(Part 2) Top products from r/WorldOfWarships

Boyo? Hahaha I'm being trolled by an 1890 Top Hat dude with a handlebar moustache. Sing us a Barbershop song, Sport!

Anyhooo....

AoN was invented in the US with the Standard class of BB's. AoN does not mean that the bow and stern of the ship had no armored bulkheads, as you said here:

>She had an All or Nothing scheme, which means the bow had little if any armor.

On American BBs, the forward and aft bulkhead were generally of the thickness of the armor belt, hence... wait for it... "All or Nothing"

All or Nothing means you do not add 'medium' armor thickness as on a Japanese Fuso or RN Queen Elizabeth or US New York Class. You either have the maximum thickness of plate practical, or no armor at all. All. or. Nothing.

Typical American Standard BBs included a 13.5" armor belt, and a forward and aft bulkhead of 13.5". In most cases, this armor was tapered from the belt/deck armor end to meet the barbette, which, again, had about 13.5" of armor.

This rule was violated in the US with the intallation of I believe a 15" forward plate in USS Wisconson. Other Iowa class BB's had a typical 12.2" forward bulkhead.

So the Richeleau had a thinner forward bulkhead, but by not means is it 'little' armor, and in being not the same thickness as the belt, actually deviates from the All or Nothing scheme.

U.S. Battleships: An Illustrated Design History Friedman Hardcover

[Battleships: Allied Battleships in World War II 1st Edition Robert O. Dulin Jr., William H. Garzke Jr. ] (https://www.amazon.com/Battleships-Allied-World-War-II/dp/0870211005)

I appreciate your enthusiasm, but you have some reading to do.

Do not take your cues on BB design from World of Warships. It's a game. In fact, true AoN armor schemes are nearly impenetrable from the bow, including the Iowa, Montana, and Yamato class ships. In fact, due to the great deal of STS armor plate included in the two final US classes designed, it would be nearly impossible for a Yamato to penetrate several layers of 1/2", 1-1/2", and 1" STS armor plate, at an angle, and not be disturbed to maintain enough APC integrity to pierce the forward bulkhead. This causes some frustration for those of us who have studied the relevant history of American BBs, and the relative weakness of most IJN APC rounds, but then, it's just a game.

Have a good day!

Edit: I'd like to add, the STS 'armor plate' used in the construction of the Iowa class ships does not include stringers or support beams. All other ships, including other US ships besides the Iowa and Montana classes, used marine-grade steel for decks and bulkheads. In those two classes, decks and bulkheads are often made of STS, or Special Treatment Steel, 118,500 psi tensile. It's essentially Class B armor. So while the Yamato was constructed of mild steel, and had armor plates, the Iowa and Montana classes are actually made out of armor plate. By comparison, modern American warships, as good a standard as any, are constructed of HY80, or steel with 80,000 psi tensile. Of course, modern steel is more consistent and more importantly, has a greater 'give to yield' envelope than STS made in the 1930s. Still, the lavish use of STS in Iowa and Montana class plans and construction means these ships are incredibly stout, much more so than Wikipedia armor statistics can convey. In short, WoW is an arcade game, and the final two classes of American BBs are the finest possible way to construct a Battleship, regardless of fire-control or damage control practice or any other oft-mentioned US superiority. The fabric of the ships themselves is vastly superior to any other BB ever constructed or conceived. They are literally Superweapons.

Yeah, but it's also worth noting A LOT of the ships - a lot more than most people are willing to admit - were old ships. PT boats, trawlers, schooners, ocean liners...

If you have a chance and are into reading; read Glyn Prysor's "Citizen Sailors" http://www.amazon.com/Citizen-Sailors-Glyn-Prysor/dp/0141046325 (on mobile, so sorry for the format). There's probably even better books out there that cover ships and the RN in general; but this one comes with first hand tales from the men serving aboard these ships.
It's also the last one I read about it, so it's fresh in my mind.

If you libe the RN like I do, but haven't thought about things such as to why it was the largest navy in the world, then this may be an eye opener for a lot of people.

I by no means want to take any glamour nor fame away from the Royal Navy, but it was what it was, not only due to the transition from a worldwide empire to the commonwealth it is today, but also the time during which it took place; wartime. Desperate times call for desperate measures, they did what they had to, and let there be no doubt over the fact that these men did the best they could with what was at hand. Be they serving on the RN's battleships or cruisers, or shamble PT boats

I probably started collecting these around 2000, when I was still a kid. The ones from Osprey are pretty nice and widely available on amazon. The Squadron/Signal's are more difficult to find these days, but your local hobby shop might carry them.

A particular favorite on mine is the one on the top right, as my thesis professor in college wrote it when he was a grad student at Yale. He was pretty surprised when I brought it in during office hours to have it signed. Apparently it hasn't been in print since the 80's.

I can post links to any of them, should any of you be interested in picking up some for yourself, not all of them are in print still though.

Someone mentioned some alternatives such as the Kostromitnov which is pretty good as a Tier 10 given its basically the same size as a Midway. Also keep in mind the projects sometimes got redesigned, if I recall the 72 for example had two differing designs with one being much larger.

A good book on the never were Soviet ships is Stalin's Ocean-going Fleet: Soviet Naval Strategy and Shipbuilding Programs, 1935-53 which includes the various design specs for completed and incomplete ships, including the various iterations which is pretty helpful for ships like the Kronstadt which had a couple of wildly differing designs when it came to armament for example.

And if you wanted to have a no torpedo proposal I would think it would be better to have AP and HE DBs instead of HE DBs and HE level bombers. Giving it a mix of damage types rather than 3 sources of HE spam would make it more interesting/useful while less annoying to play against.

Definitely. Polish effort towards intelligence with regard to the Enigma cipher is also important through that time period. I read a lot of history and found myself fascinated with the Poles; a good place to start is Zamoyski's work although they are at least tangentially related in other histories like The Enemy at the Gate - who doesn't love Sobieski vodka? In any case, the Blyskawica ("lightning" - be sure to look up its proper pronounciation) was my very first premium purchase, of which I am proud, even though I have little to no Polish blood. Their history of Catholicism also made them a fun choice in everything from Medieval: Total War II to the Europa Universalis series...but of course that's a far cry from piloting a destroyer. (although true enough, they are a rather tough country to play in Hearts of Iron)

When town hall is open for two hours and every department locks their doors during that period you learn to love American bureaucracy. :-)

It's a leeeeetle dated however was funny to me back in the day. https://www.amazon.com/Ciao-America-Italian-Discovers-U-S/dp/0767912365

I think I got this book at a book fair in elementary school. It was really cool IIRC. Tons of full color/full page photos of everything. I wonder if my parents still have it at their place... that was almost 30 years ago, wow.

Edit:

I think it might have been this one I had:

https://www.amazon.com/Exploring-bismarck-Hitlers-Greatest-Battleship/dp/0394220544/

This one was my first naval book. There wasn't enough writing covering each battleship but it had a great selection of photos.

There's a great write up on this in the book Castles of Steel

The Discovery of the Bismarck: Germany's Greatest Battleship Surrenders Her Secrets

https://www.amazon.com/Discovery-Bismarck-Germanys-Battleship-Surrenders/dp/0446513865/ref=pd_sim_14_4/130-4042116-2623318?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=0446513865&pd_rd_r=5618fd48-6d9a-11e9-9f57-c98fbdd56605&pd_rd_w=yrPm4&pd_rd_wg=HrkHH&pf_rd_p=90485860-83e9-4fd9-b838-b28a9b7fda30&pf_rd_r=PWHYFBAT0X8RRKVFDHBQ&psc=1&refRID=PWHYFBAT0X8RRKVFDHBQ

You'd really enjoy Ghost Fleet then.

This is a classic, I've read this over 5x last year while flying around for work.

I also highly recommend thunder below!, I would pay a lot for a premium USS Barb...

*typo

from the Robert D. Ballard book on the finding the bismark, the swastika had been painted over after launch, and was visible b/c the top layer of paint had been eaten/weathered away. Ballard's Book

Its history is rather boring, unfortunately. It's the battleship version of a mall crawler.

If you dig amusing and interesting history from that era, you might get a kick out of The Last Battle.

Conway's All the World's Fighting Ships: 1906-1921, page 224 (1984 edition).

Lifted the reference from here: Number 13-class battleship

EDIT: Also, sure, that's a lot of money, but consider that they made less money back then.

https://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Next-Generation-Technical/dp/0671704273

Are detailed schematics from a fictional ship also fiction? I'm confused now....

I would perform some dark arts to get a movie centered on the USS Juneau that started just before the naval battle at Guadalcanal, spent some confused time on the night action itself, and then the latter 2/3 of the movie on the sinking and survival disaster afterwards. I read a book on it (IIRC by one of the survivors, or sourced from several) when I was in middle school in the late '90s. It was morbidly fascinating and tragic.

They could even use Paul Allen's footage of the wreck during the end credits...

Edit - this is the book. It even has a movie-ready title.

This kind of stuff certainly happened during the war: https://books.google.com.my/books?id=yep6BwAAQBAJ&pg=PT27&lpg=PT27&dq=Lexington+torpedo+damage+control+officer&source=bl&ots=zqBjB2VXna&sig=WB95Uefplm5EaABJL2pAL-u7Qpo&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=Lexington%20torpedo%20damage%20control%20officer&f=false

"The crew of the battered Lexington worked fast and skillfully, and before long she was steaming at 25 kts and taking planes aboard. The damage control officer reported to Captain Sherman, 'We've got the torpedo damage temporarily shored up, the fires out, and soon will have the ship back on an even keel. But I would suggest, sir, that if you have to take any more torpedoes, you take 'em on the starboard side."

Within one hour, the Lexington would suffer an avgas explosion and have to be abandoned.

It's normal in war, especially after a serious situation. No use screaming on the radio "SHIT, SHIT, WE TOOK A TORPEDO" If the ship can still continue sailing, it does no harm to send that kind of message to let people know you're fine and ready to fight.

That particular story of Nelson comes from this book: https://www.amazon.com/Battleship-Nelson-Story-H-M/dp/0853687269

If you have evidence otherwise, you are more than welcome to present it.