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u/mrutssamoht · 7 pointsr/composertalk

Hey man,
Same thing happened to me a few years ago. I just started writing on paper with piano if I needed help with pitches. I'd write as many pages as possible and then put what I did on finale just to hear what I wrote. It seems like a good method because nothing really beats the formatting of a good notation program but as many of my Comp. Prof.'s have said, "Midi isn't real. It will trick you." I think that's the most important part of this whole process. Something you write on midi might be very impossible (or uselessly difficult). Also, feel free to bring some music to someone who actually play the instrument you are writing for and asking them to play through it. Most performers I know are always willing to do this if they aren't too busy already!

When I started composing microtonaly (year or so ago) this became an even bigger problem for me and I started having to rely on my ear and experimenting with different types of synthesizers to determine an approximate sound. It gets better as you write things out though. Just by working things out from your head to paper for a while you develop a stronger ability to compose without midi crutches.

Some benefits of doing this you might not have thought of:

  1. When composing on paper you have the opportunity to see a line through without being controlled by bar lines or staff division (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004FEF4CG/ref=oh_details_o08_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 I use these). Often times I'll just compose rhythms and melodies without bar lines and then add them in later. This really helps me focus more on readability of a part (I've almost eradicated using too many time signature changes and my rehearsals/performances have gotten much better)

  2. You get to really step back and look at the overall image of what you have done. Just open up to a sheet and observe the aggregate image (much more difficult on a program).

  3. I get headaches looking at a screen for too long so if you have this problem this is great!

  4. It's easier to transport music you are working on.

  5. Composing can move faster because you aren't inhibited by changing note type and then clicking it into a spot etc.

  6. You focus much less on making your score look nice.

  7. You can interrupt a system with notes/visual representations of what you think might happen next (I use different shapes often)/commentary.

    Hope this convinces you this is a good idea.

    Make sure you have a strong hold on proper notation/orchestration (A useful resource - http://www.amazon.com/The-Study-Orchestration-Third-Edition/dp/039397572X, bit pricey though) And also, this site has been a miracle for me - http://www.music.indiana.edu/department/composition/isfee/. This will save you a lot of time.

    Best of luck! Also, just trust yourself and your ear. This stuff takes time, patience, and practice (like all things music).

    Edit: Some Trivia - many composers of the past (those without the miracle/curse of notation software) would just sketch things out and short hand things ("repeat this here", "ostinato bass" etc.) and then hand it to a publisher to put together when it was done. For example, Beethoven. I mean look at this crap - https://www.google.com/search?q=beethoven+hand+written+music&client=firefox-a&hs=fUD&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=fflb&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=8kpKUqyCL4fi2AXV0YGQBA&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1600&bih=701&dpr=1#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=MP65Ypeh4KL_nM%3A%3B-WsvncUQEMICJM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fclassicalmusicblog.com%252F2007%252F09%252Fimages%252Fmvt1-facsimile-s.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fclassicalmusicblog.com%252F2007%252F09%252Fbeethoven-sonata.html%3B580%3B463. Think of the notation software as your robotic publisher. That's what I do.
u/keakealani · 3 pointsr/composertalk

As with all genres (and it seems like you're already on this path), I think listening is easily the most important part of the process. If at all possible, attend live performances - opera is very much a theatrical medium, and while videos can capture some of what goes on, it's just not quite the same as watching a live show. If that's impossible, I'd strongly recommend checking out the Met Live Broadcasts - it's probably the next best thing as they really try to capture the essence of the production.

You can also consider looking at books like A Short History of Opera or similar; while they're not explicitly about the process of writing opera, it's important to understand the genre, its history, and how it has evolved over time. Not to mention, that's probably the best way to quickly figure out which operas have stood out over time as remarkable, which will guide your listening and study.

Beyond that, the only reference I can specifically think of for opera would be the section in Rimsky-Korsakov's book on orchestration about vocal and choral writing. It is definitely the most comprehensive treatment of vocal and choral writing of any major orchestration text (and even then, it's only a couple of pages), and I find it pretty accurate.

I would also suggest speaking with actual opera singers (or opera students, at the very least), especially in terms of the technical aspects. Opera is extremely specialized in terms of technique so it's a good idea to get a feel for what the expectations and limitations are. Some subreddits to check out are /r/singing, /r/ClassicalSinger, or /r/opera.

u/yajnavalkya · 2 pointsr/composertalk

If you are really interested in learning how to interpret and perform extremely complex rhythms, I highly recommend the paper "Learning Bone Alphabet" by Steven Shick. You can also get that paper and more in his book "The Percussionist's Art" which you can find on amazon here.

Shick writes about learning Brian Ferneyhough's piece for solo percussion, Bone Alphabet, which is, like most of Ferneyhough's music, a seemingly impossible undertaking. Shick identifies three strategies for learning how to handle extremely complex rhythms and guides the reader through them.

From my own experience, I found one strategy that Shick talks about particularly helpful: Identify the metric unit that a particular tuple fills and then slowly add more and more of the tuple into that unit.

For example lets say there is an 11-tuplet in a beat. Well, playing 8 16ths in a beat is pretty normal so, I'd just repeat the first 8 notes of the 11-tuplet in that beat and get used to that. Then I'd speed that beat up slightly, relative to the rest of the measure, so that I can play the first 9 notes. Then speed up the beat again and fit in 10 notes. And then take that beat fast enough that I can finally fit in 11 notes. By doing that I'm able to play an 11-tuplet perfectly and evenly, without ever actually thinking about how to divide 2 8th notes into 11 parts.

u/danporto · 2 pointsr/composertalk

If you want more experimental play with fundamental western conceptions of music there are some here: http://www.amazon.com/Experimental-Music-Beyond-Twentieth-Century/dp/0521653835

It depends which direction you want to go, and what you consider fundamental. Alvin Lucier creates music using electrodes attached to his brain that control drums kits and various other sounds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIPU2ynqy2Y

If you want to experience what is probably the opposite of silence check out Merzbow, which comes out of Japan and meant to be an artistic response to atomic bombs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGzrL8J0t-c

In Australia we had a contemporary composer who wrote music for the bionic ear: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLX-rPsphV8

Also see
Acousmatic music - Robert Normandeau -
Electroacoustic music -
Concrete music - Pierre Shaffer -
Field recording -
Radiophonic music
Specialism movement - Tristan Murrail -
Intercultural: There is more to music then the Western cannon. Time isn't linear. History isn't linear. You can read it linearly but it doesn't have to function that way. History is made up, it is fabricated. You can make whatever you like. And really aim for a genuine expression of yourself and express it to the world. If that leads you to a definition of music then so be it.

Tan Dun: Water Music

Cross-disciplinary - Table Music (Musique de Table) by Thierry de Mey


If you want my opinion Cage doesn't know it all. He was a very influential person, but his ideas he borrowed from Asian cultures (from the I-Ching) where not correct. He made his own interpretation, he saw it as chance, whereas Chinese people see it not as a chance but as acausal. (Chou Wen-chung, Locating East Asia in Western Art Music, 2004).

There is more to composition than redefining music, and there is a great deal of fulfillment you can get when you just express what is genuine in yourself.

Here are some books:

  • Feruccio Busoni: Sketch towards a new aesthetic of music.

  • Charles Ives : Essays before a Sonata.

  • Claude Debussy: Monsieur Croche, the dilletante-hater.

  • Harry Partch: Genesis of a Music. (part one)

  • John Cage: Silence; A Year from Monday.

  • Kenneth Gaburo : The Beauty of Irrelevant Music.

  • Milton Babbitt: Who cares if you listen?

  • Trevor Wishart: SUN

  • Karlheinz Stockhausen: Texte (excerpts)

  • Steve Reich: Writings on Music.

  • Alvin Lucier: Chambers
u/natetet · 2 pointsr/composertalk

Yup. I started with improvised music and found a group of people to play with. From there I just started taking private lessons for 3 years. My teacher didn't quite tell me what to do, but he would direct me to information on techniques and examples to study.

I feel like I recommend these books on here every week, but you should check out:

u/[deleted] · 2 pointsr/composertalk

Here are the ranges of typical orchestral instruments. C4 is the The as middle C, C3 is the octave below middle C, and C5 is the octave above.

The things that a computer can make a trumpet sound do and what a trumpet (or any instrument) can do is VERY different. I would suggest picking up an orchestration book from your school's library. This one is pretty basic, and this one is really good..

But the best way to find out what an instrument can and can't do is to ASK A PERFORMER. Almost every instrument is different (has its own tendencies) and every performer is different (mouth, hand span, etc).

u/bloozman5 · 1 pointr/composertalk

When limitations are self-imposed, you always have the option to go beyond them if your piece calls for it. I think that working within limitations can lead to inspiration, which you can then follow. Sometimes that means abandoning those initial principles, but often times the material doesn't call for that. Limitation exercises are also good because you force yourself to try something you've never done before, which can lead to a personal sense of style. Composing Music by William Russo is a great resource for exploring new techniques through a variety of limitation exercises. i'd highly recommend checking it out, it totally changed the way i write. http://www.amazon.com/Composing-Music-A-New-Approach/dp/0226732169.

u/TheCaptainAndMe · 2 pointsr/composertalk

I'd take a look at more modern textbooks that are founded in Fux rather than studying the Fux itself (although there's nothing wrong with looking at it for its historical value. The same could be said of Mozart's figured bass text). Owen's "Modal and Tonal Counterpoint" is pretty good for species counterpoint, if you can get a copy. http://www.amazon.com/Modal-Tonal-Counterpoint-Josquin-Stravinsky/dp/0028721454

u/MapleToothpick · 3 pointsr/composertalk

Cellos have a huge range of sonic possibilities through many different techniques. The range of pitches available is nothing to scoff at either. But bowing on different parts of the string (Sul tasto/sul ponticello etc) or with different parts of the bow (al talon etc). And then there's the wealth of different sounds that are available with harmonics (natural/artificial).

To put it simply, string instruments can make lots of different sounds. I suggest looking at a book on orchestration for a more in depth look at all the possibilities (I use Adler ).

Somewhat off-topic; Boulez wrote a piece for 7 cellos that you may want to listen to.

To answer the second question, I'm personally not very adventurous with my instrumentation. There's a lot that can be done with standard ensembles and it's enough for right now.

I'm currently working on the second movement of a piece for chamber orchestra. Fourteen musicians (15 with conductor).

Flute/Picc, Oboe/Eng Horn, Clarinet/Bass Clar, Bassoon, Horn, Trumpet, Trombone, 1 percussionist, harp, 2 violins, viola, cello, double bass.

It's essentially a standard orchestra with 1 musician to each part.

u/Nope321 · 1 pointr/composertalk

http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Approach-Eighteenth-Century-Counterpoint/dp/0881338532

Wonderful introduction to the subject and much more.

Read through every fugue you can get ahold of by J.S. Bach (almost a cliche response, I know). Obviously, studying the Art of the Fugue and the WTC thoroughly will teach you more about practical application than any book. But, it is always useful to view the subject from differing viewpoints.

u/TravellingJourneyman · 1 pointr/composertalk

Sing everything you write. Every note. If you can't sing, get a sight singing book (I recommend this one). Get a pitch pipe or a tuning fork to check yourself if you don't have a piano or something already.