Reddit reviews "They Take Our Jobs!": And 20 Other Myths about Immigration

Here is a paper and here is a book. Didn't read it but have studied Chomsky.

I gotta go now, once you have read the first (and possibly the second), come back for more.

One more thing: Numbers would look even brighter if there was a clear path for these people to actually gain citizenship and contribute to the country legally. Part of why some of these people don't pay taxes is that they are afraid of repercussions when dealing with governmental institutions. And with Trump, this fear is gonna increase and tax outcome is gonna decrease.

Start understanding why it is that people are driven to come here illegally. The immigration/refuge process takes years, even decades. And the people who come here illegally rarely take the opportunities that migrants do. A good starter is here (https://www.amazon.com/They-Take-Our-Jobs-Immigration/dp/0807041564).

ROTFL! How did I know you'd link to something like The Heritage Foundation!?? And you accuse ME of not having any arguments supported by facts? You're linking to a conservative think tank! LOL. Your link has been thoroughly debunked:

https://www.factcheck.org/2013/06/the-immigration-bills-6-3-trillion-price-tag-2/

So, very sorry, you are wrong on crime:

https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/is-illegal-immigration-linked-to-more-or-less-crime/

You are wrong on taxes:

https://www.amazon.com/They-Take-Our-Jobs-Immigration/dp/0807041564#reader_0807041564

And your statement about "destroying our culture" is the epitome of right-wing racist rhetoric.

Aviva Chomsky, a professor at Salem State College, states that "Early studies in California and in the Southwest and in the Southeast...have come to the same conclusions. Immigrants, legal and illegal, are more likely to pay taxes than they are to use public services. Illegal immigrants are not eligible for most public services and live in fear of revealing themselves to government authorities. Households headed by illegal immigrants use less than half the amount of federal services that households headed by documented immigrants or citizens make use of."[42]

If youre more curious about these ideas you have been radicalized to believe, maybe read this!

"They Take Our Jobs!": And 20 Other Myths about Immigration https://www.amazon.com/dp/0807041564/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_vTitDbNEEJ5V3

Actually, the jury is out in regards to economic cost vs benefits and the rate of education:

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/41645?index=8711

http://www.amazon.com/They-Take-Our-Jobs-Immigration/dp/0807041564#reader_0807041564

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=881584

http://cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

https://www.wmich.edu/hhs/newsletters_journals/jssw_institutional/individual_subscribers/39.4.Becerra.pdf

http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/stories/2006-04-06/econ-101-on-illegal-immigrantsbusinessweek-business-news-stock-market-and-financial-advice


Not to mention that you completely failed to address my points. Again, even if the figure is correct and the total cost is 113 billion, why is there a reason to give a shit about illegal immigration for the reasons you listed when there are gigantic problems with those domains that aren't caused by illegal immigration and are far more harmful to the average American? You realize that even $113 billion overall and $52 billion for education is a drop in the bucket, right? Or that a deportation program like Trump is proposing would cost even more money than the net loss incurred by illegal immigration if a net loss even exists? Why is this the reason you'll elect a president for when there are other gigantic issues facing America and Trump's deportation "plan" would cost untold amounts of money, bloat government offices, and cause some economic sectors to become unstable and negatively impact Americans? I don't even like illegal immigration, but it's just embarrassing to watch people get swept up in this rhetoric when our national security is threatened, our education system is shit, our middle class is shrinking, we're diplomatically in a fragile position, our prison system is an absolute mess, citizens have massive piles of personal debt, and our violent crime rate is abysmal compared to other industrialized nations. Oh but no, it's the people crossing the border and picking berries for dollars a day on the farms that are causing all the problems somehow, rather than systematic issues with American institutions and volatile foreign relations. It's simple for voters to understand and exploits their fear, so why not use it as a main campaigning point, I guess.

> Do you think it's a good thing to have a bunch of unemployed foreigners? Why?

They're in the country already, and if they are deported, we should deport them as families. Keeping them here is much prefferable to the way we deport them now.

> If you can't operate a profitable business without illegal labor, then you can't operate a profitable business. Plenty of other people manage to make it without cheating, if you can't then maybe being a business owner just isn't for you.

I would be perfectly fine with that, but it would also cost us jobs.

> Wage growth has been stagnant while productivity has gone up . The rise in inequality isn't because capitalists have suddenly become evil or greedy, they were always like that, and our laws haven't changed that much to allow for such a divergence. The only rational explanation is the flood of unskilled workers have pushed the wages down and stifled growth.

There are many reasons for that disparity, and for the most part, it isn't because of illeagal immigrants. It includes China taking our manufacturing jobs, automation, the vastly decreased power of unions(this is a HUGE factor), and the much higher pay given to top level employees.

> Just like every other president's policies, I doubt how Trump's tax plan is passed will be anything like how it looks now.

If he's defending a tax plan that most people know won't work, I still don't want to vote for him over someone whose tax plan is much better(but still relatively bad), like Hillary or Bernie.

> We would also lose the costs associated with them.

The cost may actually be lower than the benefit. Highly reccomend you read this book, it was very informative to me: http://smile.amazon.com/They-Take-Our-Jobs-Immigration/dp/0807041564

>Professor of Law Francine Lipman writes that the belief that illegal migrants are exploiting the US economy and that they cost more in services than they contribute to the economy is "undeniably false". Lipman asserts that "illegal immigrants actually contribute more to public coffers in taxes than they cost in social services" and "contribute to the U.S. economy through their investments and consumption of goods and services; filling of millions of essential worker positions resulting in subsidiary job creation, increased productivity and lower costs of goods and services; and unrequited contributions to Social Security, Medicare and unemployment insurance programs."

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=881584

>Aviva Chomsky, a professor at Salem State College, states that "Early studies in California and in the Southwest and in the Southeast...have come to the same conclusions. Immigrants, legal and illegal, are more likely to pay taxes than they are to use public services. illegal immigrants aren't eligible for most public services and live in fear of revealing themselves to government authorities. Households headed by illegal immigrants use less than half the amount of federal services that households headed by documented immigrants or citizens make use of."

http://www.amazon.com/They-Take-Our-Jobs-Immigration/dp/0807041564#reader_0807041564

At worst I've heard they break even on taxes vs welfare, but then provide a net positive with respect to increased economic production which means more demand which means a healthier economy.

A lot of opinions added in that link while the studies don't show accuracy for what we are looking for, let alone, it's damn near impossible to be accurate when they are undocumented to begin with.

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Opinionated pieces creating flaws in the arguments

1. "Immigrants, legal and illegal, are more likely to pay taxes than they are to use public services. " Yea sure based on what? Was based on a book full of opinions without studies. Source - Amazon Book written by a Latin Historian.
   
   
2. "However, it is unclear how much benefit the average unauthorized immigrant household is eligible for" Unable to provide proper numbers on tax numbers let alone it doesn't accurately record how much taxes illegals pay well because *they aren't documented*.
   
   
3. Taxes paid by illegals - Like you can't be serious on this one. Beyond flawed when you just make guesses.
   
   Methodology
   
   While the spending and income behavior of undocumented immigrant families is not as well documented as that of US citizens, the estimates in this report represent a *best approximation of the taxes families headed by undocumented immigrants likely pay*.
   
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   I could go on for days but I think it would be pretty delusional to think you could accurately study on the benefits of illegals towards the economy when it comes to most portions mainly due to the fact you can't accurately record "undocumented" illegal immigrants.
   
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   What I will say is that it is a fact they impact our support systems and heavily impact our local states and cities to the areas of illegal immigration. Which with this information it is pretty clear they impact and slow down our progress to move forward.