> Admit that women control this generations sexual market and access to sex/loss of virginity and that virgin shaming is something they use as a weapon against unsuccesful men

I don't agree. Exercising their right to say "no" does not mean they control anything. Men also have the right to say "no" which women must respect. Plenty of men I've been interested in have turned me down. I don't frame that as them "controlling" the sexual market, just being human beings who are allowed to make personal choices.

And one could argue that among modern teenagers (who are just learning how to relate to each other sexually and possibly learning patterns that will follow them through their lives), boys actually have control because they often pressure, cajole, and shame their female peers into sexual acts. (This book was good for reading about the kind of sexual landscape young girls face)

I don't think virgin shaming is right, and I don't agree with anyone who uses someone else’s sex life as an insult. But many women who haven't had sex feel this shame, too.

> Admit that some people were born genetically inferior to others either through intelligence/beauty/frame/health and that these people have less potential or a much harder time finding a woman to "love" them

Yeah, no one is born equal. Many people will always be more attractive, more intelligent, more talented, healthier, or luckier than you. Other people will have worse circumstances. Maybe someone without some advantages will have fewer people who want to date them, but if you would open your eyes and look around you in the world, you would see that TONS OF unattractive people find love.

I have conventionally “unattractive” friends, male and female, who are always in relationships. I have conventionally attractive friends who are constantly unlucky in love, and it has more to do with their personality and/or the kinds of women they pursue.

> Admit that some people can change themselves and their looks only so much before they have to resort to plastic surgery to fit a majority standard of someone who is desirable/dateable, and that such things as "lookism" only exists because women value looks more so than other features at the start of a relationship

Yeah, again, everyone is born different and some people are more conventionally attractive than others. That's life; that's how it's always worked. But again, if you look around, MANY, MANY ugly people date and find love.

But how can you say that women in particular value looks more than other qualities? If you are seeing someone for the first time and deciding if you're attracted to them, yes of course you're basing that on looks. You have no other information to go on. Do you think men don’t do this?

In my experience, women are much more likely to change their opinion on how attractive someone is after getting to know them. There have been studies that show that women's brains are turned on by a much wider range of things than men's brains. As men age they continue to be attracted to women in their 20s, whereas women seek men close to their own age at every stage of life.

Women's taste is much more varied and malleable than incels want to admit. I feel like the incel community has to ignore almost all of real life relationships to justify this belief that women are only attracted to a small subset of evolutionarily perfect men.

> Admit that women are hypergamous in nature and that it has only gotten significantly worse through things like tinder/social media

Absolutely no. I don't believe this at all and I don't see any evidence for it. Of course it happens in the world because everything does. But 99.99% of women in western society marry for love. Any lingering use of marriage for social climbing is leftover from a patriarchal society where it was the only way women could improve their station.

> Admit that not everyone has an equal chance at "love" compared to those of a higher social status either through beauty/wealth/popularity

Yeah of course everyone doesn't have an equally easy time of attracting sexual partners. That's some basic "life isn't fair" stuff. But "love" is different. I think love is hard to find for anyone, and if you're in a high social status I think it might actually be harder.

> Admit that women don't need a man for most things anymore and that makes men much more disposable

We're getting (slowly) to a point where women will need men for exactly the same reasons men need women. Companionship and partnership and stuff like that. We're all humans and in an equal society we need roughly the same things from each other. Does that make us all disposable? I don't really think so, but I guess you could look at it that way.

> Admit that women are never happy with their base man and that they try to shape them according to their expectations

I think this sounds like a trope from movies. Partners have expectations of each other and they should. But beyond that I don't see how this is super widespread.

> Admit that a relationship wouldn't be very successful if you weren't sexually attracted to your partner

Of course not. So women shouldn't be obligated to sleep with men they're not attracted to. And vice versa.

But also sexual attraction is very individual and very malleable. Some people are attracted to their partner off the bat, some get to know them first and then start to find them more attractive. Some find their partner very attractive even though other people around them may not agree.

But why is that being gendered? Do you think men don’t care what their female partners look like? Do you think men don’t pursue women based on attractiveness? Why is this being framed by incel communities as some special discrimination that only women commit?

> Admit that most of the time a "creep" is someone you find physically unattractive

Absolutely untrue. A creep is someone who doesn't respect boundaries. Men who discount women's experiences are always saying this. Saying it over and over doesn't make it true.

Daoism and zen Buddhism helped me a lot.

Don't dismiss this as new age woo, it's whatever you make of it.

Zen creates a mind set that places you beyond yourself, and from there you can become your own puppet master.

Zen keys by Thich Nhat Hanh is really good.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0385475616/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1521050527&sr=1-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=Zen+keys

Besides that I think it's just really important to have the courage to be your own advocate. No one else but you will always be there for you as bleak as that sounds.

You have to begin seeing yourself as your own magnum opus. Your self is your ultimate creation that you continue to develop and refine and all other things extend from that.

Plato likened a person to a republic in the sense that you can be a master of the self or a slave of the self.

When you sprint at max speed your strength is dragging your weakness along. If you keep doing that you'll unify yourself more and more.

If you want the second slice of cake, you mind says no, but the body says yes.

It's that sort of a thing.

Have faith in yourself that you can be as great as you can imagine yourself to be, and any doubt you have is just the lesser man inside of you trying to snuff out the greater man.

All this talk of cope is really toxic because it is blatantly playing on your weaknesses.

I read a lot of philosophy books and random stuff that I thought could be useful. A really powerful book for me was les miserables.

That was referred to by Hugo as his religious masterpiece, only its a view of Christianity that was overriden by fundamentalism. It's Christianity as a philosophy or even better said, the science of subjectivity. There is nothing supernatural but it demonstrates how there is no need.

If you want me to break down the plot I can but I don't wanna ruin it, but it's basically a perspective on spirituality where you realize what's "true" doesn't really matter.

A person who believes something makes it real.

The subjective world is entirely our own creation.

Beyond that I'd say just read everything you're interested in and process it on two different levels.

There is the message of the author, and then a meta analysis where it's essentially just a thought exercise. You can actually learn way more than even the author intended that way and it puts you in a mindset where you are in control of how it shapes you.

Great quote. Orwell was a commie but he was redpilled on most social issues. One of the few honest men. I have a fantastic book of all his essays in chronological order https://www.amazon.com/Essays-Everymans-Library-Contemporary-Classics/dp/0375415033 Really worth it

Anyone read this book and if so is it any good?

Size Matters: How Height Affects the Health, Happiness, and Success of Boys - and the Men They Become

I recently finished an excellent book called "Thank you for Arguing" (full-title: "Thank You for Arguing: What Aristotle, Lincoln, and Homer Simpson Can Teach Us About the Art of Persuasion").

From the book, I realized that women use high level rhetorical techniques to get what they want at a much higher rate than men.

Often times, they are full of sht, but they know how to play their cards right to get what they want by saying things like "Height doesn't matter!", "I don't like muscular men, gross!", "I wouldn't care if my boyfriend made less money than I did.". They say things like this all the time, but by and large, they don't really mean them and follow through on them irl.

Put on your [They Live*](https://imgur.com/gallery/hY3Ro) glasses and realize that women are, as they say, full of shit, and they're very good at getting away with it. This also explains this post. Women with crap-tier genetics still pass them on because they manage to influence chads into impregnating them, then passing on their short height to their sons (interestingly, short women aren't considered as attractive in the Germanic / Nordic countries as they are here in the US, and that explains why they have significantly higher average heights than us in the US).

You asked for it:

1/4 gay men in America have had over 1000 sex partners. Source: http://www.amazon.com/Homosexualities-Study-Diversity-Among-Women/dp/0671251503

43% of gay men have over 500 partners. Source: http://www.amazon.com/Homosexualities-Study-Diversity-Among-Women/dp/0671251503

10 to 15 percent of older homosexuals have more than 1000 sex partners. Source: http://www.jstor.org/stable/3813477

79% of homosexual men say over half of their sex partners are strangers. Source: http://www.amazon.com/Unequal-Opportunity-Disparities-Affecting-Bisexual/dp/0195301536


In Australia, 25% of homosexuals have had more than 100 sex partners. Source: http://takimag.com/article/the_straight_dope_on_homosexuality_elizabeth_mccaw/print


Monogamy is not a central feature of most homosexual relationships. Source: http://takimag.com/article/the_straight_dope_on_homosexuality_elizabeth_mccaw/print

Married homosexual men are 50% more likely than straight couples to divorce. Source: http://takimag.com/article/the_straight_dope_on_homosexuality_elizabeth_mccaw/print

In the Netherlands, the average homosexual in a “steady relationship” has seven to eight affairs per year. Source: http://takimag.com/article/the_straight_dope_on_homosexuality_elizabeth_mccaw/print

Over 20% of older homosexuals have had more than 500 different sex partners. Source: https://archive.li/cr4QD

The average gay man has several dozen sex partners per year. Source: https://archive.li/cr4QD

28% of homosexuals have had sex with over a thousand men. For straight men? Just 25% have had sex with more than 10 women. Source: https://archive.li/cr4QD

Most “long term relationships” between gay men last less than eight years. Source: https://archive.li/cr4QD

Among gay Canadian men in “committed relationships, only 25% were monogamous. Source: https://archive.li/cr4QD

In one study, only 9% of gay men were monogamous. Source: https://archive.li/cr4QD

75% of straight men an are faithful, compared to just 4.5% of gay men. Source: https://archive.li/cr4QD

In Berlin, 83% of gay men in “steady” relationships had had frequent affairs in the last year. Source: https://archive.li/cr4QD

What is Etology?

I read some science fiction. The good science fiction from the West is from the past, of course, since Western culture is no longer capable of producing anything good. But this recent Chinese book isn't bad: The Three-Body Problem

"The Selfish Gene" is a good book, written before Dawkins went insane. I referred to it in this post of mine:

http://www.mikraite.org/Human-Evolution-tp17.html

There are some things that work outside the scope of evolution/natural selection. I recommend everyone to read 'The Evolution of Beauty.'

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3391426/

https://www.theverge.com/2017/5/19/15659294/richard-prum-evolution-beauty-biology-darwin-interview

Those two links above are also worth reading.

Yes, https://www.amazon.in/Ranjit-Singh-Khushwant/dp/0143065432

Here's another one: https://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-female-power-masculinist-dissection/dp/9782651052

I haven't read it though. It seems like quite the meme.

Also: https://www.amazon.com/Second-Sexism-Discrimination-Against-Boys/dp/0470674512

Here


The results had a p<0.05 so they are statistically significant.



The study has a citation index of 90 so it's been peer-reviewed.









Related links:






https://www.amazon.com/Blindsight-Peter-Watts/dp/0765319640



https://thebrainbank.scienceblog.com/2015/10/10/whats-going-on-in-your-head-the-science-behind-our-inner-voice/

This one?

All of it in here https://www.amazon.com/History-God-000-Year-Judaism-Christianity/dp/0345384563

Here's the book on ritual I am reading, Ritual: Perspectives and Dimensions - https://www.amazon.com/Ritual-Perspectives-Dimensions-Revised-Catherine-Bell/dp/0199735107

>be born without consent

required reading for depressedcels

> blind and stupid.

So, successful guys tell incels again and again it's possible to get women, attractive guys talk about having a hard time with women (often because emphasis is put on their looks and this is where their confidence stems from rather than personal attributes) and most statistical evidence points to the facts looks have little to no impact on women's sexual/dating decisions yet, I'm the one that's blind and stupid? Don't think so.

> actually falling for "women are pure, they want to cuddle not fuck" meme

BAD INCEL, CUCK IQ

>Book of leftist journalist Daniel Bergner summarizes the work of a series of sexologists studies on humans & similar animals & tops it with personal anecdotes which conclude that "women want sex just as much as men do, and that sexual drive is mostly NOT sustained by emotional intimacy and safety." Bergner's research suggests that women's sexual craving makes them even less well-suited for monogamy than men.

https://www.amazon.com/What-Do-Women-Want-Adventures/dp/0061906085

>From American Psychological Association, "men significantly underestimate women's sexual desires especially in relationships"

http://psycnet.apa.org/record/2016-22171-006

> "When reporting sex, men & women disgaree on what constitutes sex… women do not consider fellatio, cunnilingus, and manual stimulation of a partner's genitals, whereas men did". Another BlackPill truth. When asking women about previous sex, multiply it by 3 and keep in mind they only count vaginal (and maybe anal)

Proof that women only have desire for Chad whereas cuck men suffer from lacking sex
> husbands want a 50% increase in sex whereas wives are satisfied

> Nearly 30% of the unfaithful husbands had multiple extramarital partners, compared to only 5% of the unfaithful wives. (sex is for chad whereas chads fuck anyone)

> People who were in a committed relationship who want to have sex but aren't having sex, consisted almost entirely of men & only 2% of women reported that issue

> "Among 20-year-olds who aren't in a committed relationship or dating for less than 2 years found no noticeable gender difference in sexual desire." To me, that says women got bored of fucking a man, needs to ride the cock carrousel.

Study at http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1207/S15327957PSPR0503_5

https://www.amazon.com/Natural-History-Rape-Biological-Coercion/dp/0262700832

Your argument was that rape is not natural in mammals with higher order brain functions. You should provide evidence to support your claim. I have provided evidence for my original claim.

> And found that even in my best shape I was still utterly unattractive to all women and repulsive to most.

If you were jacked, had muscles, were not overweight, and women STILL avoided you, that means it's your personality, not your physical appearance.

> I've been to male therapists as well - if anything, they were even worse.

Why were they worse?

Just because you had bad experiences with certain therapists, doesn't mean they're all like that. It can take a while to find one that you click with. Like I said, I had to see probably 20 different therapists before I found one that I clicked with and that actually helped me.

> Because those suggestions have already been tried. And you dismiss that fact when presented with it, because yeah, you're not here to help - you're here to dispense advice, regardless of how helpful it is.

Every person is not the same. Just because something didn't help you, doesn't mean it won't help others. You also can't say therapy didn't work for you when you haven't tried all the different kinds of therapy or seen specialist therapists. I can promise you that every single 'incel' on your sub has not tried every single suggestion out there so to say that things like DBT therapy won't help others is just complete BS. I also suggested TMS and I bet you haven't tried it and most incels haven't tried it so you can't discount things you haven't even tried. To act like there's no hope or treatment for incels is just wrong and sends the wrong message to other 'incels' out there.

> This is the loop of advice you're presenting to incels. It's neither helpful nor supportive.

Telling people they should try different things to try to get better IS helpful and supportive. Telling people that they're ugly and they'll be alone forever is NOT helpful or supportive and that's what many incels say.

> You get pissed either way.

I'm not pissed but many people do get pissed when they try to offer support and help and get told they don't know anything because they're 'normies' or get attacked.

> Incels are hostile to your kind exactly because they have extensive experience with your advice - they know your advice doesn't work and they know you turn hostile the moment your advice is rejected.

First, stop trying to separate yourself from others. Don't say "your kind," we're all people. By acting like you're different, you separate yourself even more and just get more depressed which is a vicious cycle.

Have you ever heard the saying "fake it 'til you make it"? It would apply to incels as well. Pretend like you're a normal dude that is open for love and eventually you will be.

I suggested DBT therapy and TMS, neither of which have been tried by the majority of 'incels' on here so you can't say things don't work when you haven't tried them. You also can't say things don't work when you have no idea how another person will respond to the treatment. The vast majority of people have never even heard of TMS because it's a relatively new treatment that hasn't even been around for 10 years and is just starting to be available across the US and the world. ECT may be helpful if nothing else works. Stop dismissing treatments that you've never tried.

> Basically, they know you're terrible people who pretend to want to help but instead are just here to abuse and troll. If you act like an abusive person, you're going to be treated like one.

Yeah, OK, we're terrible people for trying to help you. /s Do you realize how hypocritical you sound by judging everyone like that when you don't want to be judged yourself? I can promise you, I'm not a terrible person. I have a problem caring too much most times and that's the only reason I even came here in the first place. Making a stupid statement like saying everyone that's not an incel is a terrible person is not only wrong but it just continues to keep you separated. I also haven't been abusive to anyone on here so that's another false statement. Have you ever thought that maybe other people aren't the problem?

> Find instances of DBT benefiting incels in some way directly related to their incelhood.

How exactly would I find that when most people have no idea what an incel is? 'Incel' is not a well-known term so how would there be scientific data to show that therapy helps incels? There is plenty of data showing therapy helps people with a variety of issues, especially with depression, which is what most incels have. Maybe CBT (talk therapy) didn't work for you but it could help others and other types of therapy like DBT could even be more beneficial than CBT. I also mentioned trying TMS which helps to "rewire" the brain and you haven't tried that either so you can't discount it. ECT could be tried if nothing else has worked.

> This is a big problem with people like you.

Again, you're alienating yourself. You're also being a hypocrite. You say you want to be treated like everyone else but when you act like that and tell us we're different and we're "terrible people", you just make it worse for yourself and alienate yourself further.

> When someone tries to engage you in conversation and maybe ACTUALLY work out some solutions that might help incels

What solutions do you have? I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I actually want to know.

All I see on your sub is 'incels' being hopeless and thinking they'll be single for the rest of their lives and they start to hate women and the entire world. Many blast women as 'sluts' and act like women are less than men. Many say they want to kill or hurt 'normies.' The anger towards women and society just makes your situation worse and makes it less likely to ever find love.

> instead of doing your part in the conversation you treat it like a shouting contest - instead of arguing your points, you simply restate in more words, which really is the internet equivalent of trying to shout as loud as you can.

I'm not shouting about anything. I was trying to offer suggestions to possibly help.

> You're not going to convince or help anyone that way, so if either is your goal, you need to reconsider your approach.

I guess I was just stupid to think you wanted help. You can't help people that won't help themselves. If you wanted help and wanted to change, you would be willing to try different things and not just give up on life/love and say nothing works.

If I had thought like you did, I would have committed suicide a long time ago. I have suffered from severe depression and other mental health issues and it took me a while but I finally started to get better. I had to try different things for years and see countless doctors and finally started to get help and get better.

This is the bad attitude that I was talking about before. People don't want to be around negative people so as long as you have that negative attitude and act like you're separate from everyone else, you'll only attract other negative people. No one wants a friend that's so depressed all the time and thinks they can't change. Get some help so you can change your attitude and you'll start attracting positive people.

EDIT: I found this page from a book called 'The Subtle Art Of Not Giving A F*ck: A Counterintuitive Approach to Living a Good Life' by Mark Manson and I think it may help you and other 'incels' and just about anyone who is depressed or anxious. You (and every other incel) should read the book. You can download it and read for free online or in .PDF, .epub, or .mobi format here or you can find it on Amazon here. You should also check out the author, Mark Manson's website.

COPE, french women fucked nazis (and married them) and then after they lost they fucked americans (and also married them).

Yeah some were raped but a lot of them wanted to have sex and marry victorious chads.


EDIT:
WW2:
Italy
During the campaign of 1943-1945, there were more than 10,000 marriages between Italian women and American soldiers

French - can't find source how many there are two books about American-French marriage

https://www.amazon.com/French-War-Brides-Mademoiselle-American/dp/0984004335/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1507726255&sr=8-2&keywords=hilary+kaiser

https://www.amazon.com/WWII-Voices-American-French-Married/dp/1475285884/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1507726255&sr=8-1&keywords=hilary+kaiser

Korean War
6,423 Korean women married U.S. military personnel as war brides during and immediately after the Korean War.

Vietnam War
8,040 Vietnamese women came to the United States as war brides between 1964 and 1975.[24]