(Part 2) Top products from r/ChineseLanguage

At the beginning of 2016 I tested into a 202 class at my university after doing self study for a year on and off. I think it may be possible for you after two or three months, but a lot is going to hang on the leniency of the professor and your own ability to study extremely hard for the entire time. You'll also definitely be playing catch-up for at least a semester compared to the other students.

My test was a very short oral examination where the professor asked me questions about myself, my family, where I was from, and my apartment. I remember not understanding her when she asked "is your apartment far from campus?" Then I read some dialogues aloud from the textbook to test character recognition. She could tell I was motivated and did know some Chinese, so she allowed me to join the next quarter.

When I got into the class:

• My pronunciation was about average compared to other students. I minored in linguistics and am fairly obsessive about pronunciation, so it continued to improve while other students didn't pay as much attention to it over the course of the year. We all had pretty halting speech and couldn't come up with long sentences without pausing to think.
  
  
• My character recognition was abysmal and my reading was incredibly slow. This was the single worst part of my ability and it put me way behind when we had to take tests or quizzes. I worked on it constantly from day one of the class and haven't stopped since.
  
  
• Although I lacked lots of vocabulary, I never had any trouble understanding the professor. I wrote down in pinyin what she'd said and then asked a classmate to help me.
  
  
• My method of studying gave me an intuitive understanding of sentence structure that put me exactly on par with all the other students. The professor introduced new grammar throughout the year and I picked it up as fast as the others did.
  
  I know now that the way I self-studied was riddled with inconsistencies and my level could have been achieved much faster. So here's what I suggest you do:
  
  
• Learn correct pronunciation. It's worth it to learn about linguistics for this, because it will improve your pronunciation in all your languages. Learn pinyin backward and forward, including all its tricky parts that don't line up with English. Don't settle for anything that says "q is like ch in cheese" - Mandarin is NOT English and very few of the sounds are the same. Learn how all the sounds are made from Wikipedia articles, and practice like crazy to get your brain and tongue comfortable with all the new sounds. This is a phenomenal investment because good pronunciation tricks people into thinking you're better than you are. And even if you don't make it in AP Chinese, you'll still be way ahead of people who don't practice it.
  
  
• Quickly memorize a core base of nouns and verbs. I used this Memrise course. Aim for being familiar with all of these verbs plus the HSK 1 and 2 vocabulary lists in two weeks.
  
  
• Download Anki and use it religiously. If you don't know about spaced repetition, now is the time to learn. If you download pre-made decks, make sure to get them with audio so you're constantly hearing native Chinese.
  
  
• Learn full sentences. This is the key to internalizing Chinese grammar. Learn full sentences. Steal them from phrasebooks, practice aloud after the audio, and be ready to parrot dozens of set phrases at a moment's notice. Don't try making your own sentences until you've internalized hundreds or thousands of correct sentences from native sources. The Chinese Grammar Wiki is an amazing place for example sentences, and you can also find them on LineDict. Clozemaster is yet another tool for this. Check your local library for Mandarin courses and copy out the textbook dialogues. You want to saturate yourself with Chinese in context, not just vocab lists.
  
  
• If you want to spend a little money, you open up a whole new world of learning options. FluentU and Yabla make subtitled videos of native content. The Kauderwelsch phrasebooks (good thing you speak German) have word-for-word glosses and a good explanation of Chinese grammar. This book is a great introduction to grammar patterns too. Glossika is a course that will definitely kick your butt and give you amazing results if you stick with their suggested methods.
  
  
• Always be listening to Mandarin in some way. There are hundreds of thousands of Youtube videos and podcasts about any imaginable subject. Have them on in the background while you look for resources, make flashcards, or do anything else really. You've got to let the rhythm of the language soak into your ears.
  
  
• The characters will take a very long time to be familiar with, and they could be the biggest obstacle to your entry in the class. Do some research on the history of the characters and how they work, and then just always practice reading and writing them over and over. Copy out the example sentences from the resources you find, and surround yourself with Chinese text to read. It will take a long time before you're comfortable reading passages of text, but the more you try the easier it gets. It's hard for all the AP students too.
  
  
• A few weeks before you start school, or once it feels like the language is starting to come together in your mind, go on HelloTalk or SharedLingo (or both) and find some native speakers to practice with. Practice your pronunciation and your tones with them, and try having some short conversations too.

>I was thinking of making an Anki deck with grammar points and practicing making sentences from that, but

At the bottom of this message is a copy/paste from a prior post. It's general advice, perhaps you'll find it helpful. In regards to your specific question:

• I agree, reviewing dozens grammar patterns in Anki will quickly get boring.
  
• The most important grammar patterns are are those you see/hear/read every day. It's more useful to learn those patterns really well rather than developing a broad but shallow understanding ones you'll rarely hear or use. (Note: as a student you may have to review more patterns than helpful because you will be tested on them).
  
• Building on the prior point, the patterns you review should be sourced from the media you consume and the conversations you have.
  
  One thing you can try is keeping a journal. It's a great way to reinforce grammar and it's more holistic than writing practice sentences in isolation. You don't need to write much nor be especially creative. Each day pick one pattern and build a short paragraph around it. Spend no more than 10-15 minutes doing this. The following day, before you write, take a moment to review the prior day(s) writings/patterns. If possible, share your journal with a native speaking friend and ask them to provide feedback using the shared document's "comments" function. (Keep the comments as a record and do not "resolve" them). Do not edit your original text; you want to keep it as a record as well. (Any edits your partner wants to make can be added in-line as new text (in a different color), or in a separate paragraph. I find it easier to make quick comparisons with this method than using a red line/mark up function).
  
  Finally, here is a list of grammar resources that might help you:
  
  Appropriate for Beginning Learners
  
  
• [Allset Learning Grammar Wiki] (https://resources.allsetlearning.com/chinese/grammar/Main_Page)
  
• Modern Mandarin Chinese Grammar: A Practical Guide
  
• Basic Patterns of Chinese Grammar
  
• Schuam's Outlines of Chinese Grammar
  
  Appropriate for Intermediate or Advanced Learners
  
  
• An A to Z Grammar for Chinese Language Learners, (traditional only) ISBN 9789570851069
  
• Common Chinese Patterns 330
  
• A Guide to Proper Usage of Spoken Chinese
  
• Error Analysis of 900 Sample Sentences
  
• A Learn's Handbook of Modern Chinese Written Expressions
  
  --------------
  
  Repetition is the key to success, specifically: 1) high volume, 2) varied, 3) contextual, 4) mutual reinforcing, 5) enjoyable.
  
  
• Varied: learning/using grammar and vocabulary through different topics and mediums
  
• Contextual: not learning vocabulary/grammar in isolation
  
• Mutual reinforcing: learning activities that reinforce and/or build upon each other
  
• Enjoyable: liking the topic and methods through which you are learning it
  
  

> Thank you for your advice, I appreciate it a lot.

You're welcome, hope these suggestions turn out to be of some use. :)

> I may start with Terry Waltz books to then continue with the Chinese Breeze series.

This sounds like a good approach!

I've always felt that, from a language acquisition perspective, among all the books designed for language learners, these two sets of books are especially well-designed (supplying lots of comprehensible input), while also being lots of fun to read.

The two conditions of comprehensibility, and fun-to-read are especially hard to satisfy at the same time. As you may have noticed, there are many books out there that are comprehensible and boring, and many books that are interesting yet incomprehensible to beginning learners. It's hard to find books that are both interesting and comprehensible.

I wish I had known about these books when I first set out to learn Chinese!

If you run out of things to read, I also recommend taking a look at this one:

The Lady in the Painting

Difficulty-wise, I'd say it was around the same level as some of the 300-500 word Chinese Breeze readers, while using a more literary style of Chinese (it was written a number of years ago).

Sometimes you will get relatively easy reading passages, but sometimes you'll get one about something like whales that is really difficult to prepare for. I honestly can't talk about why whales breach for air and I don't think I even remember how to say "whale", but you can always use context clues to figure out what the general idea of the text is. That's why doing practice exams can be really helpful too - you can get pretty good at scanning difficult text for clues.

I forgot to mention it earlier, but the school that signed me up for the HSK recommended A Practical Chinese Grammar for Foreigners (includes workbook) for preparing for the grammar portion of the test. The book is really well-organized, I love it.

The HSK doesn't seem to have much practical use beyond HSK5, which I think is the requirement for entering a Chinese university, so I don't have any current plans to take the HSK6. I might also be avoiding the long writing sections in the HSK6... :x

I can't stress enough how great Chinese Demystified is! And basically the whole Demystiffied series is great. I found this to be one of the absolute best Chinese grammar books! I highly recommend it! Also try Basic Written Chinese which is a textbook, plus there is a workbook, which may or may not be needed, I'm not sure. There is also Basic Spoken Chinese as well which is the same.

Vigernere1 gave you some pretty solid advice. It sounds like you are focusing on reading more than speaking, correct?

I have studied for a few years, and I am probably around 2000 characters. I bounced around with a few textbooks, but if I were to start over, I'd use New Practical Chinese Reader books 1-4. The videos from the lessons are on youtube as well. Then move to All Things Considered (put out by Princeton). I have 4 of the books from their series. They are all good, but All Things Considered is fabulous. They have a few books that are higher level than that as well. It also has simplified and traditional characters.

Buy Pleco if you haven't already and make flashcards. Do quizzes and quiz yourself to you go blind and you should be good to go.

[New Practical Chinese Reader] (https://www.amazon.com/Practical-Chinese-Reader-Vol-2nd-Ed/dp/7561926235/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1501086151&sr=8-1&keywords=new+practical+chinese+reader)

[All Things Considered] (https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=all+things+considered)

I came from a beginner/intermediate level of Japanese fluency to Mandarin a year and a half ago. I have been using the New Practical Chinese Reader series (here) and have been very pleased with it. I think it will work well for you because 1) the vocabulary seems pretty accelerated to me and 2) there is a good amount of audio content with the texts. Hope that helps.

Well, it's complicated. First off, it's important to recognize that Chinese doesn't have tense. It has aspect.

Think about it: if you ask me what I did yesterday, what I'm doing now, or what I am going to do tomorrow, you will ordinarily use the same verb (做), without any modification to it. By the same token, regardless of which question you ask, I can ordinarily respond in the same manner -- e.g., 我看电影.

Of course, sometimes it is important to express when an action took place. In Chinese, you can usually do this by adding some clarifying language (e.g., 昨天, 下个星期, 去年). I often say that Chinese is a highly efficient language. Since time can be expressed (and deduced) contextually, there is no need to modify the verb form.

Additionally, there are the aspect particles: 过, 着, and 了. It's important to recognize that none of these particles expresses tense, not even 了.

Chinese-language learners often mistake 了 as an all-purpose past tense marker. Unfortunately, it's not that simple. The aspect particle 了 can express completion, which is distinct from tense.

Consider the following example: 我们明天看了电影以后，就吃饭. In that sentence, 了 demonstrates completion, but it is referring to action that will not take place until tomorrow. In other words, it's not past tense.

This is a complicated concept, and one that I definitely cannot do justice to in a reddit comment. If you really want to understand it, I would suggest the Li and Thompson grammar book, which devotes about 50 pages to 了 as an aspect particle.

One more important thing to note is that you usually cannot use 了 in the following pattern: Subject + Verb + 了 (+ Object). So you typically wouldn't say, for example, 我吃了饭. The aspect particle 了 is usually only appropriate when you are specifying a certain number or degree of the Object. And so, therefore, 我吃了三碗饭 would be OK.

(The exception, of course, is in the "once . . . then" structure I reference above: Verb 了以后, 就 . . . .)

Sorry if this is really convoluted. Spend some time on the Chinese Grammar Wiki or reading Li and Thompson's book, and really pay attention to how native speakers express time and aspect.

EDIT: Typos.

Not pinyin, but an interesting and readable series is China Breeze. http://www.amazon.com/Chinese-Breeze-Wrong-wrong-Edition-ebook/dp/B007UXC81O

You can read it after having learned just 300 characters. Or learn them as you go. The 300 characters get reused over and over, so it is easier to remember them.

> I do a lot of business with Chinese companies

Simplified (if you mean companies in Mainland China / PRC)

> Guangzhou

Simplified

> studying the basics

Simplified

> eventually taking the HSK

Simplified

> Which one is most widely used in society?

Simplified

See, I have made it simple for you! ;-)

But seriously, the overwhelming majority of Chinese people use Simplified, and because of that even people who use Traditional will be able to read Simplified. Unless you have an almost exclusive focus on Hong Kong, Taiwan and expat communities in the West, it is much more useful to study Simplified.

By the way, I recommend Matthews & Matthews' Learning Chinese Characters. It is based on the famous Heisig method, but adds memorization hints for pronunciation.

Also read this: http://www.thechinaexpat.com/mistakes-when-learning-chinese/

Good luck!

See if you can track down the tapes made for the original Practical Chinese Reader. This series was made in the late 70s/early 80s, and though the vocab can be a bit dated sometimes (you learn to discuss the Four Modernizations before you learn to ask directions, and you're told to address the waitress as "comrade"), in terms of fundamentals, it's one of the best textbooks out there. The tapes were very professionally done as well, made at a higher quality than even a lot of the TV and radio programming you see in China today.

Those were the days...

I agree in that this feels like an article describing how this one person keeps it straight in his head rather than an actual study of grammar.

In terms of when to use 了, The book Mandarin Chinese: A Functional Reference Grammar, there are two uses of the particle 了. One is the perfective aspect marker, used to show "that an event is being viewed in its entirety or as a whole." Something like "我喝了三杯啤酒" (I've drunk three beers). The other being currently relevant state, something like "我餓了" (I'm hungry, implies you weren't before). As for #3, I feel that falls into the currently relevant state category.

As for his fourth point, 了 when pronounced liao3 is a verb (unrelated to the particle le) meaning to complete or to finish, so I feel he is completely off base on this point.

Monder Mandarin Chinese Grammar is a great book. I used it as a reference while I was studying in China. A Practical Chinese Grammar is also an invaluable resource that's well worth looking at.

A more philosophical discussion of the Chinese language can be found in Alan Watts "Tao: The Watercourse Way" link, particularly Chapter 1 on the Chinese Written Language. You should proceed with caution, though. Having read DeFrancis, you'll be in a good position to critique Watts' description of Chinese.

"365 Tao" link and "Everyday Tao" link, both by Deng Ming-dao are not scholarly works, but they include some interesting philosophical discussions about particular characters which include some etymology.

"The Composition of Common Chinese Characters(an Illustrated Account)" link by Guanghui Xie also includes the etymology of specific characters.

It's not as hard as it might seem- If you just start you'll notice that each character is just composed out of other characters; therefore the more you know; the easier you can learn vocabulary.

For example the character 啤, ("pi" -> "Alcohol") which is composed of 口 (="Mouth" on the left side; indicating the meaning - something to drink) and 卑 ("bi" on the right side; indicating pronounciation) -

There are plenty of good books;

This is the one I use

​

This is a terrific question.

No, there is no name for this phenomenon in Chinese; at least, none that is stronger than 韵律, 'prosody.' But in Chinese, prosody leaks into grammar: 五言 and 七言 rhythms are so strongly embedded as to affect even ticket-sellers' calls -- "农科站－没票买票!" (That's pure 七言!)

More to your question, you'll find that extendable verbs -- e.g. 坐 and 乘坐 -- are never longer, but often shorter, than their objects. That is, you can't 乘坐车, but you can 坐公交车, and you can also 坐车.

The short answer is that rhythm is a part of Chinese grammar.

If you want to learn a lot about this subject, the book is An Anatomy of Chinese: Rhythm, Metaphor, Politics by Perry Link. Hope this points you on a road that can answer your question thoroughly!

I haven't finished it yet, but I'm enjoying Chinese Through Poetry quite a bit.

In other words you're illiterate. :-)

I like this book.

A listen-and-repeat package.

I've done five lessons, and the repetition is good, especially considering the four tones.

As for your mandarin-to-english dictionary, this is a beginner, and here's a fully-fledged dictionary. But have a look around and do "window shopping" as not every product will suit everybody's needs.

Reading is useful to attempt. Several of their books only require you to know 300 words or so.

I really like Stephen Owen's anthology (http://amzn.com/0393971066)

you know what book you would like? this book. http://www.amazon.com/The-Memory-Palace-Matteo-Ricci/dp/0140080988

Not sure if it's the same.. just sounds like a new edition. http://amzn.to/QGn1pP is the one I used. It was very formulaic and phrase-based.

Before people settled on "computers" as the word to use in English, they also used "electronic brains" as well. The formal Chinese term for computers is still 電子計算機, or "electronic computer", but since 計算機 has become the term for "calculators", this has become uncommon and sounds stilted now.

How to Read Chinese Poetry is exactly what you're looking for.

Try:

http://www.amazon.com/PRACTICAL-CHINESE-GRAMMAR-FOREIGNERS-Revised/dp/7561921632

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Oxford-Chinese-Dictionary-Dictionaries/dp/0199207615

it must be https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1569757275/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1483113585&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=dirty+chinese

I have this one. I like it. It goes from beginner to intermediate really well and is broken into lessons.

A Practical Chinese Grammar

I received it from my teachers.

Dirty Chinese: Everyday Slang from (Dirty Everyday Slang)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1569757275/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_SZcVDb26K7TCC

How do you know spoken English without knowing the International Phonetic Alphabet? English dictionaries write their pronunciations in the International Phonetic Alphabet.

I will explain what the symbols mean.

Refer to this chart.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet_chart#Pulmonic_consonants

Say the m sound in the English word him for at least 5 seconds. Block your nose with your fingers while saying the m sound. Notice that the air is blocked in the nose, if you are saying the m sound correctly. Both lips are closed for the m sound. The sound is called bilabial nasal. Refer to the chart. Notice the words Place and Manner. The place of the m sound is bilabial. That means that the sound is made with both lips. The manner of the m sound is nasal. That means that the air exits through the nose. Remember that the air was blocked while saying the m sound. That applies to all nasal sounds. Say the n sound in the English word nice while blocking your nose with your fingers. The air is blocked in the nose. Try the same with the ng sound in the English word sing. The same thing happens. The difference with the n sound is that the front part of the tongue touches the front hard part of the roof of the mouth. The difference with the ng sound is that the back part of the tongue touches the soft back part of the tongue. The difference between the sounds m and n and ng is the place of saying the sounds.

OK, we understand how the chart works. I can not explain what the symbols t and ʂ and ʰ and x are, because to teach them is difficult. You can refer to the book A practical introduction to phonetics in the link.

https://www.amazon.com/Practical-Introduction-Phonetics-Textbooks-Linguistics/dp/0199246351

The book teaches one how to produce sounds of languages by instructing how to control the organs for speaking and uses the International Phonetic Alphabet.