(Part 2) Top products from r/livesound

Attempting to build a system that will allow us to have in ear monitors for when we go live, as well as in our "studio", however I'm not sure if this will work together or not and I don't want to invest in something that won't work, or is garbage.

Can someone let me know if this will do what I expect, and won't suck? :)

Currently I have a 4 channel mixer plugged into some PA speakers and a Scarlett 2i2 to plug things into my PC.

What that really means is, I have two mics plugged into the PA speakers as well as going to the Scarlett with the rest of everything going through amps and just the drums themselves.

We are a 4 piece band with drums, guitar, bass, and vocals.

Currently with our setup, we can record everything through a mic I have setup in the practice space but it's less than ideal to set levels and actually have any sort of decent sound.

If we want to record things separately then I can just plug whatever we want to record (aside from drums) into the Scarlett and call it good.

However we'd like to have everything go through a central source, and be able to hear that central source play back to us through some IEMs while we play. We would also all like to have our own mixes, and have the mixes be stereo

I'd love suggestions/feedback on my proposed setup and would like to know if what I'm thinking of would even be feasible.

The proposed setup - Cables aren't necessarily a specific brand but the length/type:

1x Behringer XR18 Mixer

1x P16-M

4x Galaxy Audio AS-1100

1x Pyle Pro Drum Mic Kit or some other simple drum mic kit

1x Kick Drum Mic Stand

2x Overhead Mic Stand

6x Short(ish) XLR Cables

2x XLR to 1/4 Cables

How I'm seeing everything plug together is:
Into XR18

• Vocal mics
  
• Guitar amp output
  
• Bass amp output
  
• Drum mic kit
  
  Out of XR18
  
  
• Channels 1-2 -> Galaxy Audio
  
• Channels 3-4 -> Galaxy Audio
  
• Channels 5-6 -> Galaxy Audio
  
• Main L/R -> PA Speakers
  
• Ethernet Port -> P16-M -> Galaxy Audio
  
• USB Port -> PC -> Recording
  
  To me this seems like it SHOULD all work, but I'd like some other opinions on if it will work as I expect or not, or if I need/don't need components.
  
  Is anyone able to see anything that just looks inherintely BAD with the list of components I'm wanting to get? I know the wireless systems aren't great, but we don't want to spend a ton of money (at least right now) on some quality systems.
  
  For now this will all be free-standing but eventually I hope to build a case to house everything. Will all of the above be able to fit inside a case, or will I face any issues?
  
  What are some good cable brands I should go for or avoid?

A few books to consider:

Backstage Handbook. ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL.

Quantum: A Guide for the Perplexed. This one is... well... it helped me to understand some things about physics. Not all of it is relevant, and you'll have to draw some conclusions yourself as to how it all applies to audio engineering. At the very least, it's a great introduction to subatomic physics for people who aren't great with math. YMMV, but I found that a basic understanding of what sound waves actually do goes a LONG way. From there you can discern certain things like how ambient temperature and humidity will affect your mix.

The Business of Audio Engineering. Worth the price of admission, despite grammatical errors.

Mixing Engineer's Handbook. Might be worth it. Interviews with established recording engineers. Has some interesting info. Only the first half of the book is really worth reading, though.

Mixing Audio. Relevant information. Could almost act as a textbook.

That will at least get you started. I know that you're looking more for the mixing side of things, and that's great, but trust me on this. You will want to know as much as you can about all facets of theatrical/concert/special event work. THAT'S how you really get gigs.

For a resource the Live Sound Operator's Handbook is worth a read. It won't get you the experience you need but it will lay a pretty decent foundation and you can read it while you're looking for live sound work.

Everyone I know personally who mixes for bands, including myself, started by doing grunt labor for little to no money, proved they were useful and started getting asked to go to gigs, hauled lots of boxes, wound lots of cable, and did more grunt work. Then got to mix monitors. Then eventually FOH. As word gets around town that you mix well and are reliable more jobs come your way and off you go.

Volunteer, get yourself a small PA, help a friend, whatever just find a way to start mixing bands. Jump at any chance to work with a good engineer and go from there. And don't quit your day job. :)

Thanks for this. I just ordered a whole pile of stuff on Amazon with Prime. Came out to be a good bit cheaper than your estimate. I traded down on a couple of things like the vocal mics (Behringers for 1/3 the price) and direct boxes (half the price). The big thing I skimped on to make my budget was the mixer - I got a Behringer 12-channel mixer with great reviews for about $90. Hopefully it will get the job done.

Definitely couldn't have figured out what to buy without you. Hopefully this is everything we need for a great summer and beyond!

1. Okay! I actually already have one of those products for output of the sound to the players through the gamepad of the Wii U (it has an aux out on it I send to the headphone amp to then send to two different speakers with optional headsets hooked up to the speaker). Looks like I should pick up one more!
   
   
2. With the alternative option, would a Focus Scarlett 2i2 be able to produce what you said? I already own it as it has been my setup for the past year. I literally might have to draw a diagram of what you said to confirm I understand what you wrote out by the way. haha. (I'd just plug the USB in to the computer for simply power I'd assume).
   
   
3. Thanks! I will definitely just continue to be curious and look into everything I can!
   
   I guess this is my last two questions (for now).
   
   What USB Mixer do you recommend at my price point ($300 with tax max)? So far the two options I've looked at were the Mackie I listed before and then the Behringer Xenyx X2222USB. I actually am leaning towards the Behringer right now since it has an Earth Loop function (I've had troubles with that on my Focusrite sometimes) and it seems to have more options with outputs and such. If you have any other suggestions for another USB Mixer, what I should be looking for, and just general assesments and recommendations I'd definitely love to hear it. If I have any further questions that come up later, can I DM you?

I found Ni-MH rechargeables to be fairly unreliable, not due to the batteries themselves but with the bodypacks' battery indicators. Due to the wide variety of Ni-Mh batteries on the market that all have different characteristics that will affect their performance, especially how they are charged over their usable lifetime, it's pretty difficult to get a good readout on just how much juice you have left with any given set of batteries. Shure has documented this difficulty and their battery life estimates for Ni-MH batteries vary widely. I can only imagine that other manufacturers face the same difficulties.


You can help alleviate this by manually gathering data yourself from the battery through the use of a smart charger that will also help you keep the battery life stable if used to charge properly. But even with this insight on hand, I was having a hard time relaying the info to performers who tended to freak out when their batteries go from a full 5 bars and then the battery indicators suddenly start tanking. I had seen a graph (From PowerStream's own tests) and read some info (That I can't recall the links of off hand, but I remember reading on flashlight websites and forums) that indicated with Ni-Mh a steady voltage over a certain time period with a sharp drop off of voltage near it's end of life depending on the power draw. That tracked pretty well with my use with the Shure bodypacks which would indicate a full 4-5 bars over a short time period and then rapidly go down to 2 bars. Contrast that with off-the-shelf AA and proprietary Li-Ion batteries which have a fairly consistent set of characteristics and a steady, smooth voltage drain that leads to a predictable battery life that manufacturers are able to tune for in their battery indicator algorithms.

Edit: And that claim on the radio transmissions sounds like BS to me unless they're just referencing possibly poorer transmitter/receiver performance as the batteries die out.

Practice this!

Buy This or something similar.

Make sure you can do This!

Also, a good cable tester, a Behringer CT 100 will suffice.

If you can wrap cables in a hurry, have a flashlight, know how to troubleshoot and repair cables then you will be pretty valuable.

Also, re-read what /u/PM_me_guinea_pigs had to say above, he hits the nail on the head!

Don't be late, don't drink, don't do drugs, you will be ok!

That would do the job but it’s honestly a little lacking for that price range.

I’d honestly recommend this one

Little bit more money, but waaaay more features. It’ll also have pre/post fader switches which will be instrumental in the setup you’re talking about.

I'd recommend getting an inexpensive outlet/receptacle tester and testing any outlet that you will be plugging equipment into. If it doesn't test correctly, notify the staff at the building and don't use it. It's not the complete solution, but it is a great start.....

Something like this...... https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000RUL2UU/ref=s9_acsd_top_hd_bw_bxldN_c_x_1_w?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=merchandised-search-3&pf_rd_r=HWWEYSS763CCFCJ6GS1R&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=e32b96c7-50a4-5f19-ae33-9408ab96b97e&pf_rd_i=14244461

First, the most important thing is mic placement. Get those mics up and over the choir, angle them down, and follow the 3:1 rule.

As far as what micc to use, the Behringer C-2 are a great mic for the money. They come as a matched pair for only $60. I encourage you to watch the video and read the reviews before dismissing them based on name or price. I've used them on choirs, drums, guitars, and just about everything else and they always do a great job. They come with basic windscreens, but you can put some dead cats on them if you're in a really windy environment.

$50 Sony MDR-v6 headphones. These are what I use for most of my live gigs, they're good enough to do a very good job, and not so expensive that I'm scared to take them out of the studio. Usually they run around 80-90, this is a pretty great deal.

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-MDRV6-Studio-Monitor-Headphones/dp/B00001WRSJ/ref=lh_ni_t?tag=slicinc-20&ascsubtag=0db60ae04067459583c3fa7a3b784ad6&ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

Yes, the XLR and 1/4" are wired in parallel, and both active at the same time. If you need to split, you'd need [two of] something like this.

Why not just get some xlr y adaptors for the time being and run that way. Then what you do for the podcast doesn't matter what you do live.

Hosa YXM-121 XLR3F to Dual XLR3M Y Cable, 6 inch https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000068O59/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_hpRLBb78XPTAP

Run the podcast setup like normal. Take the other set of sends and plug them into a sound board. Have the laptop plugged into the sound board for whatever tracks you need to play back live as well? I guess I'm not familiar enough with your saw stuff if you can just send the tracks and not the mics with the way you have it set up.

I think you've got a lot of good points in here, but I'm going to nit-pick at one:

>You can also learn about rigging from taking a look at their nightmare rigging pictures on fb.


I don't think you can glean much useful information from a picture on the internet, especially if you don't have any background knowledge to know that what you're looking at is bad. Jay Glerum's book is a good place to start for fundamental stuff - though nothing is a substitute for real world experience. I feel like looking at pictures of bad rigging makes you a rigger like looking at kittens on the internet makes you veterinarian.

Ok, I think I am going to go with those, now I just have to get my shopping list together for the secretary to buy them for me. As I understand it I will need...

The Behringer speaker x2

Speaker stand x2

Now the part im not sure about, the cables. The way I have been understanding it is I want to connect the new speakers to the "monitor out" on the portable PA thing, which are 1/4" jacks, but I see people talking about XLR cables? Where would I plug the xlr cables on the PA thing? Isn't XLR the ones on the PA marked "microphone"? Or can I just buy 2 1/4" to 1/4" cables and then connect them from the monitor out to the speakers?

​

I will probably also need a couple of extension cables because as I understand it I will need a devote an outlet slot to each of the Behringer speakers so I will need power running back to the power strip? The only thing I am concerned about now is will I have 2 extra power cables running across the floor to each of the speakers?

Amazon.com under the used section, they are refurbished, but i just got mine and they look like they were never opened

You want something like This. That would get plugged into the "line in" input in your picture

Edit: Just kidding, don't do this.

This is as good a solution as any. Most of the very cheap USB interfaces are probably the same re-branded microchips anyway.

I was going to suggest a Lexicon Alpha ($60), which has a mic plug, a headphone plug, and line outputs that could go to the TV. The mic goes straight in, but would limit you to mono game audio (2 channels: 1 is used for the mic). You can then sell/ditch the mixer entirely, maybe getting back some of the cost.

Links to gear posted above:

Behringer X18 Air rack mount mixer: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/XR18

Drum mics: http://www.amazon.com/Pyle-Pro-PDKM7-Microphone-Mounting-Accesories/dp/B003FW0IHA

GLS Audio Mics (I also recommend their XLR cables): http://www.speakerrepair.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=genem&Category_Code=microphones

EV powered speakers: http://www.zzounds.com/item--ELVELX112?siid=99167&gclid=CIHX2a-XqMQCFdccgQoda5EAxw

Mic stands: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/on-stage-stands-mic-stand-package

> I've come to realize that the whole venue isnt properly grounded aftering dealing with this hiss/hum from all the mains.

You have actually tested the grounding right? You're not just making an assumption? These things cost like $10. http://amzn.com/B000RUL2UU

sound reenforcement handbook for fundamentals

https://www.amazon.com/Sound-Reinforcement-Handbook-Gary-Davis/dp/0881889008/ref=pd_bxgy_14_img_3?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=0881889008&pd_rd_r=CCG9CPVAPDH3ECTFGHMA&pd_rd_w=C5R8y&pd_rd_wg=5hRnU&psc=1&refRID=CCG9CPVAPDH3ECTFGHMA

system set up and optimization

https://www.amazon.com/Sound-Systems-Optimization-Techniques-Alignment/dp/0415731011/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1496423594&sr=8-1&keywords=sound+system+design+and+optimization

deeper fundamentals and underlying theory behind systems,

https://www.amazon.com/Sound-System-Engineering-Don-Davis/dp/0240818466/ref=pd_sim_14_10?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=0240818466&pd_rd_r=HSPA70XSS4QNR9DZF1P5&pd_rd_w=5ywPt&pd_rd_wg=X1Td5&psc=1&refRID=HSPA70XSS4QNR9DZF1P5

approachable fundamentals, but not too much deeper theory - kind of a up and running style of book

https://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Operators-Handbook-Guides-online/dp/1617805599/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

Oh, no way. You have to be mindful of them getting bad memory (solved with a full discharge/recharge cycle ever now and then), but they're the way to go. We were blowing through about forty AAs a day with audience mics, and switched to rechargeable a few years ago. About every 18 months we add new batteries to replace what's gone bad/lost.
Save yourself some headache and get these chargers. We've tried four different types of chargers, and all have fallen apart or killed batteries within a year. The lacrosse chargers are excellent.

Also, why is it so important that they are balanced?

Would [this] (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lexicon-Alpha-Studio-Audio-Interface/dp/B000HVXMNE/ref=sr_1_1?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1421803480&sr=1-1&keywords=audio+interface) be alright?

Okay, would this work?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000068O36/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

"Mixing Audio" by Roey Izhaki
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0240522222

Buying this book and following along with his exercises was the best experience I've had in trying to grasp compression techniques. Seriously, he walks you through using compression as a simple utility, as an effect, and as a way to apparently move your instruments forward or back in the mix. Very cool.

You'll want to kill the band from the examples by the middle of the book.

You know, at some point I probably should have figured out what the power requirements for our rig was, but really at the end of the day it's not like the halls were going to change their wiring for us (and I wasn't doing a permanent install).

I eventually got sick of the spaghetti balls of cables, extenders, strips etc and ended up using this and [these] (www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0045W3OO8) and they really made life a lot easier, combined with a couple super long cables to avoid having to use breakout boxes.

Personally I would use an LTIblox and an XLR cablefor this situation. It will take your 3.5mm headphone jack and send it to mic level XLR with an easy to access volume dial. Its not the cheapest solution, but it is what I would do.

For a small venue she could probably just use a BEHRINGER EUROLIVE B210D $199 on Amazon Prime https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002C4QWXQ

I would put it up on a stand ($22) https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000E0PPG0

My band uses one of these as our main PA for our digital piano and vox (via a Yamaha MG10 mixer) when we practice.

It's too old. Here's a brand new board on amazon that has more features and costs about the same.

http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-XENYX-1202FX-Premium-12-Input/dp/B000J5Y214/ref=sr_1_6?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1407231905&sr=1-6&keywords=sound+mixer

You don't need to run it stereo, just buy something like an LTI block, or just a 3.5 to xlr. We use LTI blocks for everything from laptops to iPads, phones, etc. Don't run phantom power on that channel. Looks like you cant turn it off to specific channels, so use a DI so that you dont fry anything


https://www.amazon.com/Rapco-Horizon-LTIBLOX-Laptop-Interface/dp/B003MLFCMA

AT2021 - 79$: https://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-AT2021-Cardioid-Condenser-Microphone/dp/B005OCZOA0/ref=sr_1_1?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1538709519&sr=1-1&keywords=at2021

​

Behringer C2's - 69$ for a PAIR of 2: https://www.amazon.com/Behringer-C-2-BEHRINGER/dp/B000CZ0RLU/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

​

Samson C02's - 99$ for a PAIR of 2: https://www.amazon.com/Samson-C02-Pencil-Condenser-Microphones/dp/B0002D0KBE/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

I use a Streamlight Stylus Pro - The momentary-press function of the switch is really handy.

yes.

Honestly, and I hate to admit it, this little guy does a lot better than it should for as dirt cheap as it is. I would grab a couple and beat them up for a while before I trusted them live onstage, but for the money (and you get what you pay for) they are stupid better than they should be.

I keep this cable with me for just this purpose. If you have a spare wireless kit on site plug your mixer send into the cable, the cable into a transmitter pack, and then hook the receiver up to the speaker across the room.

https://www.amazon.com/Hosa-CMP-310-inch-Interconnect-Cable/dp/B000068O3I

Or

https://www.amazon.com/Hosa-CMS-110-Stereo-Interconnect-Cable/dp/B000068O36

Books on rigging!

One Book,

Two Books,


Three Books!

You can totally do this with belt packs, you just need the correct cable to get into the belt pack. For Shure's it's this one.

Depending on how much time is involved, you may want to rig up or buy battery eliminators instead of swapping batteries.

You might be able to find a rental company to source a couple TX/RX sets of Neutrik's Xirium system.

Whirlwind has a laser-based system that might be more available than the Xirium stuff, since that's brand new.

Getting four channels of Shure XLS and four of the belt pack XLR cables might be your cheapest option though.

My bad, I was blissfully unaware of that rule. We mix on a Behringer X32 Producer and use the SLX series from Shure along with some cheap headworn omnidirectional mics (these I think, but I'm not 100% sure about that) with the beltpacks.

I use these: Furman SS6B 6 Plug Surge Protector https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002D017M/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_rVIrybMJCAHW1

Edit: generic power strips tend to be noisy. These units from Furman don't condition the power, but they help block emi and rfi. They also have a metal case and can take a lot of abuse. They also make rack-mount units that do condition power, which are popular in studios.