(Part 2) Top products from r/oregon

If you're going to go east, which I cannot recommend highly enough, you will need a copy of the Benchmark Oregon Road & Recreation Atlas, which shows the back roads and campgrounds. Do not neglect this. Take Hwy 31 to Paisley, which was once a two-fisted cowboy town complete with its own whorehouse. From Paisley, use your atlas to find the gravel roads through the ZX Ranch, at 1 million acres the largest in the United States. You want to end up at U.S. 395 at Abert Rim. Hang a right and drive past Abert Lake to the town of Lakeview. At the intersection of 395 and Oregon Hwy. 140, in a red brick building that's easy to miss, you will find the Snack Shack, which serves a hamburger as good as any you will eat anywhere in the whole country.

You will now be in the Great Basin, a vast and impossibly romantic steppe (high altitude desert) that comprises most of Nevada and parts of Oregon, California, Utah, and Idaho. All rain and snow that falls there stays there, i.e. does not reach any ocean by way of tribuaries and rivers. It is probably the most remote area in the country outside of Alaska; for example, the visitor's HQ at the Hart Mtn Nat'l Antelope Refuge is farther away from an Interstate than any other spot in the Lower 48. This cattle and cowboy country; Harney County, east of Lakeview, is the ninth largest county in the U.S., and the 8th largest cattle county.

From Lakeview, there are some choices to make. The shortest route would be by way of Plush, a wide spot in the road with a cafe, through the Hart Mtn refuge. Go up to Steens Mtn., which at 9,200 feet is the tallest summit that you can drive to in Oregon and I think the entire Pacific NW. There's a loop road, and some camp grounds. It'll be on your atlas. Take it. Wind your way back to Burns and U.S. 395, then drive north. If you do that, you'll miss a lot but you will have gotten the essential landscapes. You also will have gone through the Malheur Nat'l Wildlife refuge, famous for the variety of birds. It was the first wildlife refuge in the U.S., set aside a little more than 100 years ago by Teddy Roosevelt.

The longer route would be to take Oregon 140 into Nevada (another spectacular drive) all the way to U.S. 95. Hang a left, and drive north. Look for Whitehorse Ranch Rd. and hang a left. Well-maintained gravel road that ends at Oregon Hwy. 205. You can stay on that all the way to Frenchglen, or to that Steen's Loop Road that I mentioned. Find your way to Oregon Hwy. 78 and rejoin U.S. 95. Look for Leslie Gulch Rd., which takes you through spectacular landscapes to the Owyhee reservoir. RV sites. Go back out and drive to Ontario (a true dump of a town) and find U.S. 20.

Take U.S. 20 through more spectacular landscapes to Burns. Hang a right on U.S. 395 and find the town of Seneca. Take Forest Service Rd. 16 to Hwy. 62 and back to Prairie City. Hang a right on U.S. 26, making sure to stop at the top of the hill for a killer view of the Strawberry Mountains that you drove around on 16 and 62. Hang a left at Oregon Hwy. 7 and drive to Baker City, arguably the nicest little town in Eastern Oregon, and with some surprisingly good food.

At Baker City, get on I-84 toward Portland. But do not pass up the Oregon Trail Interpretive Center about 5 miles out. It's definitely worth the two hours. Tells the whole story of the largest mass migration in modern North American history.

You can do the short way in a few days, and the long way in about a week or so. I cannot recommend the long way highly enough, but if the high desert ain't your cup of tea then do the shorter way and take 395 all the way to Pendleton and I-84. Either way, you'll have driven through a region chock full of Western history, which I can talk about if you want. You'll be way out there in the Great Nowhere, but not beyond help if you need it. If you're carrying a cellphone, Verizon's the carrier to have out there. By far the best coverage. But do NOT rely on it and Google maps and/or your vehicle's nav system to the exclusion of that atlas I recommended.

The roads I've mentioned are very good, but don't be foolishly unprepared. Make sure to have good tires and to know how to change one. Carry more water than you think you will need, and keep an eye on the gas gauge because the stations are few and far between. And this is not sandals and shorts country. There are plenty of rattlesnakes out there, so a pair of suede cowboy boots and long pants are essentials. And have a hat and sunglasses and sun screen. Watch where you walk, especially at the Owyhee reservoir.

I haven't listed all the places, but I've hit the highlights. It's a truly spectacular region of America, not well traveled because it's so far away. That's actually the saving grace. There are places out there that, except for the roads, are otherwise unchanged in >100 years. And you'll have a lot of it mostly to yourselves, with the exception of a pickup truck every now and again.

> Rhetoric like this doesn't help the discussion.

Actually, the truth is helpful, but it can be uncomfortable. I meant "supporters" like Trump means "taxpayers".

The right wing or GOP are typically associated with and supported by the extractive industries like logging and mining. Salvage logging is still controversial among ecologists with soil erosion being a prime concern. So any place with the steep slopes of the Columbia River Gorge should not be considered.

Greg knows this, but he made the recommendation to salvage log anyway. That was unhelpful. It fits the pattern of grabbing and extracting while relaxing environmental controls at every step. It's just how the GOP operate when it comes to natural resources.

> I really would like to understand the motivation behind this

If you haven't yet, read The Big Burn for starters. This battle over the forests of America has been going on a long time and it's part of a bigger battle against the 0.001%.

> The concept of economic libertarianism depends on the notion that competition will always lead to the best winning out, but it ignores the fact that not everyone begins the race from the same starting line;

The philosophy does not ignore that. If you wish to learn about Laissez-faire economics I would start with this book http://www.amazon.com/Economics-One-Lesson-Shortest-Understand/dp/0517548232 It is an introductory book on the matter if only to help you better criticise it. I find that many on Reddit have a distorted cartoonist view of libertarianism, as if they learned about it from New York Times cartoons or something. I don't expect to convince more then three people of libertarianism in my lifetime, but would love to have more discussions about it with people who at least know what they are talking about.

The Wallowas is by far the most beautiful part of Oregon there is. It is pretty much unheard of for someone to go there and think differently.

However, it is more of backpacking then hiking, mostly because of the nature of it's location. It is a little late in the season this point, but if you want to really explore Oregon, I can think of no better vacation then a week spent backpacking the Wallowas. Pretty much just go ahead and mark your calendar for next year.

Should note, it isn't super easy. About 2 notches harder than Eagle Creek in the gorge I'd say, but well worth it.

If you are serious about hiking Oregon, I'd suggest the book Backpacking Oregon: From Rugged Coastline to Mountain Meadow.
http://www.amazon.com/Backpacking-Oregon-Rugged-Coastline-Mountain/dp/0899974414/ref=pd_sim_b_2

Don’t need future scientists, current scientist already figured out

What's the Matter with Kansas?: How Conservatives Won the Heart of America
https://www.amazon.com/dp/080507774X/

There's always 'North Bend' in the 'Images of America' series. It has information detailing Gorse and his innovations. It's available locally through the Coos County Historical Society. Also, http://www.amazon.com/North-Bend-Images-America-Series/dp/0738581356 .

You may also simply wander down here and enjoy our historical markers and the information to be had in the museums here.

Yeah, the interwebs still have massive gaps in them. Fifteen minutes at a laptop won't get you a lot of good stuff that's out there.

I would recommend buying and bringing these books to help you find good nature spots:

http://www.amazon.com/Oregons-Best-Coastal-Beaches-Quick-reference/dp/1571883649/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1367888803&sr=1-2&keywords=oregon+beaches

and

http://www.amazon.com/100-Hikes-Travel-Guide-Oregon/dp/0981570119/ref=pd_sim_b_1

The Cascades will be your best playground. Get this book and you'll be set. The whole series on Oregon is actually indispensable.

This is a bit weird, but there's a fun book about edible plants in the Pacific NW: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1551055309/ref=cm_sw_r_tw_dp_x_CuGiybADGAT2P

Yes, every town. Well, every town in this very detailed map - http://www.amazon.com/Benchmark-Oregon-Recreation-Atlas-Third/dp/0929591887 - which is our bible for the project.

>I don't see how that matters

If you don't understand why this matters, I would suggest you read up on race relations and the cause and effect of modern day segregation. A good starting point on this is this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Black-Kids-Sitting-Together-Cafeteria/dp/0465083617

Mormons do crazy really well.

The Oregon Experiment is worth a read.

Apparently portapotties are completely rented out, so here's a resource that might come in handy.

Well, this is sort of cheating - but since you have so little time you should consider this book.

http://www.amazon.com/Photographers-Guide-Oregon-Coast-Perfect/dp/088150534X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1457317482&sr=1-1&keywords=photographing+oregon+coast

The lead exposure is an interesting angle I haven't thought of. I have been pretty sick of boomers' collective BS and ruining of our country and state for a while now. I recently read this book, which basically lays out the case that boomers are sociopaths only concerned with getting as much for themselves as possible. The author discusses how they were raised in ways totally different from previous and following generations and then uses mountains of data to ram home the point of how shitty they have been for the country. I have been recommending it to everyone I know that reads.

I'll debate you if you can tell me what the minimum wage is in Germany.

Here's a couple starter links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_wages_by_country

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-28140594

Then distill for me into a paragraph the effect of that on Germany's business competitiveness. Or whatever the fuck metrics you want. Please address Does the Minimum Wage Hurt Workers?
and The minimum wage has always been bad and will continue to be a bad idea.

If a paragraph isn't enough, take more. Do a thousand or ten thousand words if you want.

I can do it in a sentence: It has fuck-all to do with it.

Let your mocking of me begin.


edit: If you really want to do a good job, The Oxford Handbook of Panel Data is now on pre-order at Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Oxford-Handbook-Panel-Data-Handbooks/dp/0199940045

I have a review galley and it's excellent.

I think the story of Oregon's first murder is crazier.

Nimrod: Courts, Claims, And Killing On The Oregon Frontier