(Part 2) Top products from r/exmormon

Congratulations on reaching a compromise between the two of you. It's a great start.

There are lots of resources out there to learn about world religions. Many are tailored to educating children. There are sites with interactive activities, like this for example:

http://www.hindukids.org/index.html

There are sites that have lists of books to look into reading, I'm sure there are DVDs out there too. Think 'Living Scriptures' for non-LDS. One example might be:

http://www.buddhistchildrensbooks.com

Amazon even has books geared towards kids that introduce world religions, such as:

http://www.amazon.com/What-Do-You-Believe-Publishing/dp/0756672287

Hit up Google and start searching for kid-friendly ways to introduce different paths and belief systems. I'm not sure where you live, and I know you mentioned that you don't want to start going to another church regularly, but Utah has a large number of non-Christian worshippers. There are a few beautiful Hindu temples in Utah (one in South Jordan, another in Spanish Fork), a few Buddhist temples (SLC for example). There is even a strong Islam presence in Utah. If you're trying to avoid worship maybe check into activities or events each community has which are open to the public.

Where ever you live, just start with Google.

Your children are young enough that I'd imagine your time could be spent just teaching ideas that encourage them to think for themselves. You could choose to talk with them about being spiritual instead of religious. Its a great thing when you're discussing religious concepts with kids - you don't have to know the answers they may ask. It's a great time to introduce ideas such as "Some people believe... others believe... but no one knows for certain. What do you think?" The fact that Daddy doesn't know the answer reinforces the concept that these are all mythical/philosophical concepts instead of hard truths.

Talk about being grateful for ___ in your life (such as being grateful for our health, grateful for the ability to have food) instead of thankful (which often refers to thanking god for things). This can also lead into discussions that not everyone in the world enjoys such things we may take for granted.

This website has a few great ideas of things to do with children to teach spiritual ideas instead of religious traditions:

http://www.parenting.com/article/teach-spirituality-kids

I think you're on a good path in that you want to teach your children to learn about other ways of doing things. It can only benefit them. Good luck!!

The existentialism is real in the wake of losing your worldview. All the pep-talks in the world about "go live your life, the world is amazing!" meant nothing to me. I didn't know how to move forward. For some of us, the loss is huge and the existential dread (with its accompanying anxiety and depression) is absolutely consuming.

Ultimately, the study of philosophy and the nature of existence was the way out and the door to a meaningful post-Mormon life for me. I read and studied a bunch of stuff, but the below list was some of the most helpful. I ultimately chose to go with a personalized form of stoicism to fill the void left by Mormonism. Others prefer secular Buddhism, etc. If you still like Jesus as a moral guide (like I do in a lot of ways), this is a great short podcast about Jesus as a moral philosopher.

Anyway, I found the below very helpful in my transition:

• Philosphize This! podcast. Start with episode 1 and just listen all the way through. It's great and he even mentions Mormonism a few times.
  
  
• The Power of Now by Tolle.
  
  
• The Happiness Trap by Harris.
  
  
• Man's Search for Meaning by Frankl.
  
  
• Man's Search for Ultimate Meaning (A follow-on of above--focus on the later chapters in this book.)
  
  
• The Alchemist by Coelho.
  
  
• A New Earth by Tolle.
  
  
• A Confession by Tolstoy. Free download.
  
  
• What I Believe, also by Tolstoy and a follow-on to the above Tolstoy book. Free download at link if you look for it. Auido book here.
  
  If you're interested in stoic philosophy as a replacement for Mormonism:
  
  
• Start with this easy article for a nice overview. The rest of this blog can be helpful, too. For example, here's a great recent article.
  
  
• This book. It can be a bit long in places, but it's an easy read and gives an awesome overview.
  
  
• Meditations by Marcus Aurelius. The Audible version of this is really good, too, if you have a daily commute, etc.
  
   
  
  Finally, it gets better! Take it a day (or a month) at a time and keep searching and you'll eventually land in a good spot! Good luck, and stick with it!

Over the past several years I've personally gravitated toward a blend of stoicism and "secular Christianity." I know many others go the route of secular Buddhism (Noah Rasheta, who is also an exMo runs secularbuddhism.com which you might want to check out) and others (most?) simply go the route of ethical hedonism.

I personally gravitated toward stoicism because it isn't a religion and has no real religious underpinning. Instead, it's normally referred to as just a "philosophy of life." It has worked well for me as a backfill to religion. You'll also find that different people have different views of what it means to "practice" stoicism, so it's nice in that you can kind of adapt it to fit your personal preferences.

Here are some recommendations if you want to look into it:

• Start with this easy article for a nice overview. Then continue to read other articles on the How to be a Stoic blog. It's a great resource.
  
  
• I'd recommend this book as well. It can be a bit long in places, but it's an easy read and gives an awesome overview.
  
  
• Finally, you should also read Meditations by Marcus Aurelius. I have an audio version from Audible that's excellent and I enjoyed listening to it much more than reading it, but there are free copies all over the place to download and read in Kindle if you just Google it.
  
  Aside from stoicism, studying and learning about philosophy in general has been a huge cushion for me in dealing with the existential crisis that often follows losing belief in Mormonism. Google the Philosophize This! podcast and start at episode 1 if you're interested. It's great. I also really enjoy the Philosophy Bites podcast. Other than the above, the following were also very helpful to me in finding a approach to life without "God" and without religion:
  
  
• The Power of Now by Tolle.
  
  
• The Happiness Trap by Harris.
  
  
• Man's Search for Meaning by Frankl.
  
  
• Man's Search for Ultimate Meaning (A follow-on of above--focus on the later chapters in this book.)
  
  
• The Alchemist by Coelho.
  
  
• A New Earth by Tolle.
  
  
• A Confession by Tolstoy. Free download.
  
  
• What I Believe, also by Tolstoy and a follow-on to the above Tolstoy book. Free download at link if you look for it. Auido book here.
  
  All of the above combined with a few long years of figuring things out got me to a good place. But everyone's journey is different, so do what you think will work best for you...and good luck!
  
  
  

The Oxford Short Introductions Series has a great volume on Mormonism that covers the faith in a very even-handed and neutral manner. If you're pressed for time, this would probably be the best thing to read. The Dummies and Idiot's Guide are actually not that bad in their presentation of the faith; they're both by what would be termed "liberal Mormons" and do a pretty good job of being realistic in their presentation (though both still being very positive, of course, but they're not conversion texts).

To understand the different faiths in the Latter Day Saint movement you need to understand the history of the faith as so much of the faith claims are rooted in historical events. Books like Rough Stone Rolling and No Man Knows My History give a good overview of Joseph Smith's life. The upcoming Brigham Young biography by John Turner seems like it will also be a good source for information on Young's tenure as president of the Church as it will discuss some of the darker/stranger issues like blood atonement and Adam-God. If you want to go in depth on the history of the Temple ritual, I'd recommend Buerger's The Mysteries of Godliness.

The last information I would give is that most (but not all) books published by Christian publishers should probably be avoided. Nowadays most of them are factual in their content, but their presentation is not meant to provide an understanding of the LDS Church but rather is meant to provide a multiplicity of reasons not to associate with the faith. A few exceptions I'd say are most books by Sandra and Gerald Tanner, and By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus which is an amazing overview of Joseph's "Book of Abraham" and the history and implications of the papyri Smith used in producing it which were rediscovered in 1967 to the subtle consternation of the CHurch ever since.

If you haven't studied "anti-Mormon" sources, you can't claim you aren't any of those things, because that's part of it. The constant reminders to only get your information from the church. That is one of the biggest elements of indoctrination, brainwashing, and sheltering.

They're preventing you from doing thorough research and frankly, it's not our job to digest all of for you. The problems with the church are so numerous there is no way anyone is going to be able to lay them all out for you in a comment on a reddit post. Asking us to tell you why we left is not evidence you weren't indoctrinated if you refuse to go do the study yourself.

Most active members have no idea just how much information there is and that no, it is not spun. Here's a little bit of the history on why and how the real history the church is now trying to manage finally came out. There is a couple in Provo who have a Christian ministry basically dedicated to taking down the Mormon church. Around 1990 they published a pamphlet that talked about some serious stuff the vast majority of members didn't know, like Joseph's Smith polygamy. Normally the church wouldn't respond to these things, but they felt the claims were worrisome enough (getting questions from members) they needed to publish a response, so they invited two BYU historians into the archives (you know the ones in the mountain) to study ALL of the historical documents they had and write a refutation debunking the Tanner's claims.

For about two years Michael Quinn and Dan Vogel studied every document and took photos of each one, with the church's blessing. Problem was, not only did what they find back up the Tanner's claims, but the actual history was much worse (things like Polyandry). They did write a rebuttal, but it was rejected by the Q15 and they were told not to publish anything at all, ever. More than twenty years later the essays on lds.org the church finally published to at least be a little bit honest are right out of Vogel and Quinns essays. By being a little bit I mean, if you not only read the essays, but then follow the footnotes, well. It's not good. The Saints book is the same way. It doesn't out and out lie, but talk about out of context and leaving out very important information if it's too faith challenging. It's still not fully honest. Not even remotely. Shouldn't the church have to be as honest as they expect the membership?

Being historians, not publishing and keeping it all a secret didn't sit well with them and they published anyway. In fact, Dan Vogel made all those facsimiles of all those documents, thousands and thousands of them, available to any other scholar wanting to pour through them and publish their own findings. For their trouble they were excommunicated as part of the September Six (google it).

Many (maybe most on church history) of the anti-Mormon books out there directly source these documents and you can even get them yourself. Dan Vogel published all of them in several volumes called, "Early Mormon Documents." The goal was to publish all the source material he and Quinn had collected without editorial comment. I'm not sure how much more objective it can get or how any Mormon can claim the stacks of books that came out of these are not sourced or dishonest.

If you want a summary list of the major issues, and it's a long one, you should download the free pdf version of the CES letter on cesletter.org. Then read the rebuttals over on Fair Mormon. Then read the rebuttals to the rebuttals.

When I left, a nice summary didn't exist, so I had to read books and boy did I read a lot of them. I happened to start with Mormon Enigma: Emma Hale Smith, which is well sourced out of the RLDS archives, but I also read Grant Palmer's, An Insider's View of Mormon Origins. Incidentally, he was another BYU professor excommunicated for publishing the irrefutable truth. Keep in mind, these people were active members. They were not trying to tear down the church. They simply felt it was morally wrong to continue to have blatant and significant inaccuracies in teaching manuals, in conference talks, in Seminary, in well......everything.

My reading list (those I can remember at least):

Mormon Enigma: Emma Hale Smith

An Insider's View of Mormon Origins

Joseph Smith: The Making of a Prophet (A Biography)

No Man Knows My History: The Life of Joseph Smith

The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power

Mormon America: The Power and the Promise

If you still think everything other than what is directly published by the church are anti-Mormon lies or tricks, well I can help you there at too. How deep have you gotten into Journal of Discourses? It's almost worse than anything written by an anti-Mormon. So much worse than a couple of troublesome quotes. I also re-read the D&C while reading Teaching of the Prophet Joseph Smith in tandem. It was a lot harder to swallow that way to say the least and both of those are obviously considered faithful study.

​

If you want to claim you aren't brainwashed or indoctrinated you have to do the work. Saying "I posted on Reddit and no one convinced me," or the other favorite, "people much smarter than me have already studied all that and say its fine," are not valid arguments. They're lazy cop outs.

​

Good luck on your search for truth. I encourage you to study it out from ALL sources, including faithful sources you haven't yet studied.

​

edited to add: Forgot one of the most important. In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith

edited edited to add: If you want something a little more biased for the church you can even just read Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling. If you're going to read the D&C and Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith at the same time as I did, I recommend at least reading this one first. It's going to be much clearer if you've read at least one of the biographies and Rough Stone Rolling was published by Deseret Book.

Daymon Smith is the best you will find, especially if your friend is the brainy type. This series of interviews is long but worth the effort. Also, if your friend is patient, I would recommend they listen to the whole Mormon Stories interview with Daymon, episodes 149–52. Even though these interviews are six years old, they are still the best in-depth commentary on correlation. Daymon's writings, including Book of Mammon, were instrumental in my throwing the TSCC out of my life.

You might also recommend the chapter on correlation in Greg Prince's book, David O. McKay and the Rise of Modern Mormonism.

edit: Your friend may also be interested to know that these two sources—Daymon Smith and Greg Prince—approach the topic of correlation from a faithful yet analytical perspective. For another faithful/analytical perspective, I'd recommend reading Matt Bowman's chapter on correlation in this book, or this essay. PM me if you want pdfs of the chapters by Bowman and Prince.

Have been in the exact same boat and I feel like it took me a lot longer to work through it than most. Also went from being very focused to not being able to focus on anything at all, worried about my job performance, unable to get out of bed on weekends, etc. Prior to my learning that Mormonism was false, I had never experienced a day of depression in my life, but after my world came crashing down it became a long, dark tunnel. Anyway, it's called an existential crisis if you haven't read up on it already. Give it time and keep working on things and I promise it will eventually improve. For what it's worth, these four books were game changers for me (check them out if you're interested:

• A Confession by Tolstoy. In it, Tolstoy describes how he navigated his own existential crisis. It's a short read and the link takes you to a free downloadable e-book.
  
  
• The Power of Now by Tolle. It provides an excellent approach for developing mindfulness and learning to accept life as it is.
  
  
• Man's Search for Ultimate Meaning by Frankl. This is a heavy read, so if you don't like the first half, just focus on chapters 6, 7, and 8. It covers the intersection of religion and meaning in life.
  
  
• A New Earth by Tolle. Similar to the above "Power of Now." Focuses on being present, overcoming the ego, and accepting and finding peace in life as it's given.
  
  You may not agree with everything in the books above (I didn't) but they provided me with a lot of invaluable perspective in working through my own loss of faith and the existential vacuum that followed. Stick with it and know that you're not suffering alone! And I promise things will get better.

That's a topic big enough for a two-volume treatise, but in the context of my comment, here goes:

Leaders in SLC have little interaction with lowly members like me, but listening to their semi-annual talks, the emphasis is overwhelmingly geared toward believing and acting in certain way that outwardly shows devotion, and never being satisfied with your current standing with God, as opposed to being happy with who you are and being assured that the church is place for everyone.

As for the local leaders, for a long time I told myself that as long as I was wanted within my local congregation, it didn't matter what the leaders in SLC wanted. When I began limiting my attendance and participation, local leaders of my congregation did not seek me out socially at all, nor were they at all reassured when I told them that things in my life were going well. They were too caught up on my various "statuses" which are tracked by the church headquarters: whether I was attending all my meetings regularly, whether I was paying tithing, whether I had a temple recommend.

The nail in the coffin was when my most immediate local leader, known as the "Elder's Quorum President", begged me to agree to teach the Elder's Quorum lessons. I told him that I didn't care for the content of the lessons, to which he replied, in an exasperated tone "well will you at least attend? We're down to only about four people each week!"

In other words, he was apparently far less interested in my unorthodox insights, or in my extensive experience as a teacher, than in having just another warm body in attendance. This was evidenced by his unenthusiastic request that I teach lessons contrasted with his impassioned plea for another ass-in-the-seats, so to speak. That was the moment my last lingering interest in formal involvement with the community evaporated.

I experienced similar conversations with my local bishop and his counselors, but the above example was the most obvious one.

Hi! I also recommend the Mormon Expression podcast. It's a 6 part series, on Masonry. See http://mormonexpression.com/.

• I would also recommend reading this address by president David O. McKay
  
  http://www.understandingyourendowment.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/DavidOMcKaysTempleSermon.pdf
  
  
• I also recommend Toscano's analysis of the temple endowment as a messianic sacrament. This is discussed at length in "The Serpent and the Dove" (try the second edition). He does a rich analysis of the symbols.
  
  https://www.amazon.com/Serpent-Dove-Messianic-Mysteries-Mormon/dp/1514240033/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1479989901&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=the+serpect+and+the+dove
  
  
• I would add that due to the Masonic character of the endowment, each person is invited to discover / assign the meaning of the ritual to himself/herself. You may receive inputs of the meaning from the ritual itself. Even the covenants may mean different things to each individual. There is no authoritative interpretation. Unfortunately, when the ritual is changed the meaning is changed too.
  
  One interesting aspect of the interpretation of the ritual were the lectures held after the ceremony to explain its meaning. This is documented in Buerger's "The Mysteries of Godliness"
  
  (https://www.amazon.com/Mysteries-Godliness-History-Mormon-Worship/dp/1560851767/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1479990756&sr=8-1&keywords=The+mysteries+of+godliness). I recommend reading the explanations about the keys of the priesthood as related to prayer.
  
  I have mentioned before here in this sub that Brigham Young wrote THE lecture at the veil in 1877.
  
  http://www.lds-mormon.com/veilworker/adamgod.shtml
  
  In it you can learn about the character of God as manifested in Adam.
  This lecture was morphed into a summary of "the instructions, ordinances, and covenants, and also the tokens, with their keywords, signs, and penalties, pertaining to the endowment, which you have thus far received" in the 1980s (or before). This lecture ended with this beautiful statement (in part it is taken from BYoung's lecture at the veil).
  
  "Brethren and sisters, strive to comprehend the glorious things presented to you this day. No other people on earth have ever had this privilege, except as they have received the keys of the priesthood given in the endowment.
  
  These are what are termed the mysteries of godliness--that which will enable you to understand the expression of the Savior, made just prior to his betrayal: "This is life eternal, that they might know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou has sent."
  
  May God bless you all. Amen."
  
  What I mean by quoting all this: at first there was a lot of help to understand the meaning. The ritual had practical use in everyday life (order of prayer), and the people who designed the ritual were alive to guide in this aspect. Masonry was a stepping stone for sure. Then you arrive to the point were the deletions/etc obscured the meaning to the point that you are alone to understand what it means. In 1989 the lecture said that the "keys" received in the endowment are to understand the expression of the Savior recorded in John 17 (and D&C 132).
  
  So, in practice this means that: (1) you have to experience the ritual, (2) study, meditate, etc (3) try to live what it means to you in order to achieve spirituality. By spirituality I mean what David O McKay once said:
  
  "Spirituality, our true aim, is the consciousness of victory over self and of communion with the Infinite" (David O. McKay, In Conference Report, Oct. 1969, 8).
  
  Hope this helps a bit. Cheers!
  (sorry if it is long).
  

Bipolar individual here, who had a psychosis. Also a medical student.

Robert Anderson wrote a book that explores your theories called Inside the Mind of Joseph Smith: A Psychobiography. I think it would be well worth your time.

My assessment's disclaimer: The brain is ridiculously complex. We are only very recently beginning to develop adequate tools to analyze it properly to link particular biochemical processes/pathways with mood disorders/psychiatric disorders/personality disorders. Personality disorders/mood disorders all exist on a spectrum, it's not a binary issue. And diagnostic terms/labels are actually more descriptors, ex. "that looks from here to be blue mixed with green, caused by what appear pine trees; but we'll have to get a closer look." vs. other diseases "2+2=4" as is the case with many infections, for example. It is sadly/frustratingly still a very empirical discipline, though we're about to enter an era of transformation in our understanding of the brain. Very exciting.

My assessment: Smith was a narcissist with bipolar disorder. One trait of narcissism is the idea that you are the center of the world and if people don't assimilate into it in some form you burn bridges (SS quote of having to pick sides after baptism and then you'll fight the church if you ever leave comes to mind.) He would vacillate from thinking things like "I'm made to swim in deep water/No man knows my history" to "I'm the American Mohammad" (paraphrasing)... mania and depression. Toward the end of his life I believe he was in a manic episode with delusions of grandeur that caught up with him when he began to think he could get away with overthrowing the US government at some point and marry any wife he chose.

The question you raise though -- was he delusional -- I think is definitely up in the air, but in my estimation it probably wasn't the case. I think he was very creative (a trait that correlates with bipolar manic/hypomanic episodes) and charismatic (a trait that correlates well with narcissism). Many people believe that Walt Disney had bipolar disorder, for example, and I think some of his stories and storytelling innovations are much more creative than Smith's. ;)

Again, I can't stress enough just how much psychiatry is a discipline of description where disorders exist on a spectrum vs. something more concrete. Bipolar can slide into schizoaffective disorder, which has tendencies of schizophrenia mixed w/depression and occasionally mania, depression can exist in varying degrees and varying durations for varying reasons, but in many cases there are similar neurotransmitters involved etc. Many of these disorders people are finding have similar biochemistry mechanisms involved, and treatments classified for one disorder are very effective in others, ex. anti-seizure meds are found to be very effective in treating bipolar disorder in many cases. Labels tend to be more suggestions or the initial purpose for which the drug was designed, not an exhaustive list of what the drug can be used for.

_____

A side note: you may ask how I ever became a medical student. I had great medical care to arrest my psychosis within days of its onset and have had great medical care since. I hope to erase the stigma of mood disorders and get more awareness out there that it is an illness that is becoming less and less debilitating. With modern medicine though, not priesthood blessings.

Edit: if Smith had bipolar as I estimate he might have, it would be a very mild form. Delusions of grandeur and using moments of "no man knows my history" can be manipulation tactics. At any rate, I only say bipolar because of the degree to which his delusions at the end of his life became, but they could definitely be solely attributed to his narcissism as well.

First, you're not alone. I was in my early 30's when I lost my faith and it took me 2 years to get over the depression and existential vacuum that Joe's lies left behind.

I was able to eventually work my way through it without meds or any serious counseling, but it was a grueling couple of years. Everyone has to figure out their own path, but what helped me most was reading from others who had faced the same existential vacuum and found a way to navigate it. A few titles that I would highly recommend are:

• The Power of Now by Tolle.
  
• Meditations by Marcus Aurelius. Best on audiobook.
  
• Man's Search for Meaning by Frankl.
  
• Man's Search for Ultimate Meaning (A follow-on of above--focus on the later chapters in this book.)
  
• The Alchemist by Coelho.
  
• A New Earth by Tolle.
  
• A Confession by Tolstoy. Free download.
  
• What I Believe, also by Tolstoy and a follow-on to the above Tolstoy book. Free download at link if you look for it.
  
  The above, coupled with a lot of patience, exercise, sleep, and proper diet got me through my deep existential crisis. The existentialism still shows up now and then, but it's totally manageable. Good luck to you! You'll have good days and worse days, but stick with it!--I promise it gets better!

If your son already hates the church then nothing is going to change in his life, except maybe he won't want to party as much if he knows it isn't a sin. Seriously though, just talk with him about all of that stuff and I am sure he will be fine. I would recommend not be overly restrictive with him. My mother did that to me and I went party crazy when I moved in with my dad and was free from her chains.

Also, just because your son may become an atheist along with you does not mean he is more likely to be a party animal. That is a non sequitur. The church would have you believe things like that. I would recommend picking up a book on how to raise atheist kids like this, or pick up some books on child psychology. I remember all the wonderful things I learned in my child psychology class and will be going through that textbook again if I ever decide to have children. Best of luck.

Verse 16 is a little odd. It says that the Sun and Moon are affixed to the solid dome of the sky (which also holds back the waters of the primeval ocean). And then it says "and the stars too". It's almost like the author was thinking "I better say something about the stars, but I'm not really sure what they are. I'll just casually toss them into this sentence and hope someone else can figure out where they should go."

And yes - verse 26 is a reference to the ancient Canaanite pantheon. This is especially clear when you compare Genesis 1 to the other Mesopotamian creation myths, especially the Babylonian Enuma Elish. When the text says "let us make man" is is a reference to the sons and daughters of El, the father of the gods. Note that verse 26 specifically says "in the image of the gods, male and female".

This is a really good book on the origin of the Old Testament. It totally changed my view of the Bible. Reading the OT now is actually quite fun, because it is so easy to see how the various sources were stitched together over the centuries.

I recommend a kind of obscure YouTube channel called Real Atheology.

The website plato.stanford.edu is very helpful.

Also, a book I'd recommend is "The Hiddenness Argument".

Make sure you read Bart Ehrman's books on the New Testament. You owe it to yourself to look at the NT through the same scrutiny you did the BoM.

I also recommend you definitely read Victor Frankl's "Man's Search for Meaning." This is a life changing book.

Finally, I recommend some of the Greek and Roman texts like Marcus Aurelius' "Meditations" and "On the Shortness of Life" by Seneca and Epictetus' "Enchiridion." The endeavor of dealing with our mortality is not new, and reading ancient non-Christian authors on living a good life is very helpful.

Thanks for mentioning us pre-internet pioneers of exmo-ness.

I left in late 1995. Made the mistake of reading Richard S. Van Wagoner's "Mormon Polygamy: A History"

I felt so guilty for reading that book. But, I just couldn't put it down. It was the first time I felt like someone was giving me a real picture of Joseph Smith the man, not the myth. Decided I needed to balance out what I was getting in Van Wagoner's book with something more "church approved." Went to Deseret Book. Asked the girl working if they had anything on polygamy. She said she thought they had one book- they did. It was the book I was already reading.

That was the moment I took the red pill. There was no turning back and the floodgates were opened. I then read:

• No Man Knows My History
  
• Quest For The Gold Plates
  
• By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus
  
• Salamander: The Story of the Mormon Forgery Murders
  
• Secret Ceremonies
  
• Where Does It Say That?
  
  And then I started checking out copies of Sunstone and Dialogue.
  
  I started checking out some of the articles at Utah Lighthouse Ministries and made one trip to their book store, but I was already becoming an atheist and I didn't really like how they weren't just trying to debunk Mormonism but also trying to sell born again xianity.
  
  By November of 1996 I was already attending a Unitarian Universalist congregation and also pretty much an athiest at that point.
  
  When stuff like MormonThink came along, I was already pretty much post-Mormon. And, when I discovered r/exmormon, I was suddenly surprised at how much I liked watching what was happening here.
  
  I'm always surprised at the announcements people make about being done with this place. But, then I found it when I was already over all the emotional rage at having been deceived. I think I just like watching the train wreck at this point. People's posts here really give me the sense that Mormonism is imploding at a rate faster than this stodgy institution is prepared to deal with- makes me happy.

I think you've gained more than you realize. Well, depending on what your LDS life was like. For instance:

• Intellectual freedom
  
• More media choices
  
• More clothing choices
  
• Less guilt in life (think visiting teaching)
  
• Time (lots of it - not just Sundays)
  
• Pride in knowing you found your way out of a controlling religion
  
• Knowledge that your children will have freedom that you didn't
  
  I think in time many of your losses will feel less like losses, especially as you find new purpose in life. You might consider reading Man's Search for Meaning. Also, it sounds like you need community. You might try Mormon Spectrum to get started and then branch out from there. And you've always got us to vent/rant with.
  
  Good luck to you.

• What is the deal with the Apostle John?
  
  You'll need to be more specific.
  
  
• Why do you claim there are hundreds of millions of members world wide, but the official reports claim there are only 15 million or so?
  
  I am unaware of any claim by the LDS church of "hundreds of millions of members." Their claim of membership is 15 Million. In this forum, we observe that only about 1/3 of that number even identify themselves as Mormon, but that doesn't stop the LDS church, or any other church, from counting those who were once affiliated as members.
  
  
• Why does Paul claim it is better for a man not to be married, but marriage is required for entrance into the Celestial Kingdom?
  
  I assume you are talking about 1 Cor. Ch.7. ( 7 For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that. 8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. 9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.)
  
  The typical LDS response to that biblical contradiction with LDS doctrine is 1) ignore this passage, 2) claim Paul was a widower, and 3) point to Ephesians 5:21–6:4 and Colossians 3:8–21. read p.289 of this manual for more detail and p.64 of The Miracle of Forgiveness
  
  
• How do you explain the the lack of Apostolic succession? Did the Apostles just suck at their jobs Christ empowered them to do?
  
  Yup. The LDS faith relies up the doctrine of Apostasy and while the church teachings are usually quite general, there is quite a bit of work done to try and legitimize this theory. Mormons wouldn't say that the Apostles failed, but that Satan won that battle, but it was God's plan to restore His church later. Mormon scholars point to the existence of bad popes to illustrate that godly authority was gone.
  
  
• "Joseph Smith was either telling the truth or an evil man and no evil man could have written the book of Mormon."
  Please explain to me this thinking...
  
  This one makes sense to me. Much like one who believes that the four gospels are God's word must logically believe that Jesus is the Son of God and Christianity (in one form or another) is the gathering of God's people and Christ is the way to salvation. Similarly, if someone believes that the Book of Mormon also contains God's word, then the translator, Joseph Smith, must have been divinely called. Personally, I think the inconsistencies and falibilities in both texts make the conclusions improbable. But that's just my opinion.

Yeah, I actually do feel like I get equal time. Early on my wife and I compromised on church attendance - I keep one of the boys home with me every week and we do something fun, like spending some time winning prizes at the nickelcade or seeing a movie.

I also bought a book for my boys, What do You Believe, which is a pretty high level survey of belief for kids. I wouldn't recommend it for really young ones, though. My 5 year old thinks it's pretty boring. But it has been the prompt for several discussions about what I personally believe, which is cool.

We had a very similar experience! 4 years of treatments, when another IUI failed we called it all off for a break. At that point we were truly at the "not ever going back to church" decision. One month later, preggo! Our son is now almost 17 months, not blessed, will never be involved in the church himself, and I have formally resigned. Its AWESOME! May I recommend two great parenting books I've loved reading and that have helped me a lot on my way out of Mormonism and in learning how to raise my boy without the church?

http://www.amazon.com/Parenting-Beyond-Belief-Raising-Religion/dp/0814474268/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1376170920&sr=1-1&keywords=parenting+beyond+belief

http://www.amazon.com/Raising-Freethinkers-Practical-Parenting-Beyond/dp/0814410960/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1376170920&sr=1-2&keywords=parenting+beyond+belief

Best wishes and of course CONGRATS!!!!

"Mormon Feminism" compiled by Joanna Brooks, Rachel Hunt Steenblik, and Hannah Wheelwright. It has all of the essential feminist essays that show the history of an empowered relief society, women's blessings, and the political influences that diminished women's roles in the church. (see here: https://www.amazon.com/Mormon-Feminism-Essential-Joanna-Brooks/dp/0190248033)

For instance, it has these essays that were very important in my faith transition:

1. "A gift given, a gift taken" - women's blessings and how they ended in 1946 when men coming home form WWII https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/pdf/029-16-25.pdf
   
   
2. "Mormonism's Odd Couple: the Priesthood-Motherhood connection" - how misogyny has been used by the patriarchy throughout time to subjugate women, e.g. Nazis used a lot of the same arguments Mormons use http://signaturebookslibrary.org/woman-and-authority-13/
   
   
3. "Toward a Mormon Theology of God the Mother" - how Heavenly Mother could be the Holy Spirit based on BoM and D&C scripture, got Janice Allred excommunicated - https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/Dialogue_V27N02_27.pdf
   
   Also, I'd consider "The Ghost of Eternal Polygamy" by Carol Lyn Pearson https://www.amazon.com/Ghost-Eternal-Polygamy-Haunting-Hearts/dp/0997458208

Rough Stone Rolling is good but soft-pedals some things.

Some of the stuff from the church historian's press looks worthwhile: https://www.churchhistorianspress.org/publications?lang=eng

Greg Kofford Books has an extensive history line. I've enjoyed what I've read and found it to be well done. https://gregkofford.com/

Natural Born Seer is good, more of a critical lens on Joseph Smith's early years, really intriguing.

Joseph's Temples regarding the Freemasonry connection.

People highly recommend D. Michael Quinn.

Leonard Arrington's stuff is supposed to be classic, Great Basin Kingdom.

David O. McKay and the Rise of Modern Mormonism by Gregory Prince.

I'm not well equipped to provide many accessible sources on this, But the church's history in Utah is rife with blackmail and using prostitution etc.... as a means to this end. Smith seems to have done it, As did Young and his predecessors.

Right now I can only offer one credible online source as well as a few books, I've never really kept sources on this issue. EmmaHS, curious_mormon, AnotherClosetAtheist or Mythryn are typically better at providing sources, I'm just a local idiot. You can try bothering them to get something more useful, Mythryn keeps some information on his website, but it's not easy to search.

Here is a link to a Report by C. S. Varian, who was Assistant US Attorney in Utah territory during the 1880

The Mormon Hierarchy: Extensions of Power, has information that falls into this area. It's also a very good book for looking at the reality of the LDS leadership and their skeleton filled closets.

Prostitution, Polygamy, and Power: Salt Lake City, 1847-1918 by Jeffrey D. Nichols is another useful read.

That's the best I can do right now, I can't locate better/more available sources. But the Mods/power users I named above have also done posts and stuff about it in the past.

Me and my wife were TBM's when we got married (in the temple), and therefore had not done anything more risque than french kissing before our wedding night. However, we did a lot of reading and research about the topic, and tried to be communicative about what we expected.

I recommend this book:
And They Were Not Ashamed by Laura Brotherson. She is a TBM certified family councilor, and the book is about approaching sexuality from a positive, healthy viewpoint. She confronts a lot the the problems with how the church handles sexuality very constructively.

Finally, after reading that and talking it over, we decided NOT to just plunge into things on the wedding night; to take it slowly. This is an approach I (as an ex-mormon) and my wife (still Mormon) highly recommend. The night of our wedding we were exhausted and didn't get to our hotel until late. We took turns in the bathroom changing into flannel pajamas we had acquired for the occasion, and then just cuddled until we fell asleep. No sex, and it was wonderful, since we had never slept in the same bed before!

In the morning, we woke up and made out like never before, and went all the way to second base. Super exciting! But then we packed up and drove to the lake house we had rented for the honeymoon proper.

Once we got there around 11 am, we unpacked and made lunch, and then had the rest of the day to fool around and get comfy with eachother. Lots of making out and slow revelations. I was fully prepared (and completely happy) to not go all the way for a day or two, but we ended up losing all our inhibitions by that evening and going for it.

Things go SO much better if you're not under pressure. And if you've waited this long, an extra day or two is not going to kill you!

This is also a great book that my children have read and learned from. It helps cover world religions and has helped my kids understand some of their friends various religious and faith backgrounds better: What do you believe? http://www.amazon.com/What-Do-You-Believe-Publishing/dp/0756672287

It is covered in this great book, which I highly recommend. The history of Mormon temple worship is totally unknown and fascinating. Like, did you know that until Jos. F. Smith's Presidency, the Logan, Salt Lake, Manti, and St. George temples all had different versions of the endowment? Lots of good stuff in there.

My situation is very different, DH and I are both out. I do however worry a lot about Utah culture influencing my kids and my kids wanting to please beloved TBM grandma. One thing I do is read them children's books about different beliefs/science. Here are a few I ordered recently. My heart goes out to you. Keep doing your thing, being a loving father and talking to them openly.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1940051045/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0152017720/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0756672287/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (for older kids)

http://www.amazon.com/Joseph-Smith-Rough-Stone-Rolling/dp/1400077532 - Rough Stone Rolling - The best biography of JS that I've ever read.
http://mormonthink.com/ - Probably the best researched and least partisan resource.
http://20truths.info/ - 20 Truths about Mormonism

What I like about stoicism is that it is the philosophical basis for a number of evidence-based psychological therapies that go under the general rubric of cognitive behavioral therapy (C.B.T.).

This New York Times article provides a broad overview of modern stoicism.

https://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/02/02/how-to-be-a-stoic/

I thought this book was pretty good if you're interested in a more in depth explanation of stoicism.

https://www.amazon.com/Guide-Good-Life-Ancient-Stoic/dp/0195374614/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1493200369&sr=8-1&keywords=the+guide+to+the+good+life

We make fun of this book a lot, but if her primary hangup is church (and not, as some have mentioned, being asexual or something similar), it might help, as it's pretty tame. http://www.amazon.com/And-They-Were-Ashamed-Strengthening/dp/1587830345

Rough Stone Rolling would be a good place for her to start. You might enjoy it as well. It was written by an LDS historian, so it shouldn't be too scary, but it does tell a slightly different story than what we'd typically hear from the Church. It's not a book that's likely to convince her the Church isn't what it claims to be, but it could help her to see that the Church isn't particularly forthcoming with a lot of its history, and get her thinking on those terms.

Ok I am not about to suggest what I am about to suggest, because I feel that ultimatums are harmful to relationships: You need to make it clear that the relationship is not working for you. You need to tell her that you are thinking about moving on to a relationship that is healthier because you cannot stand to see her harming herself by turning away from something good in life that is right and wholesome and is even approved by the church. Tell her that, and then tell her that you just want her to read a book, and then if she still feels the same way, then you and her will have to make adult decisions because the current situation is harming your relationship and your self image. Then give her this book:

And they were not ashamed

And then be prepared for her to be unwilling to change, and put on your big boy pants and do what you need to do to be happy and healthy.

I found out 3 years ago that my mom was a narcissist. I started reading all the self-help books about narcissism. Then one day, I re-heard about how Joseph Smith had run for President and crowned himself King of Nauvoo. My heart sunk as the good ol HG whispered "Joseph was a narcissist." A Google search produced tons of results, including this book, which I highly recommend: https://www.amazon.com/Inside-Mind-Joseph-Smith-Psychobiography/dp/1560851252 Anderson diagnoses Smith as a narcissist and sociopath.

Here are a few I can recommend:

The Untethered Soul: The Journey Beyond Yourself

http://www.amazon.com/Untethered-Soul-Journey-Beyond-Yourself/dp/1572245379/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1418415604&sr=1-1&keywords=the+untethered+soul

A Guide to the Good Life: The Ancient Art of Stoic Joy

http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Good-Life-Ancient-Stoic/dp/0195374614/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1418415543&sr=1-1&keywords=stoicism

Mindfulness in Plain English

http://www.amazon.com/Mindfulness-Plain-English-20th-Anniversary/dp/0861719069/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1418415648&sr=1-1&keywords=mindfulness+is+plain+english

Yes, I actually just recently came across this because it's always been a question of mine how they determined who sat where in the temple. I noticed that it's not a left/right thing, and I never could figure it out. Then I read that Brigham Young instituted the policy of separating the genders in sacrament meeting where the women sat on the NORTH side of the chapel. I thought back to it, and for the few temples I can place a compass direction on, the women in the temple sit on the north.

I'd be interested in hearing if anyone else can confirm the north/south orientation in the temple they're familiar with.

But yes, Brigham Young did it because....well... Brigham Young.

Edited to add source:
2 Jan, 1859 - Brigham Young begins custom of having all Mormon congregations sit with women on north side of center aisle, men on south side, and children on front benches. This seating arrangement lasts for decades, remains in temples to this day.

All three of your professors points are rubbish. If language had evolved as much as he it said it did then Egyptologists wouldn't be able to interpret the countless artifacts from the same period. Is he really saying that the BOA is the only artifact that is different than all the others? Look up the Book of Abraham on Mormon Think. But for an excellent book, and one that answers each of your professors assertions then this one is in my opinion one of the best. Even though it is from the 90's it still holds up today.

https://www.amazon.com/His-Own-Hand-Upon-Papyrus/dp/0962096326/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1539867049&sr=8-1&keywords=By+His+Own+Hand+Upon+Papyrus

We still have FHE with our kids. Over time, we've sorted through our values, and what is important to us, and we'll continue to do that. But we teach kids lessons based on that. I also talk to my kids about some things on the news, things that happen to them at school, etc. It isn't hard to find ways to teach kids outside of the church.

For service, find some good service opportunities for them through local organizations.

Here's a book full of short chapters that are essays or stories from parents: https://www.amazon.com/Parenting-Beyond-Belief-Raising-Religion/dp/0814474268

http://www.amazon.com/Inside-Mind-Joseph-Smith-Psychobiography/dp/1560851252

Check out this book. The author is Robert D. Anderson, M.D., (a nevermo) is a semi-retired psychiatrist in private practice whose studies at the Psychoanalytic Institute stimulated his interest in applied psychoanalysis. This is a great book.

It's interesting to hear NOMs or other apologists explain this. Richard Bushman acknowledges this, but somehow passes it off like it would be expected of a boy from back then.

After all, the world was very different back then. He was a good boy from the country. /s

A great book and an active (well known) member who will defend you: The Ghost of Eternal Polygamy by Carol Lynn Pearson author of the beloved children's hymn "I'll walk with you".

If you're still interested in learning more about the demystified historical origins of the temple symbolism and rituals then please read The Mysteries of Godliness: A History of Mormon Temple Worship by David J. Buerger, which is dirt-cheap for kindle and an excellent read.

GBH said all that stuff about why we don't use the cross. This is a much better answer from lds.org guide to the scriptures:

"The wooden structure upon which Jesus Christ was crucified (Mark 15:20–26). Many in the world now think of it as a symbol of Christ’s crucifixion and atoning sacrifice; however, the Lord has established his own symbols for his crucifixion and sacrifice—the bread and the water of the sacrament (Matt. 26:26–28; D&C 20:40, 75–79)."
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/cross?lang=eng&letter=c

Also, to add to your comment about Catholics, Banishing the Cross by Michael G. Reed discusses the episode in Utah history where the Catholic church and the LDS church were butting heads. According to him, that is why we don't use the cross. Interesting book, though.

http://www.amazon.com/Banishing-Cross-Emergence-Mormon-Taboo/dp/1934901350

EDIT: /u/jdovew mentioned the same book. Should have read the thread... haha

By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus: A New Look at the Joseph Smith Papyri by Charles M. Larson

Quick read, great full color foldout photos of the papyri (best available anywhere, I believe).

No Man Knows My History by Fawn Brodie

https://www.amazon.com/His-Own-Hand-Upon-Papyrus/dp/0962096326

https://www.amazon.com/No-Man-Knows-My-History/dp/0679730540

I think I've heard of this one being Mormon friendly but still useful. I've never read it myself, but it might be worth looking into.

I would strongly recommend this book. http://www.amazon.com/dp/0814474268/ref=nosim/?tag=parebeyobeli-20 Its got some really good mixed marriage stuff.

I really enjoyed this one about the book of Abraham: By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus: A New Look at the Joseph Smith Papyri https://www.amazon.com/dp/0962096326/ref=cm_sw_r_other_awd_Fb.MwbRT8GJNH

Hah... you can get pieces of it in the following books:

The Book of Mammon

David O. McKay's Biography

some pieces are here: http://bycommonconsent.com/2010/03/03/correlation-an-uncorrelated-history-part-1-the-mormon-underground/

and here: http://www.wheatandtares.org/7190/dumbing-downsimplifying-the-gospel/

You get bits about Grant here: https://www.lds.org/ensign/1979/07/jedediah-and-heber-grant?lang=eng

And about Grant's mother: https://ojs.lib.byu.edu/spc/index.php/BYUStudies/article/viewFile/6918/6567

And even a comic book version of Harold B. Lee's christmas miracle here: https://www.lds.org/friend/2001/12/harold-b-lee-shares-christmas?lang=eng


But no, I know of no book that puts the whole thing together quite as succinctly. Once my current book comes out (It's done, just needs some editing); my next one will be "Honest Mormon Nuttiness" or "Nutty Mormon History" and this kind of connected tale comes out from it.

See my flair.

Maybe some of these or books like these will help you explain things to your kids.

http://www.amazon.com/Parenting-Beyond-Belief-Raising-Religion/dp/0814474268/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1326736652&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Just-Pretend-Freethought-Book-Children/dp/1877733059/ref=pd_sim_b_7?ie=UTF8&refRID=1TST6CPCNP7RGVV1RVT7

http://www.amazon.com/Raising-Freethinkers-Practical-Parenting-Beyond/dp/0814410960/ref=pd_sim_b_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=1TST6CPCNP7RGVV1RVT7

http://www.amazon.com/Maybe-Yes-No-Dan-Barker/dp/0879756071/ref=pd_sim_b_5/175-5906093-8191060?ie=UTF8&refRID=161YVFZQ1AYMJBH8S80V

http://www.amazon.com/What-Do-You-Believe-Publishing/dp/0756672287/ref=pd_sim_b_2/175-5906093-8191060?ie=UTF8&refRID=161YVFZQ1AYMJBH8S80V

http://www.amazon.com/Older-than-The-Stars-Karen/dp/1570917884/ref=pd_sim_b_3/175-5906093-8191060?ie=UTF8&refRID=161YVFZQ1AYMJBH8S80V

Has "The Miracle of Forgiveness" done anything but made people feel bad about themselves? Love the first review about it on amazon: http://www.amazon.com/The-Miracle-Forgiveness-Spencer-Kimball/dp/0884944441

If you can find it in their archive, the History Channel did a very good documentary on it. I would recommend you watch it.

This book, "Blood Of The Prophets," was written by the dean of the history department at the U. of U., and it is probably the definitive history of it.

https://www.amazon.com/Blood-Prophets-Brigham-Massacre-Mountain/dp/0806136391/ref=sr_1_3?Adv-Srch-Books-Submit.x=0&Adv-Srch-Books-Submit.y=0&qid=1562545185&refinements=p_27%3AWill+Bagley&s=books&sr=1-3&unfiltered=1

I bought this book for my kids and they have had a great time learning about all different religions (if I recall it was recommended by this sub :))

What Do You Believe

http://www.amazon.com/What-Do-You-Believe-Publishing/dp/0756672287/ref=pd_cp_b_0))

*edit for spacing

It's on the book "by his own hand upon papyrus"

It's the first chapter. It mentions that people were starting to doubt Joseph Smith so they had to do something to revive the faith. When the mummy salesman came to town it was just what they needed: Show that Joseph could translate ancient documents.

I don't have time to watch the video, but if the book he is talking about is Deconstructing Mormonism, it's the one he previously talked about being the one that broke his faith last year.

It's a good book, but it's not light reading. You can see his review there on the Amazon page (his name is Kerry Shirts).

Right before I left the church, I was Gospel Doctrine teacher. It was my favorite calling. I loved teaching.

Not sure what I can add to the list of pharisaical things Mormons do, but I will throw this out there if you're teaching about the OT. I just got finished reading "Who Wrote the Bible?", and it was very enlightening. Helped the OT make more sense: the short version (which I hadn't gotten from other sources) is that the Torah was a compilation of two different sources, one pro-Judah and one pro-Israel that got written after Israel was divided after Solomon died. They cut and pasted each story side by side. The compilation likely happened after the Babylonian Exile, which would have been after Lehi btw.

Oh wait, if you're in UT, you could mention the on one hand anal way people drive (never let people in because they should have seen the yellow line) combined with utter social cluelessness (I know I'm where I'm supposed to be, so even if I'm doing 50 in the fast lane, not my problem).

There is a huge amount of mythology about the pioneers.

Most of the people that crossed the plains to Utah slept in a bunk car and ate in a dining car. Their train was not a train of wagons and the horse that drew their train ate wood and coal, not oats and grass.

But thousands did come in wagon trains, and 95% of those wagon trains didn't have difficulty. The reality is that most of the pioneers to cross the plains did so with relative ease and few casualties.

A large number of them traveled east, not west. They sailed to San Fransisco and then came across California and Nevada to Utah.

The ones that did have problems were mostly due to stupidity, and most of the stories you hear about those are exaggerated. In saying that, I don't want to minimize the hardship some of them faced, but the true story is significantly different from the myth, especially with regards to the Martin and Willey handcart companies.

Start here: http://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=58216230&itype=cmsid

If you want to dig deeper then read this: https://www.amazon.com/Devils-Gate-Brigham-Handcart-Tragedy/dp/1416539891/

If you really want to go down a rabbit hole, google Brigham Young's steam engine, and you'll learn the so called "rescue" of 1856 was more about getting Briggy's engine and tobacco to SLC than it was about saving lives.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ou47dupzoys

This is a better starting point than Armstrong. It helps that it's a million times more readable: http://www.amazon.com/Wrote-Bible-Richard-Elliott-Friedman/dp/0060630353/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1377833887&sr=1-1&keywords=who+wrote+the+bible+richard+elliott+friedman

If you want to learn more, this book does a good job examining the evolution of temple worship.

Give them a copy of a new book, "The Ghost of Eternal Polygamy" for Christmas.

https://www.amazon.com/Ghost-Eternal-Polygamy-Haunting-Hearts/dp/0997458208

It is a call to remove polygamy entirely from the church, made by a respectible-within-the-church author. Until Mormons do this, they are going to be hurting women's minds by making them all worry that their husband will pick up a few extra wives in super VIP heaven.

Amazon link

I finished listening to this on audible. I liked how the author sets the stage around Utah and captures the historical context of the time. Brigham young is talked about a lot but he isn't the main focus. The focus really is the people at mountain meadows. This book really shows Brigham young as a distant leader who willingly sacrifice anyone to protect himself and his theocracy.

Michael Quinn wrote a book about this- "Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power." It's expensive but our library (in SC) had it. Also the recent (fantastic) interview of Christins Jeppsen Clark on Mormon Stories Podcast gets into some details of how excommunications happen, how GAs operate. (Her dad was a close friend of Packer and a GA.)

We are all dealing with some level of religious PTSD. It's no surprise that we are so triggered by aspects of LDS practice and culture. We spent a minimum of three hours per Sunday at church and likely so much more time on mandatory tasks in a high demand religion. We read through Joseph Smith's bible fan-fiction multiple times. We defended policies that stemmed from his inability to keep his pants on. Many of us spent 18 months or two years working full time, as an unpaid volunteer trying to convince other people to abandon their faith and join this American Restorationist, insular, frontier religion with all too many "cult" aspects.

It's ironic that all of us apostates have to be the Christlike people in our relationships when dealing with believers. We have to forgive their actions when they lash out in anger at our interest in scandalous activites like "drinking coffee" or "sleeping late on Sunday" or "funding our 401k instead of tithing". Believers have a doctrinal base for being suspicious of apostates. It's not fair and does not hold up under objective scrutiny. But it will be used as an emotional weapon against us. Forgive them; for they know not what they do.

We have to be better than that. If you are being hurt by the LDS church then simply leaving is your best strategy. If you are on the LGBT spectrum then simple leaving is likely your best strategy. If you can still deal with believers in an emotionally healthy way, then being patient with their socially pressured fears is incumbent on you if you want to have a relationship with them. Do your complaining while in /r/exmormon and be kind when faced with believers.

Kerry Shirts (aka The Backyard Professor) left apologetics 2 years ago. This was his departure.

It seems that he has also left the church, but I honestly haven't heard much about him in the last couple of years.

If you're serious about wanting an in-depth logical breakdown of the church, you could try Tom Riskas' Deconstructing Mormonism. This is not light reading. Read the reviews.

I'm only 37 pages in, but so far it's definitely my cup of tea.

Having recently finished the book Blood of the Prophets, your mother's statement makes my blood boil.

That is definitely something worth bringing up and correcting her about, even if you don't implicate Brigham Young or the church.

My kids were old enough that we HAD to talk with them when we left. My younger ones were mainly relieved they didn't have to go to church anymore, but the older one was worried and confused for a while. We've talked about it a lot, and have made sure he knows we're open to discussing it any time. It doesn't come up all the time, but it's not uncommon.

Have you read [Parenting Beyond Belief] (https://www.amazon.com/Parenting-Beyond-Belief-Raising-Religion/dp/0814474268/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1504214653&sr=8-3&keywords=parenting+beyond+belief) yet? If not, give it a try. It's got good suggestions for talking to kids about life and belief, and raising a secular family while many others around you are religious.

Deconstructing Mormonism is a good, though somewhat technically dense, read that points out the philosophical absurdity of Mormonism.

Absolutely! "Devil's Gate" by David Roberts. He is a nevermo historian of the American West. It is a thoroughly detailed, readable and entertaining book, and he is completely unbiased.

https://www.amazon.com/Devils-Gate-Brigham-Handcart-Tragedy/dp/1416539891

Interesting.

I see a historical parallel here between David O. McKay, Harold B. Lee, and Spencer W. Kimball.

Have you read this book?

It looks like you can get a used paperback for $2.
https://smile.amazon.com/Miracle-Forgiveness-Spencer-W-Kimball/dp/0884944441/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1555966798&sr=8-1

The cross/crucifix was only officially repudiated by the church in the 1950s under David O. McKay, though there was grassroots opposition to it starting around the turn of the 20th century.

It was seen as a primarily Catholic symbol, apparently. There's a book about it that I haven't read:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1934901350/

Bruce R. McConkie went perhaps the furthest and called it a mark of the beast, or something like that.

What's up dude.

www.amazon.com/dp/1934901350/

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwww yeah.

Ghost of Eternal Polygamy, by Carol Lynn Pearson

https://www.amazon.com/Ghost-Eternal-Polygamy-Haunting-Hearts/dp/0997458208

She deconstructs any reason for keeping polygamy "sanctioned" in heaven.

Read the book review by Kerry Shirts. He is (or was) an apologist. It seems like this book hit him really hard

I've gotten great stuff out of these books, especially the "What You Believe" one. It basically shows that all religions are founded on crazy myths, and how incredibly small and insignificant mormonism in on the global scale.

https://bookofbadarguments.com/

http://raisingfreethinkers.com/

https://www.amazon.com/What-You-Believe-Big-Questions/dp/0756672287

​

While you're at it, get familiar with stoicism

The LDS leadership should ask the Marriotts to replace the Book of Mormon in the nightstand with Will Bagley's book. Just for one week every year in memoriam.

Daymon Smith is the expert on this. His interview at BCC and Mormon Stories interview were big shelf-breakers for me.

You might also check out the chapter on correlation in David O. McKay and the Rise of Modern Mormonism (another shelf-breaker). One biggie is that RS used to be basically autonomous with its own money and publications; then correlation made them subject to more male oversight—their money and publications were also taken away, as was there autonomy to appoint who they wanted to positions in RS or where to go for world conferences etc without having to ask male leaders.

All you need to know about that book can be found in this review.

https://www.amazon.com/Ghost-Eternal-Polygamy-Haunting-Hearts/dp/0997458208/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1468994106&sr=1-1&keywords=carol+lynn+pearson

I read it in Tell it All (starting on p. 219)

But there's more here: http://www.amazon.com/Devils-Gate-Brigham-Handcart-Tragedy/dp/1416539891

http://www.historynet.com/mormon-handcart-horrors.htm

This one, this one, and then this one. In fact, read those even if you don't go.

A very in-depth and fully documented look at the early church can be found in D. Micheal Quinn's Origins and Extensions of Power books.

Take a look at this book: https://www.amazon.com/Inside-Mind-Joseph-Smith-Psychobiography/dp/1560851252/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?keywords=joseph+smith+psychology&qid=1567980764&s=gateway&sr=8-3

https://www.amazon.com/Inside-Mind-Joseph-Smith-Psychobiography/dp/1560851252

I've read about this on the sub before here.

But I have yet to see the source. The claim is from this book, which seems fairly well-sourced.

"And They Were Not Ashamed"?

Here's another one.

The cross only became taboo in Mormonism under David O. McKay. It was an anti-Catholic gesture in response to Catholic's efforts to proselytize in SLC and other anti-Catholic sentiments.

Read Banishing the Cross: Banishing the Cross: The Emergence of a Mormon Taboo https://www.amazon.com/dp/1934901350/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_c_api_JSKzzbH8KQ8TC

Mormon youth who have "sinned," usually in a sexual nature, used to be somewhat frequently encouraged to read it. It is available to purchase through Amazon.com (and at really low prices).

Presumably you read "Devils Gate" by Roberts. I thought it was a really good read, not as gruesome as expected.
https://www.amazon.com/Devils-Gate-Brigham-Handcart-Tragedy/dp/1416539891/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1468531987&sr=8-1&keywords=devils+gate+david+roberts

Roberts is a never mo historian of the West, and very unbiased.

I always new BY was a pig, but not that big a pig.

The Ghost of Eternal Polygamy by Carol Lynn Pearson

Just came out in July, and she's a well-known Mormon author, so not too weird to give him a book by her.

https://www.amazon.com/Ghost-Eternal-Polygamy-Haunting-Hearts/dp/0997458208/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1474751363&sr=1-1&keywords=ghosts+of+polygamy

Probably. The Mormon aversion to the cross did not stem from the founders but started in the early 20th century. It became institutionalized in the 1950's under David McKay. Here is a book that explores this. I have not read the book so I do not know how good it is

Sorry, had to add this:

I had a roommate that I hated (can't get into details, b/c it'll take up three solid pages of ranting) that had one of those 'sex for LDS' books called "And They Were Not Ashamed". I stole it at the end of the semester. It's sad/funny that it even exists, and books like it. It's a shame that young people in the prime of their life need to be told how to have sex. It's not that complicated, follow your instincts, enjoy yourself & your partner and stop thinking about the guilt & just DO IT.

That being said, I did have a few hang-ups once my husband & I got married. It took a little bit of time, it's almost funny how my perspective has changed about it!

Depends on the "TBM" you ask I suppose. Its not a book that is trying to expose the church or anything. Its pretty much just an academic work. Its not just about the Second Anointing. Its about the history of temple worship in the church generally. He's careful to use sources that are/were public at the times they were released and he doesn't even give any of the ceremonies away as they stand today. Its pretty evenhanded but revealing. Much of it goes into the Masonic roots of the temple for example. That alone could make it seem "anti Mormon" by many members. If the truth is anti Mormon, then this book is anti Mormon...

Here's a link: Mysteries of Godliness

I was reading posts in the archives on this sub. I believe it is referenced from The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power by D. Michael Quinn

“Sept 7, 1859 - Salt Lake City clerk records sale of twenty six year old "negro boy" for $800 to William H. Hooper. Until federal law ends slavery in U.S. Territories in 1862, some African-American slaves are paid as tithing, bought, sold and otherwise treated as chattel in Utah.”

I know they made him take it out in Mormon Doctrine.

Banishing the Cross talks about how the early Mormons had crosses but because they were connected to the Catholic church they eventually were banished. As an example, some early church buildings in SLC have crosses in them and the this is the place monument almost was a cross. The hate used to run deep.

https://www.amazon.com/Banishing-Cross-Emergence-Mormon-Taboo/dp/1934901350

Best book on the subject I've ever read, from a historian: http://smile.amazon.com/Devils-Gate-Brigham-Handcart-Tragedy/dp/1416539891/

No other source made me feel like I really understood the tragedy. And frankly, no other book every made me hate BY quite so much.

I think the short story of how he ended up not being a TBM/apologist is that back in 2012 he read the book "Deconstructing Mormonism: An Analysis and Assessment of the Mormon Faith". Here is his Amazon review:

How on Earth Do I Possibly Deal With This?!

>I have been a Mormon Apologist on the Internet now for over 15 years. There is NOTHING I cannot take apart, refute, and show to be fallacious, wrong, incorrect, warped, weird, and wrong headed, .......until now. (See? That's one of the problems of Mormon apologetics, not to mention Christian apologetics, we get puffed up thinking we can refute anything, which just is not even factually true). What is it about this book that has so eviscerated Mormonism, and in turn ALL Western Christians faiths? A few words first. For one thing, this is simply not an easy book to read. It is serious. There is no other way to describe this. Now that being said, I believe Thomas Riskas is right to sincerely admonish readers to just make it through the first chapters as they lay the ground work for the rest of the book. This is important. By laying the ground work, you see the unrelenting and impeccable logic of his thoughts, analysis, and discussions along with the answers. I had to read and re-read quite a few of those first pages in the first few chapters over more than once. It is worth it for no other reason than to actually "get it" with the sheer force of the power of his arguments he develops in later chapters.





FYI, he's regularly posting as "Philo Sofee" at the Mormon Discussions forum:

http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=1

Here are some of his recent threads:

OK I'm Going to be Honest, I am Miffed!

>Okay so in the process of researching for my book on the book of Abraham that I am currently going to write, I have been rereading all of the LDS apologetic. This last weekend I read well over 500 pages of dozens of articles by several LDS apologists and several chapters in several of Hugh Nibley books on the Book of Abraham. I read chapter one in his book "The Message of the Joseph Smith Papyri." And it completely stumped me.

Kerry Muhlestein, LDS Egyptologist, Just WRONG About Papyri

>Kerry Muhlestein, an LDS Egyptologist, who wants so badly to fill the shoes of John Gee and Hugh Nibley continues to misunderstand and misconstrue some basic ideas and logic of the papyri that Joseph Smith had.

This is just SO MESSED UP!!!

>Richard Bushman, one of the better LDS historians, (come on, at least he TRIED to be a little more objective in “Rough Stone Rolling”) wrote a nifty little essay back in 1997, “The Rhetoric of Revelation Ancient and Modern Models,” published by FARMS, that caught my eye during my research into my forth coming book on the Book of Abraham.

There was a great article on the evolution of Mormon attitudes toward masturbation in the Fall 2005 issue of the journal Sexuality & Culture

Historical Development of New Masturbation Attitudes in Mormon Culture: Silence, Secular Conformity, Counterrevolution, and Emerging Reform

I don't think it's going to immediately help your situation, but it does provide perspective that I think would be helpful to the community here.

Summary:

• In the first few decades of the church's existence, masturbation just wasn't something that the leadership spoke out about.
  
• In the late 1800s and early 1900s, church leaders made statements more or less aligning with the Victorian view that masturbation was a sign or cause of mental illness.
  
• in the 1920s and 30s, the church's position on masturbation was actually more enlightened than it is today. From the article:
  
  > A new, factually based, era in church thinking about sexuality
  and sex education appeared during the end of the 1920s and into
  the 1930s. Research physicians by then had verified a link between
  masturbation shame and mental health risks in youth who reported
  suicidal ideation associated with attempted masturbation abstinence.
  There were also documented cases of completed suicide attributed
  to psychological trauma that resulted from masturbation abstinence
  (Steckel, 1917/1953).
  
  > Official church manuals endorsed secular books about sexuality
  and suggested that sexual interests be guided rather than inhibited.
  During this time masturbation did not always carry the same onus
  that it does in the popular Mormon literature of today. Rather than
  focusing on abstinence supervision as is practiced today with current
  church youth interviewing policies, lessons instead warned
  parents that they could create emotional problems in their adolescents
  by an “unintelligent” over response to their masturbation
  (Bush, 1993).
  
  
• The church's current diversion from science on the topic of masturbation started in the 1950s when Bruce McConkie taught in Mormon Doctrine that not only was masturbation unclean, but that psychiatrists' advice was dangerous because it could persuade people not to repent. McConkie's strong anti masturbation stance would be echoed by Spencer Kimball, Boyd Packer, and others. In 1972 when the new Boy Scout manual included a paragraph about masturbation being a normal part of sexuality, the church objected so strongly that the BSA had to destroy 25,000 scout manuals and re-print them with advice to talk your sexual feelings over "with your parents and/or spiritual advisor or doctor". Part of the theme recited by youth each week at mutual included the phrase "better dead clean than alive, unclean." Boyd Packer's "little factory" talk from 1976 was turned into the 1981 pamphlet To Young Men Only, and told young men that masturbation would turn them gay. Elder Mark Peterson taught the use of aversion therapy, or even tying your wrist to the bedpost, in his guide Steps to Overcoming Masturbation.
  
• Recently, there seems to be some slight dialing back of the masturbation paranoia. The 2001 version of the For the Strength of Youth pamphlet no longer mentions masturbation by name. Laura Brotherson's guide to LDS sexuality, And They Were Not Ashamed, specifically recommends masturbation for women as "self-learning".

What I believe is that there is at least peace in controlling the mind. For instance, if you let the mind roam, it will dwell on the past thinking about sad events or trauma or regrets or guilt etc. And if it goes into the future it will become anxious and nervous in imaginaing all sorts of possible scenarios.

But all this can be controlled by focusing on the present moment. There is a book out there I recommend anyone can get called 'The Power of Now' by Eckhart Tolle.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Power-Now-Spiritual-Enlightenment/dp/1577314808

It is sort of the modern version of the old hippy classic: Be Here Now.

Also, in the present moment, say driving a car, there is much to get worked up about and pissed off about - lots of idiot drivers. But the mind can be controlled here also so that you are never ruffled.

This is my 'practice.' Inside this 'peace bubble' good things happen. But that is another discussion.

See, no angels, no gods, no prayer, no service, no leaders, no followers.

So maybe a copy of Uncle Tom's Cabin, then . . .

Only you will know the best approach. The church has tons of weak spots. It's just that people place value on different things.

To discredit the Book of Mormon itself as a historical document, start with a couple of simple websites. I really find the Wikipedia page on BOM anachronisms to be a great starting point. It's an avalanche of evidence in short form. If this is her "one thing" have her go down the list and discuss each item on the page. How does she explain the elephants? The metal currency? The animals that shouldn't be there and the animals that should have been in a book set in the ancient US? If the Book of Mormon can be shown to be a work of fiction, the rest unravels.

To discredit Joseph Smith as a person who produced divine scripture, read By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus. It's not too long, and because we actually have the original text used to produce the Book of Abraham, it's very easy to prove that what Smith produced was a bunch of made up bullshit.

To draw attention to the fact that Joseph Smith was a serial rapist who abused his spiritual authority to have sex with women who trusted him, all the while going behind his wife's back, send her to Wives of Joseph Smith. In Sacred Loneliness is excellent and extremely thorough, but the book is also the size of a cinder block and can be off-putting to someone only willing to read one thing.

To point out historical spin on polygamy, you could discuss the following:

• Remember that awesome story about how Smith ordered Heber C. Kimball to give his wife Vilate over to him as a plural wife, and Kimball handed her over like chattel? The church teaches this as some kind of great show of faith, completely glossing over the fact that Vilate was not property to be given away and that just a few months later Smith was fucking their 14 year old daughter instead.
  
• Remember that tragic story of martyrdom where Joseph Smith was dragged out of his house to be tarred, feathered, and nearly castrated, and then one of his adopted twins died? Gee, why would they want to castrate him? Could it be because he was having sex with women he wasn't married to, putting them at risk for rejection by society? One of the mob members that night was a brother of a girl Smith had recently propositioned, so his actions were what caused the death of the baby. Chew on that for a while.
  
• Remember why Joseph Smith was in jail for that last time? Yes, it was for violating the First Amendment. He ordered the destruction of a printing press because it created the papers that revealed all of the fucking around he had been doing. The publisher of that paper was William Law, his counselor in the presidency, who had spent years defending Smith against charges of polygamy and only learned the truth when his own wife was propositioned. William Law was doing nothing but telling the truth about Smith's behavior, and Smith's own lawless actions in trying to cover up polygamy are what brought him to his death.
  
  The polygamy issue is a rabbit hole of ugliness that nobody can unsee. It's possible your wife is genuinely unbothered by it and wouldn't care how many women and girls Smith raped, but I want to believe if she has any conscience at all that her stomach will turn once she sees what is behind the curtain.

From the FB post

..

September 11th marks the anniversary of the Mountain Meadows Massacre. A five day siege that culminated in the slaughter of some 120 California-bound immigrants in 1857, at the hands of Mormon militiamen (reinstated Nauvoo Legion) from Parowan, Utah.

A month before the emigrants departed Arkansas on their journey west, Parley P. Pratt (LDS Apostle) was shot and stabbed by an estranged husband of his twelfth plural wife in the same state. Additionally there was war hysteria about a possible invasion into the Mormon territory by the U.S. government, placing the population on edge.

The wagon train of emigrants were bound for California on a route that passed through the Utah Territory. After arriving in Salt Lake, the Baker-Fancher party made their way south, eventually stopping to rest at Mountain Meadows. While camping at the meadow, nearby Mormon militia leaders, including Isaac C. Haight (LDS Stake President) and John D. Lee (adopted son, sealed to Brigham Young), joined forces to organize an attack on the wagon train.

Intending to give the appearance of Native American aggression, the militia’s plan was to arm some Southern Paiutes and persuade them to join with a larger party of their own militiamen—disguised as Native Americans—in an attack. During the militia's first assault on the wagon train the emigrants fought back, and a five-day siege ensued. Eventually fear spread among the militia's leaders that some emigrants had caught sight of white men and had likely discovered the identity of their attackers. As a result militia commander William H. Dame ordered his forces to kill the emigrants.

By this time the emigrants were running low on water and provisions, and allowed some approaching members of the militia—who carried a white flag—to enter their camp. John D. Lee, then local Indian agent, told them the Indians had gone, and if the Arkansans would lay down their arms, he and his men would escort them to safety. They were separated into three groups—the wounded and youngest children, who led the way in two wagons; the women and older children, who walked behind; and then the men, each escorted by an armed member of the militia.

Lee led his charges three-quarters of a mile from the campground to a southern branch of the California Trail. As they approached the rim of the Great Basin, a single shot rang out, followed by an order: "Do your duty!" The escorts turned and shot down the men, painted "Indians" jumped out of oak brush and cut down the women and children, and Lee directed the murder of the wounded.

Following the massacre, the perpetrators hastily buried the victims, leaving the bodies vulnerable to wild animals and the climate. Local families took in the surviving 17 children (all under 8 years of age), and many of the victims' possessions were auctioned off.

Initially, the LDS Church denied any involvement by Mormons, and was relatively silent on the issue. Though an early investigation was conducted by Brigham Young, who interviewed John D. Lee on September 29th, 1857. Young sent a report to the Commissioner of Indian Affairs stating the massacre was the work of Native Americans. The Utah War delayed any investigation by the U.S. government until 1859, when Jacob Forney and Major James Henry Carleton conducted investigations. In Carleton's investigation, at Mountain Meadows he found women's hair tangled in sage brush and the bones of children still in their mothers' arms. Carleton later said it was "a sight which can never be forgotten." After gathering up the skulls and bones of those who had died, Carleton's troops buried them and erected a cairn and cross with the inscription “Vengeance is mine, I will repay saith the Lord.”

During a tour of southern Utah, Brigham Young along with some 60 other Saints, visited the massacre site in May 1861. After viewing the inscription on the cross, Wilford Woodruff recorded President Young as saying “it should be vengeance is mine and I have taken a little.” The cross was then torn down and the rocks of the cairn were dismantled, leaving little of the original marker.

Captain James Lynch, who visited the site of the massacre in 1859, recorded his impressions:

"The scene of the fearful murder still bears evidence of the atrocious crime, charged by the Mormons and their friends to have been perpetrated by Indians but really by mormons disguised as Indians, who in their headlong zeal, bigotry and fanaticism deemed this a favorable opportunity of at once wreaking their vengeance on the hated people of Arkansas, and of making another of these iniquitious “Blood offerings” to God so often recommended by Brigham Young and their other leaders. For more than two square miles the ground is strewn with the skulls, bones and other remains of the victims. In places water has washed many of these remains together, forming little mounds, raising monuments as it were to the cruelty of man to his fellow man. Here and there may be found the remains of an innocent infant beside those of some devoted mother, ruthlessly slain by men worse than demons; their bones lie bleaching in the noon day sun a mute but eloquent appeal to a just but offended God for vengeance. I have witnessed many harrowing sights on the fields of battle, but never did my heart thrill with such horrible emotions, as when standing on that silent plain contemplating the remains of the innocent victims of Mormon Avarice, fanaticism & cruelty.”

"Blood offerings” perhaps referencing the early mormon teaching of blood atonement that some crimes are so heinous that the atonement of Christ does not apply. Instead, to atone for these sins perpetrators should be killed in a way that would allow their blood to be shed upon the ground as a sacrificial offering.

Brigham Young taught that a person who "has committed a sin that he knows will deprive him of that exaltation which he desires, and that he cannot attain to it without the shedding of his blood, and also knows that by having his blood shed he will atone for that sin, and be saved and exalted with the Gods, is there a man or woman in this house but what would say, 'shed my blood that I may be saved and exalted with the Gods?' All mankind love themselves, and let these principles be known by an individual, and he would be glad to have his blood shed. That would be loving themselves, even unto an eternal exaltation. Will you love your brothers or sisters likewise, when they have committed a sin that cannot be atoned for without the shedding of their blood? Will you love that man or woman well enough to shed their blood? That is what Jesus Christ meant." - Journal of Discourses, vol.4, pp. 215–21.

Out of all the men involved only John D. Lee was tried in a court of law. He was executed by firing squad on March 23, 1877, nearly twenty years after the massacre.

There is a general consensus among historians that Brigham Young played a role in provoking the massacre, at least unwittingly, and in concealing evidence after the fact. He used inflammatory and violent language preceding the attack—even inserting an Oath of Vengeance into the LDS Temple endowment ceremony where initiates "covenant and promise that you will pray and never cease to pray to Almighty God to avenge the blood of the prophets [Joseph and Hyrum] upon this nation, and that you will teach the same to your children and to your children's children unto the third and fourth generation."

John D. Lee cited this oath in his confession shortly before his execution:
"I believed then as I do now, that it was the will of every true Mormon in Utah, at that time, that the enemies of the Church should be killed as fast as possible, and that as this lot of people had men amongst them that were supposed to have helped kill the Prophets in the Carthage jail, the killing of all of them would be keeping our oaths and avenging the blood of the Prophets.”

The direct culpability of Brigham Young is still hotly debated among historians.

...

This one was tough. It was a bit hastily cobbled together with quite a bit of plagiarism (eh, it's a FB post). The topic was a new one to me. One I knew very little about until a short time ago. A topic that is both relevant, tragic and interesting. This post just begins to scratch the surface. I recommend reading some of the links below and checking out Lindsay's podcast on the topic.

If you have any additional information or insights, leave them in the comments.

….

Crash Course:
Blood Atonement - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_atonement
Oath of Vengeance - http://www.mormonthink.com/glossary/oath-of-vengeance.htm
Mountain Meadows massacre - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_massacre
Year in Polygamy, Mountain Meadows massacre (podcast) - http://www.yearofpolygamy.com/tag/mountain-meadows-massacre/
Peace and Violence among 19th-Century Latter-day Saints, LDS Gospel Topic Essay - https://www.lds.org/topics/peace-and-violence-among-19th-century-latter-day-saints?lang=eng
Mountain Meadows Massacre - http://www.historynet.com/mountain-meadows-massacre
Last confession and statement of John D. Lee - http://www.mtn-meadows-assoc.com/jdlconfession.htm
Affidavit of Jame Lynch - https://www.mtn-meadows-assoc.com/james_lynch.htm
Blood of the prophets : Brigham Young and the massacre at Mountain Meadows (book) - https://www.amazon.com/Blood-Prophets-Brigham-Massacre-Mountain/dp/0806136391