(Part 2) Top products from r/exjw

There are many who are in your position or have been. My wife is still an active JW (not die-hard) and she takes our child. It doesn't look at this point (3 years since I left) that she's going anywhere. Some make it out with their entire family, but they are the exception. Prepare yourself for that. It is a strong possibility that your wife will never leave.

It is a whole lot easier to get your children out (depending on their age). The younger they are, the better. Spend more time asking questions rather than "exposing the organization." Then, when they finally become curious, you can explore the answers to those questions together.

Spend as much time with your family doing things that don't include Jehovah's Witnesses. If these things "coincidentally" interfere with meetings and service, great! Get your kids involved with extra-curricular activities at school, gymnastics, boy/girl scouts, soccer, etc. The closer they become to children who are normal, the more they will begin to view Jehovah's Witnesses as restrictive and down right weird.

Do you have any nonJW family near by? Get closer to them. Any nonJW friends/associates you could get to know better? Build a new circle of friends outside of the organization NOW. Lets face it, most of us were only ever in the organization because of the relationships anyway. So, if you can find meaningful ones outside of the organization, you will be able to fall into that safety net once the shunning begins.

If you're not sure how to go about making new friends and you want to include your wife, find a hobby that you both enjoy and then go do that together. Meetup is a great way to find people who enjoy the same hobbies (board games, hiking, biking, book clubs, etc.). Find the ones you gravitate toward more and invite them out for drinks afterward or over to your house for dinner or out to coffee. It is likely that if you are attracted to them you will also be attracted to the friends in their social circle. So, sometimes you really only have to find a couple of good friends in the beginning and then let them plug you into a whole new group.

If you are in a position to do so, it might also be smart to move a good distance away from the people you know. It's hard to start in a new congregation and so your wife will be more likely to give up the organization if she doesn't fit in with her hall and if old JW friends/family aren't near by pressuring her multiple days a week. You're already going to have to find new friends to socialize with, so don't let that stop you from making this choice!

You can't stay in the organization for the sake of your wife and kids. You will end up resenting them if they don't leave and it will ruin your relationship anyway. So, I would suggest just making a plan to get out (either fade, or quit cold turkey) at some point soon and between now and then see if you can nudge your family in the same direction.

If they don't escape now, you can at least be true to yourself. While not ideal, it is possible that you could be happy in a religiously divided household. If things get tough between you and the Mrs, look into going to see a counselor. Be honest with her about how you feel, but don't be overly critical of her. Remember, you are the one that changed. Leaving a cult is extremely difficult and she has been programmed to resist you.

There is much more to say on the issue, but those are some quick thoughts before I dart off to work.

I would suggest you order a copy of this book and read it when you get time. I've interviewed Dale and he's a great guy. It'll give you lots of great tips on making a mixed marriage work.

Best of luck to you. Feel free to PM me any time.

It's a bunch of gobbledygook about the generations and the kingdom and all of that. It's all nonsense. In my humble opinion, you need to de-indoctrinate yourself to fully remove these types of fears. Not sure if I've shared this post with you before, but here's what I did personally:

Take some time to learn about the history of the bible. For example, you can take the Open Yale Courses on Religious Studies for free.

Read Who Wrote the Bible by Richard Elliott Friedman

Also read A History of God by Karen Armstrong

Next, learn some actual science. For example - spoiler alert: evolution is true. Visit Berkeley's excellent Understanding Evolution Website.. Or, if you're pressed for time, watch this cartoon.

Read Why Evolution is True by Jerry Coyne

Read The Greatest Show on Earth by Richard Dawkins

Learn about the origin of the universe. For example, you could read works by Stephen Hawking

Read A Briefer History of Time by Stephen Hawking

Learn about critical thinking from people like Michael Shermer, and how to spot logical fallacies.


For good measure, use actual data and facts to learn the we are NOT living in some biblical "last days". Things have gotten remarkably better as man has progressed in knowledge. For example, watch this cartoon explaining how war is on the decline..

Read The Better Angels of Our Nature by Steven Pinker

Another great source is the youtube series debunking 1914 being the start of the last days.

Another way to clear out the cobwebs is to read and listen to exiting stories. Here are some resources:

https://leavingjw.org

Here is a post with links to a bunch of podcasts interviewing JWs who've left

Here's another bunch of podcasts about JWs

Here is a great book from Psychotherapist and former JW Bonnie Zieman - Exiting the JW Cult: A Helping Handbook

I wish you the best. There is a whole world of legitimate information out there based on actual evidence that you can use to become a more knowledgeable person.

You may still wonder how you can be a good human without "the truth." Here is a good discussion on how one can be good without god. --Replace where he talks about hell with armageddon, and heaven with paradise--

To go further down the rabbit hole, watch this series.

Here's a nice series debunking most creationist "logic".

Start to help yourself begin to live a life where, as Matt Dillahunty puts it, you'll "believe as many true things, and as few false things as possible."

Here's another side of the coin. Not necessarily to drag you out of the cult, but just some very awesome, beautiful truths. If you've seen me post this before, i apologize. I don't like to assume everyone reads every thread.

Take some time to learn about the history of the bible. For example, you can take the Open Yale Courses on Religious Studies for free.

Read Who Wrote the Bible by Richard Elliott Friedman

Also read A History of God by Karen Armstrong

Next, learn some actual science. For example - spoiler alert: evolution is true. Visit Berkeley's excellent Understanding Evolution Website.. Or, if you're pressed for time, watch this cartoon.

Read Why Evolution is True by Jerry Coyne

Read The Greatest Show on Earth by Richard Dawkins

Learn about the origin of the universe. For example, you could read works by Stephen Hawking

Read A Briefer History of Time by Stephen Hawking

Learn about critical thinking from people like Michael Shermer, and how to spot logical fallacies.


For good measure, use actual data and facts to learn the we are NOT living in some biblical "last days". Things have gotten remarkably better as man has progressed in knowledge. For example, watch this cartoon explaining how war is on the decline..

Read The Better Angels of Our Nature by Steven Pinker

Another great source is the youtube series debunking 1914 being the start of the last days.

I wish you the best. There is a whole world of legitimate information out there based on actual evidence that you can use to become a more knowledgeable person.

You may still wonder how you can be a good human without "the truth." Here is a good discussion on how one can be good without god. --Replace where he talks about hell with armageddon, and heaven with paradise--

Start to help yourself begin to live a life where, as Matt Dillahunty puts it, you'll "believe as many true things, and as few false things as possible."

Hello and welcome! Indoctrination in most cults can leave a person bitter about the world around them. Learning the actual facts about reality, the universe, and humanity is a good way to counter those negative feelings in my experience. Not sure how much of this applies to you, but here are my recommendations for de-indoctrinating yourself:

Take some time to learn about the history of the bible. For example, you can take the Open Yale Courses on Religious Studies for free.

Read Who Wrote the Bible by Richard Elliott Friedman

Also read A History of God by Karen Armstrong

Watch this talk from Sam Harris where he explains why "free will" is likely an illusion, which debunks the entire premise of "the fall of man" as presented by most Christian religions.

Watch this video on the Cordial Curiosity channel that teaches how the "Socratic Method" works, which essentially is a way to question why we believe what we believe. Do we have good reasons to believe them? If not, should we believe them?

Watch this video by Theramin Trees that explains why we fall for the beliefs of manipulative groups in the first place.

This video explains why and how childhood indoctrination works, for those of us born-in to a high-control group.

Another great source is this youtube series debunking 1914 being the start of the last days.

Next, learn some science. For example - spoiler alert: evolution is true. Visit Berkeley's excellent Understanding Evolution Website. Or, if you're pressed for time, watch this cartoon.

Read Why Evolution is True by Jerry Coyne.

Read The Greatest Show on Earth by Richard Dawkins.

Watch this series where Aron Ra explains in great detail how all life is connected in a giant family tree.

Learn about the origin of the universe. For example, you could read A Briefer History of Time by Stephen Hawking.

Learn about critical thinking from people like [Michael Shermer] (http://www.ted.com/talks/michael_shermer_on_believing_strange_things?language=en), and how to spot logical fallacies.

For good measure, use actual data and facts to learn the we are NOT living in some biblical "last days". Things have gotten remarkably better as man has progressed in knowledge. For example, watch this cartoon explaining how war is on the decline.

Read The Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined by Steven Pinker.

Watch this Ted Talk by Hans Rosling, the late Swedish Statistician, where he shows more evidence that the world is indeed becoming a better place, and why we tend to wrongly convince ourselves otherwise.

I wish you the best. There is a whole world of legitimate information out there based on actual evidence that you can use to become a more knowledgeable person.

You may still wonder how you can be a good human without "the truth." Here is a good discussion on how one can be good without god. --Replace where he talks about hell with armageddon, and heaven with paradise--

Start to help yourself begin to live a life where, as Matt Dillahunty puts it, you'll "believe as many true things, and as few false things as possible."

Awesome, it's great you're so proud of her!

Haha knowledge that leads to everlasting boredom! Book studies were the worst, I always felt super obligated to study extra hard because there were so few people that often nobody would answer!

Don't be so sure that your family will keep abandoning you, it's possible sure, but there's always hope! Often they're surprised that you can leave the witnesses and live a normal, or even better than normal life (of course there's always the "blessed by satan" get out clause) but they do expect people who leave to get aids and die from a heroin overdose.

It's easy to prove them wrong! Either way though, you have your own family to look out for and you can learn what not to do!

On to the suggested reading. I've mentioned many on here before but I don't expect everyone to be aware of it all so here goes:

Reading (I have a kindle and love reading, but they're all available for ebook and in paperback)

• Michael Shermer's Why People Believe Weird Things: Pseudoscience, Superstition, and Other Confusions of Our Time and The Believing Brain: From Ghosts and Gods to Politics and Conspiracies---How We Construct Beliefs and Reinforce Them as Truths these books really really helped me comprehend how I allowed myself to be fooled and that I can learn from my mistakes
  
• Richard Dawkins - The greatest show on earth and Coyne's Why evolution is true concreted the fact that the earth wasn't made and that animals didn't magically appear
  
• Carl Sagan's Demon Haunted World - it is a bit similar to shermers books, but a great read nonetheless, Sagan has an amazing awe at the universe and it's beautiful to read!
  
• Christopher Hitchens - God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything This book is by far among my favorites but it has a more aggressive tone, which is why I wouldn't start with it. Hitchens was awesome, even though I didn't agree with everything he said.
  
  Web
  
  
• JWFacts, of course...an invaluable site but it WILL make you mad
  
• Bad astronomy - add it to your RSS reader, often breathtaking, and generally about space
  
• Jerry Coyne's Why Evolution is True blog - science and politics
  
  
  Pocasts
  
  (all on iTunes etc, i like them because I can listen at work or download to my phone)
  
  
• The skeptic's guide to the universe it's intelligent, they discuss science and science news and skepticism and I always learn something
  
• Dogma debate just great, lots of debates with christians of various kinds and you can hear how both sides present their arguments
  
• Rationally speaking you said philosophy is of interest, if so this is a must!!!
  
• Cognitive dissonance - they are angry they talk news and politics and religion, it's very funny, informative and irreverent
  
• Caustic soda just a generally awesome science / history / factual podcast
  
  
  That's about it for now, if you soak all that in / want more / have suggestions let me know, and I'd love to hear what you think! :)
  
  

>she shrugs me off and tells me that Christmas is miserable because p. Which is true

Ah, no, it's NOT true. That's just more cult bullsh*t to keep people from spending money on themselves & their loved ones, & giving it to the cult instead.

Seriously, that's the main reason Rutherford forbade Christmas for JWs. Never mind that whole "pagan origins" crap; the bible itself is thoroughly pagan, which you'll find out if you read Mark S. Smith's "The Early History of God - Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel" - you can preview it here:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Early-History-God-Biblical/dp/080283972X

His book gives bible book, chapter & verse where you can see (in many English bible translations) where the old Canaanite & other Mediterranean influences still exist in the bible.

He's written several books; I'd recommend checking his other books out, too.

Anyway, I was celebrating Christmas until I was 5 years old (when my idiot father joined the damned cult - in the 1950's) & didn't get out until I was 30 years old, so from that point on I've celebrated Christmas like gangbusters! It gets a little lonely here, too, as I chose never to have children due to my hateful JW parents' treatment (I was very afraid I'd treat my kids the way they'd treated me) & that I couldn't stand the thought of dealing with dirty diapers...

Anyway, my never-a-JW second husband might as well BE a Jehovah's Witness - he's misogynistic, controlling, doesn't bother celebrating ANY holidays (largely because he's cheap - which gives insight into the real reason the money-grubbers at the Watchtower Society banned the holidays), so I have to celebrate Christmas by myself at my house. Most of the time he doesn't even help me put up the outside lights.

But it's still VERY worthwhile to celebrate Christmas! Gives me a warm glow inside, seeing all the pretty twinkling colored lights against the snow; smelling gingerbread & cookies & making gingerbread houses & giving them to friends, wrapping presents, some of which I've made myself.

When you get ready to celebrate the holidays, remember a few tips...

1. It's about the joy you'll share, not how many presents you can give or whether you've got the most lights, the prettiest tree, the most hand-made projects completed.
   
   
2. ALWAYS SHOP THE AFTER-CHRISTMAS SALES, especially for next year's lights (LED are best - safest, & you can connect MULTIPLE sets without concern of overheating & blown fuses), wrapping paper, bows, and so on.
   
   
3. If you're going to be shopping for someone else, this is what I would suggest - & it's worked VERY well for me & my in-laws (despite my Scrooge husband). During the year pick out 3 - 4 items from catalogs or online sites, then email your selection to them & have them do the same for you. GET THIS DONE BY October! Then you pick one from their 3-4 items, buy it for them, & they do the same for you. It means you'll be "surprised" - not knowing exactly which item you'll receive - but you'll ALSO know that it's something you really wanted.
   
   
4. If you buy live trees, then purchase from places that KEEP THE TREES IN A SHADED PLACE. Do NOT purchase from grocery stores OR tree lots! Those places allow the sun to dry out the trees & by the time the holidays are over, you may have nothing more than kindling sitting in your living room.
   
   Live trees are the most ecologically-responsible choice, believe it or not. I was all set to purchase a lovely artificial tree when I typed in that question ("what is the most ecologically responsible type of Christmas tree?"), expecting the answer to be an artificial one.
   
   Well, guess what? LIVE trees support small farmers! The areas in which they're grown function as greenbelt areas for wildlife, & when the tree is disposed of, it is turned into mulch for city landscaping.
   
   On the other hand, artificial trees are made from PVC - & the artificial trees also drop needles, although not at the rate of live ones. BUT those artificial needles (since they're made from PVC) are poisonous, so if you do go with an artificial tree make sure you vacuum up any of those PVC needles AND keep the pets & children from chewing on the lower artificial branches. Live tree needles also present a sticking or poking hazard, but they aren't poisonous.
   
   Hope this helps...

I’ve said this many times on this sub, but being with a PIMI spouse is a special kind of hell. It’s almost like you can never truly leave the JWs because you’ll always be attached through them. It can be maddening at times especially when they slip into their cult personality and behave passively aggressively towards you.

One thing that helped me early on that may be worth your time, is reading a book called In Faith and In Doubt. https://www.amazon.com/Faith-Doubt-Religious-Believers-Nonbelievers/dp/0814433723

I read this when I was thinking of a way to possibly remained married despite our differences. Surprisingly, the book does mention JW marriages. Sadly, most divided JW marriages don’t work because of the nature of the religion, which is mentioned in the book and what we all know too well. The book didn’t help me make the decision to stay or to leave. Only you can decide that. But it did give me some perspective and tips on what I could do in my marriage if I chose to stick with it.

I agree with the other poster who said being married to a PIMI is a long road. It’s been 3 years since I stopped all activity and I still go back and forth about if I should continue. One thing my therapist says is that it’s hard to remain in a relationship where you don’t share or respect each other’s core values. JWs do not and will not respect the decision to leave the faith no matter how much they say they do. And exJWs do not respect the values of the JW religion. It’s a huge foundational conflict. This kind of situation requires a considerable amount of compromise by both parties. The issue is is that many PIMI will not compromise and require the POMO spouse to jump through hoops and demand a certain level respect and allowances and not reciprocate. This, as you know, can be emotionally exhausting.

My advice to you is to decide what you can and can not tolerate. Where do you see yourself in 5 years? Can you get there in this marriage? Can you truly be happy in the relationship or are you settling? Are you still sharing a life together or are you simply tolerating each others’? Do you want children? How would you feel about them being at least partially raised as JWs?

I do wish you good luck. I can completely relate to this struggle.

I will give my response to your post. I read the other comments, thinking that I would just add to what they said without repeating what had already been said, but realized that then my own comment would become fragmented if I took that into account, so I will ignore what others have said.

 

> I lied to the elders by saying I read it when I got baptised after they asked if I read the bible everyday.

I think this is a very common lie. I don't think many elders have read the Bible either.

In fact, every single time some Jehovah's Witness say "I know this is the truth, because I have investigated the evidence myself" they are lying.

Another very common lie: "I don't masturbate"

The truth is, almost everyone masturbates, most people have not read the Bible, and every single one that has actually investigated the evidence for themself has left the religion, at least mentally.

 

> I’m a slow reader (I think I might have adhd. Should I see a doctor?) and I’m up to Genesis 3.

Going to a doctor could be a good idea, perhaps. I don't know the extent of your problem.

Personally, when I haven't been reading anything for a long time, in the way I read the Bible, then it will be slower. But then if I keep at it for a few days or a week I will speed up. Sometimes if I read two hours straight, the first hour I will read with difficulty, but the second hour I read much better. Another thing that could speed up your reading is if you don't speak the words, neither out loud nor in your head, because it takes time to "pronounce" the words. But reading text without even pronouncing it mentally is not something everyone knows how to do, and I don't know how to teach it.

Though, even if you only read the text in the same speed as you speak normally, you will still easily read through the Bible in a year, unless your life is busy.

 

> I’m very very confused about Genesis 1 and 2 so far as it seems like it contradicts itself so much.

My understanding of the scientific explanation is that Genesis 2 was written first by one author, and later Genesis 1 was written by another author and added to the beginning of Genesis, and the theologies of those authors are different.

The first author, who wrote Genesis 2 about Adam and Eve, thought, according to my own understanding of the text, that humans were first created as mere animals, and then they gained "knowledge of good and bad" and became more than animals. This was why they were naked without feeling any shame, because they were just as any other animals. The author was a child of his time and culture, and thought it was uncivilized to be naked, unaware that it is a cultural idea not universal to humans.

This might also explain why the snake could speak: the author might have thought that as Adam and Eve were just mere animals, they could speak the same language as animals. Though there are other possible explanations.

Christians usually describe the events in Eden as "the Fall", but this is not supported by the text. Instead, it is "the Ascension". The two trees represent two qualities of gods that set gods apart from animals. The "knowledge of good and bad" represents the author's understanding of the mental difference between humans and animals, which he believed originally only belonged to the gods.

Jehovah lied to Adam and Eve about the tree, essentially saying that it was poisonous, to keep them from eating and ascending to the level of the gods. The snake revealed the truth, and they ate and became as gods. Jehovah felt threatened by this, and expelled them from Eden to prevent them from gaining the second quality of gods: eternal life, by eating from the tree of life.

This was the author's explanation why humans are partly divine, by having knowledge as gods, and partly animal, by being mortal as animals.

The second author, who wrote Genesis 1, disagreed. He thought God created the humans in the image of God from the outset. There was never any time when humans were only mere animals, and no "Ascension". There was never a "tree of knowledge".

The second author plagiarized a pre-existing creation myth, and made some changes. One of the changes was that he removed a battle between God and the cosmic waters, because according to the second author, God is omnipotent. The original audience knew the pre-existing myth, and could notice the difference, but most modern readers don't know about the pre-existing story.

Genesis 1:1-3 should read something like

> When God began to create sky and land—the land being unformed and void, with darkness over the surface of Tehom and a wind from God sweeping over the water—God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.

In the original story, there was a battle between the gods and Tehom. In Hebrew, "Tehom" is a proper noun, a name, even though most translations hide this.

The Watchtower Society brags about not hiding the fact that "YHWH" is a name, and transcribes it as "Jehovah", but they are still guilty of hiding the name "Tehom" and other names in the Bible such as "El". (Also, as others have stated, the Watchtower inserts the name "Jehovah" into the Bible where "YHWH" is not found, like in the New Testament.)

This is just how I understand it, though it is also based on what I have heard from scholars. I may have gotten details wrong.

When I was PIMI and read it not too carefully, I thought that the story about Adam and Eve "zoomed in" on the sixth day of creation. Thus, Genesis 1 described the creation of heaven and earth and humans, while Genesis 2 took a closer look at the creation of humans. Now I don't believe this is correct.

If one tries to read Genesis as a single coherent story, to the limited degree it is possible, then this is probably how I would read it today: First God created sky, land (a flat earth in an earth-sized snow globe), and humans in six (literal) days, then he rested on the seventh day, then after an unspecified time, Jehovah created Adam, that started out as a mere animal, but then ascended. Thus Adam and Eve were not the first humans, though it seems the first humans were gone, because there were no one to tilt the ground.

 

> Anyway, what translation should I use? ... Of course, there’s the King Lebron James Version, the American standard version and a bunch of others too. I want an actual physical copy of the bible too, I’m a young person but I’m so sick of looking at technology all the time so I’d prefer an actual bible. I also don’t want a biased translation or one that may have just added or removed things from the bible where they see fit. I want a bible as close to the original texts as possible.

I like the New Revised Standard Version (NRSV) (specifically as The New Oxford Annotated Bible, 5th ed.) and the New Jewish Publication Society's Tanakh (NJPS) (as The Jewish Study Bible, 2nd ed.).

However, there is no translation without bias, or even without mistranslations. At least not one of the whole Bible in a single volume.

But there are definitively better ones and worse ones.

Some things that speak in favour of NRSV:

• NRSV is an Ecumenical translation, involving Protestants, Catholics, and Orthodox, and the Old Testament involves a Jewish translator as well. This means that when they disagree about the interpretation, they tend to stick to the more literal reading that they all agree on. It still has bias, but not as much as translations made by a single denomination.
  
  
• NRSV is created by non-fundamentalists, which means a higher acceptance of a scientific understanding of the text.
  
  
• NRSV is on the spectrum towards a formal translation, which means it is closer to a word-for-word translation. This means it has less smooth English, but also less room for bias.
  
  
• NRSV is recommended by academics, both by secular scholars and non-fundamentalist Christian scholars.
  
  When I first started researching different translations to decide which ones I should get, I thought "Using 'Jehovah' or 'Yahweh' is superior to using 'the LORD', so I will start looking at translations that use 'Jehovah' and 'Yahweh'", but I soon realized that the winner was NRSV despite not using 'Jehovah/Yahweh'.
  
  The Watchtower brags about getting "YHWH" right, but the name "YHWH" is only about 1% of the total number of words. Getting 1% of the words right, while being dodgy about the remaining 99% isn't that impressive.
  
  Sometimes the gender neutral language of NRSV is criticized. An example of the gender neutral language is that in the New Testament the phrase "brothers and sisters" is used where many mainstream translations use "brothers". This isn't necessarily wrong, because the Greek word could refer to an all-male group or a mixed gender group. But some have said that NRSV occasionally use gender neutral language where the intended meaning is not gender neutral.

I'd recommend staying away from Christopher Hitchens until you've eased into Atheist literature a bit more. Even though I'm an Atheist, I find that his writing, although well thought out and effective, is a bit more combative and condescending than I would like.

That said, a book that I found interesting (well, the first half. I never read the second half) was by Karl Giberson, who holds a PhD in Physics.

Before anyone says anything, I would like to say that, although Evolution is a scientific fact, we as humans still don't know how it got started. That said, I don't see any proof that a god(s) or more advanced intellect had any part in creating life on Earth. I'm perfectly content with our existence being a happy, torturous, blissful, agonizing one.

Dan Carlin’s Hardcore History available on iTunes podcasts as well.

Steven Pinker’s book The Better Angels of our Nature is a fantastic total annihilation of Watchtower’s constant fearmongering about how much violence there is in the world and how it’s only getting worse.

Basically anything by Richard Dawkins is evolutionary biology gold, highly recommend his book The Greatest Show on Earth

Neil deGrasse Tyson recently released a great book Astrophysics for People in a Hurry that gives so many mind-blowing facts about our universe in quick-to-read fashion. His podcast StarTalk Radio is fascinating and fun as well.

Bart D Ehrman is a fantastic biblical scholar, his book Forged examines the Gospel writers and why many are not who the religious believe them to be.

I listening to http://www.amazon.com/Sapiens-A-Brief-History-Humankind/dp/0062316095 which i'm pretty sure you would like.

One point that was of interest to me is that the whole point of science could be said to be the acceptance of ignorance.

During the dark ages even up to Christopher Columbus most people believed that old sacred texts contained all knowledge that would ever be needed.

As soon as the idea became popular that it was important to admit not knowing and just looking and seeing where the evidence leads that real progress happened.

If you only pick and choose evidence that supports your preconceived conclusions knowledge stops.

The fundamental problem is the idea that the Bible is true.

I’ve been in a similar situation with my parents (very toxic). I cut them off for a while as protection which is very different than a perceived moral shunning. To shun someone because they are gay or an act in privacy is not hurting someone. The irony is that shunning usually targets very loving people. There is a great book I suggest called Emotional Blackmail. I highly suggest reading to help sort things out and understand the difference between having to protect yourself from shunning do to a difference in thought. Good luck!
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0060928972/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_t1_fLlsDb0MNQXDS

If you want something related, but not JW specific, these might interest you:

"The Origin of Satan: How Christians Demonized Jews, Pagans, and Heretics"
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0679731180/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_WJCDDbMAJFDPK

And

"Forged: Writing in the Name of God--Why the Bible's Authors Are Not Who We Think They Are"
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0062012622/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_KMCDDbAAJ0GGN

I found them interesting and they do tie indoctrination, particularly since JW are big on the Satan Concept and Paul's teachings, most of Paul's books of the bible were not written by Paul. I might be biased in my enjoyment of these books. I do not believe in Satan, I think it is just a boogeyman concept to instill fear. I also think Paul/Simon was a sack of shit, but it seems as though most of the books attributed to him were written in his name well after his death. None of this is groundbreaking, it is pretty well established and accepted biblical history, but it is well written and easy to follow.

I bought three translations, two in English:

The New Oxford Annotated Bible with Apocrypha (NRSV) (I bought the 4th ed, but I linked the 5th ed)

The Jewish Study Bible, 2nd ed. (NJPS)

Then I have two different editions of the Masoretic text, based on the Leningrad Codex.

Then I have The Kingdom Interlinear, which despite being published by the Watchtower is kept together with the non-WT Bibles due to it containing the Greek text.

These I will probably keep for a long time, as the Bible is historically a very important work, unless they are replaced with better alternatives.

Then I keep a small reference library of WT stuff, which includes a few versions of NWT, the Reasoning book, Insight, Daniel's Prophecy, etc. All of it I got from WT while PIMI/PIMO, which means that no JW can question the authenticity of the information in it.

When I want to know what the Bible says, I look it up in my three non-WT Bibles and compare them, and tentatively accept whatever they all agree on while remaining agnostic about whatever they don't agree on.

I am also in the process of reading through the Bible, to learn what it says without bias.

For anyone interested, this TED Talk is awesome. It talks about turning on genes in chickens to bring back some of their dinosaur traits.

EDIT: On an ever so slightly related note, I am currently reading Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind and it's fascinating. It points out how what differentiates homo sapien from other species (there are around 15 in all) was the cognitive ability to use fiction in everyday lives.

Typical primates stay in groups of a few dozen or so, and they all know who they can and can trust. Any groups larger than that tend to have problems because there is no way to control the group.

The ability to create mythologies and stories (religion) allowed for far greater control of much larger groups of people because they collectively believe in the entity (whether good or bad) on a collective level where no one has proof of the story or myth, but everyone around you believes so it's all good.

Where to begin?! Lol welcome.

At this point there’s quite a few ways to disbelieve the JW doctrine. Many people will fill you in I’m sure and debate over doubts here within the comment section. If you were really interested in knowing. I’d suggest:

John Cedars

Start from the very beginning if you’d like to view all the doubts via video format. There’s a lot of substance within that channel so I’d def start there. If your into podcasts I’d suggest:

This JW Life

Shunned

The Prodigal Boys

The Daily Dose

Book References:

Crisis Of Conscience

The Reluctant Apostate

Combating With Cult Mind Control

There are a number of Sumerian and Babylonian sacred texts here. In particular, the enuma elish has some interesting parallels to Genesis. One in particular - the creation of the world was the work of one god (marduk), but the creation of man was a joint effort between all the gods (the Sumerian creation myth is similar). Have a look at Genesis 1, and note where the text switches from singular to plural. Also - according to Mesopotamian mythology, humans were created to do the work that the gods were tired of doing. Thus they were expected to work the fields and engage in general labor. Have a look at Genesis 2:15 for a parallel.

I recommend these books for a deeper study:

Stories from Ancient Canaan

The Early History of God

The Origins of Biblical Monotheism

The Evolution of God

Congratulations!
Since I just recently was looking into what's out there to help parents raise kids to think critically, I'll pass on some of the books I found that you might find helpful:

http://www.amazon.com/Magic-Reality-Know-Whats-Really/dp/1451675046/

http://www.amazon.com/Raising-Freethinkers-Practical-Parenting-Beyond/dp/0814410960/

http://www.grandmotherfish.com

Buddhism seems to have a lot to say on consciousness and experience.

Sam Harris wrote a book you might enjoy, I'll link you to it. I really enjoyed it a lot. And he includes a lot of information on meditation I thought was interesting.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1451636024/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1465048724&sr=8-1&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=sam+harris+waking+up&dpPl=1&dpID=51o78eeqqYL&ref=plSrch

James Penton has written a couple of excellent books:

https://www.amazon.ca/Jehovahs-Witnesses-Third-Reich-Persecution/dp/0802089275

https://www.amazon.ca/Apocalypse-Delayed-Story-Jehovahs-Witnesses/dp/0802079733

And for Orwellian fans, Gary and Heather Botting's book is a classic:

https://www.amazon.ca/Orwellian-World-Jehovahs-Witnesses/dp/0802065457

Botting also has some great research published about the WTs legal history. Check his website for more.

Edit to add: all of the above books should be available for borrow through the public library system

Hello,

One of the first books I read after deciding to leave JW was God is not Not Great by Christopher Hitchens https://www.amazon.com/God-Not-Great-Religion-Everything/dp/0446697966. It was a great reading, especially because it was the first time I ever read anything like this, a straight forward attack on religions with reason as a base.

I like NRSV (NOAB), NJPS (JSB), and NABRE. I recommend getting all three. In addition to being good translations, they contain lots of scholarly notes.

\ I just saw there's a new fifth edition of NOAB.

Funny enough there is a book about JWs with almost your exact wording. "I'm Perfect, Youre doomed"

To help your wife:

https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/helping-someone-leave.php


To help you:

https://www.amazon.com/Challenge-Heal-After-Leaving-High-Control/dp/153531382X

Emotional Blackmail: When the People in Your Life Use Fear, Obligation, and Guilt to Manipulate You

>A practical guide to better communication that will break the blackmail cycle for good, by one of the nation's leading therapists, Susan Forward.
>
>"If you really loved me..."
>
>"After all I've done for you..."
>
>"How can you be so selfish..."
>
>Do any of the above sound familiar? They're all examples of emotional blackmail, a powerful form of manipulation in which people close to us threaten to punish us for not doing what they want. Emotional blackmailers know how much we value our relationships with them. They know our vulnerabilities and our deepest secrets. They are our mothers, our partners, our bosses and coworkers, our friends and our lovers. And no matter how much they care about us, they use this intimate knowledge to give themselves the payoff they want: our compliance.
>
>Susan Forward knows what pushes our hot buttons. Just as John Gray illuminates the communications gap between the sexes in Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus, and Harriet Lerner describes an intricate dynamic in The Dance of Anger, so Susan Forward presents the anatomy of a relationship damaged by manipulation, and gives readers an arsenal of tools to fight back.

Staying in could help your brotherover time.
Sounds like this mother who got reinstated to get her daughter out. Then both faded...

https://www.amazon.com/Going-Undercover-Rescue-My-Daughter/dp/0941813053

Did you know Amazon will donate a portion of every purchase if you shop by going to smile.amazon.com instead? Over $50,000,000 has been raised for charity - all you need to do is change the URL!

Here are your smile-ified links:

Karl Giberson

---

^^i'm ^^a ^^friendly bot

Has anybody read this?

I really enjoyed Kyria Abrams' memoir I'm Perfect, You're Doomed.

Waking Up: A Guide to Spirituality Without Religion - Sam Harris

https://www.amazon.com/Waking-Up-Spirituality-Without-Religion/dp/1451636024

Also excellent.

In case you haven't read it, I really enjoyed Waking Up.

This is a great book. The preface alone says wonders!

Sign of the Last Days, When? By Carl Jonnson

Here's chapter 6 from it: Chapter 6

I am really sorry you are in a dark place at the moment. I feel being part of this community is like a brace I can lean against when I'm feeling too weak to stand on my own. I hope you can find some relief here.

May I make some recommendations for your consideration? They are not specific to JWs, but to high control groups:

The Challenge to Heal: After Leaving a High-Control Group

https://freedomofmind.com/bite-model/

Don't thank me! I compiled it from work that others did.

My sources:

JW Facts

• http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/607-587.php
  
  JWN
  
  
• http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/55372/586-587-k-approach-no-vat4956-ptolemy-josephus-needed?page=1&size=20
  
  
• http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/88280/allymoms-k-607-vs-587-now-available-wt-quotes-website
  
  And of course The Gentile Times Reconsidered by Carl O. Jonsson
  
  

This is one excellent way out of the JWs, and it is a morally uplifting one at that. When the person is reduced to arguing that the world is awful just to maintain 'hope', the battle is 90% over. Pinkers' book is highly recommended. Best $20 I ever spent.

As a child who was raised with an unbelieving father I have a bit to add. Seems you are doing a bang up job so far! I would like to strongly emphasize him doing a lot of extracurricular activities via school. Sports, chess club, whatever it is! Its extremely important for him to have a rich social life outside of the borg. If he has plenty of worldly friends who he gets to visit regularly then I think, combined with your influence, there is no way he will take it seriously as he gets older.

My personal experience is that I always had some worldly associates but the association was strictly monitored and limited by my mom. But, none of my family except my mother are witnesses so I had quite a lot of "worldly" influence. The only thing I didn't do was the extracurricular stuff, which I sort of regret.

The best piece of advice I have seen regarding raising kids is "teach them HOW to think, not WHAT to think." And you seem to already be trying to do that. If you can expose him to many different types of people, beliefs, and experiences, he is going to understand that all these religions are different versions of the same thing, and that just because someone is different than you doesn't mean they are bad people.

A book I bought when my son was born, which I recommend to any exjw parent: Raising Freethinkers: Practical Parenting Beyond Belief

"For almost thirty years, M. James Penton’s Apocalypse Delayed has been the definitive scholarly study of this religious movement. As a former member of the sect, Penton offers a comprehensive overview of the Jehovah's Witnesses."

https://www.amazon.com/Apocalypse-Delayed-Story-Jehovahs-Witnesses/dp/1442616059

I am looking at it now bloody hell that's expensive though, probably WT buying up every available copy and burying them in the desert lol

I will try and pick up a pdf somewhere...grrrr yet another book I have to plough through like CoC :O)

edit: Just found it wow 600+ pages though this is going to be a long week :(

Wikipedia yahweh has some info. This book has references to his historical info sources. : http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/080283972X?pc_redir=1411222551&robot_redir=1

but look at that price for this book

Price

https://www.amazon.com/Going-Undercover-Rescue-My-Daughter/dp/0941813053

https://www.amazon.com/Im-Perfect-Youre-Doomed-Upbringing/dp/1416556869

Bonnie has updated the book to be more inclusive of people exiting various high control organizations.

Here

Now officially available in e-book format for Kindle at Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/Combating-Cult-Mind-Control-Best-Selling-ebook/dp/B00V9DU340/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1427482621&sr=1-2&keywords=Combating+Cult+Mind+Control

Huh. There's a Kindle edition offered on the US version of Amazon's site.

sigh throwing a pile of books at me instead of discussing the points kind of kills the discussion.

May I simply invite you to read a few books too then.

http://www.talkorigins.org/ - for general debunking of various evolutiony topics creationists cling to.

Two great books on biology and how it doesn't support god.

https://www.amazon.com/Blind-Watchmaker-Evidence-Evolution-Universe/dp/0393351491
https://www.amazon.com/Selfish-Gene-Popular-Science/dp/0192860925

And hey, everyone should read at last one Hitchen book.

https://www.amazon.com/God-Not-Great-Religion-Everything/dp/0446697966/ref=pd_sbs_14_t_0?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=YRA4TF2KH358H7VAVG9X

I've been saying this for a while now, but I've found that most thorough, scholarly work for the complete history of the JW's is:

Apocalypse Delayed, by James Penton

https://www.amazon.com/Apocalypse-Delayed-Story-Jehovahs-Witnesses/dp/1442616059

Yeah right! Then why was the GD "generation" brought up so GD much before 1995? and it was always explained to be a "literal" one.

Composite Sign my ass. - Read: Sign of the Last Days When by Carl O. Jonsson https://www.amazon.com/Sign-Last-Days-When-Jonsson/dp/0914675095

Here's a pdf https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_uDezmEjpN7b1BPdHdybENDRkk

Great Book! Mandatory reading for any and all in this group! ;-p I'm kidding of course, but really, it's so eye-opening.

Not So Shameful Plug

And Amazon of course for a dead tree version:

https://www.amazon.com/Crisis-Conscience-Raymond-Franz/dp/0914675044

https://www.amazon.com/Crisis-Conscience-Raymond-Franz/dp/0914675230/ref=dp_ob_title_bk

I've said it before, everyone needs to pick up this book. Sam Harris has an extremely rational approach to meditation and makes scientific arguments in favor of it. Meditation has helped me cope with anxiety attacks and feelings of worthlessness.