/B01MZ3LQQ5/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?s=photo&ie=UTF8&qid=1542806343&sr=1-1-spons&keywords=lumix+gh5&psc=1

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1028546-REG/panasonic_dmc_gh4_yagh_lumix_yagh_interface_unit.html

Top link is the GH5 4k camera, bottom link is a massive interface unit that has dual XLR inputs, SDI and HDMI outputs, and mounts to rails.

It's not full frame (only M4/3) but you can pick this up brand new with lens of your choice for under $3000

*The YAGH unit says it's for GH4, but is compatible with GH5

But you can use a Nikon lens on a Canon.
http://www.amazon.com/Fotodiox-Mount-Adapter-Nikon-Camera/dp/B001G4QXLE/ref=sr_1_1/188-9403202-1447122?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1463888290&sr=1-1&keywords=nikon+f+to+ef+adapter

https://www.amazon.com/Sony-DSC-RX100M-Cyber-shot-Digital-Camera/dp/B00K7O2DJU

so this - https://www.amazon.com/Samyang-SY12M-Ultra-Angle-Cameras/dp/B00KT0UH72

and this - https://www.amazon.com/Rokinon-Ultra-Angle-Mount-RK12M/dp/B00JD4TAWI

same lens? The Samyang is $100 less....

Nikon D3400 with a 18-55 kit lens. Really decent for the very entry level photography https://www.amazon.com/Nikon-D3400-NIKKOR-18-55mm-3-5-5-6G/dp/B01KITZKDE

Non-mobile: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CBYMWNQ/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?qid=1426533567&sr=8-2&keywords=canon+s110&pi=AC_SX200_QL40

^That's ^why ^I'm ^here, ^I ^don't ^judge ^you. ^PM ^/u/xl0 ^if ^I'm ^causing ^any ^trouble. ^WUT?

I believe the k50 replaced the k30. Here's some links for ya if you're still looking:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/982523-REG/pentax_10883_k_50_digital_camera_body.html

http://www.adorama.com/IPXK50B1855A.html

http://www.adorama.com/IPXK50BKA.html

http://www.amazon.com/Pentax-K-30-lens-white-18-55WR/dp/B009W7X49Q/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1409842953&sr=8-3&keywords=pentax+k30

http://www.amazon.com/Pentax-K-30-Weather-Sealed-White-Body/dp/B0082OJ2YG/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1409842953&sr=8-2&keywords=pentax+k30

http://www.amazon.com/Pentax-Digital-Camera-18-55mm-f3-5-5-6/dp/B00DBPKAAG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1409842997&sr=8-1&keywords=pentax+k50

http://www.amazon.com/Pentax-K-50-Digital-Camera-3-Inch/dp/B00DBPKBK0/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1409842997&sr=8-11&keywords=pentax+k50

I would go for this guy, as I see Megluesta already posted:
http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-35mm-1-8G-Digital-Cameras/dp/B001S2PPT0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1375739970&sr=8-2

or if 50mm is more your length:
http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-50mm-NIKKOR-Digital-Cameras/dp/B004Y1AYAC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1375740078&sr=8-2

Or for a bit more speed and cash:
http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-Prime-Nikkor-Digital-Cameras/dp/B001GCVA0U/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1375740078&sr=8-5

https://www.amazon.com/Sony-Premium-Compact-F1-8-2-8-DSCRX100M3/dp/B00K7O2DJU

What about a bridge type camera? Has look and feel of a dslr but is point and shoot. Not expensive like dslr and is easier to use but has features if she does actually get into it more than you anticipate.

Just one example:

Canon PowerShot SX530 HS - Wi-Fi Enabled https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00RKNND2W/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awd_RWcBwb3RCH48N

You need a fast prime lens for selective focus and low light as well as a stepper-motor kit lens for videography and general work. A Sony a6000 with those lenses would not be easy to find anywhere near your budget. Otherwise a good choice. A good alternative would be the Nikon D3400 bundled with the AF-P kit lens (=silent focusing during video), which is on a fire sale now for $400, and then shop for a used Nikon 35mm f1.8G DX prime lens when you have a bit more cash ($150 or less). That combo would give you both 1080/60 and great low-light performance. Pass on Canons. The Canon T5i on up would be better for video (better focusing tech), but any Canon in your price range will be a much worse performer in low light. The Sony sensors in the Nikons are simply much better.

As a M43 user I have to jump in and recommend the Olympus EPL7. It has 3 axis IBIS so taking pictures sub 100 shutter without a tripod is very doable. Its touchscreen enables you to change focus points as well as take a picture with a touch of a finger. Both those things just make usability so much easier.

You also said that portability is important. With a M43 kit, you will have a kit that is 40%-50% smaller than an APSC kit (even vs a Sony mirrorless). The thing with APSC mirrorless is that cameras are smaller, but lenses still have to be near the same size as your standard Canon or Nikon lenses. A m43 kit being so small, also means that there is no excuse not to bring the camera everywhere you go. For most people, they only bring their camera when they plan to shoot since the bulk makes it inconvenient.

The M43 system has one of the widest variety and fleshed out lens ecosystem out there. With 2 main companies invested, and many third parties also joining in, there are just so many lens options. I would pair this camera with a Panny 25mm that is on a nasty price drop at the moment. Cool thing with M43 is that you don't have to worry about shooting wide open, since the sensor is small enough to make most lenses sharp, even when open all the way. For ultimate portability you could go the Panny 20mm. This would make the EPL7 practically a pocket camera with super sharp images. I wouldn't recommend getting the 20mm new though as it is usually widely available on the used market at a lower price.

There is also /r/M43 if you want to check out more.