Reddit reviews The Elements of Style
We found 19 Reddit comments about The Elements of Style. Here are the top ones, ranked by their Reddit score.
Reddit reviews The Elements of StyleWe found 19 Reddit comments about The Elements of Style. Here are the top ones, ranked by their Reddit score.
Well, /u/colbaltLion, /u/thawed_caveman and others have hit all the main points but I'll add my two cents as well.
 
Regarding outlining/planning:
Everybody is going to approach this differently, but there are generally two schools of thought on this: Highly detailed and planned out stories, or less planned and more organic. I am of the latter type.
I suspect my story is somewhat unique as it didn't start out any anything more that little throw away blurb of some 2000 words plus or minus, and was never intended to go any farther. Somehow I'm now writing one of the most popular fics in the fandom.
SO - I had to come up with a plot when it became clear I was passing my beer and saying "Here, hold this..."
I don't outline in normal sense. HOW you do this is going to very much depend on you and what kind of person you are, and what the story is about. Are you someone who is detail oriented and likes to plan everything out first or do you like to just go with the flow and see where things lead? Is your story a fast paced action/drama with lots of characters, places and events or a fluffy pastel thing with lots of humor and canoodling? All of these things lead to a different style or story and writing. There is no set rule on this, but do what is right for you AND the story.
Personally I don't outline, not in any physical sense, at least for this current story - the next is another matter. Everything is in my head. I know where the story is going, I know the major plot points and events but how long it takes to get to each point is up in the air and things constantly shift. There are whole scenes that were absolutely amazing in my head, but simply don't have a place anymore in the story now, or have been chopped up/altered into something different.
I write in the very organic way that I mentioned. Each chapter starts out with key point, or points, that I want to hit. I set up those parameters then wind up Nick and Judy and let them go, watching what they do and who they interact with. I know to some that sounds odd but that's just how I work. I have said before that I follow them in my minds eye and record what happens. New characters pop up all the time, new ideas or scenes pop up all time as well. This is great for a given amount of 'great'. However, this method leads to what I call "Robert Jordan Syndrome" which I am most certainly guilty of. Since I don't have a tight solid outline, and just like to let things unfold as I go, this leads to a very long and long winded story. I have packed a half an hour of events into 10K+ words. I've started referring to my story as a Soap Opera because at this point that is what it is. It's 95% fluff right now. It's not some gritty crime drama, it's not some depressing story chalked full of OCs etc... it's just a continuation of the movie. It's all about Nick and Judy's relationship unfolding, along with all the sad and hilarious things that happen in between. The long winded works well as it provides lots of room for dialogue, thoughts, feelings etc.. and apparently a lot of people seem to like that. What I have done is timeskip where it fits in. That is to say I don't need to spend 15k words about every conversation Nick and Judy have with Judy's family when they do a meet and greet in BunnyBurrow - I summed it all up in a few paragraphs.
It all boils down to what the point of the story is. My story is almost completely pointless... as I often joke "I just want to see the fox and rabbit kiss." I do have a story arc going on, and there will be a bit of action around the climax that sets ground work for the next, much more serious, story, but right now it's one long "Nick and Judy's Adventures in Dating." so the glacial pacing and long windiness fit well with that. People like their WildeHopps, myself included, so I have no problem with providing plenty of it.
 
POV
I've not see anybody comment specifically about this yet but it's one of those things you'll see people screw up a lot. There are two main story POVs in use: First Person where we are seeing through a characters eyes and hearing their thoughts, as if they are dictating to you. It can be one of the more difficult POvs to pull off. The second one is Third Person, which is the more common. There IS Second Person as well, but nobody uses that ouside of poetry and such.
For example:
1st:
I turned, seeing Judy coming out of the elevator doors. "Hey! Judy!" I called.
3rd
Nick turned, and seeing Judy stepping from the elevator called out to her.
"Hey, Judy!"
Now there are actually several different TYPES of POV within each main POV too, it can be bloody confusing. There's First Person Peripheral, Third Person Limited, Third Person Omniscient etc., the list goes on. Point is pick one and stick with it. It usually boils down to personal preference as to which you use. Here is a good write up on them.
 
POV shifting
This is another common gotchya. When your POV shifts you start a new paragraph - this is linked to the type of POV you are using as well. In First Person the POV never really shifts from the character who's eyes you're seeing out of. Third Person is different as POV shifts based on who is talking or doing some action.
Bad POV shift example:
Nick turned, and seeing Judy stepping from the elevator called out to her. "Hey, Judy!" he called. Judy turned her head and and raised a paw to him. "Hey!"
So... Was it Judy saying "Hey!" back or was it Nick saying "Hey!" again? This is a simplistic example, but incorrect POV shifting can cause confusion as to who is talking or doing what. There is a certain amount of nebulousness regarding when to start a new line when Dialogue is involved as well. You usually want to start a new paragraph each time the speaker switches or is speaking for the first time etc..
As a side note you also will want to start a new line even when the POV shift from the character but the subject of what is going on shifts. I.E. The paragraph starts out about Nick thinking about X but then there is a shift to thinking about or doing Y - you would want to put Y in it's own paragraph.
Anyway, as long as you stay within the general POV guidelines where to start a new paragraph is often left up to the writer. You don't necessarily need to start a new paragraph when the character is speaking for the first time, but should if the preceding text is long. You don't want a big paragraph from the POV of a character then tack on some dialog at the end, it's generally better to let the dialogue start it's own line in that instance.
For example the following could be written a couple could of different ways:
Nick turned, and seeing Judy stepping from the elevator called out to her.
"Hey, Judy!"
Judy turned her head and and raised a paw.
"Hey!" she called back
Or
Nick turned, and seeing Judy stepping from the elevator called out to her. "Hey, Judy!"
Judy turned her head and and raised a paw. "Hey!" she called back.*
How ever you do it; be consistent. Again there are plenty of resources out on the net about all of this.
 
Editing
This is been pointed out already by Colbalt and Caveman's detailed posts but it really does need to be stressed. I'm sure we've all seem some really bad stories that seem like they have been put together by people who have never picked up a book, let alone the metaphorical pen, in their life - if you're one of those people do your homework before whipping something up and throwing it out there. Edit and edit some more. If you don't you'll be ignored at best, at worst you'll become a punching bag and laughed at. When I started I had not written anything in nearly 20 years and was extremely rusty. When I was a few chapters in and starting to get some interest from editors I pulled everything back and revamped it after going through tons of pages and videos about things I was screwing up. It was a case of known unknowns. I knew I had something special from the response I got, but I quickly realized I was not to hot in the actual mechanics of writing anymore (Punctuation, POV etc.) It's 2017 folks, we have Google, we have Youtube. There are countless videos, blogs, forums dedicated to writing. /u/thawed_caveman pointed out an excellent series on screenwriting, also highly reccomend Brandon Sandersons lectures.
 
Two last things
Firstly - I push this a lot when ever I get someone asking me for help or advice about writing in general: Stephen Kings 'On Writing. A Memoir of the Craft.' I highly recommend getting the [audiobook](http://www.audible.com/pd/Bios-Memoirs/On-Writing- Audiobook/B002V1A0WE/ref=a_search_c4_1_1_srTtl?qid=1487958580&sr=1-1) - it is half life story, often very funny, and half advice on writing narrated by King himself.
Secondly - It would be a very good idea to read: The Elements of Style - I really need to re-read this myself as it's been a long while, but every writer should have a copy.
A lot of authors recommend The Elements of Style. Thank you for being the type of person who actually wants to learn and better your writing for it versus using an automation script that enables ignorance.
Sorry to say it but based on what you've written here, you're not a good enough writer at the moment. I'd start with learning spelling, punctuation and grammar (you can probably do that online, or read Eats, Shoots and Leaves by Lynn Truss) then move on to a more general writing course. Also read great literature and pay attention to what makes it great. An instructional book like Elements of Style is also a great place to start. Many writers absolutely rave about that book and you'll learn things you never realised you didn't know.
Taxes- Once you start filing them, file them every year, even if you’re not obligated to. It makes your life sooo much easier. Please just trust me on this. Also, very few people really know how taxes work. The tax code is confusing on purpose. Like probably CPAs and Tax Attorneys and some people who work at the IRS, but that’s about it.
r/tax is a thing that is occasionally helpful. r/Insurance also may be of some use to you. And hopefully you won’t need it, but r/LegalAdvice.
The top comment was right. Focus on your education. I learned most of the stuff you’re talking about at college. Make friends with lots of different kinds of people. All ages. Older/non-traditional students are great because they’re really serious and they have a lot of life experiences. Age cohort students are great because they’re fun, you have similar ideas and philosophies, and someone will def take notes for you when you’re sick (especially if you buy them a coffee for being so diligent later).
You’ll gain work experience as you go and get older. If you can, get a job at the school you go to. They’re usually much better than off campus. They work around your class schedule and will pay at least minimum wage, if not more. The number of hours aren’t always the best, but are almost always steady.
This is just a tip for school - get Strunk and White’s “The Elements of Style” - I prefer the illustrated edition which is what I’ve linked. I always thought I was a good writer and then I got to college and realized I was wholly mediocre. This helped immensely. I tell everyone just starting school to get this. If I’d had this my freshman year, it would have been a totally different game.
TL;DR: No one knows how taxes work. Specialized subs can be your friend! Focus on education. You’ll gain knowledge, experience, lots of things, as it comes. Strunk and White to make essays easier.
Edit: I don’t know the name of things apparently. r/tax not r/Taxes
https://www.amazon.com/Elements-Style-William-Strunk-Jr/dp/194564401X
Read and memorize
https://www.amazon.com/Elements-Style-William-Strunk-Jr/dp/194564401X
Oh my, big passive voice fan? Let’s see, where to start?
> There are also times when passive voice is preferred
I did say that, but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s usually not preferred. It’s preferred when there is no known actor or when the main subject is not the actor.
> Non-psychologists tend to ignore the American Psychological Association’s style guide, yes.
APA is used for a lot more fields than just psychology, including scientific ones. Besides, most style guides say the same thing. AP does, and I’m pretty sure Chicago does.
>And are you seriously citing style guides to make a point about natural language? Yes, prescriptivists tend to dislike passive voice in English. How is that at all relevant?
AP and APA actually cite natural usage as a reason for proscribing against passive voice. The active voice is more natural in most cases and is the way we tend to talk. Therefore, using active voice is better for clarity. Clear writing is good writing.
But this isn’t a subreddit on writing. This is a sub about learning Japanese. The meme we’re commenting on is about things that are difficult for Japanese learners whose native language is English. Passive voice in Japanese is difficult for many English-speaking learners for all the reasons I mentioned. If you want to keep using it in your English writing anyway, I mean, whatever floats your boat. I do recommend picking up On Writing Well, though, and maybe also The Elements of Style. They’re excellent books that I think can explain better than I can why some of these kinds of things that seem “prescriptivist” are actually ways to make your writing clearer, more succinct, and, ultimately, more successful.
https://www.amazon.com/Elements-Style-William-Strunk-Jr/dp/194564401X
Memorize it!
First, No one talks in a reddit thread. We type/post. Second, it's clear to me that your lack of education makes it impossible for you to see that I was contrasting the crudeness and laughable lack of grammar in your post by using hyper-refined and anachronistic language in my response.
By the way, aside from "dare not rebut", the language I used is perfectly appropriate in any educated circle. If you ever find yourself in a professional setting that doesn't require you to wear a hairnet and tee-shirt with a fast food logo on it, you will learn that written communication is one of the most important skills you can develop. I hope for your sake that you can someday replace your keyboard-courage fueled profanity with something resembling a reasoned and cordially presented argument.
As a starting point, you might profit from a thorough read-through of [The Elements of Style] (https://www.amazon.com/Elements-Style-William-Strunk-Jr/dp/194564401X).
A great place to start is Elements of Style.
As u/kellax said, take a class — the many writing assignments and merciless critique are what bring improvement! If in-person classes aren't an option, you can probably find something online (maybe even a sub-reddit).
Sure!!!
Great reference to have: https://www.amazon.com/Elements-Style-William-Strunk-Jr/dp/194564401X
Your Writing;
Some good writing in your details and solid word images. You have a good sense of humor, I would have enjoyed more of your dry timing. The story and characters, that was very difficult for me to follow. The paragraphs seemed to dance, move to one thing or another, almost like it didn't need to connect. They did connect but It felt to me I had to work hard to get it.
I stopped when Owen got to Lake Tahoe.
I found it hard to understand when it's the Mc thinking, or a dream, or something else. It didn't feel very real to me. I didn't get a any sense of a 'when', no sense of time passing, nor a viewpoint that let me understand what I was reading.
I thought Owen was a type of kid I wouldn't much like to hang out with. The red haired girl, not sure. Good world building, a firm start.
Other ways to get better feedback;
If you want to avoid bad habits before starting, be clear about how much help you can get here. Ask specific questions about areas you think don't work. Post a small intro, maybe just a scene or two from a chapter. Start a bit smaller. Build up from there.
The best help I see comes from very specific questions about your work.
More detailed critiques can be found at the link shown below. There they will read all of it and give very detailed responses, however there is a catch. You have to do a 1:1 ratio of other works in order to receive the same. So you'd have to complete a high level critique of a 2,500 plus story, then you would get the same.
If you don’t follow this rule, your post will be marked as a leech post. And if your leech post has been up for 24 hours without any new critiques from you, it will be removed.
[Destructive Readers](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestructiveReaders/ "The goal: to improve writing and maintain the highest standard of critique excellence anywhere on Reddit. DestructiveReaders isn't about writers being nice to writers; it's about readers being honest with writers. We deconstruct writing to construct better writers." )
Sharing the writing process;
A lot of us here are working and struggling with becoming better writers. So you are not alone in this painful process.
I myself find the task of becoming a good writer very daunting. I only keep going because I create a belief in myself. After that I go through the slow hard swim in the deep dark oceans of the unknown. I have no directions, no compass, only fear which if allowed becomes an anchor.
It would be good to know something about your skill level, things you've already read to improve crafting stories, classes you've taken, daily exercises or how much you write each day.
Myself; I do a daily poem, then write from 5/6 am to 9 am, that will be either my current novel or on a short I plan to submit to a magazine. I listen to Podcasts and do exercises from Writing Excuses
Books I use as my reference on writing;
end
Sorry Pede. I was trying to help you access the book downloads. My life has been enlarged gloriously by libraries like this one online. I'm sorry it didn't work for you. I'm part of the Braille Library of Congress BARD project. I've never seen a FEDERAL program that actually works like BARD does!
HELLO, I wish I could gift these jewels/pearls to every Pede! I love you guys; here are the book titles and authors I've posted. See if you can check them out at your local library, that's where I got my mind BLOWN.
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/education-of-a-coach-david-halberstam/1100554726?ean=9781401308797
https://www.amazon.com/Elements-Style-William-Strunk-Jr/dp/194564401X
First thought leadership shameless blog promo on this sub I don't hate. I agree with the sentiment wholeheartedly. Skipping this step is why most start-ups fail, they've never made a buck before. Cashflow isn't an abstract concept you need to understand, it's an experience you need to fully immerse yourself in.
Legit tho. And I don't mean to be insulting. If you want to be the blogger dude to generate traffic for yourself, you MUST begin to work on your writing. It is unprofessional; it is not concise. It has sentiment going for it, that's all. It's written like a post going to an echo chamber, it doesn't convince anyone. For your sake, read this short book 25 times. Make it your bible. Understand the effect of your syntax and diction: https://www.amazon.com/Elements-Style-William-Strunk-Jr/dp/194564401X
i recommend this
Plenty of writers started late. You're fine. Do NOT let bullshit like this slow you down. Here are a few suggestions:
Here are a few youtube channels about writing, and links to some books on writing.
Lessons from the Screenplay This one is focused on scripts, but the concepts translate well when it comes to the overall story.
Terrible Writing Advice These are all examples of what NOT to do.
Just Write Similar to LFTS, but of lesser quality.
Stephen King talking about writing
The Elements of Style The OG writing book.
Style: the art of writing well
Stephen King: On Writing Part memoir and part writing guide. Well worth reading.
These are good, but always be on the lookout for more resources.
My last bit of advice, and probably the most important, is be authentic. It's your story. Write what you want to read, not just what other people want. Say what you want to say, even if it's uncomfortable, even if it's not profitable. Don't be a pussy, and you'll be ok.
Here
>I'm so misunderstood.
Probably because you don't make any sense. Start here.
If he proceed to list 4 choices and uses a colon and then there are 3 choices that immediately follows it and then later in the paragraph he states the 4th I'm the horrible reader??
How about something like this:
Where I live you have 4 choices based mostly in your age and the service:
He's the author. It's his job to effectively communicate himself. As a reader I can only try to make sense of his word salad, improper punctuation, and poor paragraph structure.
Do yourself and everyone else a favor and buy and read this book.
https://www.amazon.com/Elements-Style-William-Strunk-Jr/dp/194564401X