(Part 2) Top products from r/electricvehicles

> You may think the cost difference between them is trivial, but it absolutely isn’t. The Tesla destination charger is only great for people using Teslas. I agree that Tesla offers quite the steal there, but it isn’t representative of the market.

Tesla to J1772, or charger with the J1772 end.

It costs as much to dig the ditch and rip out the wall for a 12 gauge 20A 240V. Your other points are correct if they have to drop more meters and put in more breaker boxes, though a $20 20A breaker doesn't cost much less than a $30, $50 not on sale, 100A breaker. The wire seems easy enough to calculate, 20amp 4.8kW would be around $0.49 a foot, 40amp 7.2kW is $1.05 a foot, and 100amp would be $4.95 a foot. Maybe aluminium 180amp for $1.35 a foot to a subpanel would make things cheaper for longer runs? Can you just turn aluminium into copper right before the charger, assuming the charger can't just use the aluminium?

> If a lot of hotels aren’t currently providing 19.2kW chargers, it’s for good reason.

According to plugshare, which I can't filter by max power, clicking around looks like 90% of HPWC at hotels support 16kW, some 6kW or 8kW. So your statement is correct, though these hotels aren't only 7.2kW either.

> EDIT: On second thought, I don’t think you even read my comment. You just responded to only the last paragraph like it was some kind of tl;dr. There was so much more nuance to that comment.

I did read it all but your 1MWh example was (an Appeal-to-Extremes)[https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/30/Appeal-to-Extremes] and didn't want to point it out. Still if you want to talk about it: 200kWh seems very likely for trucks and I would expect closer to 300kWh for a dually. Since 19.2kW is the limit of J1772 that is where I am getting the number from and to your point a 300kWh still wouldn't be able to charge from 10% to 100% but 50% charge is better than 19%. I think Semi will have 1-2MWh but I doubt we will see the J1772 plug on them except maybe to run living area stuff and bms. If Semi do support AC then they might use SAE J3068 3 phase 120A 277V so 57.5kW? but really even a 150kW supercharger might take 8hr+.

As for your comment about 3 decent 7.2kW vs 1 19kW I can't disagree there, why not have 4 19kW that can share 1 line that could very well cost less than 4 independent 7.2kW. I thought I showed that is possible at least for the price of the charger. You could still configure those same HPWC to 7.2kW and share to save a little money on wire and possibly the power provider needing the upgrade their lines. At that point though you might as well run a 20A 120v outlet to every spot to help keep batteries warm. Any hotel that doesn't have a charger I ask if I can use their light pole 120v, really helps prevent a cold soaked battery in the morning even if I only got ~20 miles of range on a 10F night.

Not sure how my comment has a lot of nuance to it, maybe since I had linked to that charger with J1772 like 3 times in other replies so far and thought it was common knowledge here that you can charge any car with an adapter I left those links out, sorry. I wan't trying to personally attack you, I am just giving my option with what I think will be best for all in the long term for overall cost and user experience. It is like I see a lot of USB-PD 5v 3A being installed because everyone is using cell phones but soon laptops are coming out and they will need to buy new 5A wires and adapters. I could be wrong and the statement about if it makes a difference where people stay one day is the speculation here. Interesting times ahead for sure, I can't wait.

For GM it was a completely dollars and cents decision. As some have commented, it was related to the change in the ZEV mandate but, if they had been profitable or highly sought after, they would have kept them in production. In the end automakers are (or should be) fuel source agnostic. That said there was no vision for the future nor appetite for large investments for an uncertain ROI. That's why it is usually start-ups that change industries: Netflix, Amazon, and of course Tesla. High risk, high reward. Legacy companies want low risk, high reward.

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I sometimes think that we are better off that GM ended the EV1 program. Had they kept building an interesting but uninspiring, short range EV with a lead acid or NMH pack, would we have over 1M EVs in the US by now? It is a counterfactual that no one can answer.

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Recommending reading. I thoroughly enjoyed. The Car that Could

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Thanks to OP for posting.

> Natural gas and renewables are much cleaner than coal, but a lot of peoples' power is still coming from coal.

That's not how the grid works dude. Your post covers about 5% of the actual picture here. It's late, you'll have to read some books, I don't want to get into this now. But read these: (The Bin Wu one is fucking amazing, read it twice)
http://ca.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-0470593652.html
https://www.amazon.ca/Analysis-Electric-Machinery-Drive-Systems/dp/047114326X

This wouldn't hurt:

https://www.amazon.com/Power-System-Analysis-Design-Fifth/dp/1111425779/ref=pd_sbs_14_t_0?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=JWX7BQ73ZBNN7BCED44E (I have the 3rd edition, but the content is more or less the same)

Source: EE (CEAB)

EDIT: Oh! My point was...total shitpost on your end

Yes, it is fine with a thick gauge cord that is not worn out. Just be careful, because getting careless with it can cause a fire like with any high powered device.

I've been using this 100 ft cable for two years now. I went pretty thick on the gauge to help ensure safety, and it also helps lower losses. Thankfully I'll finally get a garage tomorrow, but this has served me well, allowing me to charge from my apartment every night I got a decent space.

Neat, I didn't know that! I was actually referring more to the transfer between the atmosphere, ocean, and rock. I don't know how much the advent of decomposition makes a difference. Any good resources to learn more?

I'm totally not a scientist, I just like to read about it. If anyone is so compelled, I highly recommend https://www.amazon.com/Universe-Within-Discovering-History-Planets/dp/0307378438

Do you have a private natural gas field? I don't. In fact, there is very little (9.4 billion m^3 /year, falling) natural gas production in my country.

Do you think that natural gas is inexhaustible? I'm afraid this pattern https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_gas#/media/File:Global_Giant_Gas_Discoveries_1900-2000.png is only slightly lagging this pattern https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/http%3A%2F%2Fcom.ft.imagepublish.prod.s3.amazonaws.com%2F7b96d2ba-f14a-11e6-8758-6876151821a6?source=next&fit=scale-down&width=600

> The only reason hydrogen was considered

To widen your very narrow view, check out https://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Oil-Gas-Methanol-Economy/dp/3527312757/ -- it addresses some of the issues of hydrogen economy.

This is good advice. I'm re-thinking my spare strategy now to include a plug kit, which is only ~$6 and not that hard to use along with a 12VDC air pump (only 4lbs!).

I've got this one that I use for my C-Max.

But I can't really recommend it exactly; it was suggested by someone on the C-Max forums, and I didn't want to worry about whether the instructions to set up the battery readings would differ by product or if others had the same functionality. I also don't know if instructions exist for setting up for the Volt. (I had to "program" it specifically to read things like the SoC and battery temperature by entering a bunch of numbers that were posted up on that forum.)

You need to read this: https://www.amazon.com/Free-Future-Radical-Chris-Anderson-ebook/dp/B002DYJR4G

The optimal price for this is zero, with the cost of providing the service added to the prices of the groceries.

I would not run a car charger through any direct contact meter. If the meter dies you may looses your ride to work. Consider something like https://sense.com meter that clamps around the wires. It may be overkill but would probably work well. Sense can measure the whole house and identify each appliance.

A lower price option (still 3X your device) clamp meter + wire splitter in also bought section

Wire splitter

You need to get the wire splitter to get just the live wire.

If you are ok charging from a 120 volt outlet, you could offer to buy a Kill-a-watt power meter for $20 and report your usage to the landlord or at least use it to keep track and verify what he charges you.

I installed an EKM meter inline with my Tesla Wall Connector:

https://i.imgur.com/58xgwHP.jpg

https://www.amazon.com/Electric-Meter-100A-Volt-3-Wire/dp/B00GMZRXE8/

https://www.amazon.com/TEKTON-5696-Gear-Puller-3-Piece/dp/B000NPT698

How about a long-shackle padlock locked to your bike. The charge cord could pass through the shackle preventing someone from removing it.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00004Y8CE/

read 'Let My People Go Surfing', there are plenty of decisions that they will make as an automaker that will be like the following,


A - larger (but legal) environmental impact but higher profit margins
B - lower environmental impact but lower profit margins.


Which do you think a company with a history of literally cheating to get around environmental laws will pick..?

It's a book rather than a study, but there's "Clearing the Air" https://www.amazon.com/Clearing-Air-Beginning-End-Pollution/dp/1472953312 . It looks it the pollution issue from a health perspective and causing respiratory issues. Even if emissions were the same, moving the focus of emissions from vehicles to power plants that are further away can still result in much more breathable air. As a disclaimer, I haven't read the book, just watched an interview with the author on Fully Charged. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0JGjk6Y5a4

He needs some of these bad boys