(Part 3) Top products from r/MGTOW

>So I dropped out and learned a trade. Perhaps I am still not stimulated intellectually, but I am stimulated mentally by the pride I take in doing things with my own hands and watching them work and serve a purpose and the challenge inherent to doing something I am not used to doing (working manually). This, I think, is the real reason women are overrepresented in college : men are not interested anymore because they aren't challenged anymore. It's the same gold star for participation, sit down, shut up and regurgitate mentality that has been ruining education for decades and that women excel in because it furnishes them with attention for not doing anything of note.

Yup... nothing I can really add to that. Other than an upvote.

---

Aw hell... I never could post a short comment like that in response. (LOL)

--
"Intellectual stimulation" basically just isn't going to happen in most of modern (post modern) academia -- if it ever even really WAS that, it ain't no more -- now it's just become an second iteration of (public/compulsory) high school, the main goal (other than indenturing people into debt via a loan & tuition extraction machine) now seems to be to create an extended adolescence, and keep young people OUT of the workforce for as many years as possible.

If you're actually really intelligent (i.e. 2+ SD's above average) then you pretty much HAVE to be autodidactic -- seek your stimulation (and satisfaction) via independent reading/studying (in whatever the fuck interests you at any given time); and then engaging in various hobbies -- IMO you were entirely right to seek out manual "hands-on" trade work; there's something about actually BUILDING/CREATING (or even "fixing") complicated or "custom" things with both your hands AND your mind that banal "academic" crap just cannot achieve.

---
By any chance have you ever read any of Matthew Crawford's books? I just finished his Shop Class as Soulcraft: An Inquiry into the Value of Work piece... and it pretty much talks about and extends that very point; you might find that to be of interest.

Cheers!

>Whether you have children or not, I'd appreciate your thoughts on this matter:

Well, since you asked...

>My concern comes towards my daughter. I'm teaching her independence above all things, and want to steer her away from being the type of woman that is so prevalent in today's world. She understands a lot of it, but at her core, she's female, and there's the biological princess programming to deal with.

I think the above is REALLY misguided.

1. First of all, you're basically teaching her THE CORE of Feminist LIES: that women CAN be (and by implication will be happy being) "independent" -- because from what I have seen, it really isn't possible, there is NO SUCH THING as an "independent" woman -- nor am I just talking about the poetical/philosophical abstract that "No man is an island Entire of itself Every man is a piece of the continent..." bit; I mean that I have yet to encounter ANY woman that is truly "independent" in anything even remotely like the same fashion that a man can be.
   
   
2. Secondly, I think you're mistaken about the "type of women so prevalent in today's world" -- because they were in fact taught pretty much EXACTLY that "independent woman" bullshit. I have SEEN the results of men (daddies) who taught their daughters to be "independent" woman -- and the result is ALWAYS the same: they go through MEN faster than they go through shoes; they invariably end up with multiple children from multiple fathers, and then they proceed to "fuck up" those kids in a dozen different ways that are difficult to comprehend and which probably OUGHT to be considered "child abuse" and punishable as a crimes (because the NEXT generation gets even worse).
   
   --
   
   Let me repeat that and make it abundantly clear so that there is no mistaking what I am saying:
   
   

• IMO teaching her to be "independent" is quite frankly is THE MOST DIRECT PATH to turning her into the epitome of an "Alpha widow, Cock-Carousel riding, STD-laden, gold-digging, indentured and DEPENDENT consumer whore..."
  
  And worse, probably the kind that will not only become but will CHOOSE to become a "single mother" ... a woman who firmly believes she is a "fish" that doesn't NEED a "bicycle".
  
  Yet all the while she will be parasitically dependent upon the government as her "sugar daddy" in one way or another: either as the "affirmative action" bully that helps her obtain some cushy position, promotion or pay that she hasn't earned, and/or sucking down government handouts, and/or using the court system to "shake down" and extort money from her {future} ex husband(s) and/or "baby daddies").
  
  --
  
  Because you may THINK that you are teaching her to be "independent" of all of that, but the reality is that THAT language and terminology and worldview has been entirely coopted by Feminists and anything & everything YOU say along those lines will simply end up "rhyming" with that and getting distorted by it.
  
  ---
  
  So what SHOULD you be teaching her?
  --
  
  Well, why not try being HONEST for starters. Rather than trying to DENY or counteract the "female biology" why not help her UNDERSTAND IT, and that it is (or can be) both a BENEFICIAL thing, OR it can become a wholly negative and MALICIOUS thing.
  
  --
  
  Instead of filling her head with LIES about how she can/should be "independent" of men...
  
  
• Why not teach her that GOOD relationships and PRODUCTIVE family environments are ones where BOTH spouses seek to complement and provide BENEFITS to each other; and moreover where they do not attempt to "control" each other by "deprivation". And that, rather than relying entirely on the fact that she has a "magical vagina" and rather than trying to use it as a tool to trick or entrap men that she comprehend it is a means by which she can either make the world (not the least of which will be her own future) into either a better place with happy, protected, well provided for children... OR if she abuses it, can turn her own life (and that of many around her) into a proverbial "living hell" a dysfunctional chaotic catastrophe that will reverberate down several generations.
  
  Or teach her that -- instead of looking for ways to USE the government and the world of men via her "pussy pass" -- that she should be looking to provide a man with SOME OTHER benefits than just a wet/lubed "hole", or even that said hole can produce "spawn".
  
  Why not teach her LOYALTY? Why not teach her SELF-DISCIPLINE? And that there is VALUE in deferring/delaying the gratification of one's desires; that in life we often derive as much or MORE enjoyment from the anticipation of something (especially if/when the goal is a laudable "peaceful/productive" one rather than some hedonistic "thrill", and that when the anticipation builds in a healthy fashion over time, it actually provides REPEATED pleasure enjoyment even prior to attaining it) -- again we often derive MORE enjoyment from that, than we do from the impulsive attempts to "have it all NOW", which never truly satiates, never really fills the "hunger"... but instead leads to a life of "gluttony" and ever pursuing some further "high" in the VAIN hope that THE NEXT LEVEL will somehow be satisfying.
  
  Why not teach her that there can be JOY in the DOING, rather than just the "having" or "displaying".
  
  That there is both internal pleasure and pride in simple things, things done with MIND and HAND working together, and together WITH someone else, to help "build" something of actual value... especially in doing that WELL -- even in things that others may see as "boring drudgery work" -- that craftsmanship and care in and for what one does will be EMINENTLY more fulfilling than chasing after one more trendy "sparkly" bauble after another (and another, and another) that is after all just bashed out en masse by machinery and sold to suckers in a manner to enslave them.
  
  --
  
  Now NONE of that means that you cannot or should not teach her (or your son) a whole WIDE RANGE of "skills" -- there is no reason to avoid, and indeed every reason TO teach a daughter (as well as a son) how to "change a tire", how to pound a nail, drill a hole, saw a board... or indeed how to plunge a toilet, or fix a leaky pipe or faucet (and in so doing educate them about the world, so that they understand at least the FUNDAMENTALS underlying the technology that is around them and which their lives will* be intertwined with, whether they understand it or not). Or moreover make certain that you DO teach her about the basics of finance -- the importance of keeping track of what you spend, of being in CONTROL of that spending, of budgeting it and sticking TO that budget (while allowing SOME room for "impulsiveness" and spontaneity and even "opportunity" and serendipity) and NOT falling for the tricks/traps of other people who will seek to endebt & indenture them for things that are actually of little value (the status crap that is bought in order to try to "impress" others, but which seldom actually does).
  
  --
  
  THAT kind of instruction is the path to TRUE INDEPENDENCE.
  
  --
  
  And your children are not going to get that kind of instruction ANYWHERE ELSE -- not these days -- the schools are not going to teach them ANY of that (they're more concerned with creating "politically correct" little test-passing drones -- arrogant, ignorant, entitled, easily-triggered, little credit-card-using consumer "serfs" -- proverbial "cannon fodder" to buy up the crap spit out by the government and the multi-national conglomerations).
  
  ---
  
  For all of the statements that we discuss here -- the AWALT, etc -- nevertheless there ARE still (a tiny number of) "good" women, and "good" men... and there ARE even still a few who end up FINDING EACH OTHER and building a successful long term life together.
  
  The "truths" that are discussed here are mostly about men who HAVEN'T FOUND a mate like that relatively early in life -- once you're in your 20's (much less 30's or beyond), the women that are "left" are quite frankly too corrupted by (and themselves then corrupting of) the worst aspects of the modern world...
  
  That doesn't mean it isn't POSSIBLE for a man to teach his daughter how to BE the kind of woman that CAN obtain a decent guy -- or to teach them how to identify that kind of guy.
  
  --
  
  I'm generally the LAST person to recommend some "sappy" romantic style story... but I would HIGHLY recommend obtaining (and reading, and then READING TO or WITH your daughter, assuming she is still young enough, else handing it to her for HER to read) a little book called "Flipped" -- which does (IMHO) a rather amazing job of describing the many types of "vapid" people (both boys and girls, adult men and women), as well as how to perhaps identify those who AREN'T so "vapid", and how to become one of those yourself.
  
  BTW that story was recently made into film as well -- and the film isn't necessarily BAD (in fact by itself it's actually rather good) -- but the content of the book, and the manner in which it is told (as if it were "journal/diary" entries of both the boy AND the girl in the story) is infinitely better.

Seems to be fake - the profile ID doesn't come up, nor does the name. There's no proof of this anywhere else, is there?

Even if so - who cares? This is the reason this sub gets a bad reputation, because of garbage posts like this.

I mainly lurk here (and get criticized for subscribing, which I find hilarious) but felt compelled enough to comment on this, considering I see it so often.

When you want to claim you're a man going his own way, and that you want nothing to do with women, you only show just how much you still care about them by harping on the bullshit they do all the time. It's a circle-jerk, and anyone who doesn't see that is deluded in the fog of pack mentality.

Take a step back and think for a moment, because this isn't meant to be an attack on the user who posted the thread, or any individual. It's about the general atmosphere of this subreddit, this community, this brotherhood, whatever the fuck we decide to label ourselves as (except a fucking movement, christ).

Don't give them the cerebral real estate by dwelling on how they can be, on their nature; it only weighs you down. The point of being "MGTOW" at its core is doing your own thing. Turn this sub into a discussion about interesting things that you do with your time, see who has the same hobbies as you, motivate one another in your endeavors, in your pursuits which have a positive impact on your wellbeing.

In other words - take care of yourselves. Focus on the good things. Positive psychology is a thing. For anyone who is unfamiliar with the term and wants something good to read in the layman tongue (popscience books), check out:

Learned Optimism

Other books that I believe could help encourage or inspire people in this thread are:

Mindfulness In Plain English

Flow

The Brain That Changes Itself

Eat Pray Love was an autobiographical post-divorce book by Elizabeth Gilbert who was already a successful author. It became a movie that was more successful outside the US.

To describe the woman:

She met her first husband while working at the Coyote Ugly Bar (yes, that bit of writing was her first big success.) "Gilbert has said that one of the prime reasons for their break-up was her unwillingness to settle down and have children."

She has written of her personal behavior often, for example: "Seduction was never a casual sport for me; it was more like a heist, adrenalizing and urgent. I would plan the heist for months, scouting out the target, looking for unguarded entries. Then I would break into his deepest vault, steal all his emotional currency and spend it on myself."

To describe her 1st husband, he stopped trying to publish about their marriage because,"Hyperion pushed him to make the book more racy."

She wrote a follow up book, Committed, about making a mercenary decision (marrying her second husband so he could still enter the US.)

The second husband's ex wrote a book Committed Undone that wasn't complimentary.

Cooper divorced her second husband, had a civil ceremony with a dying man after that.

On the face of it, she sounds like someone with an
"interesting" life that as a man I would stay far far away from. In the future, will she mine the other side of the street for writing fodder?

> I am against single women raising kids, as much as against single men raising kids.

You shouldn't be, two reasons. First, you need to understand that single mothers are not responsible for how their children turn out; well, yes and no:

>Yes and no.

>Yes, because most of the time, the kind of woman who allows herself to bring her children into the world, with all its harshness, after failing to find a stable, dedicated and intelligent father is impulsive, irresponsible, high time preference and at the lower end of the IQ scores.

>No, because there is a genetic component to these characteristics. The children of single mothers exhibit many of those characteristics because their mothers have "bad" genes, and their fathers are "bad boys" who also have "bad" genes. This is the greatest source of their dysfunction, far more than any environmental cue. This is what the vast scientific literature says (especially Twin studies), each time outcomes are controlled for heredity.

>If you want a scholarly look on the subject, I would recommend Steven Pinker of Harvard.

If that book is too nerdy for you, here is one written by a George Mason University Economist. He also looked at studies published in the past hundred years or so and the science is pretty much unanimous: genes have far more influence on how a kid turns out than any possible influence from his parents (which approaches zero as one enters into adulthood).

This is where surrogacy beats traditional marriage, hands down. You get to choose your surrogate mother as you wish, without needing to settle for an ugly, lazy, moron of a mother just because she was the only one who would have you. It is far easier to give your kids great genes.

> I like the good old, perfectly normal Little House on the Prairie like children upbringing. I cannot imagine only being raised by my mom or by my dad.

That would be nice. But you are now you not only take the chance of giving your kids shitty genes but, the wife can decide to divorce rape you anytime while taking your kids with her. As long as the state gives those powers to women, we will have to do without, however nice and natural it may be. You can't have everything in life, sacrifices must be made. In this case, unless you want a 50% chance of losing your kids, we have to go at it single.

>I cannot imagine only being raised by my mom or by my dad.

I can see why. But in the real world, plenty of men are doing it already. And what's more, they do it better than women. Single fathers are better than single mothers when it comes to the two things which have been scientifically proven to affect children long term: providing and abuse.

I think that, in certain circumstances, women have an incentive to build up the ego of their sexual partners.

For example, when the success or failure of the man's ego can make the difference between a stable future and utter destitution for the woman and the woman's family, the woman will quite happily do as Adrian did in Rocky III.

Branch swinging, after all, takes effort. She'll do it if she must, but once she gets used to sitting on a branch for a long time, the thought of getting into the gym, putting on the makeup, buying new clothes and getting back on the cock carousel becomes less appealing and less of an option.

This is a fact of The Wall that women who are smart understand, though it seems that fewer of them really understand it. They have no reason to understand these days.

Today, as Barbarossa said, "you will find no solace in the bosom of a woman, I assure you." In the vast majority of cases, there's simply no reason for her to do so today. Even the churches, as Dalrock explains, have been telling women that it is better to throw away your marriages than to sacrifice one iota of self-gratification in an attempt to save them. We live at a time when women are encouraged to drop whatever dead weight is interfering with her self-empowerment, and there is little self-empowerment that can be gained in fixing up a broken man's ego. Bestselling books are devoted to showing the joy that can be had when a woman just "upgrades" her man, instead of wasting time fixing the man that she's got.

There was a time when women invested themselves in men. Until recently, there weren't any human rights laws that protected women in a time of war. Labor to grow food or build on an industrial scale was, up until very recently, both physically and psychologically toilsome; it wasn't a place a woman wanted to be unless it was absolutely necessary for her to be there. Women invested in men because men spelled the difference between societal health and societal collapse. And so, they were more than happy to fix them up when they needed fixing, instead of abandoning them.

Law and norms reflected this, and so it highly stigmatized branch swinging; the woman who jettisoned the men in her life instead of building them up not only put the men at risk, it put the whole society at risk. While fantasies of branch swinging and hypergamy can be indulged in through the Harlequin romance section of the drug store, such fantasies were only sparingly acted upon. The same could be said of men who viewed porn, it was a resting fantasy that was not acted upon with much frequency. The social stigma of those men who cheated on their wives or made women unmarriagable via illegitimate children or STDs was still strong. But both of those rules are part of what we might call "the old set of books" that are long past their validity.

There were no therapists in the old days; the closest thing to that was a strictly formal confessional that was more austere than human. And so, men had no choice but to express their fears and doubts to the women in their lives. Conversely, women were all to grateful to comply, even earning the distinction as natural "communicators" or "nurturers", because they knew that their very utility lay in their ability to "fix" the ones closest to them, so they could function well.

Today, however, no woman really has to develop these skills, and so women are more than happy to put the entire burden on men to not only take care of her emotional needs, but his as well.

Men, like most 'things' these days, are viewed as "non serviceable" with a mindset of "planned obsolescence" built into relationships. If the man breaks? Throw him out and upgrade to a better one. If the man has a lot of wear and tear from the emotional abuse it was put through? Throw him out and get a fresh one, preferably with low miles. Reaching an epiphany about your marriage is akin to reaching an epiphany about your car, "I got that car when I was twenty one and fresh out of college. But my clients won't take me seriously unless I am driving a Mercedes." Out goes the man, and in comes the Mercedes. This is the essence of the situation today, and why hypergamy is much more apparent today.

A lot of people, tradcons and feminists mostly, criticize TRP, game, and PUA techniques because they dehumanize the female, turning her into a disposable commodity to be evaluated, consumed, and discarded as soon as she lived out her usefulness. Fair enough, but if this is the case, the transformation of the male into a commodity to be evaluated, consumed and discarded existed long before that, and men are merely adapting to the new reality, the "new set of books" that demonstrate that, today, only the desperate and needy have any reason to "fix" their partners psychologically or emotionally. Just toss them out and get a new one.

Re TA, here's a good starter (well more than actually)

https://www.amazon.com/Games-People-Play-Transactional-Analysis/dp/0345410033/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1500229632&sr=8-1&keywords=games+people+play

Who said im anti mgtow? Youre the one projecting here. Somehow you think mgtow is about womenhating and jew hating. No we call that nazi.

Imo its about loving yourself, not hating others. Love is indeed more powerful than hate. I dont even hate you, I love you but I think youre a lost soul who need professional help.

Btw read this book
https://www.amazon.com/Utopia-Realists-Build-Ideal-World/dp/0316471895
Youll understand where im coming from.

If you want to learn more, read this: https://www.amazon.com/Art-Living-Classical-Happiness-Effectiveness/dp/0061286052

A lot of books, lot of websites, etc.
https://www.amazon.com/Reflections-Revolution-Writings-Everymans-Library/dp/0375712534/ref=sr_1_1

https://www.amazon.com/Lord-Acton-Historical-Moral-Essays/dp/1942503520/ref=sr_1_1


https://www.facinghistory.org/holocaust-and-human-behavior/chapter-2/inventing-black-and-white

to name but a few

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6c9Uu5eILZ8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRKOcie4mD0

https://www.amazon.com/12-Rules-Life-Antidote-Chaos/dp/0345816021

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SJWs always lie.

Sorry,whoops --

https://www.amazon.com/Hate-Your-Husband-After-Kids/dp/0316267104

One if my favorites:

The Dangerous Book for Boys https://www.amazon.com/dp/0062208977/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_QhQ7BbP4JGEFP

From my reading - This is the kind of guy who would have cheerfully thrown another man under the bus if the shoe were on someone else's foot.

That being said, the guy made a huge number of errors in handling this.

There is actually a book out there - on the best ways to handle these situations - a best seller no less :

https://www.amazon.com/SJWs-Always-Lie-Taking-Thought/dp/9527065682/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=sjws+always+lie&qid=1566789213&s=books&sr=1-1


SJWs Always Lie by Vox Day (Ted Beale).

​

There are ways to fight back against the Female Inquisition - and make no mistake, this IS an Inquisition by women against men.

The only good part of all this is that women are red pilling men at a phenomenal rate and guaranteeing that every man on the planet avoid them, most especially avoiding white women.

The social fallout of all this is going to reverb for decades to come.

From the NYT bestseller "Everybody Lies'

https://www.amazon.com/Everybody-Lies-Internet-About-Really/dp/0062390856

> Gender studies invented its own private scholarly language that bears little resemblance to the real english, latin, french and other languages that define understanding and insight, but deliberatly sound-alike so as to be unchallengeable by laypeople.

It has been mentioned here before, Fashionable Nonsense: Postmodern Intellectuals' Abuse of Science is a must read on this subject.

You have no idea how bad the boomer generation is. Read this book and you will be utterly disgusted. A Generation of Sociopaths: How the Baby Boomers Betrayed America https://www.amazon.com/dp/031639579X/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_jnJVAbJW0K8AG

Calling out systemic white racism = hate sub now? Stop lying.

 

www.halfasian.org

http://www.zakkeith.com/articles,blogs,forums/anti-Chinese-persecution-in-the-USA-history-timeline.htm

http://www.zakkeith.com/articles,blogs,forums/chinese-in-britain-history-timeline.htm

http://www.zakkeith.com/articles,blogs,forums/hollywood-asian-stereotypes.htm

http://www.zakkeith.com/articles,blogs,forums/not-racist-just-goofy-squint-eye-faces.htm

http://www.kulturemedia.org/

 

Cambodia

http://www.amazon.com/Sideshow-Kissinger-Nixon-Destruction-Cambodia/dp/0671835254/

 

Laos

Hiding America’s War Crimes in Laos | http://thiscantbehappening.net/node/2715

 

Vietnam

● http://www.amazon.com/Kill-Anything-That-Moves-American/dp/1250045061/

● http://www.amazon.com/Phoenix-Program-Americas-Forbidden-Bookshelf-ebook/dp/B00KGMIW6Q/

 

Korea

http://www.amazon.com/Hidden-History-Korean-1950-1951-Nonconformist/dp/0316817708/

 

Philippines

http://www.amazon.com/Benevolent-Assimilation-American-Philippines-1899-1903/dp/0300030819/

 

China

● China’s Rise, Fall, and Re-Emergence as a Global Power | http://dissidentvoice.org/2012/03/chinas-rise-fall-and-re-emergence-as-a-global-power/

● USA’s warfare against China ½ | http://www.voltairenet.org/article177063.html

 

India

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/apr/23/british-empire-crimes-ignore-atrocities