Reddit reviews Why Christianity Must Change or Die: A Bishop Speaks to Believers In Exile

That's an (ex) motherfucking bishop, not just any priest.

He also wrote this:

1. Theism, as a way of defining God, is dead. So most theological God-talk is today meaningless. A new way to speak of God must be found.
   
   
2. Since God can no longer be conceived in theistic terms, it becomes nonsensical to seek to understand Jesus as the incarnation of the theistic deity. So the Christology of the ages is bankrupt.
   
   
3. The Biblical story of the perfect and finished creation from which human beings fell into sin is pre-Darwinian mythology and post-Darwinian nonsense.
   
   
4. The virgin birth, understood as literal biology, makes Christ's divinity, as traditionally understood, impossible.
   
   
5. The miracle stories of the New Testament can no longer be interpreted in a post-Newtonian world as supernatural events performed by an incarnate deity.
   
   
6. The view of the cross as the sacrifice for the sins of the world is a barbarian idea based on primitive concepts of God and must be dismissed.
   
   
7. Resurrection is an action of God. Jesus was raised into the meaning of God. It therefore cannot be a physical resuscitation occurring inside human history.
   
   
8. The story of the Ascension assumed a three-tiered universe and is therefore not capable of being translated into the concepts of a post-Copernican space age.
   
   
9. There is no external, objective, revealed standard written in scripture or on tablets of stone that will govern our ethical behavior for all time.
   
   
10. Prayer cannot be a request made to a theistic deity to act in human history in a particular way.
    
    
11. The hope for life after death must be separated forever from the behavior control mentality of reward and punishment. The Church must abandon, therefore, its reliance on guilt as a motivator of behavior.
    
    
12. All human beings bear God's image and must be respected for what each person is. Therefore, no external description of one's being, whether based on race, ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation, can properly be used as the basis for either rejection or discrimination.
    
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_New_Christianity_for_a_New_World#Twelve_points_for_Reform
    
    His "Why Christianity Must Change or Die" is a stronger polemic than anything Dawkins has ever written(and was written before any of the "new atheists" books).
    
    Of course, I think it should die, and he thinks it should change, but we're in fair agreement on why. ;-)
    
    

I've read this guys book. http://www.amazon.com/Why-Christianity-Must-Change-Die/dp/0060675365

its a good read. But it not hard to figure what choice xtianity is going to make.

Some Christians are already trying to evict the Bible from the religion. There's an excellent De-Conversion series on YouTube by Evid3nc3 which introduced John Spong's book Why Christianity Must Change Or Die.

Before watching this, I also thought that the Bible was inextricably tied to Christianity. And my rejection of the religion equates to my rejection of the book. But then I got to thinking... the bible is a Roman-Catholic invention. It was never needed!

In a sense he did.

I'm sort of left wondering, after reading his twelve points on Christianity, what's left after he pares away all the chaff.

I think it refers to this book http://www.amazon.com/Why-Christianity-Must-Change-Die/dp/0060675365

Yeah, I understand your concerns, in fact I share them! Dogmatic religious ideology is inherently anti-human. It's a serious problem.

However, I do not like "black and white" thinking. And I don't like categorizing people as "us and them". That, IMO, is part of the problem not the solution.

It's very important to empathize with others, even more so with those who are different than you! If you want to have a dialogue you need to try to understand them, and to relate to them.

So while you're absolutely correct that what I am describing is not synonymous with fervent religious faith, I'm comfortable that it is close enough to build mutual understanding and empathy.

Further, a lot of atheists seem to equate religious faith with fundamentalism. That is a mistake! Moderate/liberal religious people have more in common with us than they do the fundamentalist. Bishop Shelby Spong is a good, albeit extreme, example of this:

http://www.amazon.com/Why-Christianity-Must-Change-Die/dp/0060675365

They know their religion isn't "factually true"; they think of it as a useful mythology and a social club.

I would rather work together with those people against than create "us and them" categories that pretend their faith is equivalent to that of fundamentalists.

I know I fly in the face of the anti-theist agenda, but my momma taught me that you catch more flies with honey.

You might also try reading some of the non-Bible books that are important to Christianity. These are some of the books we read in my university class on Christianity:

• The Interior Castle
  
• Waiting for God
  
• For the Life of the World
  
• Meister Eckhart
  
• The Life of St. Antony (Note this is actually kind of an action packed demon ass kicking adventure novel - its also one of the earliest accounts of the life of a Christian saint having been written around 300 C.E.)
  
• Why Christianity Must Change or Die
  
• The Blackwell Companion to Christian Sprituality (Note this one is very academic, probably more than most people would want)
  
  Another book I have that is interesting is the graphic novel version of the Book of Revelation its actually really well done in my opinion.

https://www.amazon.com/Why-Christianity-Must-Change-Die/dp/0060675365

Many Christians have the same doubts as you but are forced to hide their inner beliefs and doubts out of fear of condemnation from fellow believers. I have experienced the prejudice of believers first hand. It's like the old military mantra of "Don't ask, don't tell" except it applies to Christians this time and not homosexuals.

I went through a similar phase as you. Is there a God? How do I know Christianity is right...why not Islam or Buddhism? All claim to be the truth. With heaven and hell at stake, why is God going to penalize a mere human for chosing or being born into the wrong religion?

If I were raised Muslim I'd believe that Jesus was just a prophet and that the Trinity is idolatry whereas a Christian has no problem with the Trinity or believing that Jesus was way more than just a prophet. None of us were there when these two religions were born but we will be eternally accountable for the wrong choice?

What I realized was that scripture is abused when only taken literal and that literalism kills the truth being conveyed. That is why I had the above questions and thoughts. The mind games I had to jump through were just too much. Adam and Eve had to be real right? But what if they were archetypes that reflected truth? A talking snake or was the snake just a symbol not meant to be taken literally?

Look into other views of Christianity and see where you fit in.

I would suggest reading Why Christianity Must Change or Die by John Shelby Spong. He was was the Episcopalian Arch Bishop of Newark, and his idea of God is not that of a deity, but he still considers himself Christian.

When Jesus speaks of treating your neighbors with respect, he means your peers. People like you.


Jesus's word is intended to separate families and turn them against each other. You should not accept people who believe in other Gods or no Gods. If you do, you will lose your chance to enter heaven.

10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.


Jesus doesn't care about foreigners/non-believers.

10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


This is made even more clear when he refused to heal a woman of Canann until she agreed with his assertion that she was a dog and belittled herself before him.

15:21 Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon.

15:22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

15:23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

15:26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.

15:27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.

15:28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

All quotes are from Matthew, one of the four pillars of Christianity.

Despite the fact that your version of Christianity is far more accepting, and in my opinion superior, you are the one who is "Christian". It's difficult, if not impossible to be a good Christian without deviating from how the Bible indicates we should behave. It's how we end up with books like this.

Edit: Formatting.