(Part 3) Top products from r/Breadit

Well it really depends on what sort of milling apparatus you have. My in laws sent me a very old hand mill a long time ago, and it took me roughly 30 minutes to mill a cup of flour (had to run it through three times to gradually get a finer flour). That was not worth it.

It was enough to pique my interest though and last year I bought a WonderMill and I absolutely love it. It was pretty pricey but I have certainly used it enough where I feel it was worth it. It takes about 2-3 minutes to mill 5 pounds of grain. Depending on what I'm making I might sift out some of the bran, but otherwise I use it as is. I have not read up as extensively on the timeline for using the flour. I've seen that you should typically use it right away or let it age for a few weeks. Personally I've done both and never had any significant issues.

Similar to your interest, I've been able to use it to make bread with locally grown grains. It also makes it much easier to make bread with stranger types of flour, since you can mill almost any dry, non oily, grain. I've milled wheat, rye berries, quinoa, barley, kamut, buckwheat, and a few other things. My wife has a friend who makes beer and tomorrow I'm picking up some spent grain from him that I'll be able to mill. Buying those grains isn't cheap, but I can usually get them in bulk so I buy exactly what need. Otherwise I'd have to buy an expensive bag of specialty flour that I might not need much from.

If you're thinking of getting a mill there are a lot of different options out there as I discovered. The Fresh Loaf had many good discussion threads which where helpful in addition to amazon reviews and youtube demonstrations.

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You could make a sourdough starter. It'll take about 1-2 weeks so hopefully if you start now it'll be ready once you need it. You can follow these directions: https://www.theperfectloaf.com/7-easy-steps-making-incredible-sourdough-starter-scratch/ That starter has a higher percentage of water than FWSY's, but you can just switch to the feeding method in the book once the starter becomes active.

You could also make sure you have all the supplies necessary. At a minimum you'll want:

• kitchen scale: A recipe weighs about 1800g, plus the mixing bowl, so make sure the scale goes that high. https://www.amazon.com/OXO-Stainless-Pull-Out-Display-11-Pound/dp/B000WJMTNA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1482510750&sr=8-1&keywords=oxo+scale
  
• dutch oven: The book recommends 4 qts. I've had success with 3.2 qt combo cookers. Two dutch ovens would be even better as all the recipes are for 2 loaves. https://www.amazon.com/Lodge-LCC3-Cooker-Pre-Seasoned-3-2-Quart/dp/B0009JKG9M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1482510707&sr=8-1&keywords=combo+cooker
  
• thermometer: Ken Forkish is very particular about the temperatures in his recipes. https://www.amazon.com/Lavatools-PT12-Javelin-Thermometer-Chipotle/dp/B00GRFHXVQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1482510838&sr=8-2&keywords=pen+thermometer
  
  Nice to haves:
  
  
• Banneton proofing baskets: You need something to put your dough in as it rises. In a pinch, a mixing bowl will work. Banneton baskets are purpose made for this. I use an 8". The ones I've bought are no longer sold on amazon, but I suspect any 8" to 9" round basket will do. Heres one: https://www.amazon.com/Forsun-Banneton-Brotform-Proofing-Rising/dp/B01CNV40D6/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1482511260&sr=8-4&keywords=banneton+proofing+basket
  
• Big tubs for mixing: Most mixing bowls are frustratingly shallow for 1800g recipes. He recommends these in the book. They're pricey, but they do work well: https://www.amazon.com/Camwear-Polycarbonate-Round-Storage-container/dp/B000KIE73I/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1482511122&sr=8-5&keywords=12+qt+cambro https://www.amazon.com/Cambro-RFSCWC12135-Lid-Round-Container/dp/B0001MRULO/ref=pd_bxgy_79_img_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=NNK0EN78A5YB6WWHQDRK
  
  Note that he has a section in the book on equipment, so you could wait to read that before spending money, but all the items linked above have worked well for me.

The main thing I use most of the time are just a scale (in grams is best, but it's more about ratios than anything), a dough scraper (something like this, but any flat piece to manipulate the dough will work. It's also very useful for cleaning where you were shaping the bread.). For letting the dough do it's final rise, I cover a flour sack towel (other fabric will work, but you want it smooth enough so the dough doesn't get fuzz in it, but coarse enough for the flour to 'catch' on it) in flour (a mix of wheat and fine rice flour is best, but cornmeal and rice or just lots of wheat flour will work) and line a colander with it. And razors for cutting the dough without it sticking. (putting something like these on a wooden coffee stirrer stick works well, but any razors or sharp blades should be fine.)

Other stuff is nice to have, but not necessary, IMO.

Agree with the earlier comment of kneading for longer. I've found that I need to knead for anything between 5-15 min if doing it by hand.

While kneading, you're "stretching" out the gluten and it is normal for the dough to "rip" as you put it depending on the flour type. But the fact that your knead is getting tighter (as you mention) indicates that you're doing the right thing as you're on your way to build up an elastic gluten structure. However with low-to-medium gluten content flour (such as rye and spelt) you won't get the same silky-thin elasticity as you get with white flour.

This image shows on the left a wholemeal dough and, on right, rye dough. Maybe it can give you an idea of how different the dough can stretch when using different flour types (spelt should be somewhere between these two).

I've found that using 100% spelt/rye yields a rather heavy brick-like bread and personally I find that mixing 50/50 or 75/25 with (very) strong white flour yields bread and consistency that I like better myself :)

Regarding kneading techniques, I've found it helpful to knead in a push-away-from-you, then bring it back and turn 90 degrees and repeat. Something similar to this if it makes sense.

These images are both from the River Cottage Handbook No. 3: Bread. Pretty good book to get you started and teaches you a few basic techniques (just don't trust their Brioche recipe, it is the devil!)

Tip: You can over-knead, at a certain point the gluten structure collapses and the dough goes from firm to soggy/sticky again. You can't recover from this and the batch needs to be binned. This however is unlikely to happen when you hand knead (as your wrists will usually give up before).

Take a look at the following books which your local library may possibly have. All deal with whole grain breads and breads made using non-standard flours.

Tartine Book No.3: It's the Tartine round loaf in a million whole grain variations, while also including some interesting pan loaves.

Peter Reinhart's Whole Grain Breads: Recipes for pretty much every type of whole grain bread. Uses a lot of specialized ingredients, and complex multi-stage recipes, and contains a ton of information.

Peter Reinhart's Bread Revolution: Not familiar with this book but it looks neat, probably advanced if you're just learning about using alternative grains to white flour but still interesting.

Home Baked: Nordic Recipes and Techniques for Organic Bread and Pastry: This is a personal favorite book, and the vast majority of the recipes use whole grains. Everything I've made out of this has been excellent, although some recipes are lacking in how-to type details that might not be obvious to a novice baker.

You can buy a cast iron Dutch oven for $20 on Amazon. This is a great investment because it lets you make really good, really simple no knead breads.

Literally just miss together four ingredients and let things sit. Then fold the dough, let it sit some more. Bake it and you've got amazing bread. These no knead recipes are the best ROI for your baking time, effort, and dollar.

One great tip I picked up is to put the bread in the Dutch oven on parchment paper so there's no clean up!

Amazon is your best friend for pretty much all those items. The tub that is highly recommend would probably be a cambro. Here's a 12 quart that's perfect for doing the FWSY recipes:


Camwear Polycarbonate Round Food Storage container, 12 Quart https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000KIE73I/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awd_ja1BwbC27NDE2

1. Oh my god - I DO have that book! I didn't even think of using it! Also, I grind it on a "bread" setting which is om between
   pastry" and
   coarse" - it's still pretty fine (can barely distinguish the bran with my fingers).
   
   
2. I bought a small one (I live in an apartment in a big city) and it's awesome. This is the one I have, it's only about $220 on amazon.
   
   
3. Thank you for your help!

I used a plain razor blade for my first couple dozen loaves. Then I got this lame and I'm very glad to have it. I think the curve it puts in the blade helps a lot to make a clean slice. For me, totally worth it.

I also switched from using a cast iron dutch oven to the cast iron combo cooker and it makes getting the dough from basket to iron much easier, as well as making scoring much much easier, since you have access to the loaf from the sides.

Get yourself a book as /u/ETABLERT said. The River Cottage Handbook on bread its a good one.

Get a container, some flour from your preferred supplier, a big container and get going! Do some reading, there are plenty of on-line sources, plenty of good books out there.

Starting your own sour dough is as easy as mixing flour and water together.

That said, if you did want to buy a start then Bakerybits.co.uk sell one. I have used them several times, and found them to be really good. The site in general that is, not the starter.

My wife gave me the book, Beard on Bread. It is the Basic White Free-Form Loaf. You can also find the recipe here that someone else posted.

Didn't deviate much, other than using a hair more water in the sponge to make sure it was a very wet dough. As a result I probably used a bit more flour than it calls for when making the dough. I stopped measuring after 2 cups and probably kneaded in a bit more than a half cup.

It rose like crazy. The first rise is supposed to take 1.5-2 hours, pretty sure mine was done in an hour, tops. Which I was thrilled to see, since usually I never seem to even get it to rise to double bulk.

Good scraper: http://www.amazon.com/Winware-Stainless-Steel-Scraper-Handle/dp/B0017HUR9E/ref=sr_1_4?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1374002969&sr=1-4&keywords=Bench+scraper
It's half the price of others, we use these in the pizza restaurants. Don't worry about running it through the dishwasher. It will be good for years and years to come. And it's only $4

Good bowl scraper: http://www.amazon.com/Ateco-1303-Bowl-Scraper/dp/B000KEUKO2/ref=sr_1_7?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1374003125&sr=1-7&keywords=Bench+scraper
It's a bit expensive to me for a small piece of plastic, but it is still only $3. Does the job, it's cheap, will last long time. I would buy two just on case.

Now, treating wood cutting board? Personally, I don't. I wouldn't know the first thing about what oil to put on mine. My grandma didn't, her mom didn't. You get the idea I'm heading for.

Edit: purpose of straight edge scraper is to help portion the dough, scrape the flat work surface of debri. Straight edge does not score the dough and is not intended to scrape out bowls.

Utopia Kitchen Pre Seasoned Cast Iron Dutch Oven with Dual Handle and Cover Casserole Dish, 5 Quart

At $26 you can buy two whole barely exceeding your budget and bake two loaves at once. I've been very pleased with my cheap Utopia Kitchen dutch oven. I bought a 7 qt. size and wish I had gone with the 5 qt. size so I could get two in my oven at once.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00X6ZBE42/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fOXQAb5KGPWC6

you could you any disposible razor like this:

One style


second style

trust me. Once you use one of these you'll go "ok why didnt I use this before, it's that easy"


You can literally buy them at any ace hardware, drug store, supermarket or pharmacy.

This is my list:

• kitchen aid mixer ($350)
  
  
• Dutch Oven ($50)
  
  
• good digital scale ($20)
  
  
• good thermometer for the kitchen ($10-20)
  
  
• Mixing Bowl set ($20)
  
  
• Bakers Couche ($15)
  
  
• Banneton ($10) (x2)
  
  
• Commercial Food Storage ($5-10) (x4 because I use these a ton)
  
  
• Bench Scrapper ($5)
  
  
• Measuring Cup (2 cup size)
  
  
• Measuring Spoons
  
  
• Pizza Steel Or Stone ($40-80)
  
  
• Loaf Pan
  
  
  Total = $620 (no tax)
  
  
  add in an awesome workbench table for 300 and you are good to go.

I do. Amazon has the best prices. I see these selling on some of the baking sites for a whole bunch more... and I see the measurements is 20 x 13.5 not 16... my bad

It's very possible. My go-to dead-simple sandwich loaf, for example, is 100% sprouted whole wheat. I baked a loaf this morning and I assure you it's delicious :)

Loaves like the one here are harder with 100% whole, but very possible. Here's a book on the subject.

It's barley malt syrup, here's the Amazon link. I generally use it for boiling bagels, but put some in bread to try the flavor. Diastatic powder malt is actually better for baking bread as a dough enhancer. I use this too occasionally.

Bench Scrapers! Or, Bowl Scrapers. Personally, I have one of each. Also, super hot and soapy water.

PART 2:

Prep:

Around the 3 hour mark, you need to start prepping the kitchen for the tasks of cutting, shaping, rising, boiling, cooling, topping, and baking. You need:

• to make some space for laying out the dough. You will be cutting and shaping the dough into the round bagel shape in a little while, and you need some space to do this.
  
  
• a baking pan. and either lay down a bit of semolina flour, cornmeal, oil, PAM, or parchment paper to help prevent sticking. I prefer parchment--you can reuse it 1 to 2 times if you're careful, and cleanup is just a matter of pulling out the paper.
  
  
• to preheat your oven to 245 C, or 475 Fahrenheit. You want the time for heat to soak into the walls of the oven reaaallly well.
  
  
• (If you are not boiling with lye, disregard my shenanigans about the type of metal used) Grab a stainless steel pot, one which can hold 1.5 to 2 quarts of water with a few inches to spare. I said stainless steel! More on this in the safety details later.
  
  
• an implement for fishing and straining the bagels out of the boiling lye solution. Alternatively, you could use two forks, two spoons, or even chopsticks.
  
  
• a large bowl or container and fill it halfway with water. You will be adding lots of ice to it later to halt the cooking process after boiling the bagels. This will also wash off the NaOH, making them easier and safer to handle.
  
  
• a long bladed knife, or a dough blade.
  
  
• If you plan to use toppings, get a shallow dish with raised sides and dump them in. You'll probably need to dump in much more than you think. A LOT will stick to the bagels.
  
  
• a stopwatch or nearby analogue clock for timing the boiling of each bagel.
  
  
• plenty of plastic film for covering the dough during final proving.
  
  
• Lastly, rubber or latex gloves, preferably marked HDPE or LDPE. These are what I use.
  
• and protective eyewear
  
  

  ---

I have this Oxo one and I'd say it works pretty well for me.

I wrote down the recipe by hand after checking it out from the library, so I can't verify what advise she gives, sorry. Personally, I use a baking stone preheated to 550 (hot as my oven gets, electric oven) for about an hour. I also put in a small stainless steel All-clad frying pan while preheating the stone.

After I put the proofed loaves on the stone, I immediately pour in a cup of boiling water into the pan to generate huge amounts of steam.

This book gave me a great start

https://www.amazon.com/Beard-Bread-James/dp/0679755047/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1466123896&sr=8-1&keywords=Beard+on+bread

I use this.
It works great. Brings a lot more thermal mass to the oven.

4 Quart non-enameled

4 Quart Enameled

I know they're not terribly high-end, but I like Lodge.

This one from Emile Henry is the one he uses in his Youtube videos. I bought it and it is amazing.

One of those linens for baguettes if you bake those. And maybe a nice pizza stone for other types of bread?

Stock up on different kinds of flour too! Or maybe even a grain mill if you want to make your own flour!

Save the $16 shipping cost at Amazon.

If you're confident in yourself, use lye. You can see there difference in post from a while back.

It comes from proofing the dough in a banneton, you put flour in the banneton to stop the dough sticking and some of it comes off when the dough is turned out, leaving a nice pattern.

It's more common with higher hydrations as if you tried to proof the dough without any support, it would flatten out considerably.

Something like this, they come in different sizes: Round banneton

Here you go. It's from Ginsberg's book. Highly recommend.

Trying to branch away from French bread and explore other flavors from Europe. Rye is rather interesting to work with, and I think I overkneaded it a bit.

The bread is a mixture of levain and standard yeast. Recipe from The Rye Baker by Stanley Ginsberg

Agreed. If you must only own one, go for Bread Baker's Apprentice. If you want an intro to whole-grain baking (the reason I started making my own bread a few years ago), go for Reinhart's other book Whole Grain Breads.

I bought the Bread Revolution Book and did the basic loaf which turned out fabulous. A bit on the dense side, but that's to be expected.

You can get cheap razor blades at the pharmacy like this. Use a popsicle stick or something to hold the blade and it'll cut fantastically.

https://www.amazon.com/Masterproofing-8-inch-Round-Banneton-Basket/dp/B005TUCDM4/ref=pd_bxgy_79_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=88XMA926MXQRN319H7EG

I have one of those, and it's been great. I dust it with rice flour before proofing (I think it releases better) and just dust it out after. No complaints.

I use the Pizzacraft 20 x 13.5 Rectangular ThermaBond Baking/Pizza Stone.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001EDBEZM/
I've had it for 5 yrs, and I'm maybe halfway through it.

I use this one. Old Stone Oven 4467 14-Inch by 16-Inch Baking Stone https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000E1FDA/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_D.Idub0PX1M67

proof in one of these

It's an enamel​ed Lodge, 4.5 quart
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004QM8SK2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_DcGqzbHM8PWQ5

This is the one I use!

https://www.amazon.com/Mure-Peyrot-Adour-Professional-Protective/dp/B00G9FEUR4/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1548992211&sr=8-8&keywords=bread+lame

I got mine on Amazon. It's actually cheaper now than when I bought it. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001EDBEZM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Definitely makes a big difference using lye vs baking soda. It's really not that big a deal to work with, just use common sense. If you do get a little bit on you, put some vinegar on it right away to neutralize it.

I've been adding 2tbsp lye to 32 ounces of water (never water to lye!), then dropping pretzels into boiling water for a few seconds. Sorry for crappy pic: https://i.imgur.com/8SBXWIa.jpg

You just have to break the "skin" basically. Doesn't really matter too much, but generally around 1/8-1/4" probably. You can get a tool just for this, they're called lames (lah-MAY).
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00G9FEUR4/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1501913345&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=lame+mure

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000PRP288/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Seems sold out :(

My first stone from Bed, Bath & Beyond lasted for about 4 years. Only broke because I dropped it. Have had this [Pizzacraft] (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005IF2YOW/) since, without issues. My stones never leave the oven, which gets cranked up to 500 a couple times a week.

Unless your stone had a flaw in it, from previous handling/dropping, or a manufacturing defect, the only reason it should be cracking is if you heat it up while it's wet. Remember that stone is porous. Just because it isn't wet to the touch, doesn't mean there isn't moisture inside it. So, even if you've wiped it with a damp cloth when it was cold, do not heat it up without first allowing it to thoroughly dry first.

I have two more questions. Sorry for being a total newbie.

First, the entire concept of disturbing bread in between proofing and baking sounds crazy to me. In every recipe I've made, I'd let the bread proof on an aluminum pan and then carefully place it in the oven to bake. I thought that if the CO2 built up during the proof gets released, you'd get a flat bread. Is proofing there to build up the flavor or to shape the bread? What happens when the dough falls 6 inches? Do you get decent bread from it?

Also, I've read a bit about proofing directly in a cold dutch oven and adding 10 minutes to the baking time. I don't know if this will work well, but it does overcome the problem of placing bread in a ridiculously hot oven.

Right now, I'm leaning toward this guy:
http://www.amazon.com/Lodge-EC4D43-Enameled-Island-4-5-Quart/dp/B004QM8SK2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1411910565&sr=8-2&keywords=enameled+cast+iron+dutch+oven

Although I could save some money with this and line it with aluminum foil, as you suggested.
http://www.amazon.com/Lodge-Pro-Logic-P10D3-Dutch-4-Quart/dp/B0001DJVGK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1411912940&sr=8-1&keywords=lodge+cast+iron+4+quart