(Part 2) Top products from r/Marriage

It's tough to offer any kind of advice for your situation because you talk in a lot of generalities.

However, my wife and I have struggled quite a bit over the last few years and it sucks. I feel like things are getting better, but there are always mis-steps even on the up-swing.

If your wive really has checked out, there's not much you can do. It takes two to make a couple.

However. You can work on yourself. In so doing, you might find that it helps your relationship. Or it might not. But even if your relationship falls apart, you will be in a much better space to cope with that and move on -- as difficult as it seems right now.

So, here's my suggestions ... things that I have been doing and reading over the last couple of years that have really helped me.

1. Stop looking at all the things she is doing wrong. Focus on what she is doing right. This is tough and requires a huge shift in thinking and an even bigger thinking around letting go of your ego.
   
   
2. Every day do something to show some appreciation for someone in your life. One person every day. Say thank you and tell them what they mean to you. This will help you focus on more positive things overall. Include your wife in this, though she doesn't need to be the focus of this every day.
   
   
3. Be honest with yourself and her. Can you give her what she wants. There are some things that I just can't give my wife. And some things she can't give me. How important are these things? And are there other ways to get them?
   
   
4. Adopt a meditation practice. Download the Headspace app. It has a nice introduction to meditation. It has helped me immensely.
   https://www.headspace.com/
   
   
5. If you don't exercise, start. Personally, I enjoy weight lifting. Try Strong Lifts if you can. It's a simple program that will show fast results.
   http://stronglifts.com/
   
   
6. If you don't eat healthy, start. There are so many diets out there. Even if you just start eating smaller portions and cut out snacking, you'll see some positive results. That's where I started. I eventually started doing the Alt Shift Diet. Yeah, you can call it a fad diet or whatever. I don't care. It works for me and that's the key -- find a diet that works for you.
   http://altshiftdiet.com/
   
   
7. Read How to talk so your kids will listen and listen so your kids will talk. Great advice that applies even when you are talking to adults.
   https://www.amazon.com/How-Talk-Kids-Will-Listen/dp/1451663889/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1474568476&sr=1-1&keywords=how+to+talk+so+kids+will+listen+%26+listen+so+kids+will+talk
   
   
8. Read People Skills. This is a great book on active listening and conflict resolution. Helpful in so many situations.
   https://www.amazon.com/People-Skills-Yourself-Resolve-Conflicts/dp/067162248X
   
   
9. Read this post and some of the posts that follow it. Incredibly insightful
   https://np.reddit.com/r/sexover30/comments/538uat/mismatched_couples/d7r5hys
   
   
10. Read Never Split the Difference. Another great book that is geared more toward business negotiation, but has been a great help in my personal life. I can take the time to understand someone else's perspective without letting go of mine. Also great to help assert myself better in my relationship. His description of active listening was also helpful.
    https://www.amazon.com/Never-Split-Difference-Negotiating-Depended/dp/0062407805/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1474568493&sr=1-1&keywords=chris+voss
    
    
11. Read Come as You Are. A great book on women's sexuality specifically, but it's really about sexuality in general. It's backed by a lot of research. Has a lot of insight into human sexuality. Great reading. Helped me understand myself and my wife better. (Goes beyond the typical High Libido and Low Libido stuff that I always found less than helpful.)
    http://www.amazon.com/Come-You-Are-Surprising-Transform/dp/1476762090/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1436544375&sr=8-1&keywords=come+as+you+are
    
    
12. Do stuff on your own. Go out with friends. Go to the movies by yourself. Make sure both of you get breathing room away from each other.
    
    
13. Be honest. If you feel something tell her. You don't have to be mean. But do be honest. "You are making me angry right now, can we talk about it later when I have calmed down." "Your tone sounds rude and condescending. Please talk to me like I am an adult or we can wait and talk later." This one is tough and statements should be made from your perspective rather than made as statements of fact.
    
    Anyway, those are my suggestions and have helped me immensely. Take what you think will work for you. Ignore the rest.
    
    Best of luck!
    

I'm no expert on the matter, but I've been married about 13 years and some of the things you are saying I completely relate to. Here's some advice from someone who knows what you are going through, and still struggles with it.

Giving is crucial, you mentioned massages that you give her weekly, that is good. However, if you are giving only with the hope that it will turn her on or an attempt to have sex with her, it will always always backfire on you. Learn to selflessly give without the expectation of something in return.

You mentioned the compliments on how sexy you think your wife is and how you pinch her behind from time-to-time. Being married for a long time that stuff loses its luster and if you are hoping it will turn her on or lead to sex, it will turn your wife off even more.

You mentioned cleaning every day after work. That is awesome, but like I said, if this because she needs it and you hope it means she will be interested sexually in you, then you are doing it for the wrong reasons.

Don't get it somewhere else. This might be the hardest thing for you to not do. I understand, I'm a guy. I've had these struggles too, but I'm telling you, it will destroy you, speaking from experience. You made a promise to the woman you love, and that promise is more important than any pornographic web site or strip club can provide.

Think about what it is you want when it comes to sex. Is it purely a physical release? Is it that you want to connect with the woman you love. Evaluate and ask yourself when you do make love, is it all about getting what you want?

Lastly, not talking about sex with your wife is probably the most damaging, because your sexuality will 'leak out' in other ways, which as I previously mentioned can destroy you and your marriage. The reality is, she probably doesn't see it the way you do, but if she really loves you, allow her some flexibility as she changes. Setting ultimatums will NEVER work.

I think in the heat of the moment, you and I want this fixed right away, we think, we've been married several years and this has gone on long enough! But the reality is, people don't change over night. Even though my wife is still struggling in this area, we have had to make a lot of conscious changes in how we deal with it, because neither of us like fighting about it. Your wife probably feels guilty that she isn't more interested. If you are truly committed to her for life, then you are willing to do what it takes. A successful marriage isn't easy, but it is definitely worth it.

There are a GREAT DEAL of resources regarding high and low desire when it comes to sex in marriage. I would suggest the following:

The Sex-Starved Marriage by Michelle Weiner-Davis

There are several marriage related podcasts that cover this topic in great deal as well.

ONE Extraordinary Marriage has a great podcast. This is a married couple who shares their story that is very similar to what you've expressed.

Sexy Marriage Radio Doctor Corey Allen and Shannon Ethridge are both marriage counselors and have amazing perspective on this topic.

I hope this helps. I know how you feel in terms of loneliness. It's not easy, but it is worth it in the long run. My wife and I have set an agreement that we will have sex 2x a week. She is supposed to initiate with me on 3 of those days, and on the next 3 days, I initiate. We have one extra day where sex isn't necessarily on the table for either of us. I use the time I initiate to really try to connect with her and focus on her needs sexually. I also spend time discussing earlier in the day so she has time to prepare for the idea (springing it on her doesn't work). When we do have sex on my days to initiate, they aren't really geared to my sexual needs, but satisfying her is very fulfilling. One her days to initiate, she spends time focusing on me and things I enjoy.

Now it doesn't happen like this every time, and sometimes a quickie is all we can do since we're both tired, but it has HELPED tremendously. 5-7 years ago we were having sex less than 10 times a year, and now we're 1-2 times a week. We get along much better, neither of us feel the pressure that not having sex causes, and you're not having to worry or wonder if/when you're going to be intimate with your spouse.

This is not abuse but he is a jerk. My mom is an occasional smoker and knows most people hate the smell, herself included. Here are the products she uses:

Sprays:
Fresh Wave Odor Removing Spray - works like Febreze, spray across the room, natural product, can get smoke smell out of clothes, couches, carpets, etc. really nice product, eliminates well.
Zep Smoke Odor Remover Aerosol Spray Commercial Smoke Odor Eliminator - more heavy duty spray, doesn’t have a strong smell but is a bit more chemical obviously. This is what we used first before we found the Fresh Wave natural products. Works well on clothing, carpets, couches, and also odors in plastic containers like garbage cans.

Gel/Candle:
Fresh Wave Odor Removing Gel - natural ingredients, lavender scent, good for small spaces like the bathroom or kitchen, perhaps the living room as a background odor eliminator. You may prefer a candle, but this doesn’t require you to remember to put it out and with a toddler I’m sure that’s helpful.
Just Makes Scents Smoke & Odor Eliminator Blended Soy Candle - there are tons of candles that work for smoke odor elimination. It’s just a matter of finding the one you like. My sister got my mom this one and its a nice smell without being overpowering. It’s also a soy wax candle and is more environmentally friendly than other brands.

Air Filter:
Pure Enrichment PureZone HEPA Air Purifier

• this is more of an investment but if you feel like your whole house smells smoky, this would be a good item to consider. Works really nicely in living room sized space but you could also move it to the bedroom or nursery.
  There are lots of other filters like this. I’m just choosing the one my mom has because I know it works.
  
  Charcoal Bags:
  California Home Goods Air Purifying Bags - these charcoal bags are awesome for stinky shoes but also work on coats and coat closets and small spaces like vehicles. My mom wears one coat and one pair of “garage shoes” to smoke in and those are left outside in the garage. We put these in her shoes and the coat’s pockets and it’s helped a lot.
  
  Another option:
  Ozium products are really good but the things linked above are generally more natural. Since you’re pregnant and have a little one, you could use Ozium in your husband’s vehicle or in the garage but I wouldn’t recommend them in the house right now.

Personal counseling is best, but there are a lot of other resources you can turn to.

I highly recommend The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk.
He does a great job of explaining why trauma continues to affect us even when we have rationally come to understand and explain what happened.

An abusive childhood creates a number of issues that make it impossible to have a healthy relationship until they are resolved. The cycle you mention is a cycle of abuse. Good for you for recognizing it. You learned it in your childhood and will keep repeating it until you get some resolution. The work you've done has helped, but there is more to do.

Traumatic bonding is an important subject too.

I could go on but you get the idea. Youtube is a favorite of mine because there are a lot of personal stories from those who've been there and are doing much better now.

You may or may not save your marriage, as you've said, but this is worth it just for yourself. Trust me. You have lived with so much pain for so long you don't even recognize it anymore. Once you start to resolve some of these things you'll feel the burdens lifting. It's really wonderful!

Source: childhood with narcissistic father lead me to keep seeking out narcissists and eventually marry one (who was abused in her childhood). Destroyed me in many ways. Doing much better now!

Those butterflies will inevitably dissipate in any long term relationship anyway. The fact that you never had them could possibly be a good thing. You've made it ten years. So I see two questions: 1) Why get married now? What will change? 2) Why not get married? If you've made it ten years then what will change by getting married?

So question 1 and 2 are essentially the same question: What will change by getting married? Answer that question and you will hopefully have your answer.

While you're mulling over the answer, perhaps you could benefit by reading Aaron Ben-Ze'ev new book The Arc of Love: How Our Romantic Lives Change over Time

Here's a review:

> “Aaron Ben-Ze’ev’s new book The Arc of Love is an enthralling account of why so many people today end up in a series of meaningless short-term relationships, hoping that one day they will meet their perfect match. But Ben-Ze’ev doesn’t settle for identifying the root cause of why we are having trouble finding profound long-lasting love. Throughout the book he offers practical advice that can help you get rid of your unrealistic ideals and show you how you can come to experience the magic of being able to grow old with the person you love.”
>
>(Berit “Brit” Brogaard, author of On Romantic Love)

Your wife sounds like she's stuck in that mindset of always displaying a strong face and never letting down her emotional guard, not trusting anyone with her feelings, and not establishing a true connection with anybody. She's running the family like a business and letting her logic dictate everything, and treating you like you were hired together to raise children and being a perfectionist who's very hard and tough on both of you in meeting unrealistic expectations while not providing support for each other. I'm reading a great book on relationships that would explain this very well: https://www.amazon.com/Power-Other-startling-boardroom-beyond/dp/0061777145/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1523764640&sr=8-2&keywords=power+of+the+other

If your wife thinks counseling is taking it outside of the family then she probably doesn't rely on anyone for support and it's taking its toll because we all need connection. She needs to learn how to trust you and open up, maybe the book will be enlightening to you both about how relationships can work.

It's very hard to maintain a relationship like this because it tires both of you out, but you can't possibly change to please her unless she changes her mindset first. It's not about her working on the marriage, it's about her working on herself. I'm sure she wants to be happy, but she needs to let down her guard and trust you with difficult feelings and stop pretending everything is fine all the time, there really is no need. Did something happen to make her feel unsafe to display her true emotions?

I literally cannot recommend this book enough! Please read it together! You two will need to establish some boundaries on what interactions with parents look like now that you are married and what each person is comfortable with. His reaction is somewhat justified in that he may see that you are still viewing your parents as your immediate family when your immediate family is now with your husband. Your reaction is also justified in that you love and care for your parents and talking to them keeps you healthy. From there, with the book, you can decide where to draw the boundaries.

As difficult as this is, it is definitely fixable. I know from my own experience. But if you need other examples Unfaithful:Stories of Betrayal is a sow about affairs and how real couples have dealt with them. Some bounce back stronger than ever but it takes a lot of work and counseling to rebuild that trust. I went through something with my first husband. Obviously we didn't fix it but there was a book my dad recommended to me called I don't love you anymore. Here is a link http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Love-You-Anymore-What/dp/0785265155/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1382714526&sr=8-1&keywords=i+don%27t+love+you+anymore+by+david+clark . This book helped me out so much because it helped me to see if my marriage was worth saving and it gives you the steps to take to ensure that the proper changes are made. It tells you how to handle your wife, what to say to her, and what to expect from her and if she's not willing to do what you ask, then you know you can't fix it. That's what happened with me. And I had more peace about getting divorced because he wasn't willing to change.

Here are some other books that really helped me. I'm always recommending them to people on Reddit. Are you the one for me?
https://www.amazon.com/Are-You-One-Me-Avoiding/dp/0440215757

Also "Safe people"
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0310210844/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1520720670&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=safe+people+by+cloud+and+townsend&dpPl=1&dpID=412yuh5j4RL&ref=plSrch

Henry Cloud is a great author. Also "Why can't you read my mind REALLY helped my marriage.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1569244758/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1520720763&sr=8-2&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=why+cant+you+read+my+mind

Arm yourself bro! And good luck!

If she's using a vibrator then would she let you use it on her?

Some things you could use as conversation starters.

Marriage Part 2, Intimacy: https://youtu.be/YY2F9kFKkfw

https://www.amazon.ca/Sheet-Music-Uncovering-Intimacy-Marriage/dp/0842360247/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1538527303&sr=1-1&keywords=Sheet+music

https://www.amazon.ca/Intended-Pleasure-Itpe-Dr-Wheat/dp/0800719573/ref=pd_bxgy_img_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=0800719573&pd_rd_r=1ce36c43-c6a5-11e8-9c40-258f68d376cf&pd_rd_w=m0FCf&pd_rd_wg=vkxvY&pf_rd_i=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_m=A3DWYIK6Y9EEQB&pf_rd_p=cda2b2aa-f379-4b98-b5ff-b78659186dbe&pf_rd_r=HVXKPJPS5GB0F009DYFZ&pf_rd_s=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_t=40701&psc=1&refRID=HVXKPJPS5GB0F009DYFZ

They are all coming from a Chrisitan perspective, but the focus is on being comfortable talking with your spouse about sex and figuring out what you like.

So far as I can tell, u guys got a whole lot of problems. I love how you see it as "our" problem instead of just "his." You guys also seem very committed to your marriage, which yields nothing but respect from me. Therapy is definitely a great step, CBT and mindfullness training helped me and my marriage a ton. My best advice is to keep at it, and to set hard boundaries. This is a problem that you can overcome, but you have to let him know where the line is and stick to it. Him throwing temper tantrums in front of the kids seems like it should be over that line, so make it so. I know it's hard, but you guys are taking the appropriate steps to solve it. It will take time, pain, tears, and a host of uncomfortable converaations. But I promise you that you all will be the stronger once it's over. Here goes a couple of resources that helped me and my wife out through a similar situation. I also read a few PTSD books, which although he may not be diagnosed with, it is a very well established branch in psychology with great resources and tips on how to identify and control anger outrages, depression, and a breakdown in self confidence. Hope this helps!

https://www.amazon.com/Clinicians-Guide-Mind-Over-Mood/dp/0898628210
https://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-When-Take-Control-Your/dp/0310247454

I've been hoping to take a peek at Don't You Dare Get Married Until You Read This! to see how much of a religious slant it has (if any), since I've seen it recommended a few times before. Might be worth poking through at least, if you can find it locally.

It's been 2 years man, these people telling you Its PPD are silly.

You wife has lost all attraction for you. It happens all the dam time after having a child. It usually happens about 7 +/- a couple years in after the second kid.

If you head over to /r/deadbearooms you will see a version of your story day in day out. The more you try and do what this world tells you to do, communication (yuck), active listening, more help around the house, date nights, compliments, give her more space, it dosent matter, none of it will work.

Everyone trys communication, it's shoved down our throats but it's ineffective for this. If communication actually worked this would never be an issue. In dead bedrooms they have language like "the talk" and it's almost always a disaster. Communication only comes across as begging and it makes you look needy.

Check out this book, it has helped a lot of men turn a situation just like yours around. I warn you though, it's a lot of work. Have a read.

https://www.amazon.ca/Married-Man-Life-Primer-2011-ebook/dp/B004W0IRQ8

He also has a blog married man sex life. Check it out.

If you want new behaviour to come out of your wife (more sex) then something new needs to come out of you. More of the same is not going to work.

Improve yourself, stop thinking about sex and your wife.

One of the core tenets of this book:

https://www.amazon.ca/Subtle-Art-Not-Giving-Counterintuitive/dp/0062641549

It explains how pursuing things that we want like sex only demonstrates to us a lack of sex.

Forget about sex and work on yourself.

And most of all, NEVER COMPLAIN.

The secret to a great sexlife is more complaining. Said Noone EVER.

I'm leaving the typo on deadbearooms because it's hilarious.

Sounds extremely common. PPD. If I may recommend a book: This Isn’t What I Expected

https://www.amazon.com/Living-Passive-Aggressive-Man-Aggression-Boardroom/dp/0671870742/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1520791053&sr=8-1&keywords=passive+aggressive+man

Read, read and read more.

Start with this;https://www.amazon.com/Why-Marriages-Succeed-Fail-Yours/dp/0684802414/ref=sr_1_1?crid=23Y5HFX1T46KJ&keywords=gottman+why+marriages+succeed+or+fail&qid=1573434581&sprefix=gottman+why+marri%2Caps%2C275&sr=8-1


And this:
https://www.amazon.com/After-Honeymoon-Conflict-Improve-Relationship-ebook/dp/B009ZYHVJ0/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=after+the+honeymoon&qid=1573434651&sr=8-1

Don’t, my husband has never been a writer (that’s more my style), but he is very romantic in his own way. We still very much have our spark after 16 years. If a relationship becomes mundane that’s because one or both partners have become complacent. Complacencies is dangerous because it can easily breed resentment and resentment is the death of any relationship. You can have the relationship you want, you both just have to want it. However you can start this process. Marriage is like being in a boat. If one person moves the other has to it it sinks. Try reading John Gottman’s relationship cure it’s a good one.