(Part 3) Top products from r/wma

> Honestly, I don't think we will agree on this. But the debate is the fun part and allows us to explore and strengthen our own ideas.

You're probably right, though I'm sure we'd get closer in person. And I agree, the debate is interesting, and that's why I originally asked. I believe I sort of understand the issue, but I definitely want to understand it better. But I'll keep this one short:

1. It's good to remember that very few historical European martial arts have left us any solo forms similar to katas. The bolognese masters and spadone/montante are the only ones I'm familiar with -- that plus a few, often loosely described, cutting drills e.g. in Meyer or some later military saber sources. Pair drills exist in the sources, but the footwork in them is often described in very general terms if at all -- simply because if there's a slightest change in the circumstances, such as exactly how the opponent moves, then so must your movement change.
   
   Where these solo forms exist in the sources, you definitely should study and perform them. Where they don't, I'd be really careful about making up your own and thinking/claiming they represent the art in question.
   
   
2. There seems to be a fair amount of good advice in that "deliberate practice" material, although I'm slightly off-put by his habit of using super-performers, geniuses, genetic freaks, and prodigies as evidence.
   
   If you wish to read more about what modern cognitive science has to say about how a more average person might learn most efficiently, the book Make It Stick: The Science of Successful Learning by Brown, Roediger, and McDaniel seems like a good quick overview.
   
   For a more in-depth look there's Google Scholar, providing us with gold like the 1992 Schmidt & Bjork article New Conceptualizations of Practice: Common Principles in Three Paradigms Suggest New Concepts for Training,
   which you can find at http://hp-research.com/sites/default/files/publications/Schmidt%20%26%20Bjork%20(PS,%201992)_0.pdf.

Dimicator on facebook is one place for pretty great info on sword and buckler.

As for books... You could go with the pretty outdated Sword and Buckler book from Chivalry Bookshelf. Found here on Amazon.

Then there is new book (BTW thanks for having me look this up, I didn't even know this existed)

Next in line would be Manciolino.

You could also try looking at Lignitzer through Wiktenauer.com. That is going to more updated than David Lindholm's books (two links btw), or Christian Tobler's. But, it is nice to have physical copies.

Read (Fencing Master ; and the best fencer of his time) Aldo Nadi's book "On Fencing" for historical reference and then just continue to do whatever your coaches say because sport fencing isn't about striking textbook poses ; it's about winning bouts. That said, I think it IS important to learn the historical reasons for the actions fencers do because it helps the fencer understand when they should do each action and why.

That said, sport fencing is the natural continuation of the old fencing masters. Sport fencing today is taught by the students (and students of students) of the "old masters." Sport fencing institutions (their rules, their coaching training, their referee training, etc...) are all built on the foundations and trainings of their "old master" coaches. And those, "old masters" aren't that far back, time wise ; maybe 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6 generations...

To say some NEW tangential school (one of the HEMA/WMA groups), regardless for the reverence of the old teachings, is the true inheritor of that tradition is a bit silly and a lot narcissistic.

The things you learn from your coach IS classical fencing. Learning how to control distance, attack, parry, etc... these are all foundational strategies/actions passed down by the "old masters" of yesteryear to your coach (assuming you have decent coach), and now to you. Even if electrical fencing and modern steel-alloys have changed it at a superficial level.

There exists no specific written material of tomahawk use but there have been some exploratory stuff done by bowie knife enthusiasts that match the two together. It is mostly a modern interpretation based off period sabre/cutlass drills. Link: https://www.amazon.com/Fighting-Tomahawk-Illustrated-Guide-Weapons/dp/1581604416

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Hatchet and round shield does not exist as a source. For round shield, Scottish targe is closest but even then there are precious few resources dedicated to how to use it.

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If you are interested in axes & round shield in particular, you may find more information from reenactment or larp groups than from HEMA groups as we don't really 'do' axes unless they come in the form of a poleaxe. And even then, mostly in harness.

Are you looking for history of the region and culture or historical treatises?

A single compendium of treatises that I (with a lot of help from others) put together.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1trCQd0eCL8cyaJGKIOkr8rPSSGtaOC7I0nw2PvAQaAw/edit?usp=sharing

For "old style" broadsword the most important texts are probably Hope, Wylde, McBane, Page, Miller, and Lonnergan. For the later "regimental" broadsword styles look at Sinclair, Angelo, Taylor, Mathewson, and Roworth. Roworth is the most accessible for a new practitioner.

Cateran Society is probably the single go to source, though there would be others. If you had to buy one book it would be "Lessons from the Broadsword Masters" which effectively combines his previous books. This will give you a good grounding on the cultural and military history of the region and then an a comprehensive look at the techniques and approaches.
https://www.amazon.com/Lessons-Broadsword-Masters-Christopher-Thompson/dp/0359139639

Unortunately Wagner and Rector's "Highland Broadsword" book is out of print. https://www.amazon.com/Highland-Broadsword-Scottish-Regimental-Swordsmanship/dp/1891448218
The included treatises/manuals can all be sourced elsewhere now but there are some essays that would be nice to be able to read.

Scottish Broadsword is nice but not necessary, I would consider it informative once you have a main core of research and practice done.
https://www.amazon.com/Scottish-Fencing-Small-Sword-Broadsword-Battlefield/dp/0999056735/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_img_0?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=33678FJ3DZY411T3YJA9

There were definitely historical occult activities and secret orders involved throughout the medieval and renaissance periods in Europe and we know of a few Knights involved with them. What you are looking for is not within the scope of HEMA as this moniker relates only to the "martial arts" of European history. However, there are some I am certain that are still involved in the martial arts of HEMA and also still engaged in fraternal orders and mystical contemplation. No doubt you will discover modern fencers who are also adepts of some order such as Rosicrucianism. You can find some basic info about this order here: https://www.amazon.com/Secret-Doctrines-Rosicrucians-Ancient-Mysteries-ebook/dp/B01B1JGKUW/ref=pd_sim_351_35?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B01B1JGKUW&pd_rd_r=9da93dff-bff3-4796-b714-17cd93f896ff&pd_rd_w=CLoqa&pd_rd_wg=WsCE6&pf_rd_p=5abf8658-0b5f-405c-b880-a6d1b558d4ea&pf_rd_r=6XMHK2AQXK7NH91X70PN&psc=1&refRID=6XMHK2AQXK7NH91X70PN

It is also worthy to note that there are those involved in orders such as the Knights of Pythias. Case in point, one HEMA'ist who wrote a book on the modern application of Chivalry as a guide for inspired living can be found here: https://www.amazon.com/Knightly-Virtue-Living-Modern-World-ebook/dp/B07VN9DXM4/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=knightly+living&qid=1573049374&s=digital-text&sr=1-1

Hope this helps you on your search.

I practice "4) Another walking stick fighting style" actually staff.

It is hard to get instructional material, in book or video format. Any of Luis Preto books are great, but I advice this to start with:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Jogo-Pau-ancient-Portuguese-fighting/dp/1480228141/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8 and any others if you want to go a little deeper on it.

And as an extra spam, here is me having fun: https://www.instagram.com/frederico4d
you can get wood weapons for more technical training, and any kind of resiliant/flexible tubes that you can find, can be used with safety, with the common hema gear, and behaves really close to how wood does, even if it is lighter.

Historically the best you can get in my opinion is:
https://archive.org/details/JogodopauFredericoHopffer1924
if you can read Portuguese (I have a full translation but having it print ready, and the extra step to finish things up, it is not something im sure Ill do in the near future.)

• Contamine's War in the middle ages, dated but still useful
  
  
  
• Keen's Medieval Wafare
  
  
  
• DeVries' Infantry Warfare in the Fourteenth Century
  
  Those are a couple of good starting points.

I think a great place to start is with Tom Leoni's translation of Giganti.

https://www.amazon.com/Venetian-Rapier-Nicoletto-Gigantis-Curriculum/dp/0982591128

Jon Clement's ideas are currently widely considered to be rather outdated understandings of medieval swordsmanship by the HEMA community, whether or not you like the man as a person. I'd recommend this this book by Richard Marsden as a good starting point for an aspiring HEMAist.

If you can find an affordable copy, Anglo's Martial Arts of Rennaissance Europe is a great, thorough overview. Might be on the dry side for a 13 year old, but it's about sword fighting. It should keep their interest.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Martial-Arts-Renaissance-Europe/dp/0300083521

Or Marsden's HEMA in its context

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Historical-European-Martial-Arts-Context/dp/0984771662/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?keywords=Marsden+hema&qid=1566727440&s=gateway&sr=8-1

Clement's early books are pretty awful. There, I said it.

http://www.amazon.com/Manual-Of-The-Baratero-Handling/dp/1581604718

yes all the manuals we are using are in english, that is the main one there. I'll have to ask what the other manuals are as I don't remember the names. I know the savat one is available as a free pdf, ill come back with a list once I know.

These are books with images, theories, and explanations on how to fight.

There are a couple out there but they are as the same as they are different just like any Martial Art.

Example of a book for German Longsword and other weapons

Well, we've not done dagger fighting in years now, so "current" is a bit inexact. But, at the time, the go-to was Jason Vail's Medieval and Rennaisance Dagger Combat: https://amzn.com/158160517X

But I also went to direct sources, chief of which was Codex Wallerstein: https://amzn.com/1581605854

This: armor and equipment can protect you from cutting and stabbing, there’s nothing to protect you from the blunt force trauma of collapsing your spine.

Davenriche in San Jose, Ca runs periodic quarter staff workshops, but even then the instructors are very careful, and it’s primarily choreography based out of distance. This is a school that has weekly full plate sparring nights and hosts regional competitions. The owner literally wrote a book on longswords .

The example you are thinking of might be from the records of the interrogation of Samuel Probst, who killed a journeyman printer in a fencing match in 1595 in Augsburg, Germany. After city officials establishing that he and the deceased had no ill will, and after the fencing school masters petitioned on his behalf, he was released with no punishment.

You can find the account in several places, but the best place is in Ann Tlusty's Augsburg During the Reformation Era. It is also mentioned and contextualized in Tlusty's more famous (and expensive) work, The Martial Ethic in Early Modern Germany.

https://www.amazon.com/Augsburg-During-Reformation-Era-Anthology/dp/160384841X

https://www.amazon.com/Martial-Ethic-Early-Modern-Germany/dp/1349366471

I may have misread the OP, but I don't think that the claim was that sabre is comparable to longsword, but that the differences between longsword and epee is about as much as the difference between epee and sabre. The weapons and their use are very different, but both can be taught within the same general framework.

As for a coach teaching you to move correctly - see my earlier post. A modern coach with no interest in HEMA will obviously not be able to teach you to move correctly for longsword fencing, but a modern coach who also knows longsword will be able to adapt their teaching style to train you to move correctly.

One thing that is tricky about fencing is that the way it is presented to students is usually different from the way it is presented to coaches, so if you've mostly learned within a club, you probably have less exposure to the theory and the pedagogy of teaching as someone who's been training to be an instructor. There are a couple of books that are written from this perspective that you might be interested in:

Understanding Fencing by Zbigniew Czajkowski

Fencing and the Master by Lazlo Szabo

Foil Fencing by Istvan Lukovich

Here are a couple of modern secondary sources which might be of use:

https://www.amazon.com/Newer-Shorter-Easier-Method-Fencing/dp/0956487165/

https://www.amazon.com/Modern-Manual-Smallsword-Fencing-ebook/dp/B00TIWMIYM/

Here's a good list of original treatises:

https://smallswordproject.com/historic-texts/

Modern sport fencing will certainly teach a lot of what you need for smallsword fencing, but it will also teach some very bad habits. If you can't find any means of getting smallsword training then by all means take it up. Avoid "sabre" and pistol grips, and take a look at the foil section of Hutton's "The Swordsman":

https://www.amazon.com/Swordsman-Manual-Defence-Against-Uncivilised/dp/1845743652