Reddit reviews Pagan Christianity?: Exploring the Roots of Our Church Practices
We found 10 Reddit comments about Pagan Christianity?: Exploring the Roots of Our Church Practices. Here are the top ones, ranked by their Reddit score.
BarnaBooks
Suns out, guns out!
1.
and 2.
Edit: also finished my own Summer reading list if anyone cares.
"Becoming a Supple Leopard", "Pagan Christianity", "Anatomy Without a Scalpel", and "The Official Truth: The Inside Story of Pantera"
You should check out this book. It addresses a lot of those things.
https://www.amazon.com/Pagan-Christianity-Exploring-Church-Practices/dp/1414364555
Sorry to be late to the party OP, but I was actually sort of in her shoes (attended a conservative Christian school before I attended college).
At university, a peer I respected recommended reading Pagan Christianity by Viola & Barna. Essentially it is an incredibly well-researched explanation of why modern churches are arranged/presented the way they are, and how that presentation has no real biblical justification. For instance, the podium-before-audience setup of a typical sanctuary is found nowhere in the Christian bible, but it's so prevalent that the term "pulpit" has entered the secular lexicon.
Pagan Christianity is actually the first of two volumes, the first of which explains why church practices are what they are, and the second ("Reimagining Church") recommending how to change them to better align with scripture as Viola and Barna read it. I deconverted after reading the first book, which is exactly what the authors recommend you don't do, since it might make you reimagine your faith, instead of just reimagining church.
Edit: The copy I read was the 2008 printing, not the updated 2012 printing. I suspect more material from "Reimagining Church" has been added to the more recent printing to prevent Christians rethinking too much, or at least more encouragement that they buy the second book as well.
> Hey, there's more than one person who fits that description (i.e. it's not just me), glad to hear it LOL.
It's increasingly common. Especially among the more sincere (and arguably "true") believers.
NOTE: Below are not "endorsements" -- just more noting that this is a larger (and growing) "phenom" that's sort of happening "under the radar" -- arguably it's been going on all along.
Cf http://unchurching.com
And you might also find a similar book:
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Likewise, though coming at the issue -- people leaving "church" but NOT losing their faith -- from an entirely different (anecdote) side; if you can get your hands on a copy, a book from a couple decades ago (circa 1993), might be helpful to you as well.
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Chief point being, you are FAR from alone.
> 1) Biblical. The Holy Bible speaks of the powers and dignities of Mary though in a muted and mystical manner
Nope. I've read em. Just refers to her as blessed.
>>2) Patristic. The Catholic Church Fathers speak of devotion to the Mary.
None speak of her as sinless, virgin born herself, perpetually a virgin, and building idols/praying to her. Even if there was, it wouldn't negate my belief that Roman paganism was influencing Catholic doctrinal development. Here's a great book about how Roman idolatry influenced the church Pagan Christianity
>>3) Archeological.
1 scroll from Egypt? I think there's also a broken piece of pottery from the 3rd century, too.
>Source and further reading
I read the blog and it's going to take more than 1 scroll from Egypt to convince me that Mary is the cause of salvation for herself and the whole human race.
>The Bible says wide is the path to hell, narrow is the path to heaven.
If that's your criteria, then 1 billion Catholics is a pretty wide gate.
I sense that this conversation is departing from a friendly tone, probably more my fault than yours. I have to get to work and since I am the guest in this sub, I will let you have the last word. Blessings from one truth-seeker to another.
Edit: Also, on the blog about the scroll in Egypt, it isn't surprising considering this text from the wiki article on Isis as the "Queen of Heaven" ["Isis was venerated first in Egypt. As per the Greek historian Herodotus, writing in the fifth century BCE, Isis was the only goddess worshiped by all Egyptians alike,[1] and whose influence was so widespread by that point, that she had become completely syncretic with the Greek goddess Demeter.[2] It is after the conquest of Egypt by Alexander the Great, and the Hellenization of the Egyptian culture initiated by Ptolemy I Soter, that she eventually became known as 'Queen of Heaven'](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_of_heaven_(antiquity)
The best book on the subject of Catholics and Christianity in general is "Pagan Christianity" by Frank Viola and George Barna, exposing the Roman Paganism that infiltrated the Church through the years.
It's a little hard to read, so I wouldn't recommend it to people new to the faith.
https://www.amazon.com/Pagan-Christianity-Exploring-Church-Practices/dp/1414364555
(It was written by Christians, not a Fedora tippers)
There's a follow up book called Reimagining Church that is also good.
Yeah the institutional church can be a very difficult part of life. It’s more of an organization than a family.
This book has helped me understand some of the reasons the church is this way. I highly recommend reading it.
There are two different books that share a chapter title that speaks to this issue. Both are books I'd happily recommend, even if they have somewhat divergent emphases. The chapters are called 'Edifice Complex' and can be found in Rick Warren's seminal Purpose Driven Church and the second is Pagan Christianity although the latter seems to have changed the title of Chapter 2 to 'The Church Building'.
It seems we're of an identical view on this after all.
In many ways, the church has become the problem with the faith. I highly recommend a book called Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola. It covers this topic extensively. He also has a couple other books that go with it called Reimagining Church and Finding Organic Church. The general theme with these books is the effort to get involved in non-institutional churches. Ones where there is not this hierarchical structure other than the simple one the Bible set out, which is to elect elders from among the people who act more or less as guidance due to their wisdom. The very idea of a senior pastor isn't even found in scripture anywhere. When we stop and actually take stock of how far the church has strayed from God's word, we get a sense of disillusionment and don't feel quite so awkward looking for something else.
For a long time, I went to what could be described as a large home church which didn't meet in a home. It grew out of a home church and kept the decentralized non-institutional structure. Most of the focus was on family relationships and taking the Bible's teachings seriously. There were no tithes and no liturgy. It was not pre-planned week to week. Just a gathering of the saints for the purpose of expressing their faith and fellowship. Pretty much just like was done back in Acts 2.
But you're absolutely right in that the mistakes of the church are harming the public impression of the faith. When I see atheists explain what they don't like about Christianity, it's almost always reasons which are flaws in the church, not the faith itself.
Oh man, never read up on Biblical history and its evolution over the course of time then! Every generation of believers has added, changed, and/or removed interpretation of "revealed doctrine" over time that largely reflect the current time they live in.
If you do want to read up on it, I'd suggest Pagan Christianity as a starting point. It's written at a pretty high level and from a more historian/anthropological view and less of a subjective/religious view.