(Part 3) Top products from r/worldnews

Not OP, but spent time on attack subs myself.

1. Rescues are possible well beyond the normal operating depths of a submarine. Check out this Wiki about the Navy's Deep Submergence Rescue Vehicle.
   
   
2. The problem isn't whether there is capability, it is whether the North Koreans would allow us anywhere close to the situation to help. Russia/the USSR has lost a surprising amount of submarines over the years that the US may have been able to save. Pride and politics stand in the way. There is international law regarding/mandating the rescue of mariners in distress, too. In contrast, there have been at least a couple occasions where we were able to help with foreign sub rescues.
   
   
3. Can't answer for OP, but I will say most people in the sub force prefer "submariner," but pronounced like submarine-er. English speakers tend to pronounce the word like submariner. This is said to be offensive, as it implies the person is a sub-par mariner, rather than a person in the submarine force. As far as the coolest stuff that happens/happened on submarines, check out Blind Man's Bluff: The Untold Story of American Submarine Espionage. It's a fascinating collection of stories that can be neither confirmed nor denied.

>giving Glenn Greenwald a megaphone to spout his baseless venom however, is wildly unprofessional.

What specifically do you mean by 'baseless venom'?

I've watched his lectures at colleges, his debates on TV amongst the different news stations across the globe and read With Liberty and Justice for Some and not once have I ever thought his arguments were 'baseless' because he provides facts and empirical evidence that can be looked up and verified.

More recently the message he usually conveys is that he wants to shed light on what powerful people are doing in the dark. i.e. The NSA constructing a world wide, indiscriminate spy network that can be used against anyone at the whim of those who control it. Something that was considered wild conspiracy theory only 4 months ago.

How is this a bad thing? To want to inform the public of what powerful people are doing in the dark? To promote the ideal that investigative journalism is one of the main checks to power that we have?

Additionally his book "With Liberty and Justice for Some" gives quite a few examples about how there is a very real two tiered justice system dominant in the US. On one side you have the very rich who do not suffer for their crimes against humanity (Cheney/Bush & their false Iraq War, HSBC Laundering Billions for Drug Cartles, etc) and the full weight of the law coming down on petty drug offenses.

I can, however, understand how one would consider the words coming from Greenwald's mouth 'venemous'. His penchant for the truth and his debate skill usually cuts to the bone. Not once have I ever seen him lose a debate. Not once. And while that in and of itself is no indicator of the truthfulness of one's words ( this scene from Thank You For Smoking comes to mind ) it does merit a degree of respect. Especially when you do look up the things he has to say and find out they are rooted in truth.

Compare that with say, someone like Rush Limbaugh or Bill'O'Reily, who seem like divisive demagouges that appear to truly spout baseless venom. Many times when you look up what they have to say it's often half-truth or an outright lie. Twisted words for twisted people with twisted agendas.

Rush and Bill seem to feed off of and appeal to the very worst in humanity - fear, xenophobia, selfishness, greed - I don't see Glenn Greenwald doing the same kinds of things.

Yes. That is what you have been taught, the Zionest version of history. Seems there are alternate versions of this story.

Ever hear of Eustace Mullens? Of course his page has been defamed for his denouncing of Zionism. This is the regular, well-known Zionist stragegy, hiding behind Judaism. I have nothing against Jews. I have Jewish friends and hold respect for the culture. There are 'good Jews' and 'bad Jews', just like any other nationality.

This article talks about the subject of Nazi / Zionist connection.

Here is another one for you

Oh. Maybe you would of prefered some real, tangible historical documents?

Ok then, here you go.

Maybe reading is too much trouble? Here is a video for your pleasure.

You do realise, there are many many Jews that denounce Zionist policies.

I am curious, friend. Do you support Zionism, the Palestinian apartheid / ethnic cleansing?

I am not expecting any sense out of your answer, just some name-calling devoid of any facts.
I am giving you the benefit of a doubt maybe you can surprise me with a thoughtful answer.

I was confused at first when I read your post. You seemed to be saying that Juice_lix was using a rhetorical deflection (which is true -- it's called the But What About Gambit). But instead, you're saying that the people he's talking to have diverted the subject.

But that is not even the case. The original point was about rich countries versus poor countries. Which rich country do you think of first? For most people in the world, it's the United States.

So when someone points out the things the United States has done, your friend pulls out the Gambit and you accuse his opponents of changing the subject.

Repeatedly reminding people of the crimes of a person or group of people is not a rhetorical device, nor should it be considered overused. The fact is, someone is saying something that you don't like. Because meanwhile, Matt Taibbi is doing the same thing to Wall Street, and he's practically a folk hero because of it.

You can't just declare something as a rhetorical device because you don't want to hear it, disagree with it, or are uncomfortable with its implications. Truth is not a matter of personal choice. It has to be countered with facts, not accusations.

Besides, there's no such thing as an objective history book. Your friend is setting up an impossible standard so he can easily dismiss all comers. But if you want some stories on the subject, you'll find plenty of that to go around.

Not to mention that the idea of the Taliban running a perfect country is also laughable.

However, there are some more interesting complexities in this. From what I remember reading Ghost Wars (fucking brilliant book by the way), the Taliban were influenced by radical interpretations of Islam as was bin Laden's al-Qaeda, and both received money through Pakistan's ISI (their version of the CIA) and wealthy Saudi donors, as well as direct support from ISI in terms of logistics, supplies, and so on. Another layer of complexity, however, was that the Taliban evidently did not give a hoot about the US and bin Laden's conception of the US as the enemy to be toppled--they were just concerned about gaining power in Afghanistan and keeping to themselves, which makes sense considering that many of the Taliban were basically school-teachers and goat-herders turned Islamic radicals. Their Supreme Commander Mohammad Omar is said to have never have even been on an airplane or outside of his province of Kandahar, and thought the US a foreign irrelevance.

This latter fact (again, I think I recall these tidbits correctly) is probably a good explanation for why the Taliban and al-Qaeda are at odds. Imagine just minding your own business, trying to do your own take-over-the-country thing and not minding the superpowers of the world, and suddenly the actions of some dude the Taliban thought were chill and all suddenly invited the biggest superpower in the world to invade the country and completely destroy the power and 'legitimacy' of the Taliban.

Yeah, I'd be pissed at al-Qaeda too. Haha.

I'm sorry I'm a bit busy with work right now to research this properly, but one of the most interesting dynamics to follow right now in global politics is the ~reform MBS is attempting to implement in SA. It's been many years since I dug into any of this stuff deeply, but from what I understand, the export from SA of Wahabi ideology, beginning with Egypt and the foundation of the Muslim Brotherhood in the '50s, was a consequence of the arrangement made between Ibn Saud and the conservative militant tribes that provided him with the strength of arms he needed to dominate the Arabian Peninsula. It's really a fascinating subject, and if you're interested in learning more, I wholeheartedly recommend [Sleeping With The Devil, by Robert Baer] (https://smile.amazon.com/Sleeping-Devil-Washington-Saudi-Crude/dp/1400052688).

Why do you sound so surprised? It's similar in America. Once you stop talking about "the little people" (i.e. at least 99% of us reading this) it happens frequently.

It's just easier to see it going wrong somewhere else, because all the flag-waving and "for the good of the nation" crap is more transparently-absurd when it isn't your own flag and nation.

• Here in the US, we have politicians who admit (in interviews and memoirs) to behavior which are federal felonies... and also war-crimes (under multiple ratified treaties), yet our political class always just says "It's time to look forward, not back"[2] and sweeps it all under the rug. Virtually every US presidency in the last four decades (including the current one) has vigorously protected the members of the previous one from investigations or prosecutions, anything on the scale from outright pardons to refusal to prosecute to back-room (but still documented) lobbying efforts.
  
  
• Even outside political offices... A wealthy hedge fund manager slams into a bicyclist with his car, and flees the scene, eventually stopping to call for a tow-truck from a Pizza Hut parking lot so that he can get his car secretly repaired. The cyclist, on the other hand, ends up being rushed to the hospital with internal bleeding, spinal injuries that need surgery, and eventually plastic surgery for the scars to his face and body. The manager, meanwhile gets caught by the police, but gets off with a misdemeanor[1] because, in the words of the prosecutor, "felony convictions have some pretty serious job implications for someone in [his] profession".
  
  
• Example: Conversely, while that rich guy gets off light (because prosecuting him might interfere with Rich People's Money) there's an unarmed homeless man, who non-violently robbed a bank (with his hand in his pocket to suggest a gun) and who refused to take more than a single $100 bill, giving the rest back to the cashier. He turns himself in the next day and confesses to stealing so he could stay at the detox center, and gets a minimum of 15 years (!) of prison. He'll probably die in there from old age before he gets out, because mandatory minimum sentencing laws prevents the courts from doing much else.
  
  And that's not even touching what the US does to whistle-blowers who try to expose possible criminality within the government.
  
  For a more in-depth investigation of recent examples (and who benefitted from pardoning who, who was punished for whistleblowing,etc.) try: With Liberty and Justice for Some.
  
  ___
  
  [1] For those unfamiliar with US law, most crimes are separated into either misdemeanors (minor crimes of misbehavior, like littering or parking your car where you shouldn't) versus felonies (things which are either "evil" or at least incredibly reckless, like stealing or killing). The distinction between the categories can matter quite a lot in certain situations.
  
  [2] Another variation is "We're not here to seek revenge, we need to focus on keeping it from happening again... like we said last time... and the time before that... and the time before that...."

https://www.amazon.com/Sword-Shield-Mitrokhin-Archive-History/dp/0465003125

https://www.amazon.com/World-Was-Going-Our-Way/dp/0465003133

Read these. I'm fascinated with Russian political history, especially in regards to the KGB, and these books are the best of the best when you want to learn more. They get into the deep specifics on why things are done the way they are done. Since Putin was the head of the KGB, you really get an idea on why and how he does specific things.

Depends on your definition of a real thing. When a country has laws that incorporate their treaties into their own law, that's pretty real, in terms of the letter of the law.

It's just that we allow our leaders (or they allow themselves) to break the law, in general, when it suits them. (See With Liberty and Justice for Some by Glenn Greenwald [2011]).

> to really understand what's going on today in the middle east, you pretty much have to go back to the fall of the Ottoman Empire at the end of WW1, and then work your way forward from there

Absolutely. Actually one of my 2016 objectives was to gain a better understanding in Middle Eastern history which was something I really lacked. I am in no way an expert now but have a better idea on how everything unfolded post Ottoman Empire fall and I am genuinely disturbed at seeing how absolutely no one ever mentions any bit of relevant history in the media. The lack of any attempt at explanation is really bothering me :/

If you're interested, this book taught me a lot: A Peace to End All Peace: The Fall of the Ottoman Empire and the Creation of the Modern Middle East. Lots of very interesting stories about how the Middle East was built post-Ottoman empire!

And if someone wants more on Russia in general, this one was excellent, this Putin bio was pretty good and Putin's Kleptocracy is turning out promising.

And here's the Red Notice amazon page too, in case someone wants to read some reviews.

Read "Overthrow" by Stephen Kinzer. It's a great book that details all of the 14 governments the US has had a part in overthrowing. He does a great job of establishing the context in each situation, which often highlights how short sighted the people involved in these events really were.

Since you seem to like to read books, I recommend you read Overthrow: America’s Century of Regime Change from Hawaii to Iraq. If you would like a preview, you can watch the video interview. Please let me know whether video news site is blocked by the military firewalls.

I'd say look up quantitative easing on wikipedia then youtube. Maybe just youtube. If you read something and it doesn't seem to make sense just follow up on it.

Hmm and probably learn about how Western nations stifle the development of developing countries. http://www.amazon.com/dp/1843310279
That book and others by Ha-Joon Chang are pretty good.

Are you American? Matt Talibi is good, all the stuff I read isn't for people without trading knowledge.

www.nakedcapitalism.com is good but the author is there to cover news for the knowledgeable so it probably won't make sense to you

Russia has a 100+ year history of successfully interfering with other countries.

This is a must read for anybody interested in Russian government subversion.
https://www.amazon.com/Sword-Shield-Mitrokhin-Archive-History/dp/0465003125/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1483754893&sr=1-1&keywords=mitrokhin+archive

You serious? Because the British literally selected the tribal leader Ibn Saud and gave him control of what we now call Saudi Arabia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Saud#Rise_to_power

The Brits mistakenly believed that the King of Mecca was like a Muslim pope and everyone would fall in line behind him. So they created the boundary lines for Iraq and Jordan and placed his sons on the thrones. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hussein_bin_Ali,_Sharif_of_Mecca#Following_World_War_I

The founding of Israel was guaranteed by ex prime minister Balfour and later the Sykes-Picot agreement: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes%E2%80%93Picot_Agreement


Suggested reading:

http://www.amazon.com/Peace-End-All-Ottoman-Creation/dp/0805088091/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1453911664&sr=1-1&keywords=a+peace+to+end+all+peace

http://www.amazon.com/Kingmakers-Invention-Modern-Middle-East/dp/0393337707

I was reading the Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001 and it talked about how the American government was promoting a jihad against communism in Central Asia and paid to have Qurans translated into Uzbek and giving arms to radicals in the hope of triggering an anti-Soviet jihadi movement in the region. It's mentioned in this article as well:

>It did not have to be this way. Western intelligence during the Cold War always saw the region as poised for revolt, a potential dagger aimed at the heart of the "evil empire." During the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, the CIA had copies of the Koran translated into Uzbek and smuggled across the border in the hopes of starting an anti-Soviet jihad among the USSR's Muslims.

You don't know much about Hamas. Your metaphor would work if the "little kid" also went home and beat his younger siblings and used them like a sociopath to get back at the "bully".

For a good look into Hamas read Son of Hamas by Mosab Hassan Yousef.

I don't think you have any clue about American history. I recommend A People's History of the United States.

The world bank and the IMF aren't organizations who operate in the best interest of the world. It does what the biggest funder tells them to do (= USA).

1. You start a crisis in a country and force them to take a loan
   
2. You give them a loan but only if you can privatize all their public resources
   
3. You end up with all their wealth and you also receive money from the loan
   
   You can read about it in [The Shock Doctrine] (http://www.amazon.com/The-Shock-Doctrine-Disaster-Capitalism/dp/0312427999)

>Dude believe what you want but for every manuscript written by an islamic person there are ten thousand written non muslim that portray a brutal life under muslims.

This is something you want to be true, but isn't. You want it to be true, so you will never seek out information that contradicts it. I get the impression that you've never read a primary source written from within the Muslim empire. You've been told these things, but you're too intellectually lazy to wonder if they might be lies, misunderstandings, and myths. If you want to be spoonfed you interpretation of history instead of researching it yourself, that's your business. But don't claim to have knowledge of history if second hand accounts and Crusades-era anti-Islam propaganda are the shaky foundation you want to build your worldview on.

Once again, the image of Islam would be seriously shaken if you read something written by scholars, like No God but God or After the Prophet, or Orientalism. Unfortunately it's pretty clear that you lack the curiosity to verify what you believe.

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It's amazing. I'm very interested in Cold War espionage history and recently read this book:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Sword-Shield-Mitrokhin-Archive/dp/0465003125

Basically, the writers take the most outrageous and intriguing stories and background details from that book and put them into the show. I love it.

You'd be happier not watching the news. I haven't watched it in years. I scan the headlines online and read what is relevant or interesting.

Nassim Taleb makes a case for not watching the news in the great book The Black Swan. It just makes you unhappy, and it doesn't add depth to our understanding of "what's going on." Mostly it's just human interest stories. They're tragic, and they make the world seem scarier, but that doesn't add any understanding of anything.

I do not deny your statements.
But I cannot believe you missed everything about the rockets in schools and mosques and hospitals.
Medial reported it clearly, they also filmed Hamas militants firing rockets near homes of people.
Can you prove that my statements is lies?

I have read numerous reports of Hamas abusing their civilians and hiding weapons. Even UNWRA reported rockets hidden in their facilities. And not to mention the tunnels they dig.

How come Egypt is having a blockade against Gaza and destroying their tunnels?
Israel isn't innocent I agree, but you give the impression that the Palestinians are totally innocent of everything.
They are the biggest reason for not achieving peace in the middle east. The Israeli government in general wish is to have peace with the Palestinians, but Hamas only wish for every Jew in Israel to be killed.

You are totally biased in your way of reasoning.

Like I said, read Son of Hamas by Mosab Hassan Yousef
http://www.amazon.com/Son-Hamas-Gripping-Political-Unthinkable/dp/1414333080 and you'll get a more fair view of the situation.

Times are different than how it was pre -48 and Israel has indeed changed. There are idiots in israel, like in every nation, but the do not wish to kill every palestinian, like Hamas wants to kill every jew.

Here are some videos of Hamas firing rockets:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUrDAEgisXM
http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/Watch-Gazans-fire-rockets-from-school-and-cemetery-369063

Let's make a list of countries that do not (entirely) or considered not trading in the petrodollar

Russia (bad guys!)

China (bad guys!)

Iran (bad guys!!!!!)

Venezuela (RIP)

Libya (RIP)

Iraq (RIP)

The US Dollar hegemony is real make no mistake. 9/11 was merely an excuse to take military action and secure petroleum resources. We have none other than Dick Nixon to thank for this foreign policy. Furthered by the scum of the Earth Cheney the fucking dredge. despicable.

https://www.amazon.com/Petrodollar-Warfare-Iraq-Future-Dollar/dp/0865715149&ved=2ahUKEwjZvv_Au4nkAhWYq54KHSbVCpUQFjAMegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw000xKD5u-E9cheksSxasX0

The US figured out how to tap into analog undersea phone cables using induction to avoid physically cutting into the cables back in the early 1970's. As others have pointed out, this article covers some of the details. The book Blind Mans Bluff covers more details on how we did it and how it continued at least into the Reagan era. If the CIA/NSA/etc. has been tapping undersea cables for 40+ years now then they're probably pretty darned good at it.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/006097771X/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1415992265&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SY200_QL40

Cheers!

Nassim Nicholas Taleb talks about a similar pattern in finance. I've read Black Swan and most of Skin in the Game- it's good stuff!

https://www.amazon.com/Black-Swan-Improbable-Robustness-Fragility/dp/081297381X

Good next up:

http://www.amazon.com/Overthrow-Americas-Century-Regime-Change/dp/0805082409/

http://www.amazon.com/Confessions-Economic-Hit-John-Perkins/dp/0452287081/

http://www.amazon.com/Americas-Deadliest-Export-Democracy-Everything/dp/1783601671/

A great history of the US's manipulation of foreign governments
https://www.amazon.com/Overthrow-Americas-Century-Regime-Change/dp/0805082409

Thanks to the National Archive, You're welcome.

(EDIT: I'd like to remind you folks of reddiquette. this is factual sourced information not some conspiracy theory.)

Al-Husayni wasn't even in Palestine when he was in contact with the Nazis, and he wasn't part of a significant movement.

And you should also be aware of Nazi - Zionist ties.

http://www.amazon.com/51-Documents-Zionist-Collaboration-Nazis/dp/1569804338

Some summary quotes

The Zionists also had a trade plan with the Berlin government by which German Jews could redeem their property in Nazi goods exported to then British-occupied Palestine. And to top it all off, the infamous SS-Hptscharf. Adolf Eichmann, had visited Palestine, in October, 1937, as the guest of the Zionists. He also met, in Egypt, with Feivel Polkes, a Zionist operative, whom Eichmann described as a “leading Haganah functionary.” The chain-smoking Polkes was also on the Nazis’ payroll “as an informer.”

As early as June 21, 1933, the German Zionist Federation was sending a secret memorandum to the Nazis, which said, in part:

“It is our opinion that an answer to the Jewish question truly satisfying to the national state [German Reich] can be brought about only with the collaboration of the Jewish movement that aims as a social, cultural and moral renewal of Jewry- -indeed, that such a national renewal must first create the decisive social and spiritual premises for all solutions...”

Incredibly, Avraham Stern, the leader of the notorious “Stern Gang,” late in 1940, made a written proposal to Hitler, by which the Jewish militias in Palestine, would fight on “Germany’s side,” in the war against England, in exchange for the Nazis help in resolving the “Jewish Question” in Europe, and their assistance in creating an “historic Jewish state.” By this date, German troops had already marched into Prague, invaded Poland, and had built the first concentration camp at Auschwitz. The deranged Stern had further bragged about how the Zionist organizations were “closely related to the totalitarian movements of Europe in [their] ideology and structure.” Stern’s obscene proposal was found in the German embassy, in Turkey, after WWII.

There's also a book called "Nothing is true and everything is possible".

https://www.amazon.com/Sword-Shield-Mitrokhin-Archive-History/dp/0465003125

https://www.amazon.com/Legacy-Ashes-History-Tim-Weiner/dp/0307389006

A couple of books I've read recently about the intelligence side of things. Not sure about how their conventional forces compare to ours.

>Hope we learned something from that, so we don't do that again to some other country.

that is never the point (it assumes some kind of "goodwill" but it never even comes into the equation except in name only)

https://www.amazon.com/Shock-Doctrine-Rise-Disaster-Capitalism/dp/0312427999

obviously she is a leftist and you should have that in mind. Likely there are books that would describe the same disastrous events differently. for sure that applies to Chile because there is a wide-spread myth about how Pinochet economic policies were a "big success story", but even in Russia there is a bunch of assholes (e.g. Chubais) who maintain that Gaidar and his boys were a godsend to the country.

> Until the US overthrew Saddam and the Arab Spring, the region was generally stable. A hell of a lot more stable than ti is now

So in turn the US created a power vacuum... Instability in the Middle East has been the goal for over a century. Read something, like http://www.amazon.com/Peace-End-All-Ottoman-Creation/dp/0805088091


And what about the CIA's major role in overthrowing democratically elected politicians?

It seems all literature about Arabs sympathizing with Nazis revolve around Al-Husseini, a marginal man in exile who lost his status several years before he knew Hitler. The connections that one man and few others - who they had their own motives - had with the Germans is not enough to call every Arab literally a Nazi.

By your logic, a lot of other nationalities and races took more active role in the Axis. [Jews] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FzmvniIUmc) and Zionists, Christian Chruch. But don't see much hate directed to them.

The rapaciousness of the USA has been well documented.


http://www.amazon.com/Peoples-History-United-States-Present/dp/0060838655.

No, the rooms are in the buildings at either end where the cable lands. Those are the ... official? ones. But they can tap it even without your cooperation if they want to, as this book revealed around 16 years ago. They just prefer not to. Maintenance is easier, I guess.

Yes. Like how he did the first two times through the use of ghost writers like nigh on every politician in the last 100 years...

The first link is not even a separate war, that's part of the six-day war; Egypt tried to take back the Sinai which was occupied by Israel's initial aggressions. Israel started that war. The second link is the war in 1973 that I was talking about initially and that one is even debatable.

I doubt you are honest or literate enough to actually read this, but here you go:

https://www.amazon.com/State-Terror-Terrorism-Created-Modern/dp/1566560683

Have a great day.

Actually, you know what, if you want some real perspective on the matter read this book

Climate change is just another excuse, in the long list of excuses, to kick away the ladder.

Naomi Klein

Library

Amazon

https://smile.amazon.com/Trump-Art-Deal-Donald-J/dp/0399594493?sa-no-redirect=1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madman_theory

https://www.amazon.com/Trump-Art-Deal-Donald-J/dp/0399594493

If you can't think of any reason, you haven't been looking at all. Impossible and improbable are not the same thing.

Some recommended reading.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2003/feb/16/iraq.theeuro

http://www.monetary.org/was-the-iraqi-shift-to-euro-currency-to-real-reason-for-war/2010/12

http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1095057.html

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CLA410A.html

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Petrodollar-Warfare-Iraq-Future-Dollar/dp/0865715149

http://www.economist.com/node/1378764

There ya go. A whole book:


http://www.amazon.com/Petrodollar-Warfare-Iraq-Future-Dollar/dp/0865715149

I wonder if he related to the author of this book

His book: Son of Hamas

>Al Qaeda was founded by a Saudi royal

Umm...what? Bin Laden was not a member of the Saudi royal family.

Also, the Bin Laden family is huge. There are members of Osama bin Laden's family that are fashion models in Europe (See: Wafah Dufour bin Laden).

Saud Family

As per the source: http://www.amazon.com/Ghost-Wars-Afghanistan-Invasion-September/dp/1594200076

Literally, Kicking away the ladder. https://www.amazon.com/Kicking-Away-Ladder-Development-Perspective/dp/1843310279

Yo, you need to read about tariffs and why developed countries have all had tariffs in the past. https://www.amazon.com/Kicking-Away-Ladder-Development-Perspective/dp/1843310279

You're just being greatly mislead by politicians.

It's more like the girlfriend who kept cheating on you over the years with different people is now being caught doing an orgy on webcam.

History repeats itself if we don't prosecute criminals.

Companies made up of criminals, in this case. Who else do you think actually commits the crimes?

Of course, the Obama administration also directly grants immunity to single criminals:

"In court papers filed today ... the United States Department of Justice requested that George W. Bush, Richard Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Colin Powell, Condoleezza Rice and Paul Wolfowitz be granted procedural immunity in a case alleging that they planned and waged the Iraq War in violation of international law."
http://www.globalresearch.ca/obama-doj-asks-court-to-grant-immunity-to-george-w-bush-for-iraq-war/5346637

These aren't singular "looking forward in a spirit of forgiveness" cases, as politicians like to present them. These are actions which help future crimes, as everyone gets the message that with a high enough standing, no court can hurt you. This follows a pattern going back to not just the pardoned Nixon. Glenn Greenwald, who works with whistleblower Snowden, wrote an excellent book on the subject.

I'll just leave this here!

https://www.amazon.com/Trump-Art-Deal-Donald-J/dp/0399594493/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1522246592&sr=8-1&keywords=the+art+of+the+deal

Putin is using the same playbook he used in Russia.

Chaos and Confusion

Book : Nothing is true, everything is possible

RAND Paper

People have argued that in fact Roosevelt engineered Pearl Harbor to specifically entice the Japanese into attacking because he knew it would make people demand involvement in the war. It sounds like a conspiracy theory but it's pretty documented.

https://www.amazon.com/Day-Deceit-Truth-About-Harbor/dp/0743201299

Just found a couple random sources from Wikipedia, and from other redditors. Hopefully this gets you started on your own research to see what makes the most sense to you.

http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1095057.html

>Shammas says the idea of switching to the euro has appeal to Iran and Iraq because they feel if several major oil producers did it they could create a stampede from the dollar which would weaken Washington.

http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,998512,00.html
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2003/feb/16/iraq.theeuro
http://www.monetary.org/was-the-iraqi-shift-to-euro-currency-to-real-reason-for-war/2010/12
http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1095057.html
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CLA410A.html
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Petrodollar-Warfare-Iraq-Future-Dollar/dp/0865715149
http://www.economist.com/node/1378764

We weren't taken by surprise at Pearl:

http://www.amazon.com/Day-Deceit-Truth-About-Harbor/dp/0743201299

And the French were surprised by Hitler. They were well prepared for war sadly they were prepared for WWI

Really? Check out the history of Zionism and the Nazis...

http://www.amazon.com/51-Documents-Zionist-Collaboration-Nazis/dp/1569804338

http://www.amazon.com/The-Transfer-Agreement-25th-Anniversary-Edition/dp/0914153137/ref=pd_sim_14_2?ie=UTF8&dpID=51pBrljOWRL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR106%2C160_&refRID=0GN1CVGSZNESC2C73HZZ

Hell, Google the history of the Lehi. Or, check out this link and the sources provided... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_political_violence

Or downvote facts? Rebel against knowledge. "Ignorance is strength. War is peace. Freedom is slavery."

Dude, I've read...lots and lots of books on the subjects. Saying its "the fault" of the West is highly, highly simplifying a rather complex situation. lol "read wiki".

Dude, read this. Don't ever think that you got informed on something from a wiki article. The West had a role, but it's not like, oh, I dunno, the people of the Arabian Peninsula were just on the sidelines, passively observing.

The same goes for Afghanistan.

Read, The Black Swan, because people flying airplanes into buildings is a problem that rarely happens...

Mmm... ideas of civilized/uncivilized still exist today (War Hawks in DC/Dawkins quote/Fedora wearing redditors). These distinctions, ideas of the other, racial difference, are precisely what allowed colonialism to take place. That and theft of an unbelievable amount of resources from other nations. Hell, civilizing language is used still today to justify bombing places from Yemen, to Pakistan. So your point about how this racist language is of some distant past is pretty mistaken.

Western liberalism, not really what it has been made out to be for people in the third world.

Worth checking out
[1.] (http://www.amazon.com/Colonising-Egypt-Timothy-Mitchell/dp/0520075684)
[2.] (https://www.upress.umn.edu/book-division/books/questions-of-modernity)
[3.] (http://www.sup.org/books/title/?id=5403)
[4.] (http://www.amazon.com/Genealogies-Religion-Discipline-Reasons-Christianity/dp/0801846323)
[5.] (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/039474067X/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_2?pf_rd_p=1944687562&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0801846323&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1KMC8521248PRF1SVZWR)
[6.] (http://www.amazon.com/Culture-Imperialism-Edward-W-Said/dp/0679750541/ref=pd_bxgy_14_img_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=0DGP4PNK0H2QA1BP0STF)

Ghost writers never take credit, so when Mr. Schwartz claims he did most of the work, he's readily admitting he was not a ghostwriter. Besides the fact Tony Schwartz's name appears right on the cover, so he's not a ghostwriter at all.

You have obviously not read Day of Deceit by R. Stinnett because your statement was proven false back in '01. Seriously, look it up then read it.

The argument over this issue has been settled via FIOA requests of US government documents that prove, at the very least, foreknowledge.

There’s an excellent book you should read that fully answers this question. It’ll blow your mind. Sleeping With the Devil - Robert Baer.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1400052688/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_Q46dAbW02S42N

The tl;dr is massive systemic corruption and greed for oil money

Jaded by history, and he's got it bad, man. It's a downward spiral, which will leave him in alleyways purchasing books on the "shadier" parts of history.

It starts off innocently enough with the vanilla versions, then before you know it you're into The People's History of the United States, from there it gets nasty. People say that words can't hurt, but I've seen it happen before, and it ain't pretty.

You need to read this book

RT is indeed a worthless propaganda rag.

You may want to read up on how the USSR treated ethnic minorities. A lot of it is covered in Bloodlands by Yale historian Timothy Snyder.

In short - a lot of murdering and ethnic cleansing.

I am surprised no one has mentioned Adnan Khashoggi. Read Sleeping with the Devil: How Washington Sold Our Soul for Saudi Crude to learn how this guy runs Washington.

>The center's findings come after Communist Party members earlier this month called for streets to be renamed and monuments to be erected to Stalin throughout Russia ahead of celebrations in May marking 70 years since the Soviet victory over Nazi Germany, the Kommersant newspaper reported.
Asked by the Levada Center how they felt about the initiative, 39 percent of Russians said they would back plans for erecting a monument to Stalin, who was supreme commander in chief of the Soviet army during World War II.

That's fucked up. Everyone needs to read 'The Bloodlands: Europe Between Hitler and Stalin' by Timothy Snyder. I'd venture to say Stalin was worse than Hitler after reading that.

http://www.amazon.com/Bloodlands-Europe-Between-Hitler-Stalin/dp/0465031471

I would just like to point out, in 1991 the KGB archives from 1918 to 1980s were smuggled to the west. Apart from the areas that were obliterated to erase the feuding during the Stalin purges and potentially embarrassing information collected on the leadership that took over after Stalin (and tragically Stalin's obliteration of his Okrana record) it is a pretty complete record of KGB activity in other countries. The KGB was extremely interventionist beyond the wildest dreams of the CIA into other nations affairs during the early 1950s. So the CIA was paranoid, but it was paranoid because there really were extreme interventions by the USSR going on behind the scene in many places. If you ever get the chance there are several books that have summarized the contents of the archive. The breadth of KGB operations was staggering even in the UK and US.


This is the book written by the KGB defectors on the contents of the archive

I hate that you are being downvoted because there is a very real possibility that this is true. This book is basically all about how manipulative the Russian government is and how their strategy is to create an environment where no one knows what is real or fake.

It's not about oil. It's about petrodollar. Saddam Hussein had plan to use euro for its oil export. That was 2000. The US already had war plan for Iraq before 9/11. All these are just a justification. If you are interested in this topic you should start with these books.

Petrodollar Warfare: Oil, Iraq and the Future of the Dollar

A Century of War: Anglo-American Oil Politics and the New World Order

This relationship is a hell of a lot more complex and deep-rooted than most people realize. If you are interested, check out the book: Sleeping with the Devil: How Washington Sold Our Soul for Saudi Crude.

You might learn want to learn a little history http://www.amazon.com/Kicking-Away-Ladder-Development-Perspective/dp/1843310279

TL;DR stealing technology and enacting trade barriers is often the best thing to do for poor countries (like America in the 1800's)
free trade when you are poor just keeps poor people poor

And read the Shock Doctrine. Some of Klein's arguments are iffy, but on the whole it is possibly the saddest book I have ever read.

If you really want to know more read Robert Baer's book Sleeping with the Devil: How Washington Sold Our Soul for Saudi Crude.
https://www.amazon.com/Sleeping-Devil-Washington-Saudi-Crude/dp/1400052688

> propaganda which you appeard to have been misled by.

what propaganda? The only reports currently are that he is the one at fault. Considering that every story being circulated is that he is evil, makes for an interesting deduction of what the propaganda is.

Consider for a moment the history of propaganda. If you were living in nazi germany, do you think that you would be hearing two sides on any issue that Goebbels was progandizing? No, propaganda is only one sided. So ask yourself, what side are you currently hearing from with the issue of Mugabe?

I know it's hard to accept that we're not the country to milk and honey bringing these people democracy. Just look at history and you'll see an unbroken line of exploitation by rich countries of poor countries.

Anyone interested in seeing the patterns spelled out, Then I'd recommend Stephen Kinzer's book Overthrow

>What you're expecting is Pakistan to stand when we want them to and sit when we tell them to. Thats not how International relations work.

It's your fucking mess. Seriously.

The Pakistani ISI built the fucking Taliban to take proxy control of Afghanistan. The vast majority of the Taliban having been indoctrinated in Pakistani Madrasas for Afghan Refugees, the program was directed by a political ally of Bhutto. Mushareff sent 20,000 regular Frontier Corps and Army troops to help them complete the takeover after the Northern Alliance kicked the Talibans ass. Without the Pakistani military intervening, the Taliban would not have become as powerful as they did, and instead of planning to drop buildings in New York, Osama would have been more concerned with trying to stay alive and thus his support of KSM would have been limited..

In fact of the 45,000 or so "Afghani Taliban" attacking the Northern Alliance, only 14,000 were Afghani. The vast majority were Pakistani, regular military as pointed out, along with some Arabs and others supplied by Osama. The breeding ground for the 9/11 attacks were built directly with Pakistani Military support.

Iraq, totally our mess. Afghanistan, Your fucking mess.


http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB227/17.pdf
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/1340244/Afghanistan-resistance-leader-feared-dead-in-blast.html
http://www.amazon.com/Ghost-Wars-Afghanistan-Invasion-September/dp/1594200076
http://www.amazon.com/Massoud-Intimate-Portrait-Legendary-Afghan/dp/0982161506
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/episode/inside-the-taliban-3274/Overview

oh, my sweet summer child

eugenics isn't unique to nazi germany. Nazi Germany actually got their ideas from the United States.

The US, Canada, and Mexico committed genocides of the native population far larger than the Holocaust.

Hell, slavery in various forms (from penal to chattel) still exists in the US, and several big-name politicians have even leased house slaves.

There is a lot we are not taught about our countries in primary school. I only learned about these things in grad school, and most people are not lucky enough to have gone to grad school. If you want to learn about history from the perspective of the working class, the disabled, and the subaltern, etc., I recommend this book. It is a very good introduction to history from the perspective of those who have been ruled, rather than those who have done the ruling.

If you want to learn more about the dystopian history of these countries, I can direct you to further resources in DMs.

And while you're going through the histories of these nations, just remember to stick to scholarly sources. Evidence-based reasoning is key. There's enough messed up stuff out there that we don't need to jump to conclusions about things that might have happened. A lot of people will try to peddle bullshit about Jews or migrants being the cause of all our ills, but these things are a distraction from the real, systemic, often economic problems at the root of all of this.

As long as you attribute this hatred of Israel to Islam or a cultural defect of some sort you will never stop it. To get an idea you might start by reading this new book:

https://www.amazon.com/State-Terror-Terrorism-Created-Modern/dp/1566560683

"This new book shows how the use of terror by supporters of the idea of a Jewish state in Palestine was systematic, routine, and accepted by Jewish leaders as necessary to achieve their aims. At the height of the British Mandate in Palestine, terrorist acts were carried out at a frequency and with an intensity that has been largely forgotten, even though daily newspaper headlines in the US, Britain, and Palestine spoke of bombings, assassinations, and massacres against Arabs and British civilians, as well as soldiers. Suarez tells this story using the terrorists' own accounts in secret internal papers boasting of their successes, and quoting from contemporary intelligence briefings and secret diplomatic correspondence."

Israel historian Ilan Pappé had this to say about this book:

"A tour de force, based on diligent archival research that looks boldly at the impact of Zionism on Palestine and its people in the first part of the 20th century. The book is the first comprehensive and structured analysis of the violence and terror employed by the Zionist movement, and later the state of Israel, against the people of Palestine."

Where did I say ALL NPPs are bad? I showed why nuclear power is not safe in Japan. The combination of company/government bungling with an earthquake prone area is another potential disaster.


Basically, science_diction oversimplified the issue. Nuclear energy in Japan is NOT the safest energy technology. This isn't just,"Oh people are scared because of some bad press."


Everyone talks about how this was a once-in-a lifetime, unprecedented event. I recommend reading Black Swan concerning risk and probability. The thing is, no one even conceived that 3-11 could happen.


But it did happen. And that's what we worry about. We can't predict when something similar might happen again. This is not fear. It's a reassessment of risk. We thought our nuclear power plants were safe. We were wrong. We might be wrong again.


I live a 30 minute drive from the Hamaoka power plant in Shizuoka. It is ranked the most dangerous and was not shut down until AFTER 3/11. There's talk about starting it back up because "we need energy" for the hot summer. If they do I'm gone. 3 of my coworkers are leaving Shizuoka because of this, and I know over a dozen families in Tokyo that also left.


I hate to pull this card, I really do, but I gotta ask, would you, or anyone reading this, live next to a nuclear power plant in an area with 5 earthquakes a day? Would you raise your kids there?


And can I have a source please for the information that "Fukushima Daichi" was set to retire in March 2011? I mean, the earthquake occurred on 3/11, but it was still up and running.

I thought Palestine dosent exist neither do Palestinians so what changed? Israeli apologists and there mental gymnastics. It’s kind of Ironic you call Palestine a terrorist state when Israel was literally founded by terrorism.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/assessing-role-of-terrorism-by-jewish-underground-in-founding-of-israel/2015/03/13/9ac811fe-b938-11e4-9423-f3d0a1ec335c_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.6c9728f1dcfd


https://www.amazon.com/State-Terror-Terrorism-Created-Modern/dp/1566560683

Exactly. Most people still think that FDR had nothing to do with the attack on Pearl Harbor for example [1]. Since no one reads anymore (especially history), everyone still thinks FDR had no prior knowledge of the attack and are blissfully unaware that in fact he intentionally provoked the attack.
-----------------
[1] "Day Of Deceit: The Truth About FDR and Pearl Harbor" by Robert Stinnett

Orientalism is a huge concept that I can try and brush over quickly. (Check out the book if you ever have time.) Generally speaking, Orientalism is the process of essentalization, mystification, and commodification of the "East" as opposed to the "West" (in a geographic, cultural, and sociological sense). It functions on and reproduces the false binary of "us" vs. "them" and enforces value judgments that result in institutional racism and general misinformation. For example, the West is seen as enlightened, classical, and logical as opposed to the East which is mystical, romantic, and irrational. This produces and is produced by the mindset that we, as the more rational, evolved people, have a responsibility to enlighten the Oriental masses who otherwise will end up wallowing in their own sad, sad cultural practices.

Cultural imperialism is the act of enforcing one's cultural patterns/beliefs/etc. onto another community, often without meaning to or realizing what's happening and often without any outright violence or what would commonly be called "imperialism."

I find both of these concept severely degrading to the actual, real people at whom they are targeted.

I can only stress this point so many times: if this is an issue about the subjugation of and violence towards women, then let's make it about that. The niqab is not a catchall for structural violence, and banning it creates more problems than it solves. There are many other ways to deal with sexism and misogyny that will have more lasting, real impacts.

> Sounds like more conspiracy bullshit with no actual proof

Dude, so many books and articles have been written about this. The fact that this is new to you does not make it a conspiracy theory. It's not even controversial.

Western economists at the IMF in the 90's prescribed a set of policies, now colloquially known as 'shock therapy', to emerging market nations. In Russia these were prescribed ostensibly to help clamp down on an incipient hyperinflation. The radical policies consisted of a simultaneous elimination of all price/currency controls, wholesale privatization of all state-owned industry, and trade liberalization. The results were devastating, and allowed for a looting of the Russian economy by Western capital and, later, by Russian oligarchs in collusion with Boris Yeltsin.

Jeffrey Sachs, who was one of Yeltsin's advisors, has written much about his role in the crisis, and still feels the need to defend his record. Joseph Stiglitz, the Nobel laureate, has a chapter in his book Globalization and its Discontents called "Who lost Russia?" in which he lays the blame square at the feet of free-market economists prescribing economic shock-therapy. Some believe that Larry Summers lost his bid to become President of the World Bank because of his role in the Russian economic reform project(also see: How Harvard Lost Russia for more about Summers).

Other books:

Sale of the Century, by Chrystia Freeland(formerly the global editor-at-large at Reuters)

The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism by Naomi Klein

> you use inhabitants for Palestinians, while using Zionists as an aggressor, I would assume that you have a bias towards this situation.

Yes, I have a bias towards factual accuracy. Note that the Palestinians didn't arrive from Ukraine or Brooklyn, the Zionists did, and the Zionists didn't end up murdered, raped or forced into refugee camps there, the Palestinians did.

>Holocaust

which had nothing to do with Palestinians, so...
But in fact the Zionist had themselves struck a bargain with Nazis to promote emigration to Israel https://www.amazon.com/51-Documents-Zionist-Collaboration-Nazis/dp/1569804338


>those kicked out from middle eastern countries

You mean the Mizrahi jews whom Israel didn't even recognize as refugees until it became convenient to do so in order to counter the rights of palestinians https://972mag.com/spineless-bookkeeping-the-use-of-mizrahi-jews-as-pawns-against-palestinian-refugees/56472/

Palestinians who were, again, were not responsible for what happens in Morocco or Iraq... except in the fevered minds of Zionists for whom they're all just a bunch of Arabs and subject to collective punishment. And FYI lets not forget that the Zionist themselves probably bombed Jews in Baghdad to convince them to move to Israel
https://www.amazon.com/Ben-Gurions-Scandals-Haganah-Mossad-Eliminated/dp/1893302407

In fact according to CIA officer Wilbur Crane Eveland:

>>"In an attempt to portray the Iraqis as anti-American and to terrorize the Jews, the Zionists planted bombs in the U.S. Information Service library and in the synagogues. Soon leaflets began to appear urging Jews to flee to Israel... most of the world believed reports that Arab terrorism had motivated the flight of the Iraqi Jews whom the Zionists had 'rescued' really just in order to increase Israel’s Jewish population."https://www.amazon.com/Ropes-Sand-Americas-Failure-Middle/dp/0393013367/

And ...

>the Palestinians rejected it and then countered with a war which they lost

Actually the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians started before the 1948 war in places like Jaffa and Haifa, where the local population was gathered up into the village square, bombarded with mortar fire, and literally forced into the sea where British naval vessels picked up the survivors and took them eventually to refugee camps.

And the idea that innocent Palestinian villagers and women and children are somehow collectively responsible for the actions of the Jordanian or Egyptian military is yet another example of the Zionist racist tribalistic mind set of "heck they're all just Arabs"

PS the last time someone claimed that people who lost wars could be ethnically cleansed, he had a funny little moustache.

Not OP but the 6 million victims number is correct. You can check it here or here.

Also most of the Soviet killing took place in times of peace while Hitler killed in wars. So comparing WWII stats is misleading.

Also not well known is the fact that Stalin killed another 1,5 million people in Ukraine right after WWII in 1945/46 through another forced starvation.

>Yeah, so? Iran was undergoing a violent revolution to free itself from Americon tyranny. What's your point?

Since when were we talking about Iran. Were talking about Pakistan here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_U.S._embassy_burning_in_Islamabad

>[citation needed]. To think that the CIA had no operatives in Afghanistan and Pakistan during the cold war is just beyond retarded! Really retarded. You-have-gotta-be-an- Americon retarded

That's not what I said. I said that the only way Pakistan would allow the CIA to fund the rebels fighting the soviets was if they were allowed to choose whom the money and weapons went too. If you'd like a source I'd suggest you go read this book. CIA agents were not allowed into Afghanistan or even near the border during the Soviet invasion due to fear that they would be caught by the Soviets.

http://www.amazon.com/Ghost-Wars-Afghanistan-Invasion-September/dp/1594200076

Or any book on the subject for that mater, it's pretty obvious you don't really know the history.

You realize that by calling me an "Americon retard" you're being a racist by your own definition? Oh the irony.

>Hint: Bigotry against ethnic and national groups is also considered racism according to the UN, dipshit.

http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/y7web/tunisian_olympians_targeted_by_islamist_radicals/c5u62mj

>Patently false considering we know the CIA was intimately and directly involved on the ground in Afghanistan and Pakistan in the radicalization programme.

Yes and they also had Korans funneled into areas of the Soviet Union to do exactly that. That does not mean that they physically had people on the ground handing out books... Seems odd that someone like your self would be for religious oppression.

>Also what makes you think there weren't CIA double agents inside the ISI?
[citation needed]


>Thanks for conceding on that point.

I'm most certainly not conceding to your point. If you can't even use respectful language your not even worth responding too.

>I do not deny your statements. But I cannot believe you missed everything about the rockets in schools and mosques and hospitals. Medial reported it clearly

Some media reported the most ridiculous pro-Israel lies - as they do constantly.

There were no rockets fired from either hospitals or mosques. Some rockets were found in unused UN buildings (almost certainly there because people had emptied them from bunkers in order to use them as shelters).

>they also filmed Hamas militants firing rockets near homes of people.

No they didn't. One set of rockets was fired on an open patch of land not far from a hotel. Couldn't possibly justify using precision weapons to target civilians - as Israel boasts and threatens that it will do - and as we've seen them do repeatedly.

>Can you prove that my statements is lies?

I can't prove a negative - whereas you do have to prove your claims.

Shouldn't be difficult - Gaza must be the most intensively surveilled place on earth!

>I have read numerous reports of Hamas abusing their civilians and hiding weapons.

They're lies. Especially stupid lies when we know that the Zionists did much worse things themselves.

>Even UNWRA reported rockets hidden in their facilities.

What do you mean "even UNWRA"? They're pretty much agents of Israel, forced to comply with Israel's demands or lose their jobs.

>And not to mention the tunnels they dig.

They're fully entitled to dig tunnels. Its completely legal - unlike most everything Israel does, which is completely illegal.

>How come Egypt is having a blockade against Gaza and destroying their tunnels?

Because the US pays them to seal off the concentration camp (and also, of course, vast numbers of Palestinians in Gaza are mentally ill and have never had a job of work to go to, hence they must be kept out).

>Israel isn't innocent I agree, but you give the impression that the Palestinians are totally innocent of everything.

The Palestinians have homes to go back to and they're a proper menace anywhere else in the region.

While the Israelis are acting like armed squatters, in total non-compliance with the most solemn promises they made.

>The Israeli government in general wish is to have peace with the Palestinians

That's a lie - and a very stupid one. When Hamas held a 4 month ceasefire in late 2008, Israel smashed it with the biggest massacre yet.

Furthermore, they murdered some 250 of the very policemen who had delivered that ceasefire - those are not the actions of anyone who wants peace, they're the actions of people who want an excuse for an extermination.

>Hamas only wish for every Jew in Israel to be killed.

The Palestinians are the Jews of Israel. The same people were there 2000 years ago (and almost certainly the Canaanites of 3000 years ago).

Whereas many of the Israelis are up to 99% converts ... indeed, a lot of them are 100% converts.

>You are totally biased in your way of reasoning.

I'm with the fireman against the arsonist.

>Like I said, read Son of Hamas by Mosab Hassan Yousef http://www.amazon.com/Son-Hamas-Gripping-Political-Unthinkable/dp/1414333080 and you'll get a more fair view of the situation.

Its a load of artfully contructed nonsense - he's a Judenrat, a collaborator who deserves to die for what he's done to his family and his people. But its paid him handsomely - the book came out in March 2010, in June he was granted asylum in the US.

>Times are different than how it was pre -48 and Israel has indeed changed.

Stolen property (at least 93% of Palestine) remains stolen property and must be returned.

>There are idiots in israel, like in every nation, but the do not wish to kill every palestinian

They clearly do wish to kill every Palestinian - 1.5 million of them in Gaza were already wading in sewage before Israel blew up all their sewers.

>Here are some videos of Hamas firing rockets: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUrDAEgisXM http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/Watch-Gazans-fire-rockets-from-school-and-cemetery-369063

You simply prove that you're a hasbarist - blurry videos with no location information - what is the "Abu Nur School in Gaza" and how can Israel not know if its UN or not?

Those videos are actually proof that Israel has none of what it claims to have!

And their response could never be justified anyway. Israel does the kind of thing that the Nazis did at Lidice.

Check out the book Bloodlands by Timothy Snyder. It's an excruciating and depressing read, but the empirical evidence Snyder uses makes its very clear that the famines in the early years of the USSR were NOT by any means accidental or due to ineptitude. Unfortunately, I do not have my copy with me at the moment, but if you're interested in know way more than you ever wanted to know about the Soviet Famines in the 1930's, this is the book to go to. Here is a rather grizzly excerpt:

>Survival was a moral as well as a physical struggle. A woman doctor wrote to a friend in June 1933 that she had not yet become a cannibal, but was “not sure that I shall not be one by the time my letter reaches you.” The good people died first. Those who refused to steal or to prostitute themselves died. Those who gave food to others died. Those who refused to eat corpses died. Those who refused to kill their fellow man died. Parents who resisted cannibalism died before their children did.

Passenger trains joined the Irgun’s targets by 17 August (1936), when it attacked the Jaffa-Jerusalem line with grenades and gunfire at the bridge at Shlush Street in Tel Aviv, causing (as the Irgun put it) “great consternation among Jaffa Arabs”. One passenger died on the spot, and others were critically injured. Palestinian beach-goers remained a favoured target for the next decade; the terror gang murdered some in March, 1937, as well as agricultural workers in the Hefer Valley.
Irgun bombings of Palestinian cafés are first documented in April 1937 in Haifa, and bombings of Palestinian buses as early as September of that year. Rehavia was hit on 6 March, Yazur on 22 March, Jerusalem on 20 May, with further attacks on 7 July and 20 October.
On the 11th of November, the Irgun threw a bomb at a group of Palestinians on Jaffa Street in Jerusalem, “near the garage of the ‘National Bus Co.’,” and that month it attacked cafés in Jerusalem with semi-machine guns and grenades. Palestinian vehicles in the Galilee region were attacked in December, and on the 27th the Irgun opened fire on a Palestinian bus on the Tel Aviv - Jerusalem Road.[89]
After “two sacks containing bombs were found on the Iraq Petroleum Company’s workers’ train from Haifa”, the British reported on 11 April 1938, a Palestinian sergeant removed the canvas sacks from the train and placed them in the Company’s terminal site, where they exploded, killing two people and seriously wounding a third. As police rushed to the scene from Haifa, news came of a similar sack discovered on another train in the vicinity. That carriage was evacuated and uncoupled, and a bomb expert was summoned. Before he arrived, a sergeant and two constables ignored (or were unaware of) warnings not to risk entering the carriage and, hoping to protect the train, threw the sack out the window. It exploded, killing two of them. The British appear not immediately to have known the origin of the bombs, until the Irgun took credit for placing the “clock mines” on the trains carrying Palestinian workers. Four more people were killed that day by Irgun bombs near Kiriat Haim.[90]
The Irgun attacked what it called “mob rioters” (?) on 17 April, and four days later tried to blow up a Palestinian bus, but the grenade failed to explode. “Reprisals against groups of Arabs” followed on 17 May in Jerusalem and on the Hebron-Jerusalem Road. More “mob rioters” were attacked on 23 May, this time in the Tel Aviv area, and that day there were attacks against Palestinians in Haifa in response, however illogically, to the British trials of three Irgun members. The Arab market in Jaffa was hit with explosives on 26 June, and on the fourth of July five more Palestinians were killed and twenty wounded in an Irgun attack on the Arab quarters (what the Irgun referred to as “concentrations of Arabs”) in Jerusalem. The Irgun attacked Palestinian buses in the Ramle area on 5 July.[91]
What happened on 6 July (1938) was the urgent topic when the British ship HMS Repulse anchored in Haifa Bay two days later. The District Commissioner came aboard and explained the situation on shore:
A large bomb had been thrown on Wednesday afternoon [6 July] in the Arab market, and had exploded causing a large number of casualties, and these had increased to about 120 before order was restored.[92]
As reported in Falastin, the terrorists had
slipped up to the roof of a shop in the entrance to the bazaar market near the Aloon market and threw a bomb on a crowd of Arabs and it exploded with a terrible noise near the shop of the Jewish money changer who was killed with his son ... the sight of [the many victims] was harrowing, this one moaning, that one in pain.[93]
The attack, the British report said, “must almost certainly have been committed by Jews of the Revisionist party”. It was indeed the Irgun, whose records cite both this and a similar bombing “in the Old City of Jerusalem” that day. On 7 July Irgun militants from Kfar Saba took up positions on the Tel Aviv - Haifa highway “to attack Arab traffic”, but they hit Indian visitors from Tanzania instead, mistaking them for ‘Arabs’.[94]
After a bomb “tore apart a bus filled with Arab countryfolk” (as the NY Times reported it) by the Jaffa Gate on 8 July, killing four Palestinians immediately and wounding thirty-six, the British took four Jews into custody for the crime, among them the alleged bomb-thrower—a twelve-year-old schoolgirl. The blast was so strong that it shattered a nearby vegetable market. The Irgun, taking responsibility, boasted that the bombing had caused “great consternation in Arab quarters”. For the British, it was an early indication of the Zionists’ radicalisation of children.[95]
To prevent further attacks, the British assigned a platoon to safeguard each of Haifa’s five police districts and imposed a curfew—yet the Irgun pulled off an even deadlier terror attack on 15 July. Disguised as an Arab porter, the bomber placed a booby-trapped “cucumber can” in the middle of Haifa’s Arab market, killing “scores” of Palestinians and wounding many. In Jerusalem three days after that attack, another bombing by Jewish militants killed eleven Palestinians and seriously wounded three.
In Haifa, “just when the situation in the town seemed to be getting back completely to normal”, a captain in the Royal Navy reported on 25 July, Zionist terrorists threw a bomb into the (Arab) melon market, the same as the 6 July attack. The time chosen—six o’clock in the morning—ensured maximum civilian casualties. The bomb “did a terrible amount of damage, causing the death of 45 Arabs, wounding 45 others, and killing 3 horses and 9 donkeys”. Early morning food shoppers might have thought the situation was safe, since “no more public place could have been chosen”, situated by Kingsway, the Seamen’s Institute, the headquarters of the landing parties, “and within easy sight of the Central Police Station”.[96]
The next day (26th), one of the Irgun’s most venerated ‘martyrs’, Jacob Rass (Yaacov Raz or Ras), tried to deposit “a particularly loathsome time-bomb in the Old City of Jerusalem”, as British records put it. Dressed as an Arab, Rass hid the device in a barrow of vegetables and was wheeling it into the market when suspicious onlookers exposed the bomb and handed him over to the British. According to the Irgun, he committed suicide to avoid revealing secrets under torture.
‘Arab deaths’ were the goal of the militia, which inhabited an imagined Biblical ‘Israel’ that had never ended: it extolled Rass and its other fallen who had “saved the honour of Israel [this still a decade before the state that adopted the name] more than once during years and enlarged the number of Arab deaths in Jerusalem, Haifa and other parts of the country”. To encourage what it called “right-thinking Jews” in the murder of Arabs, the Irgun exploited Biblical passages, such as the Old Testament’s account of Moses.[97]

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[89] A British War Cabinet Report dated January, 1940, cites an incident of October 5, 1939, in which 43 armed and uniformed Irgun were caught, and a large cache of weapons and explosives discovered in a nearby settlement, as Britain’s first confirmation of the Irgun as a specific organization; This may have made it bureaucratically official, but British records well before this date cite the Irgun by name and as responsible for terror attacks; TNA, CAB 67/4/17; Kister, Irgun, 246.


[90] TNA, CO 733/370/11, especially Dispatch No. 383 Reference No. K/50/38; Kister, Irgun, 249; NYT, 12 Apr 1938.


[91] Kister, Irgun, 251; Pedahzur & Weinberg, Religious Fundamentalism, 100-101; By 1939, more than 60 terror attacks against Palestinian civilians are known. Hoffman, Anonymous, records the April 21 attempted bus attack and claims that the bombers intended to blow up a bus whose passengers included certain ‘Arabs’ who, the bombers claimed, were responsible for an attack against Jews. Even if the claim of guilty Palestinians on that bus were correct, and even if one forgets the majority of the victims would have been innocent passengers, Hoffman’s position is untenable, as the bombers then targeted a different bus after failing to hit the first. (k1736 etc); Bell, 42.

[92] TNA, ADM 116/3690, No. 191/9862; see also beginning (unnumbered) pages.

[93] Falastin, 7 July 1938, in Palestine Chronicle.

[94] TNA, ADM 116/3690, No. 191/9862; see also beginning (unnumbered) pages.

[95] NYT, 9 July 1938; Kister, Irgun, 251 (which cites an attack at the Jaffa Gate at 10 July, but this is presumably a misdating for July 8).

[96] TNA, ADM 116/3690, SECRET. H.M.S. “REPULSE” at Haifa, 3oth July, 1938. For Tel Aviv attack, Hoffman, Anonymous, k1896, cites a bombing in Tel Aviv on 23 July 1938 in which twenty-three Jews were injured.

[97] TNA, KV 5/34, 10AB; Bell, Terror, 42-43; Kister, Irgun, 252.

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