Best eschatology books according to redditors

We found 284 Reddit comments discussing the best eschatology books. We ranked the 91 resulting products by number of redditors who mentioned them. Here are the top 20.

Next page

Top Reddit comments about Christian Eschatology:

u/Im_just_saying · 20 pointsr/TrueChristian

He DIDN'T say, "This generation will not pass away before I return," he said, "This generation will not pass away until all these things happen," all these things being the things he referenced before this comment in Mt. 24.

I would suggest that, indeed, all those things did happen before that generation passed away.

Here's a book I wrote on the subject: The End Is Near...Or Maybe Not!.

u/CountGrasshopper · 15 pointsr/Christianity

Why, that could fill an entire book on its own.

u/what-s_in_a_username · 14 pointsr/Psychonaut

I recently finished reading "Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Journey into the Afterlife". Pretty good book, I think most psychonauts would really enjoy it.

The jist of it is, some brain surgeon doesn't believe in NDE or God or Heaven, then he has meningitis, goes into a comma for 7 days during which the part of his brain responsible for human activity shuts down entirely. He wakes up miraculously after experiencing fantastic, timeless realms, meeting angels, the creator (he calls it Om), and now he believes in NDEs.

His book is freakishly convincing. I'm too afraid to believe in it, because it's just too good to be true. He basically met God and was told that we are always loved and we can't do anything wrong, and that the evil on Earth is only allowed because it makes us grow.

I took salvia multiple times, and there were beings there, or it looked that way anyway. It was always unpleasant and confusing as fuck, so I decided not to integrate anything I learned during these trips. Except for a single trip which had a profound impact on me. I left my body, and could clearly see my entire life, somehow, outside of time, as being such a tiny speck in contrast with who or what I really was, as though it was a short experience I was going through, but that which I really am is so far beyond this human life. A bit like if my entire life was just a game or a play or a dream, although that analogy really doesn't do the trip any justice. That was first hand experiential proof, as scientific as it gets, except for the somewhat alarming matter than it's not easily reproducible (until I get my hands on DMT). Still, I know what I experienced.

I think NDEs are peaks beyond the veil. I think life is in a way death, and death is in a way life, in a way that death makes life look like, well, death. And I think this is why I've had, for years now, this creeping suspicion that life isn't real, it's bogus, it's odd and something is up. The splinter in your brain, as The Matrix's Morpheus said (Morpheus is the God of Dreams haha).

Scientists assume that consciousness arises from matter. I think it's the other way around, or at the very least, they arise mutually. This is how science progresses: they come up with a rule, and roll with it until they encounter an exception or anomaly, at which point they need to come up with a better rule. Dogmatic scientists are hopeless, but true scientists will notice that exception and dare to question the depressing assumption that consciousness is an accidental derivative of matter. And when they do, they'll only be several thousand years behind Eastern philosophy.

u/FrigOffCyrus · 13 pointsr/politics

It's a very specific, yet largely influential vein of belief in protestant Christianity. So you can rule out Catholics and most mainline Protestants from this group from the get-go.

Within Protestantism and within the Evangelical sect of Protestantism, there's the point of view called "Millenialism". Basically, from 5 verses in the Bible, specific phrases indicate the end of times are supposed to go like this:

The Holy Land is reunited under Jewish rule, with a Westerner (anti-christ, like Nicolae Carpathia from Left Behind) brokering the deal. Then major wars will break out, the West will collapse, and that will signal the "Rapture" where all true believers are "caught up" and are taken to heaven. Those that are left have to face the Antichrist and the Unholy Trinity (False Prophet, Satan, Antichrist) in a 1000 year-long conflict called "The Tribulation". And after suffering that conflict, what humans are left can redeem themselves and be caught up back in heaven. Then Jesus/God is supposed to defeat the Unholy Trinity and move the "Kingdom" of Heaven (all the souls or people, whatever) back to Earth for eternity, cleansing it of the horrors and destruction from the pre-Trib years and Tribulation itself.

source: Attended a Baptist school in NC for a year where they taught this stuff as part of their "Bible" class. We actually watched Left Behind and then read the relevant passages/commentaries on this to compare how the movie lined up with what the school/teacher/attached church believed and taught. And for them, wars/famine/conflict and then the reunification of the Holy Land is the catalyst to the end times and thus their meeting their maker. I actually had a teacher from that school that retired in 2011 because he believed Harold Camping's prediction of the Rapture happening in May 2011.

It's fucking stupid and it's from as cherrypicked of passages as there gets in the Bible and Christianity. But a substantial swath of Americans believe it, given Evangelical Protestantism is incredibly strong across the country, with an entire quarter of the continent being their main base. I was actually given a book by my Catholic pastor called The Rapture Trap as to why that "eschatology" (study of the end times) is dangerous for Catholics and Christians as a whole.

edit: I'm an ex-catholic that attended this "non-denominational" school in NC, but the school was attached to and funded by a very conservative Baptist Church.

u/aletheia · 12 pointsr/OrthodoxChristianity

Those are kooky fundamentalist views. We've simply never made a big deal of Revelation, we were suspicious of even having it in the canon.

A book I found useful for getting out of the dispensationalist mindset is this book by the Anglican (kindof) Bishop of Reddit [tagged the wrong user].

The tone can be a little informal at points, but it's written to help people open up to an alternative view, not as an exhaustive scholarly work.

Long story short, the Revelation was written in 90ish-AD to believers in 90-ish AD. It is as timelessly and endlessly applicable as any other teaching of the Scriptures, but it was not written to us. What arrogance on our part to assume such a thing.

Anyway, as a recovering Evangelical dispensationalist, I found it useful even if it's not EO doctrine.

u/seagoonie · 11 pointsr/spirituality

Here's a list of books I've read that have had a big impact on my journey.

First and foremost tho, you should learn to meditate. That's the most instrumental part of any spiritual path.

 Ram Dass – “Be Here Now” - https://www.amazon.com/Be-Here-Now-Ram-Dass/dp/0517543052 - Possibly the most important book in the list – was the biggest impact in my life.  Fuses Western and Eastern religions/ideas. Kinda whacky to read, but definitely #1

Ram Dass - “Journey Of Awakening” - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B006L7R2EI - Another Ram Dass book - once I got more into Transcendental Meditation and wanted to learn other ways/types of meditation, this helped out.

 Clifford Pickover – “Sex, Drugs, Einstein & Elves…” - https://www.amazon.com/Sex-Drugs-Einstein-Elves-Transcendence/dp/1890572179/ - Somewhat random, frantic book – explores lots of ideas – planted a lot of seeds in my head that I followed up on in most of the books below

 Daniel Pinchbeck – “Breaking Open the Head” - https://www.amazon.com/Breaking-Open-Head-Psychedelic-Contemporary/dp/0767907434 - First book I read to explore impact of psychedelics on our brains

 Jeremy Narby – “Cosmic Serpent” - https://www.amazon.com/Cosmic-Serpent-DNA-Origins-Knowledge/dp/0874779642/ - Got into this book from the above, explores Ayahuasca deeper and relevancy of serpent symbolism in our society and DNA

 Robert Forte – “Entheogens and the Future of Religion” - https://www.amazon.com/Entheogens-Future-Religion-Robert-Forte/dp/1594774382 - Collection of essays and speeches from scientists, religious leaders, etc., about the use of psychedelics (referred to as Entheogens) as the catalyst for religion/spirituality

 Clark Strand – “Waking up to the Dark” - https://www.amazon.com/Waking-Up-Dark-Ancient-Sleepless/dp/0812997727 - Explores human’s addiction to artificial light, also gets into femininity of religion as balance to masculine ideas in our society

 Lee Bolman – “Leading with Soul” - https://www.amazon.com/Leading-Soul-Uncommon-Journey-Spirit/dp/0470619007 - Discusses using spirituality to foster a better, more supportive and creative workplace – pivotal in my honesty/openness approach when chatting about life with coworkers

 Eben Alexander – “Proof of Heaven” - https://www.amazon.com/Proof-Heaven-Neurosurgeons-Journey-Afterlife/dp/1451695195 - A neurophysicist discusses his near death experience and his transformation from non-believer to believer (title is a little click-baity, but very insightful book.  His descriptions of his experience align very similarly to deep meditations I’ve had)

 Indries Shah – “Thinkers of the East” - https://www.amazon.com/Thinkers-East-Idries-Shah/dp/178479063X/ - A collection of parables and stories from Islamic scholars.  Got turned onto Islamic writings after my trip through Pakistan, this book is great for structure around our whole spiritual “journey”

 Whitley Strieber – “The Key: A True Encounter” - https://www.amazon.com/Key-True-Encounter-Whitley-Strieber/dp/1585428698 - A man’s recollection of a conversation with a spiritual creature visiting him in a hotel room.  Sort of out there, easy to dismiss, but the topics are pretty solid

 Mary Scott – “Kundalini in the Physical World” - https://www.amazon.com/Kundalini-Physical-World-Mary-Scott/dp/0710094175/ - Very dense, very difficult scientific book exploring Hinduism and metaphysics (wouldn’t recommend this for light reading, definitely something you’d want to save for later in your “journey”)

 Hermann Hesse – “Siddartha” - https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/siddhartha-hermann-hesse/1116718450? – Short novel about a spiritual journey, coming of age type book.  Beautifully written, very enjoyable.

Reza Aslan - “Zealot” - https://www.amazon.com/ZEALOT-Life-Times-Jesus-Nazareth/dp/140006922X - Talks about the historical Jesus - helped me reconnect with Christianity in a way I didn’t have before

Reza Aslan - “No god but God” - https://www.amazon.com/god-but-God-Updated-Evolution/dp/0812982444 - Same as above, but in terms of Mohammad and Islam.  I’m starting to try to integrate the “truths” of our religions to try and form my own understanding

Thich Nhat Hanh - “Silence” - https://www.amazon.com/Silence-Power-Quiet-World-Noise-ebook/dp/B00MEIMCVG - Hanh’s a Vietnamese Buddhist monk - in this book he writes a lot about finding the beauty in silence, turning off the voice in our heads and lives, and living in peace.

Paulo Coelho - “The Alchemist” - https://www.amazon.com/Alchemist-Paulo-Coelho/dp/0062315005/ - Sort of a modern day exploration of “the path” similar to “Siddhartha.”  Very easy and a joy to read, good concepts of what it means to be on a “path”

Carlos Castaneda - "The Teachings of Don Juan" - The Teachings of Don Juan: A Yaqui Way of Knowledge https://www.amazon.com/dp/0671600419 - Started exploring more into shamanism and indigenous spiritual work; this book was a great intro and written in an entertaining and accessible way. 

Jean-Yves Leloup - “The Gospel of Mary” - https://www.amazon.com/Gospel-Mary-Magdalene-Jean-Yves-Leloup/dp/0892819111/ - The book that finally opened my eyes to the potentiality of the teachings of Christ.  This book, combined with the one below, have been truly transformative in my belief system and accepting humanity and the power of love beyond what I’ve found so far in my journey.

Jean-Yves Leloup - “The Gospel of Philip” - https://www.amazon.com/Gospel-Philip-Magdalene-Gnosis-Sacred/dp/1594770220 - Really begins to dissect and dive into the metaphysical teachings of Christ, exploring the concept of marriage, human union and sexuality, and the power contained within.  This book, combined with the one above, have radically changed my perception of The Church as dissimilar and antithetical to what Christ actually taught.

Ram Dass - “Be Love Now” - https://www.amazon.com/Be-Love-Now-Path-Heart/dp/0061961388 - A follow-up to “Be Here Now” - gets more into the esoteric side of things, his relationship with his Guru, enlightenment, enlightened beings, etc.

Riane Eisler - “The Chalice and the Blade” - https://www.amazon.com/Chalice-Blade-Our-History-Future/dp/0062502891 - An anthropoligical book analyzing the dominative vs cooperative models in the history and pre-history of society and how our roots have been co-opted and rewritten by the dominative model to entrap society into accepting a false truth of violence and dominance as “the way it is”

u/mpaganr34 · 9 pointsr/Reformed

Kingdom Come by Sam Storms is an awesome book for your situation. Very thorough, but not overly technical, so it's not hard to grasp his arguments.

u/Tin_Maness · 9 pointsr/Christianity

Yeah, actually most Christians don't believe in it and never have. It's really restricted to evangelical circles (like Southern Baptists). This book by our own /u/im_just_saying covers the topic well. He grew up pre-trib and became a-mil: http://www.amazon.com/The-End-Near-Maybe-Not/dp/1470001772

u/Backwoods_Boy · 8 pointsr/Christians

Since I'm not taking classes this semester, I'm taking the time to read several books:

Reformation Theology: A Systematic Summary by Matthew Barrett

The Apostolic Fathers in English along with Reading the Apostolic Fathers

Dispensationalism by Charles Ryrie

Covenant Theology: A Reformed Baptist Perspective by Phillip Griffiths

Philosophy for Understanding Theology by Allen and Springsted

The Love of Wisdom: A Christian Introduction to Philosophy by Cowen and Spiegel

And Wheelock's Latin

I'm already into Reformation Theology and the Apostolic Fathers. I highly recommend both books, but I have thoroughly enjoyed reading the Apostolic Fathers. I've learned so much about the Early Church and its diversity of beliefs and practices. These were works by people who knew and studied under the Apostles themselves.

u/dan121 · 7 pointsr/Christianity

I'm not familiar with specific Roman Catholic teachings on Heaven ... but I certainly wouldn't look to "Heaven is for Real" as a source of sound doctrine.

You could be running into some problems insofar as that where there isn't official RC dogma on a topic, people are allowed to hold a variety of interpretations and understandings.

It's also important to draw a distinction between heaven as God's current spiritual realm, and heaven as the ultimate stated of restored creation: a new Heaven and Earth.

You might find Peter Kreeft's book "Everything You Ever Wanted to Know About Heaven" helpful: http://www.amazon.com/Everything-Ever-Wanted-About-Heaven/dp/0898702976/

u/TurkeyTap · 7 pointsr/greatawakening

This book will blow your mind. A great read for what's waiting on the other side for good hearted people. No doubt there is a God and that he's Great in every way possible.

Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Journey into the Afterlife https://www.amazon.com/dp/1451695195/ref=cm_sw_r_em_apa_i_Doq.Ab11JC0M5

u/PaedragGaidin · 6 pointsr/Christianity
u/ELeeMacFall · 6 pointsr/Christianity

I invite you to investigate N.T. Wright's take on "Kingdom Eschatology", a branch of Inagurated Eschatology. There is also a wonderful book on the topic written by /r/Christianity regular /u/Im_Just_Saying, entitled The End is Near: Or Maybe Not!

Eschatology should be good news for the world. Rapture theology is escapism and triumphalism wrapped up in American Exceptionalism, and it's a really weird eschatological development IMO.

u/[deleted] · 6 pointsr/Christianity

>[2] /u/im_just_saying has good thoughts on this. He's even written an easy-to-read book!

Link to the book. I highly recommend it.

u/Mutedplum · 5 pointsr/Jung

Edinger describes this phenomenon as such in this book:
>(ppl possessed by the apocalypse archetype) generally express themselves in religious (archetypal) terminology. The enemy is seen as the Principle of Objective evil (Devil) and the zealot perceives himself as the 'heroic' agent of divine or Objective Justice (God). Zealots are possessed by transpersonal, archetypal dynamisms deriving from the collective unconscious.
 

(hopefully this is more Troll and less possession for Mr Twitch's sake....it can also lead to the start of the individuation process if one doesn't lose their shit (or is able to regather it))

u/Kenyko · 5 pointsr/Catholicism

There will be no rapture.

I recommend this book on the matter: https://www.amazon.com/Rapture-Trap-Catholic-Response-Times/dp/0965922820

u/Rinky-dink · 5 pointsr/bahai

A quick but fascinating read is Preparing for Christ's New Name.

u/captainhaddock · 5 pointsr/Christianity

Also, those end times books aren't going to sell themselves.

I can get you all a great deal on 88 Reasons Why the Rapture Will Be in 1988.

u/McJames · 4 pointsr/theology

Others have provided a good immediate response, but if you want to do more reading, then Edward Fudge has written several books on the matter. The most recent one that is supposed to summarize all his work for a popular audience is called Hell: A Final Word. Please note that he comes down pretty strongly on the side that says eternal conscious torment (aka, the modern version of Hell) is not biblical.

u/TroyKing · 4 pointsr/DebateAChristian

> Your other arguments are weak half-arguments, as you already admit.

It's not a fight of two or three pet verses. In fact, the bible verse index alone to Fudge's The Fire That Consumes is over 1,000 entries. That goes up to about 1,400 when you include the Pseudepigrapha, Apocrypha/Deuterocanonical, Dead Sea Scrolls, and Church Fathers.

So Righteous_Dude's arguments aren't weak; he's merely being polite and stating what the arguments are. When you review every single biblical reference to "the fate of the wicked", the overwhelming number of references is that they are ultimately destroyed, not that they are kept alive in some form and tortured.

u/B_anon · 4 pointsr/ReasonableFaith

Definely an interesting area of study, I appreciate Sir John Eccles parallel between the brain and the mind being like that of a piano and a piano player, with the music being the stream of consciousness.

So, if we switched the piano, what would happen to the music?

Quite a few interesting possibilities, perhaps the person would know they are themselves but need to learn how to play with a new instrument. What would be the implications of this?

Perhaps God has placed the part he gives to consciousness in a part or the whole brain which would lead to one personhood being in charge over another.


This seems to be the question your asking and I find it intriguing. It should be noted that any results could be interpreted to be in favor of dualism, so this isn't really the brain vs the soul. Theist are open to follow the evidence where it leads, by contrast, the atheist cannot, if for example, the person wakes up being the same person after surgery.






Have you heard of the neurosurgeon Eben Alexander that wrote a book on his near death experience while his brain wave activity was being monitored? If there are states of consciousness when there is no brain activity going on, then brain wave activity is not a necessary condition of consciousness.



Have you seen the studies by Benjamin Libet?



Libet discovered that prior to a person’s awareness of his decision to press the button, a brain signal had already occurred which resulted in his finger’s later moving. So the sequence is: (1) a brain signal occurs about 550 milliseconds prior to the finger’s moving; (2) the subject has an awareness of his decision to move his finger about 200 milliseconds prior to his finger’s moving; (3) the person’s finger moves. On a second run of the experiments, Libet discovered that even after the brain signal fired and people were aware of their decision to push the button, people still retained the ability to veto the decision and refrain from pushing the button! This is precisely what a dualist interactionist would expect to see.

u/FlareCorran · 3 pointsr/Christianity

There's this one of course: http://www.amazon.com/The-End-Near-Maybe-Not/dp/1470001772

I'm not in 100% agreement, but he does a good job.

u/Draxonn · 3 pointsr/Christianity

You've already received many lengthy answers and I don't want to waste your time, so I will try to be brief.

There are a great many Christians who reject also reject the picture of God you have painted. It is contradictory that a loving God would a) torture people for eternity for b) rejecting a twisted contradictory picture of him (unfortunately, this is so often the picture presented as "Biblical"). If you are interested in looking for better explanations, I have a few ideas and suggestions.

First, I find great hope in the story of the sheep and the goats in Matthew 24. While it does not address hell, I provides a surprising answer to question b. In the story, at judgment, people are divided into two groups. The division is specifically not on the basis of a profession of faith. Rather, people are judged by how they loved and cared for the needy around them. Most interestingly, neither party recognizes that care as being about loving God--it was simply something they did or did not do, an expression of who they were on a fundamental level. Now, I don't know you or your wife, so that judgement remains in God's hands, but this story certainly seems to indicate that the deciding factor is how we live and love others, rather than whether we claim to be "Christian." This is an old Christian idea called "inclusivism."

Secondly, I would answer with the simplicity of John 3:16: "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life." To address the obvious mention of belief, I would suggest that the evidence of what we truly believe is in the way we live, not the words we speak. But more importantly, I would emphasize the juxtaposition of eternal life with death--not eternal conscious torment, simply death. This is an old Christian perspective called "conditional immortality" or "annihilationism."

TL;DR--The way we live our lives demonstrates what we truly believe. We live in a way either affirming of life (and receive eternal life) or destructive of life (resulting in death).

Of course, I had a friend who struggled with this and it took further reading for her to sort through it. I would point to a few resources:

Rethinking Hell is probably the best place to learn about annihilationism.

On Digma, Ty Gibson talks about his rejection of the same God you reject, without giving up on Christianity. The videos are very short. Specifically, look at "Atheist Too" and "Distorted."

If you're a reader like me, the closing chapters of C. S. Lewis' The Last Battle gives a wonderful explanation of how word and action relate to salvation.

You could also look up Edward Fudge, who has written the most substantial Biblical consideration of Hell I am aware of. Spoiler: He rejects it in favour of Annihilationism. The Fire That Consumes is his masterwork. Hell: A Final Word is the short version.

Finally, and a little farther afield, Walter Kauffmann's Critique of Religion and Philosophy traces the influence of Greek philosophy on Christian thought which led to these particular (I would argue) unBiblical beliefs--immortal soul, eternal torment, priority of idea over action). This is a more academic read.

Unfortunately, I don't know of any good resources on inclusivism.

I hope this helps.

u/kvrdave · 3 pointsr/Christianity

I use to be big into this stuff and it's just an empty well. Paul thought Jesus would return in his lifetime and at every point throughout history. One day I realized that people never seem to get prophesy correct and Jesus was clear that even he didn't know the time it would happen. And likely our entire idea of the "end times" is just plain incorrect.

Here's a book on the 88 reasons the rapture will occur in 1988. I was in high school and I don't recall it ever happening. Life is far better once you give up the end times stuff and recognize that no one knows. For all we know Jesus was talking about the end of the times billions of years from now. Once you get out of it you can look back and see how silly it all really is.

u/TJ_Floyd · 3 pointsr/Reformed

Dispensationalism^[1] is the driving force behind the Zionist movement. Most Dispensationalists believe that modern Israel is the eschatological Israel and is connected with the End Times. So, they believe that if the United States does not politically support Israel, then God's wrath will be poured out over the United States. Dispensationalism greatly influences US politics and foreign relations. John Haggee, a Dispensationalist pastor, once said

> "The United States must join Israel in a pre-emptive military strike against Iran to fulfill God's plan for both Israel and the West... A biblically prophesied end-time confrontation with Iran, which will lead to the Rapture, Tribulation, and Second Coming of Christ." - [source: The Last Days of Dispensationalism by Alistair Donaldson pg. vii](https://books.google.com/books?id=x49MAwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=The+last+days+of+dispensationalism&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi7pOLb9qziAhWHMd8KHS_BDKgQuwUIKjAA#v=onepage&q=The%20last%20days%20of%20dispensationalism&f=false/ The Last Days of Dispensationalism by Alistair Donaldson pg. v)

So, Dispensationalism has had a huge influence on American politics that also affects our foreign policy and military influence in the rest of the world.

[1] By Dispensationalism, I mean the Classical Dispensationalism espoused by Ryrie and Scofield, although it may include more extreme forms like Hyper-Dispensationalism.

Edit: I highly recommend the book I quoted earlier. I don't agree with the author on every point, but his book is a nice critique of Ryrie's Dispensationalism.

u/adamthrash · 3 pointsr/Christianity

In case he's busy, he has a book on the subject that's short and easy to read.

u/CatholicGuy · 3 pointsr/Christianity

A fantastic book on this subject is: The Rapture Trap: A Catholic Response to End Times Fever by Paul Thigpen.

It does a wonderful job explaining where this belief comes from and how it may actually be harmful to Christians who support it.


http://www.amazon.com/The-Rapture-Trap-Catholic-Response/dp/0965922820

u/Agrona · 3 pointsr/Christianity

Some other books on the topic of eschatology (the "end times") worth reading (or listening to):

NT Wright's Surprised by Hope

Kenneth Meyer's The End Is Near...Or Maybe Not!

u/r0lav · 3 pointsr/Christianity

Another good book - a bit of a quicker read and more of an introduction. Although, I can't recommend Wright's book enough.

u/mennonitedilemma · 3 pointsr/OrthodoxChristianity

Yes, the quotes are out of context. For example, look at the Shephard of Hermas quote:


>2[6]:6 Thou shalt therefore say unto the elders of the Church, that they direct their paths in righteousness, that they may receive in full the promises with abundant glory.

Basically, this verse says that we should stay on the path of righteousness in order to receive a reward.

>2[6]:7 Ye therefore that work righteousness be steadfast, and be not double-minded, that ye may have admission with the holy angels.

The word "therefore" indicates a conclusion. Therefore, our works should be steadfast, not double minded in order to have admission with the holy angelsl

Now here is the critical section quoted by this site:

>Blessed are ye, as many as endure patiently the great tribulation that cometh, and as many as shall not deny their life.

Here, we see a old english word "cometh" which is in the 3rd person singular present indicative. There is no future tribulation hinted by the text itself. If someone wants to look at the Greek, I am sure it is also the same case for the Greek, or else this word would not be used in the translation. Thus, the future tense is read into the Shephard of Hermas by these rapture proponents, and the true meaning of the great tribulation is something that is being endured in the present. This careless reading of scripture and other texts is really a hallmark of the rapture movement.

Additionally, The scriptures themselves do not teach the rapture. I recommend reading the Anglican Bishop Kenneth Myers book "The end is near... or maybe not."

http://www.amazon.com/The-End-Near-Or-Maybe-Not/dp/1470001772/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1345680055&sr=8-1&keywords=the+end+is+near+or+maybe+not

He was a firm believer in the Rapture theology, but when the rapture never happened when it was supposed to after the formation of Israel, he began to read the Scriptures more carefully, and now holds a more orthodox position.

Anyhow, So what should we do with these people? Love them, respect that they believe these things. I would not let their quotes bother you though.

u/smakusdod · 3 pointsr/bahai

Some good info here.

Read Alex Gottdank's book Christ's New Name. This guy (imo) is the authority on Christianity as it relates to the Faith, and vice versa.

[insert meme about last name]

u/zimm3r16 · 3 pointsr/worldnews

Well I'll explain the difference or at least try to.
Government you have two options
Do it (some legal mandate) or end up in jail (forcefully imprison you do to your actions)

Do it (some none legal mandate but rather teaching such as 5+5=10) or end up in hell (willfully by choice as a result of free will)

Catholic teaching is that you have free will but naturally there are consequences from them. You live a life where you have free will, the ability to choose, to generally form yourself as a morally good person or bad person. Now when you die you have made a choice through your actions. The choice you have made is directly heaven or hell.

Why is this the case? Well where else would you go? Your soul lives on there cannot be annihilation just like matter can't be destroyed (comparison I'm sure some quantum something or other says it can...). You soul can go to heaven and share in the beatific vision or not. To a person who has formed their life in rejection of god (through bad actions) this would hardly be something desired to share eternally being close to that which you reject. But you're then left with the other choice, that which all those who reject god go. This place is called hell.

On several theories of how hell's punishment is and isn't. In the bible hell is spoken to as a fire in Jesus' teachings but it is also warned that the punishment is much worse then physical fire. So what is it? Some theologians have theorized, as CS Lewis put it

“All your life an unattainable ecstasy has hovered just beyond the grasp of your consciousness. The day is coming when you will wake to find, beyond all hope, that you have attained it, or else, that it was within your reach and you have lost it forever.”
― C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain


Others have given the theory that there is only heaven, there is no other 'place' to go but that the heaven or hell choice comes from the state of the individual. For those who rejected god it is a pain, seeing their creator causes them pain for in their hearts they hate him.

Here is some more if you want to read up on it

http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics/heaven.htm
http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics/hell.htm
http://www.amazon.com/Everything-Wanted-Heaven-Dreamed-Asking/dp/0898702976
http://www.amazon.com/Heaven-Hearts-Deepest-Longing-Kreeft/dp/0898702283/ref=pd_sim_b_1
http://www.amazon.com/Making-Sense-Suffering-Peter-Kreeft/dp/0892832193/ref=pd_sim_b_2

u/Zaerth · 3 pointsr/DebateAChristian

It's understandable, and in truth, I thank you for pressing me. This was a good dialogue and helped for me to articulate what I actually believe. I know you're an atheist, but if you're interested in the subject, there are two books that I have not read yet (but I've ordered them!) that kind of follow my line of thinking:

  • "Love Wins" by Rob Bell. Bell got a lot of flak when this came out, and I'm sure some of may have been justified. However, he was also stirring the pot on a controversial subject. From what I've gathered, he leans towards universalism, i.e. everyone eventually goes to heaven, which I do not espouse.

  • "Hell, A Final Word: The Surprising Truths I Found in the Bible," by Edward Fudge. Fudge and I went to the same alma mater, so I'm familiar with his view. Like him, I tend towards annihilationism, which is that "hell" is not too different than what most atheists believe will happen when they die.
u/KSW1 · 3 pointsr/Christianity

There is a section after that prophecy where He does mention the end of the world, but the main takeaway from that is that no one knows when that is.

You wanna read a book about the subject? Our very own /u/im_just_saying tackled the issue in tremendous fashion in this book.

u/sheeksta · 3 pointsr/bahai

>Though we cannot imagine exactly what the Manifestations

Np! This is a friend's book and wonderful study on the subject

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0879612673/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_taft_p1_i0

u/ptcc1983 · 2 pointsr/Christianity

It is wonderful you have those questions! Because God is like Jesus. He has always been like Jesus. There has never been a time when God was not like Jesus. We didn't use to know this. But now we do! (sentence by B. Zhand)

I've been in a very similar position to the one you are now - I also grew up a Christian and then it started slowly around 6 years ago, and when I started reading the whole Bible from the beginning the questions just got really loud!
I was no longer able to ignore the very same questions you are making.

​

But I kept searching for answers. I deconstructed my faith house, and God started rebuilding it, in a whole different and more beautiful form.

​

>“Why would an all loving all powerful God send his own children, no matter what they believe, to be tortured for all of eternity.”

He does not. There are several ways to understand the Biblical texts about hell, and eternal conscious torture is just one of them (and the worst way to read actually).

>I also began noticing verses that were, to put it bluntly, completely barbaric and disgusting.

Yes, they are. Those verses picture God in a way that is not how He is. And God allowed them to be written like that.

There's an awesome book that really helped me to the point that now I'm able to read the Bible again, still see it as inspired, but not disregard these questions, and these very subpar pictures of God.

Please do read "Cross Vision" from Gregory A Boyd

besides this invaluable book I also read these, and all of them helped me a lot:

u/devoNOTbevo · 2 pointsr/Reformed

Sam Storms discusses replacement theology in his new book. His treatment is rather good. I'd suggest looking into it, if not to just have talking points to discuss with him.

u/tanhan27 · 2 pointsr/Reformed

Certainly not reformed. But interesting theory. Not saying I believe it, but I'm more than 0% open to thinking about it. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IGGZRJY/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

u/GregoireDeNarek · 2 pointsr/Christianity

Can we start a book group and read through 88 Reasons Why The Rapture Will Be in 1988?

u/WhatMeWorry · 2 pointsr/explainlikeimfive

Why the downvotes? Would you credit a neurosurgeon's near-death experience? "Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Journey into the Afterlife" http://www.amazon.com/Proof-Heaven-Neurosurgeons-Journey-Afterlife/dp/1451695195

u/AEEARTE · 2 pointsr/Jung

Archetype of the Apocalypse: A Jungian Study of the Book of ...
https://www.amazon.com/Archetype-Apocalypse-Jungian-Study.../dp/0812693957
Archetype of the Apocalypse: A Jungian Study of the Book of Revelation Hardcover – May 1, 1999. ... With this book, he constructs a Jungian interpretation of the Bible's "Book of Revelation", and offers his view of the meanings of images that have intrigued our culture for over 2000 ...
Nonfiction Book Review: Archetype of the Apocalypse

u/EmoHaircut · 2 pointsr/OurFlatWorld

I'm new to this subreddit as well. One must tread carefully when discussing this topic it seems. Though personally I really don't like the term 'Flat Earth', A Geocentric / Ptolemaic system would be more accurately defined. Generally I'd rather trust published authors rather than a convincing Youtube video. On that note however there are a few people I've taken interest in throughout my learning process. Dave Murphy, Eric Dubay, Mark Sargent, Rob Skiba, ODD TV, (all of whom have many skeptics, but I guess you will when discussing such a controversial topic such as 'Flat Earth'). Regardless there is a lot of information on this subject, I'll post some books below to get you started.

https://www.amazon.com/100-Proofs-That-Earth-Globe/dp/1523463317

https://www.amazon.com/Zetetic-Astronomy-Earth-Not-Globe/dp/1537084798

https://www.amazon.com/Zetetic-Cosmogony-Conclusive-Revolving-Stationary/dp/1534909184

https://www.amazon.com/Zetetic-Astronomy-Earth-Not-Globe/dp/1523612126

https://www.amazon.com/Atlantean-Conspiracy-Final-Eric-Dubay/dp/1304634396

https://www.amazon.com/Flat-Earth-Clues-Skys-Limit/dp/1523851430

https://www.amazon.com/Babylon-Rising-updated-expanded-First/dp/1492170097

https://www.amazon.com/Genesis-Conspiracy-Societies-Descendants-Humankind/dp/1632692902

https://www.amazon.com/Great-Inception-Satans-Psyops-Armageddon/dp/0998142646

https://www.amazon.com/Zetetic-Astronomy-Earth-Globe-Forgotten/dp/1605064173

https://www.amazon.com/Worlds-Beyond-Poles-Physical-Continuity/dp/0986130532

https://books.google.com/books/about/The_Enlightenment_of_the_World_by_John_G.html?id=SnNAQwAACAAJ

https://books.google.com/books/about/Adrian_Galilio_Or_a_Song_Writer_s_Story.html?id=FFsRPAAACAAJ

https://www.amazon.com/Eccentric-Lives-Peculiar-Notions-Michell/dp/0932813674

https://books.google.com/books/about/Foundations_of_Many_Generations.html?id=YriTnQEACAAJ

https://archive.org/stream/william_carpenter-is_the_newtonian_astronomy_true_201612/william_carpenter-is_the_newtonian_astronomy_true_djvu.txt

https://www.amazon.com/Kings-dethroned-Hickson-Gerrard/dp/B01FA690L8

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2a2OO8hd8iMa0F2c3M5bDlhMVE/view [Midnight Sun, The (A. Smith) (Handwritten).pdf]

https://staticearth.wordpress.com/learning/library/



u/DenSem · 2 pointsr/Christianity

I'd recommend checking out Victorious Eschatology as a helpful way of understanding at least the general guiding principals. The title sounds heady, but it's really approachable.

u/BukkRogerrs · 2 pointsr/skeptic

> This makes Colton Burpo the only little adorable liar to still claim he died, saw God, and then came back and cashed in.

Hah! What?

Richard Sigmund

Trudy Harris (on behalf of others)

Mary Neal

Eben Alexander

Marvin Besteman

Crystal McVea

Dale Black

James Garlow (on behalf of others)

Seneca Sodi

Sid Roth (on behalf of others)

Reggie Anderson


and on and on and Ariston...

u/Parrot132 · 2 pointsr/atheism

The actual title is Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Journey into the Afterlife.

Be careful to not confuse neurosurgeon with neurologist or neuroscientist. It's like the difference between an engineer and a scientist. I don't see any reason that a surgeon who knows how to operate on brains would have any special authority to write on the existence of an afterlife.

Here's a description of the book:

http://www.amazon.com/Proof-Heaven-Neurosurgeons-Journey-Afterlife-ebook/dp/B008AK8FHM

tl;dr: He didn't believe in an afterlife until after he suffered some brain damage.

u/TenFootPlant · 2 pointsr/Christianity

Kingdom Come by Sam Storms is a pretty thorough critique of dispensationalism: http://www.amazon.com/Kingdom-Come-The-Amillennial-Alternative/dp/1781911320.

u/kempff · 2 pointsr/Catholicism

> a mass forever

Yes but without guitars.

Try this: www.amazon.com/Everything-Wanted-Heaven---Dreamed-Asking/dp/0898702976/

u/Kanshan · 2 pointsr/TrueChristian
u/pjsans · 2 pointsr/AskBibleScholars

I want to first apologize. In considering my last response I realized that I came off much more aggressively defensive than I would have liked to. Please accept my apologies and I thank you for stating your openness and for being patient with me.

I am not sure exactly what you think does not agree with the Greek, you mention "tenses" so I assume you are referring to what I wrote about Matthew 25:46. The first scholarly work that I'll mention is The Fire that Consumes, which is the most referenced work on the topic by Annihilationists and Traditionalists alike.. Before I quote from his work, I want to state more clearly that I believe that the eternal punishment mentioned at the end of the parable of the sheep and the goats is literally eternal punishment, punishment that will never end. So, turning to Fudge:

>Jesus attaches the adjective "eternal" to the word punishment (kolasis), a noun of that class that names the result of an action.

He then moves to other examples of the adjective eternal with other result-nouns.

On Heb. 6:1-4 and eternal judgment

>Among the "elementary teachings" that make up the "foundation" of Christian teaching are "the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment." This is literally the resurrection "of the dead ones" (plural, nekron, seemingly both good and bad), and it is linked to a judgment belonging to the age to come, not merely a judgment made by man or God in the here and now. That is its quality, but what of its duration? How is the last judgment "eternal" in the sense of everlasting?

>We notice that the adjective "eternal" does not modify an action-word (a verbal substantive, either infinitive or participle) as if to speak of God as eternally judg-ing. Instead it modifies a noun, indeed a result-noun in form, and so speaks of eternal judg-ment (krimatos).

On Heb. 9:11-12 and eternal redemption

>The adjective "eternal" describes a noun, in form a result-noun, and it tells us that the "redemp-tion" (lytrosis) is eternal and not the redeem-ing.

He also discusses Heb. 5:9-10 eternal salvation, and 2 Thess 1:9 eternal destruction, but hopefully you get my point. Tense-wise, this is still consistent with an Annihilationist reading.

If you were specifically wanting interaction or further defense of other instances of aionias let me know.

---

I am not sure exactly what part of this you are looking for scholarly articles for. Aionias? or Annihilationism in general? Can you clarify a bit so I can better refer you?

u/cruisethevistas · 2 pointsr/exchristian

I hope you and your fiancé are able to get out of there soon.

I remember being in my Grandpa's house with a pile of books strewn across their home office entitled, "'88 Reasons why the Rapture will be in 1988". The person who wrote the book sent out copies to churches to distribute to their congregations. My Grandpa was a pastor at the time, so I'm assuming these copies were left over from that distribution.

It was the early 90s by this time.

There will always be people predicting the world's end, and they will always look foolish when the appointed date comes and goes.

u/crowbar520 · 2 pointsr/TrueAskReddit

I believe, that, following the logic of quantum mechanics, the electrons firing in our brain exist somewhere else in the infinite multiverse, and that when we die, our consciousness transfers from here to there.
Read this book.

u/BranchDavidian · 2 pointsr/Christianity

Our own /u/im_just_saying wrote this book on the topic, which I think fits your criteria nicely. Also check out Victorious Eschatology if you're looking for a couple options. Neither are overly-complicated/scholarly.

u/bradmeyerlive · 2 pointsr/Christianity

If you really want to learn this more traditional view, here's the book that bulldozed my rapture theology: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0813343143?pc_redir=1406544782&robot_redir=1#

u/anakrino · 2 pointsr/Reformed

Sam Storms book Kingdom Come does a good and (I think) fair job of breaking down most of the different end times perspectives. Even if you don't end up adopting Storms' Amillennialism--I did not--you'll come away understanding the basics of most different positions.

u/drevill · 1 pointr/Christianity

Here's a good book to read on the End Times...The End is Near...Or Maybe Not. I think you'll find it somewhat informative and interesting. It's pretty easy to read and tries to not get bogged down in semantics too much. Whether you agree with all of it or none of it or some of it doesn't matter as much as the fact that you'll be more informed.

For what it's worth to me a wrathful God goes against everything that Jesus did by dying on the cross. Judgment does not mean wrath. Also, tried really hard to find anything about trans people and bathrooms in the Bible. Pretty sure it's a non-issue.

u/EricTboneJackson · 1 pointr/atheism

Um.. Harry Potter and his friends carefully investigated Hogwarts, ergo it exists. Right?

This guy carefully investigated the Rapture and came up with 88 reasons why i'll happen in 1988.

u/RunDogRunDogRun · 1 pointr/conspiracy


No ,Ive got 88 reasons why the Rapture will happen in 1988.


https://www.amazon.com/reasons-Why-Rapture-Will-1988/dp/B00073BM8O

u/roobix · 1 pointr/AskReddit

Yes, I was going to recommend a Bart Erhman book. Jesus, Interrupted is another great title that he has put forth.

If you want one specifically dealing with the modern ideology of the Rapture, I would recommend The Rapture Exposed: The Message of Hope in the Book of Revelation by Barbara Rossing.

u/DutyToWin · 1 pointr/Christianity

I recommend a book by /u/im_just_saying called "The End is Near...Or Maybe Not!", which is about this question. Basically, all of these end times/rapture/Left Behind beliefs are a very new, and amillenialism is much more accurate to what the church has believed historically.

u/Thorntrike · 1 pointr/Christianity

It's true! But you got the year ALL WRONG. I heard of a wonderful book about it: 88 reasons why the rapture will be in 1988!

What makes you think YOU are right this time?

u/CircadianRadian · 1 pointr/Christianity
u/hkdharmon · 1 pointr/todayilearned

It seems that being under surgical anesthesia makes one a perfectly reliable witness, so I can't imagine that DMT would be a problem.

u/qkrnxtl · 1 pointr/C_S_T

I'm agnostic on the issue, although I have taken to heart one mantra from the Tibetan Book of the Dead via the Icelandic band Dead Skeletons:
"HE WHO FEARS DEATH CANNOT ENJOY LIFE."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsyrOGRxF0E

Ah, the Bardo... Has anyone read The Years of Rice and Salt? Great novel, lots of reincarnation shenanigans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Years_of_Rice_and_Salt

Anyone seen "Enter the Void"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enter_the_Void

Also wondering if anyone has checked out this yet: https://www.amazon.com/Dead-Saints-Chronicles-Christian-Afterlife/dp/0997245409

u/Beeftech67 · 1 pointr/atheism

Haha. I'm sorry man, but that will totally not work. This one Jackass wrote a book 88 reasons why the rapture will be in 1988. Not to mention all of the theories from 2000. Nothing happened.

It's rather strange, but people tend to have more faith after the failed claim of the end of the world. I don't understand it, but then I don't understand religion to start with. :)

u/BitChick · 1 pointr/Christianity

I also read this book a couple weeks ago because my friend loaned it to me. It was a bit more technical than John Burke's book so you might actually like it better, but of course I am already convinced that God is real and I believe in Jesus so I probably prefer the more experiential stories because of that. Here is the link if you are interested: http://www.amazon.com/Proof-Heaven-Neurosurgeons-Near-Death-Experience/dp/B009UX6NGI

u/SwampMidget · 1 pointr/Showerthoughts

"Sadly too much evidence against it."

hmmm that's interesting. As a computer scientist and mathematician who has a fascination with quantum computing and it's implications with regard to the loosely defined phenomenon we call consciousness, it seems there are many recent theories that point a metaphysical connection to what we describe as being self aware. To name few: Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research, quantum consciousness studies by Dr. Stuart Haneroff, and of course the many anecdotal studies like Dr. Eben Alexander.

I'm interested to hear your specifics of "too much evidence against it."


God Bless

u/Orange_Astronaut · 1 pointr/atheism

My family has been passing this book around lately, and my mom keeps hinting I should read it because "it's by a neurosurgeon so he knows what he's talking about." I imagine it would at least have some more credibility than The Case for Christ.

I would have recommended that OP gives her a book like The Magic of Reality if he wanted to go with Dawkins. It's at least a more indirect criticism of a lot of the beliefs of different religions, and does a good job of explaining some of the key concepts. Bonus points for the iPad version, because it's got some neat interactive stuff as well.

u/Porso9 · 1 pointr/IAmA

Proof of Heaven: Neurosurgeon gets bacterial meningitis, is stuck in a coma for months, then comes out of it. No one thinks he was going to live due to the condition of his spinal fluid (He claims it was a yellow pus color) Great book.

u/donttazemebro69 · 1 pointr/AskReddit

I don't know if you would be interested but there is a book written by a brain surgeon who believes that visited the after life. Basically this brain surgeon who knows the inner workings of the human brain has to have a surgery done on himself in which he does die for a few moments. In these few moments he experienced a world in which he could only describe as heaven.

Anyways during all of this they had machines doing extensive monitoring of his brain patterns in which he concluded that this couldn't have been a dream of hallucination because the brain patterns didn't line up to create them. I haven't read the book but my mother has and she said it is definitely worth the read.

Edit: you people will down vote anything with the word 'Heaven' in it won't you?

http://www.amazon.com/Proof-Heaven-Neurosurgeons-Journey-Afterlife/dp/1451695195 < theres the book for those interested (if any)

u/tylerjarvis · 1 pointr/Christianity

I actually read this book right when it first came out. He presents some fascinating ideas, and he presents them well. As a response to Rob Bell's Love Wins, it addressed some issues that Bell didn't do an excellent job covering accurately.

Even though I didn't find the book to be particularly persuasive for me, I would second that recommendation.

And for those who struggle with the idea of Hell, but are not going to accept that everyone will get in, I recommend Edward Fudge's Hell, A Final Word, which argues quite persuasively that Hell is indeed real and eternal, but not everlasting, that is, Hell is a place of annihilation, rather than eternal, conscious torment.

Very enlightening.

u/Jim-Jones · 1 pointr/atheism

> "Proof of God."

“Proof of Heaven”?

Reviews

u/batatavada · 1 pointr/india

I'm honestly not a big fan of self help books..

I've been reading a lot of books on the afterlife and rebirth these days.

Downloaded this on my kindle..

u/OhioTry · 1 pointr/Christianity

I would like you to read this:http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0813343143. I think it does a very good job of explaining why the rapture is not a doctrine founded on the Word of God.

u/daturapiss · 0 pointsr/Christianity

I just want to say right quick that to take this shit literally would be, well, stupid.

A metaphoric approach to this book would be better. Because that way we get a glimpse of what other apocalyptic cults have going on under hood.

There's a lot of shit taken directly from the book of Ezekiel. Along with a few standard mythological shit - i.e. the birth of the child from the sun moon woman - the greek myth of leto.

Anyway - i implore you to not take this literally.

"So to summarize: the "archetype of the Apocalypse" is the activation of the archetype of the Self--the central archetype of meaning--that is bringing with it some new worldview, a new God-image, a new relationship to the Divine, and a new stage of psychological maturation for the whole earth. And I suggest "whole earth" as this process appears to be working itself out throughout the world, albeit at varying rates of speed depending on just how deep established cultural roots are. But it's clear Africa has lost its earlier spiritual framework, and India and China are both in some sort of spiritual crisis similar to what was seen in the West during the 1800s."

A book recommendation. http://www.amazon.com/Archetype-Apocalypse-Jungian-Study-Revelation/dp/0812693957

u/Sickeboy · 0 pointsr/DebateAChristian

> Sure we can! I'm going to need to see your evidence of a "soul" or "spirit" that lives on after one dies, though. There's plenty of evidence that we're flesh and blood, just cut into someone and it's right there.

https://www.amazon.com/Proof-Heaven-Neurosurgeons-Near-Death-Experience/dp/B009UX6NGI

> Once again, present your evidence; I can point out that many, many people have died over our history, and not one of them has shown any indication that they are still somehow "alive".

Christ was resurrected.

> No circular reasoning going on here, sir.

the circular reasoning was that there is no spiritual because we are only flesh and bone, that is circular reasoning.

u/iShogi · 0 pointsr/science

Scholar of universes and also non-atheist here. I believe in a God, and from the books I've read on the matter (some Brian Greene, Michio Kaku, and also this book written by a neuroscientist), the possibility of a multiverse is very real. I think we live in one. A lot of the evidence for multiverses is supported by the mathematics behind string theory (read this), but it can't be proven because "strings" are 10^-35 meters long (the Planck length). (We can currently only see things as small as 10^-16 meters long--or centimeters long, I forget.)

It is all very interesting to me. In the last book mentioned, the author, a neuroscientist with presumably no idea of a multiverse, said that he saw (I forget how he worded it) "our world as one among many" when he experienced his out-of-body experience. It's a great read for sure.

Everything that I've read or learned points to the idea of multiple universes inhabited by life but no other intelligent life than that which is on our home planet.

EDIT: grammar

u/OM3N1R · 0 pointsr/todayilearned

Dr. Eben Alexander is his name.

His book http://www.amazon.com/Proof-Heaven-Neurosurgeons-Near-Death-Experience/dp/B009UX6NGI

"Proof of Heaven" is a great starting point for theist/atheist debate.

u/cos1ne · -1 pointsr/DebateReligion

Because its what Christ promised us, during his mission on Earth.

Because it makes sense in the context of scripture.

Because it is reasonable to believe based on our theories of the soul.

I mean there's books on this stuff and there are plenty of online resources about this stuff. Which goes into detail.

u/thepastIdwell · -2 pointsr/atheism

>As much as someone might want to believe in heaven, it's not a belief that the evidence around us supports well.

Ehm...

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10.

And that's just a start. We are literally drowning in evidence of an afterlife, it's just that, as the last link I provided argues for at length, it gets ignored because it goes against the dearest tenets of both the materialists/atheists and the religious people. To quote one of his passages,

"One conclusion I have come to over the years is that both the atheist and the believer, from the fundamaterialist to the fundamentalist, share something in common. In fact, from an epistemological perspective, what they have in common is much more significant than what they disagree about. What they agree about is this: beliefs pertaining to the possible existence of a transcendent reality — God, soul, afterlife, and so on — are based on faith, not fact. If this is true, then there can be no factual evidence that pertains
to such beliefs. This metabelief — that beliefs about a transcendent reality cannot be empirically based — is so deeply entrenched in our culture that it has the status of a taboo. The taboo is very democratic in that it allows everyone to believe whatever he or she wants to believe about such matters. This allows fundamaterialists to feel comfortable in their conviction that reason is on their side, that there is no afterlife, and that those who believe otherwise have fallen prey to the forces of irrationality and wishful thinking. But it also allows fundamentalists to feel comfortable in their conviction that they have God on their side, and that those who believe otherwise have fallen prey to the forces of evil. Thus, although the fundamentalist and the fundamaterialist are on opposite extremes of the spectrum of possible attitudes towards an afterlife, their extreme positions unite them as strange bedfellows in their battles against the possibility that there are matters of fact about the afterlife that empirical research might discover. The very suggestion that empirical research might be relevant to beliefs pertaining to a transcendent reality—that such beliefs are subject to empirical constraint — runs strongly against this taboo, and is hence very threatening to most elements of our culture."

u/Rockran · -3 pointsr/conspiracy

"There are giants among us, passing largely unnoticed, intent on carrying out a secret plan to enslave all humanity. They may not look like giants today, but their bloodlines extend all the way back to the Nephilim―the offspring of angels who mated with human women―described in Genesis 6 when giants roamed the land. Gary Wayne, author of The Genesis 6 Conspiracy: How Secret Societies and the Descendants of Giants Plan to Enslave Humankind, details the role of modern-day Nephilim in Satan’s plan to install the Antichrist at the End of Days."

"When God cast the angel Lucifer and his followers out of heaven, Lucifer set into motion a scheme to ensure the Nephilim survived. Why? Because from the bloodlines of these Nephilim the Antichrist will come. To keep his plan alive, Satan has enlisted the loyalty of secret societies such as the Freemasons, the Templars, and the Rosicrucians to conspire in teaching a theology and a history of the world that is contrary to the biblical one."

"This Genesis 6 Conspiracy marches toward the Great Tribulation, when the loyalty of the Terminal Generation―this generation―will be tested. The Bible, along with many other ancient sources, clearly records the existence of giants. Wayne provides copious citations from many society insiders, along with extensive Bible references, other religious references, and historical material to bolster his contention. What he uncovers will astonish you―and it will challenge you to prepare for the fulfilling of God’s promises."

https://www.amazon.com/Genesis-Conspiracy-Societies-Descendants-Humankind/dp/1632692902

-------------

Taking Genesis seriously? Ew.