Reddit reviews Batman: Dark Victory (New Edition)
We found 12 Reddit comments about Batman: Dark Victory (New Edition). Here are the top ones, ranked by their Reddit score.
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Reddit reviews Batman: Dark Victory (New Edition)We found 12 Reddit comments about Batman: Dark Victory (New Edition). Here are the top ones, ranked by their Reddit score.
> It’s so confusing, why shouldn’t I just be able to follow his story from beginning to present?
> (I’m using Batman as an example but really I’d like help understanding how to follow comics in general as they’re all laid out this way, with overlapping arcs and timelines and such)
This isn't entirely how comics work. In general, it's not the only way other mediums work either. The REQUIREMENT that everything follows a strict, traditional/conventional 3-act structure (beginning, middle, end) is self-imposed and not necessary for good story-telling. The "beginning" of comics happened decades ago and the "end" is nowhere in sight; comics are perpetually stuck in the "middle".
You're already used to non-traditional narrative structure; it's used very often in other mediums. Why does Star Wars get a pass but not superhero comics? Did you see how Darth Vader "became" Darth Vader before he was introduced for the first time? Do you refuse to watch/read/play anything that will potentially have a prequel and ruin your "sense" of chronology? Did Memento or even Pulp Fiction melt your mind? When you go watch Suicide Squad: Hell to Pay, there aren't going to be in-depth introductions for every character.
It's OK to embrace your preferences. Most people like following stories from beginning to end. Now that there is 70+ years of comic history to explore, third parties have attempted ordering it all in some subjective, complicated chronology. It's not really possible, though. How do you handle flashbacks, especially when they're embedded in another story? Do you have to change the chronology to per-panel precision? What about simultaneous story releases? Alternate universes/timelines that are fully/partially "canon" and/or merged/retconned later? Varieties of characterization by multiple writers/artists?
Most of what made these superheroes "cool" in the first place was very topical. What powers do they have? What does their costume look like? Their backstories and character growth/development were fleshed out over the coming decades, more specifically in the "modern" age of comics when the demographic started transitioning to include adults.
There's no "perfect" or "definitive" sequence of events that Batman's story occurred in. That severely limits creators from writing new stories for the character without requiring hard continuity reboots. If you start solidifying that Batman grew up in X, met character Y, fought character Z, in a strict order that can't be changed, then you can't write stories that occur in between those moments. If you plan out Batman's entire chronology to fit a realistic calendar where Bane broke his back on Wednesday and the Court of Owls revealed themselves on Friday, then you (1) will find it won't make sense (because that's not how comics are made) and (2) are stripping all of the "magic" of comics away. Keep in mind: 70+ year old shared universes are an unprecedented achievement of storytelling. No other medium has accomplished something of this scale for this long. You should expect to think of something unique like that a little differently than you might be used to.
I think it's easier to get into comics when you drop the "need" to read EVERYTHING, IN ORDER. You should just read self-contained stories and treat them like separate stories. Think of it like a jigsaw picture puzzle that you're solving one piece at a time. You won't see the big picture (continuity) until you manually piece random pieces of it together over time. You even start to develop your own "methodology" (head-canon, community discussion, etc.) of putting those pieces together (reading comics) in a way that makes sense to you personally. Comics should feel more like self-discovery/exploration than procedure/work.
This is (roughly) how I got into Batman and what I suggest to new readers:
I also got into comics with Batman Rebirth, afterwards I found this list here on reddit and all of them are just great, few of them are even extraordinary and without any of them we wouldn't have the Batman we have right now.
If I had to pick some highlights, it were The Long Halloween, Dark Victory, No Man's Land, Black Mirror and Hush, especially Hush was fantastic.
Still love Batman Rebirth though.
Mr. Freeze is my favorite villain and he actually has some good moments.
By far the best Mr. Freeze stories aren't comics at all, but episodes of Batman: the Animated Series: "Heart of Ice" was written by Paul Dini and set the fundamental origin of Mr. Freeze. Check it out here, episode 14.
Paul Dini also wrote a graphic novel (I don't know if it's standalone or not) called Mr. Freeze. It's kind of hard to find off the net, and I've never read it, but how bad could Dini on Freeze be? :)
Mr. Freeze is one of the villains in Loeb/Sale's Dark Victory, the sequel to Long Halloween. He is very visually interesting in the story, but not the main villain.
There was a miniseries told within Legends of the Dark Knight, I think it went for 3-5 issues or something, called Batman: Snow. It's been collected since.
In the New 52, Snyder and Capullo did Mr. Freeze in Batman Annual #1, rebooting his origin. It was pretty good, but I have problems with his new look. That issue is collected in Volume 2 of Snyder and Capullo's Batman series, The City of Owls.
Freeze was also the main villain in one of Batman: Dark Knight villain month issues, though I didn't read it.
Hope that helps!
P.S. Speaking of Loeb/Sale, they also did a graphic novel called Haunted Knight, which focuses mainly on Scarecrow and Mad Hatter. I don't know if you've ever read any Loeb/Sale team ups, but they're consistently awesome.
As for Batman, I would recommend The Court of Owls and its sequel, The City of Owls
If you enjoyed Batman Year One, the writer behind the previously mentioned stories did his own take on the Batman origin called Zero Year that draws a lot of inspiration from Year One. It's also a two-parter. First is Secret City and it's followed by Dark City
If you want more stuff in a similar style to Year One, the same writer has probably the most famous Batman story of all time. It's called Dark Knight Returns
Finally, another essential Batman story would have to be The Long Halloween It has a sequel called Dark Victory and it has its moments but it's eerily similar to the first one and isn't nearly as good.
Personally, I would stray away from events. I'm sure some are alright but most of them just pale in comparison to what the rest of the industry has to offer.
If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.
Batman - Year One, the Long Halloween, Dark Victory, Hush , the New 52 era.
Green Lantern - Secret Origin, Green Lanterns, the Green Lantern , Earth One
Stephanie Batgirl - Batgirl: Stephanie Brown, Batman Inc, Tynion's Detective Comics
Arkham Games Based - Year One, Arkham Asylum, Hush, Under the Red Hood
I recommend Chuck Dixon's run on Nightwing, starting with the reprinted Nightwing Vol. 1: Bludhaven. The second volume will be reprinted in June.
 
Also being reprinted is the Wolfman and Perez run of New Teen Titans, starting with New Teen Titans Vol. 1.
 
For a modernized origin story, there's Loeb and Sale's Batman: Dark Victory.
 
For his early years as Robin, there's Dixon and Beatty's Batgirl/Robin Year One. Dixon and Beatty also wrote Nightwing Year One, which is currently out-of-print, but may be reprinted.
 
After Chuck Dixon's run, you'll want to skip ahead and read Peter Tomasi's Freefall and The Great Leap story arcs. Most of the stuff in-between Tomasi and Dixon is... best left forgotten. The Nightwing/Huntress mini-series was decent, but I'd advise you to avoid her run on Nightwing itself.
 
For Dick as Batman, the main essentials are Scott Snyder's Batman: The Black Mirror, and Grant Morrison's run on Batman and Robin, starting with Batman and Robin Vol. 1: Batman Reborn. I also recommend Scott Snyder's Batman: Gates of Gotham, as well as Paul Dini and Dustin Nguyen's Batman: Streets of Gotham, starting with Batman: Streets of Gotham, Vol. 1: Hush Money.
 
For New 52, the Nightwing series by Kyle Higgins is generally good, and starts with Nightwing Vol. 1: Traps and Trapezes. The ongoing Grayson series by Tim Seeley and Tom King, however, is outstanding.
These books, probably in this order, make for a really good intro to Batman comics and also fit with the general feel of the show, either setting up origins or focusing on the city as a character:
Frank Miller’s Batman: Year One - Classic. Big influence on both Gotham and Nolanverse.
Jeph Loeb’s [Long Halloween](Batman: The Long Halloween https://www.amazon.com/dp/1401232590/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_f4FqDbZZ35GEQ) and Dark Victory which are kind of a Year Two and Year Three (don’t read the books called Y2 and Y3 though)
Chuck Dixon’s Robin: Year One - What it sounds like—Robin’s first cases, not his origin. Robin faces off against Mad Hatter, Two Face, and more. The copy I linked also has Batgirl: Year One which is pretty fun.
Jeph Loeb’s Batman: Hush - A great intro to all of the villains as Batman faces off against each one, ultimately revealing a new villain rooted in his past.
Paul Dini’s Heart of Hush and Streets of Gotham (it has 3 volumes—good to know that midway through, Bruce “dies” and is replaced by Dick Grayson as Batman, but it’s still accessible without reading all of that) - HOH is a sequel to Hush and has a lot of Bat/Cat. Streets focuses on the life of the Gotham underbelly, with characters like “the Carpenter” who builds all the booby traps for the villains and the realtor who finds their hideouts. Also acts as a sequel to Heart of Hush.
Scott Snyder’s Gates of Gotham - also has Dick as Batman but delves into cool Gotham history
Scott Snyder’s Black Mirror - again, Dick is Batman. Takes place before Gates but Streets goes into Gates more fluidly. This book is creepy AF and gets into some of the Gordon family history.
Scott Snyder’s Court of Owls - Though this can be read without any of the others as it was designed as an entry point for new readers. It’s also probably the best book on the list. REALLY good.
Peter Tomasi’s Batman and Robin - The issues collected here are a great storyline that are about Bruce and his 12-year-old biological son Damian, whose mother is Talia al Ghul (daughter of Ra’s and sister of Nyssa).
If there’s a particular character or aspect of the show you like, there may be others as well but these are a good core starting set.
(You can also check your library for these—many have graphic novels on the shelves but some also have a subscription to something called Hoopla which lets you “check out” digital versions of comics/graphic novels.)
Here's some (modern?) recommendations for Dick Grayson's intro as Robin, he's my favourite comicbook character so this may be more info that you've asked for. This is a list I previously suggested to someone else.
So, one thing to understand about Batman and comics is that there are different publication eras. From the characters inception in 1939 to early 1986, the character was part of what is known as the pre-crisis era. This version of Batman is most commonly characterised like the Adam West version of the character, with other eras being characterised differently.
A DC wide event happened called Crisis on Infinite Earths, which rebooted the DC timeline, and so Frank Miller wrote Year One, which told the origin story of this new version of Batman. It is still to this day one of the best Batman stories ever told. In continuation of this timeline, a following story called Year Two was penned. This wasn't as greatly received, and so was not really collected all that well until very recently. Most modern readers probably haven't read Year Two, or even Year Three for that matter. Year Three was another later edition, telling the post-crisis introduction of Dick Grayson into Bruce's life, and their time as Batman and Robin. It again was not really collected until recently making up part of the second Caped Crusader collection.
These stories were all a continuation of one another, but from the time of them being written, something happened, which altered the way fans looked at the series', and as a result also changed how DC represented it's post-crisis timeline. Jeph Loeb wrote a similar series taking place in Batman's second year, called The Long Halloween, which was again a masterpiece, and still one of the best Batman comics written to this day. It also had a follow up, set in Batman's third year called Dark Victory, which also showed the introduction of Dick Grayson and the beginnings of the Dynamic Duo. Fans and comic writers loved these two stories by Loeb so much that DC quitely did their best to erase Year Two and Three from the canon, in favour of canonising Long Halloween and Dark Victory (see DC not collecting either Years Two or Three until recently, and DC letting Loeb later write Hush, which was canon, and also canonised the events of Long Halloween within).
So, why have Years Two and Three ben collected recently if DC wanted the audience to forget it? That again has to do with how DC structures it's in comic universe. DC didn't want to confuse audiences on the post-crisis timeline while the post-crisis timeline was still the current DC timeline, but the post-crisis timeline is no longer, so they can collect older stories now without much confusion. In 2011, an event called Flashpoint happened, which DC chose as a time to once again reboot their universe, leading to what is known now as the New 52 series, or post-Flashpoint timeline. So, this is again a new and different version of Batman, so his origin from Year One no longer exists, as that was a different Batman. Batman writer Scott Snyder got to create his own version of this new Batman's origin called Zero Year, told in two parts, Secret City and Dark City. Something important to know is that Zero Year is not set before Year One, as the two origins are from completely differnt timelines, it's just that DC uses "Batman: Year ___" as a title for name and brand recognition.
I hope this above information helps, let me know if you have any questions, though while I'm at it, I also saw you had another post with a similar topic, discussing this as a reading order:
> Zero year>Year One>Court of owls new 52 v1>Year 2>Death in the family>Year 3>A Lonely Place of Dying
I hope I can clarify. In the New 52, it is best to read in volume order (1 to 10), despite volumes 4 and 5 being Zero Year, they are told in Flashback, and you don't need to read them first. For New 52, I'd recommend reading this order (you don't have to read all, go arc by arc, and see if you find it fun):
Court of Owls, City of Owls, Death of the Family, Zero Year - Secret City, Zero Year - Dark City, Graveyard Shift, Endgame, Superheavy, Bloom, Epilogue.
For the Post-crisis timeline on the other hand:
You could read Year One -> Year Two -> Year Three, but the latter two are not the best. I would instead suggest Year One -> Long Halloween -> Dark Victory. This introduces Dick Grayson as Robin. I see you have A Death in the Family (different to volume 3 of the New 52) and A Lonely PLace of Dying listed, but they are different Robins. A Death in the Family involves the second Robin, Jason Todd, so it wouldn't make sense to read that before Year Three/Dark Victory, which introduces the first Robin. A Lonely PLace of Dying introduces Tim Drake, the third Robin, and it would be after Year Three, but like, way after. If you really wanted the right order for introducing the core Bat-cast, it would be more similar to:
Batman Year One -> Long Halloween -> Dark Victory -> Batgirl/Robin: Year One -> Batman: Second Chances -> Batman: The Killing Joke -> Batman: A Death in the Family/A Lonely Place of Dying (these are actually collected together in modern collections of these comics). Then after that in the 90's, there were these really big sagas like Knightfall and No Man's Land, they are a lot to get through, and there's already a lot here. And to remind you, this timeline does not really cross over with or interact with the New 52 timeline.
I hope this all helps! Let me know if you have any further questions.
Now, as for which character to start with, I'd advise you to start with Batman comics. His comics are very accessible, and he has tons of fantastic stories. Of course, with Batman stories, rarely do you need any pre-reading. Some stories have some required reading and/or are sequels to a previous story, though.
The de facto first trade to get is Batman: Year One by Frank Miller. The first major Batman story chronologically, but more importantly, it's a fantastic story overall.
Another great story is the KnightSaga. You mentioned you were interested in Bane. Well, this is as interesting as Bane gets. It's a trilogy of storylines, consisting of Batman: Knightfall, Vol. 1, Batman: Knightfall, Vol. 2: Knightquest, and finally Batman: Knightfall, Vol. 3: KnightsEnd. The Knightfall Saga does not require any pre-reading, by the way.
Now, another way to go, is that you can just forget about everything pre-new52 (post-Crisis) and just jump into Batman Vol. 2, which is the New 52 relaunch of the Batman title. I wouldn't recommend completely dismissing every Batman story that isn't 52, though. Because even though his new 52 stories have been consistently superb, you'd be missing out on a lot of good shit. If you do feel overwhelmed, though, and just want to jump into the relaunch so you can catch up and then read it monthly, start with Batman Vol. 1: The Court of Owls (The New 52). It's one of the best Batman stories of all time, by the way, so regardless of whether or not you wanna put off post-Crisis stories, read Court of Owls, which is the first 5 New 52 Batman trades currently out.
Other Batman/Batfamily recommendations:
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You also asked for Vixen recs. I'd really recommend getting Vixen: Return of the Lion, which is a 2008 mini-series, written by G Willow Wilson. She is a brilliant writer, I think this mini-series will peak your interest. It doesn't require pre-reading as well.
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Sorry for the late reply. Hope this helped :)
Generally, for the easiest entry, you can look at when a certain writer starts writing for a particular series, and jump in from there. If you search on Amazon (for physical trades) or Comixology (for digital issues), you can find collected volumes that put together related issues for a convenient reading experience. For example, you mentioned that you are interested in Batman. Here are some recommendations that are relatively easy on new readers:
New 52 on-going (Batman and Bat-related books):
Batman (Scott Snyder) - Start with Vol. 1 - The Court of Owls. Jump-in point of the current arc is Batman #35.
Batman and Robin (Peter J. Tomasi) - Start with Vol. 1 - Born to Kill. Jump-in point of the current arc is Robin Rises: Omega #1.
Detective Comics (Brian Buccellato) - Start with Detective Comics #30.
Grayson (Tim Seeley and Tom King) - Start with Grayson #1.
Catwoman (Genevieve Valentine) - Start with Catwoman #35.
Modern Pre-New52:
Batman: The Black Mirror (Probably the best modern Batman story IMO)
Batman: Gates of Gotham
Grant Morrison's run across multiple series is quite the doozy, but may be unfriendly to new readers. It's been collected in several different trades.
Classics:
Batman: Year One
Batman: The Long Halloween
Batman: Dark Victory
Batman: The Killing Joke
DC all the way. I like the darker tone to the books. Marvel comes off as happy and guided more towards kids (Just my opinion, I know about the darker Marvel comics) Plus, DC has way better villains IMO. I mean, c'mon, Batman's villains alone beat out Marvel's entire history of villians. My favorite comic book writer (Besides Brian Vaughan) is Jeff Loeb, who writes my favorite Batman books. My favorite artist does the BEST DAMN JUSTICE LEAGUE ART IN THE WORLD! My favorite hero, obviously is Batman. Favorite villain is Scarecrow, because, he's scary and believable (source: bad drugs at Bonnaroo are bad).
I don't know too many people here, but I know /u/browniebiznatch loves DC too! Why not add /u/Kaemii for hosting this, and /u/LizziPizzo because Batman!
The two books I linked I haven't read yet, so, pick one of those if I read.