(Part 2) Best ancient & classical poetry books according to redditors

It depends on when, where, and who you were.

• At any time and any place, extramarital sex among the upper classes, at least for women, was strictly forbidden, for the obvious reason of protecting the family bloodline. For this reason, women were closely watched. (Many of the stories in Boccaccio’s Decameron are premised on this watchfulness and frustrated lovers.) One could argue that the cult of “courtly love” (fin d’amor as it was called), which basically taught young noblemen to “look but not touch,” encouraged the secret and chaste adoration of a noble woman. Andreas Capellanus, who wrote out the [rules of the game] (http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~chaucer/special/authors/andreas/de_amore.html) in the 12th century, advises noblemen that secret, chaste love was the best; their sexual urges could be satisfied with peasant women, who are there, literally, for the raping.
  
  
• Depending on where you were, large towns tolerated prostitution and even legally regulated it by the 13th century. The great moral theologian Thomas Aquinas taught that prostitution should be tolerated as a lesser evil. It was like a sewer in a palace: it was nasty but without it, the whole palace would stink. The greater evils it prevented were offenses to public decency by keeping prostitutes in one house, the corruption of decent women by being in their presence, and sex between men, who might be reduced to sodomy if they couldn’t release their sexual urges since they often married late. Towns like Venice had prostitutes in the hundreds. They even organized themselves into ad hoc guilds in some places. However, all but the most educated and elegant courtesans were socially marginalized.
  
  
• Even outside of large cities, ordinary village women, living at subsistence levels, might turn to periodic prostitution; they were not really “professional ladies” but women trying to keep their head above water. Single women who had sex with men would be stigmatized if it was habitual and flagrant—for instance, you would not set up house with a man. But an occasional role in the hay, even if it resulted in pregnancy, might be tolerated, especially since it was a sign of fertility, a much valued characteristic. The evolving theology of marriage (12th century onward) also affected sexuality, where the consent theory (marriage was formed by the mutual consent of a couple, with or without witnesses) began replacing the “concubitus” theory (where sexual consummation created the marriage). Church courts regularly dealt with cases where a man consented secretly to a marriage, consummated it in private, and then denied publicly that he had consented.
  
  
• Clerical marriage was supposedly outlawed in the late 11th century, but it flourished all over Europe. I just read an article in the latest issue of the medieval journal Speculum (“Priestly Wives: The Role and Acceptance of Clerical Concubines in the Parishes of Late Medieval Catalunya” by Michelle Armstrong-Partida) which cites astounding percentages of priests with concubines. Thus in Girona from 1314-1346, “495 (75 percent) [of priests] kept concubines and 166 (25 percent) were engaged in casual sex.” These numbers would be lower in places like northern France where the law against clerical shacking up was better enforced, and somewhat similar (though not as high) in places like the diocese of Norwich in Enlgand where custom tolerated priests with “hearth mates.”
  
  
• Like today, the idea of sex was constantly around. I’m reading a new collection of 13th-century French stories called fabliaux (in a [wonderful translation by Nathaniel Dubin] (http://www.amazon.com/The-Fabliaux-Nathaniel-E-Dubin/dp/0871403579/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1373037076&sr=8-1&keywords=dubin+fabliaux)), which is pretty much filled with folks obsessing about sex and how to get it, which they do with regular and hilarious success. (Did I mention these stories are dirty and very, very funny?) One can see in stories for noble audiences (like Tristan and Yseut or Lancelot and Guinevere from the Arthurian cycle) that stories of adultery had a sort of titillating appeal for couples stuck in arranged marriages.
  
  To sum up, chastity was the ideal (and was supposedly a virtue that set the clergy apart from the laity), but it was breached in all sorts of ways, especially at the mid- to lower levels of society, where the stakes were smaller. To put it another way, the average medieval person probably got more sex than the average Redditor.
  
  Source: A good go-to book about medieval sexuality is Vern Bullough and James Brundage (eds.), Handbook of Medieval Sexuality (2000).
  
  EDIT: Worth adding that pretty much everything I described above was considered sinful, sometimes gravely so (like adultery and sodomy), but this didn't not seem to overly deter people.

>$5,250 copy of “Complete and Truly Outstanding Works by Homer.”

Protip Mizzou: You can buy a copy of the complete works of Homer on Amazon for about $16. If you shop around at thrift stores, you could probably get them for less than $1 (thought you might have to have them as separate volumes).

Catullus

https://www.amazon.com/Love-Betrayal-Catullus-Bruce-Arnold/dp/0130433454/ref=sr_1_fkmrnull_1?crid=22K0V9X7X9C74&keywords=love+and+betrayal+a+catullus+reader&qid=1558536403&s=gateway&sprefix=love+and+betrayal+%2Caps%2C150&sr=8-1-fkmrnull

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Ovid

https://www.amazon.com/Love-Transformation-Reader-English-Latin/dp/067358920X/ref=sr_1_1?crid=28WT9VPC88Q7S&keywords=love+and+transformation+an+ovid+reader&qid=1558536463&s=gateway&sprefix=ovid+love+and+trans%2Caps%2C157&sr=8-1-spell

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https://www.amazon.com/Ovids-Amores-Book-One-Commentary/dp/0806141441/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=amores+book+1+ovid&qid=1558536435&s=gateway&sr=8-2

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https://www.amazon.com/Ovid-Metamorphoses-VIII-Latin-Texts/dp/1853997226/ref=sr_1_11?keywords=ovid+metamorphoses+8&qid=1558536602&s=gateway&sr=8-11

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Cicero

https://www.amazon.com/Cicero-Pro-Caelio-Marcus-Tullius/dp/0865165599/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=cicero+pro+caelio&qid=1558536500&s=gateway&sr=8-1

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I really enjoyed Ovid at your level, which is why he is over-represented in this list. I know Perseus has commentaries on all the Catullus poems except the more risque ones. Unfortunately, those are also left out of the book I posted here. I would probably go with the Catullus one or the first/second Ovid books, just because I think love poetry is entertaining. The Cicero was definitely more difficult, but had a lot of juicy insults and was also quite fun. I used all of these and they definitely helped me improve my Latin, so whatever you choose will be good, just pick something you'll have fun reading. Good luck and enjoy!

I hear that there indeed is a book you want. Might wanna check if this is it: https://www.amazon.com/Kalevala-Epic-Finnish-People-English/dp/9511101374

Blake used a title "Ancient of Days" but it seems like he meant it to portray deity. He had a very non-conventional view of God, religion, etc.

In the Complete works of William Blake published by Delphi Books (https://www.amazon.com/Delphi-Complete-Works-William-Illustrated-ebook/dp/B009BEED6I), this painting is described as "a depiction of God separating light and darkness". and also references Proverbs chapter 8 (verse 27 says "When he prepared the heavens, I was there" and talks about "when he set a compass upon the face of the depth"). The Delphi Book introduction also says "the Ancient of Days is an an orb of light and He is stooping down and measuring the deep with His compasses".

By the way, most Christian denominations interpret the title Ancient of Days as one of God's names -- see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_of_Days.

Coleman Barks is the most popular one but also the least reliable translation.

You can check out Signs of the Unseen: The Discourses of Jalaluddin Rumi by W.M. Thackston Jr.

Also, Selected Poems of Rumi (Dover Thrift Editions)

Sky Above, Great Wind is a good introduction. There are fun anecdotes about his life in the back of the book.

As Kate Fox pointed out in her book The Racing Tribe, group bonding and deeper social ties between people are created by shared group risk. At its highest level are military units risking death and dismemberment. At a much lower level are tables of folks out at an outing betting on horses. And somewhere in between are lodges of men rehearsing and then performing our initiation rituals.

Dinners do not form fraternal ties. Drinking and toasts do not form fraternal ties. The struggle to perform initiation rituals properly, hitting floor work marks, each member reciting from memory their lines properly. That struggle, and the shared risk of the group being embarrassed by performing poorly when initiating a new candidate, is what creates the mystic tie that binds men together within lodges.

Likewise it is the effort in staging a festive board, in cooking a meal together and not burning everything but instead making a meal that tastes good, that binds. It is our laboring together, and the risk that our labor may fail in any of a thousand different ways, that engraves true friendship upon the heart between those that share the risk of success or failure.

Because men bind by doing things together.

This is also why doing things by yourself, and doing solitary work that is only presented to others, fails to build connections. The man who does everything himself, who avoids working with others because he can't stand the possibility that a project may fail because of others' failures instead of his own, binds himself to no one.

So my recommendation is go back to performing ritual, or cooking meals, or otherwise doing something where you labor shoulder by shoulder in a group with many other men at something that can succeed or fail. Don't use your time in the fraternity to do solitary things. Don't use your time in the fraternity to do things that can't be said to succeed or fail. Instead, choose tasks where you are one of many, you are not in exclusive control, and it takes a group of men to complete the task.

Laboring together in a group with other men in a shared task with shared risk should reduce your social isolation.

Without knowing you both very well, I doubt there's anything much that we can advise you here. For example I and many folk like Rumi but you & she could dislike that, who knows! Go with what your heart & instinct tell you.

It's all ryokan all the time. It's 140 of his poems as well as some of his art and some stories and history about him.

I recommend you explore mysticism. That word used to terrify me, but I've found comfort in it.

Finding God in the Waves is a fantastic book written by a nontheistic mystic. Contrary to "I found God through science!" in the summary, this book doesn't proselytize. It's a very raw, honest account of one man's struggle to find himself after losing faith in God.

Richard Rohr is technically a Catholic friar. He believes in something like a pantheistic deity that is neither male nor female, and he interprets the crucifixion and resurrection as an archetypal story about moving from "false self" to "true self."

Mevlânâ Rumi was a Sufi Muslim mystic. He's currently one of the most popular poets in America. This translation has been criticized by some liberals for erasing Islam,, but frankly, speaking as a liberal myself, and as someone who struggles with chronic depression, the humanism and gorgeous spiritual content of this book saved my life.

Carl Sagan was an astronomer and a cosmologist. He's one of my heroes. Cosmos describes a gorgeous naturalistic world, grounded thoroughly in science. If you're looking for something to believe, this is a must-read. Said he: "Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality." (It would be a disservice to not note that this is said after he'd renounced the idea that the spiritual necessarily belonged to anything other than a natural world.)

Thanks, John. A good suggestion is never late!
I have recently acquired this book with all of Alexander Pope's works and so far I am loving it. I'll read the rape of the lock immediately, thought, since you were so kind as to link it here and since I don't know when I'll get to it an the book I have mentioned.

Just one question. It seems you mentioned two more books (40 sonnets and Shakespeare's sonnets), but both link to the same page. Was that intentional?

Whoops, I was looking at the wrong one. I could have sworn there was one with a similar cover that was the Poetic Edda. Perhaps it was this one. Unfortunately it's been long enough I don't entirely remember. Although I might still have the syllabus somewhere, If I find the exact book I'll update this comment.

I'm no expert on Sumerian mythology, but I would highly recommend the Epic of Gilgamesh. It's a touching tale about the quest for immortality and it's pretty easy to understand.
Here is a link to buy the E-book:
https://www.amazon.com/Epic-Gilgamesh-Classics-Penguin-ebook/dp/B002RI9VZS

Mi-am propus sa citesc lista lui Neil deGrasse Tyson. Chiar mi-am downloadat versiunea epub a bibliei. Din pacate, e nevoie de mai multa liniste si rabdare decat am anticipat.

Ca propunere recomand "The Gift" by Hafez. Sunt cam 1/3 in carte si este superba.

The works are poetry so it's hard to translate them. Partial English translations of Hāfez exist in verse. I don't know about their quality. You can check the Wikipedia article.

Of Ferdowsi's Shāhnāmeh there are no full English translations in verse but there is an okay translation in combined prose and verse by Dick Davis. It was reviewed by NPR.

I think Asian poetry should be your go to for this.
Chinese:
[Hanshan] (https://www.amazon.com/Collected-Mountain-Mandarin-Chinese-English/dp/1556591403/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1481519439&sr=8-1&keywords=hanshan)
[Libai and Dufu] (https://www.amazon.com/Li-Po-Tu-Translated-Introduction/dp/0140442723/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1481519506&sr=8-3&keywords=li+po)
[Tao Yuanming] (https://www.amazon.com/Selected-Poems-Tao-Chien/dp/1556590563/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1481519544&sr=8-1&keywords=Tao+qian)
and Japanese:
[Saigyo] (https://www.amazon.com/Saigyo/dp/023107493X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1481519595&sr=8-1&keywords=Saigyo)
[Basho] (https://www.amazon.com/Narrow-Road-Interior-Writings-Shambhala/dp/1570627169/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1481519621&sr=8-3&keywords=Basho)
[Ryokan] (https://www.amazon.com/Dewdrops-Lotus-Leaf-Poems-Ryokan/dp/1590301080/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1481519642&sr=8-4&keywords=Ryokan)

How about this one?

Only $5897 for the paperback! :D

Also if not interested in long comentaries but just a good English translation [George Thompson's] (https://www.amazon.com/Bhagavad-Gita-New-Translation/dp/0865477442) might do the job.

cake is a girl's best friend

5dollar book that looks cool

We both need this! I think from your wishlist you like cats, and cute cat purses :D This one looks pretty roomy and cute.

I love this little kitty!