Top products from r/Rosacea

Ok, so;

Ivermectin is a relatively new, Nobel winning medicine that can be used to treat a variety of conditions with living organisms, such as mites in the case of type 2 rosacea (papulopustular - the one with pimples, scabs, pustules, white heads and generally really unsightly and painful when left untreated).

In most cases, it's very effective and clears the face within few weeks (I strongly recommend going on a course of helping antibiotics from your doctor for that, as it helps with a 'die off', a slight to bigger but very temporary worsening of the pimples before it gets better. Not all people have that, but it's fairly common.)

For human use, it's usually prescribed as Soolantra; a topical cream. In most of the world where it's available, it's an affordable to cheap and sometimes even fully paid for medicine, and if your doctor doesn't know about it, mentioning it sometimes helps with its prescription.

I don't know where you're based, but if you're in USA, the Soolantra bit can get annoying and superexpensive due to the way that healthcare is set up to milk people instead of help, however I have seen people getting it with some pharmacy help for as low as 50$ a tube.

If that's not an option, either because you truly are in USA and your doc is a jerk, or because like me you live somewhere where it simply isn't imported and known, you can opt for 'horse paste'.

Horse paste is a colloquial term for horse dewormers; a toothpaste-like or gel-like substance meant for horses to ingest, with twice the strength of Soolantra (some people dilute it with moisturisers for usage to tone it down to Soolantra's level, some people use it full; in most cases it's a once a day application on the entirety of the face.)

You can get your hands on a dewormer in most farm stores or on Amazon, one like this for example:https://www.amazon.com/Ivermectin-Paste-Dewormer-Flavor-3-Pack/dp/B01LXKF2VW - you always want to make sure it's pure Ivermectin and not a mix, and it's for horses as the strength is easy to work with, either in full or halved.

One tube lasted me for about 1-2 weeks when applied daily; I now have a clear face with only occasional pustules so I apply it about once a week at this point.

Disclaimer:

I am not a doctor.

I use it without problems for nearly a year now.

Horse paste is not tested for human use. It is twice the strength of the tested human dose, and so far nobody reported any problems. One thing some doctors fear with this is developing a resistance, similar to how antibiotic overuse works.

Another thing is the fact that a lot of these come in apple flavour, so there's a concern that storing them too long out once opened diminishes their effectiveness and could even lead to spoiling; in which case I recommend not stockpiling on them but buying them as you go, maybe a month-worth of supply.

The substance is generally safe for topical use as it's super mild - horses are sensitive so they can't ingest just anything.

For sure. A lot of people have luck with the CeraVe moisturizing cream, this product works for me and I have dry sensitive skin. A lot of people also recommend Vanicream moisturizer (I personally have not used, but I see a lot of people on here recommending it). These are both supposedly basic and calming products to repair the moisture barrier. They are also not super expensive which is nice.

Right now I am using the Purito centella unscented sunscreen as my daily moisturizer. It is very very moisturizing and my sensitive skin likes it. During night I am using the Purito green cream. Both these products contain centella asiatica which is supposed to decrease redness.

EDIT: Another gentle moisturizer I've read that people recommend on here and r/SkincareAddiction is Cosx ceramide comfort cream.

EDIT2: If you are just starting out with a skincare routine, you should really go check out the bountiful resources at r/SkincareAddiction. For example go on the right hand panel and they have a lot of stuff. Check out the HG (holy grail) threads for moisturizers, etc. They have a whole wiki devoted to

• Rosacea too.
  
• Info on moisturizers
  
• Routine steps

Wow, that is interesting. Well, I hope the Accutane goes well.

Some other tips for you:
- Try taking MSM powder (mixed in with water, work your way up to 15g daily, stop taking at least 8 hours before bed). It really helps me. It shouldn't be an issue with Accutane.
- Take a Zinc supplement if you aren't already (use Labdoor to find a good one).
- Avoid the sun as much as possible. I drive with a visor on. Literally this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B073WB185T/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
- Since you're avoiding the sun, you'll need a good vitamin D supplement. I take this with my salads: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003BVIALG
- Use this website to make sure whatever moisturizer/skin products you're using are safe by entering the ingredient list in and having it analyze them: http://www.cosdna.com/eng/ingredients.php
- Use this cleanser; it works wonders for me: https://www.amazon.com/Dr-Bronners-Pure-Castile-Liquid-Soap/dp/B000HJXQ9G

Good luck. :)

Cortisone is contra-indicated in rosacea, it can make it worse.

OK, you need a gentle skin care routine and a topical and maybe some oral stuff too.

1. Wash with something mild like Cetaphil lotion, CeraVe moisturizing cleanser, or Eucerin anti-redness cleanser. There are others that are similar. But you want mild. Pat your face dry. Do not use soap!
   
   
2. Apply your topical med. That could be Metrogel but there are others for rosacea.
   
   
3. Apply moisturizer if necessary. Again, something mild, one of the 3 brands above has something rosacea friendly. CeraVe makes a PM moisturizer with niacinamide. Niacinamide can have an anti-inflammatory effect on the skin. A moisturizer with MSM or sulfur can also help your skin. I've been using this with good results. But read the reviews, it doesn't work for everyone.
   
   
4. Sunscreen, preferably a mineral block like zinc oxide or titanium dioxide. Often baby's sunscreen or kid's sunscreen is mineral based. (I use Banana Boat Babies). Or look in the natural aisle. Unfortunately it can make you look white and pasty.
   
   
5. Oral meds: Either prescription antibiotics (ugh, too many side effects) or prescription vitamins (Nicomide) or high dose niacinamide vitamins. Or, MSM pills.
   
   
6. Wear a hat with a brim and stay out of the sun.
   
   acne.org has a good article on how to wash your face gently and apply meds and lotions. http://www.acne.org/regimen.html
   
   Also, regarding the barrier thing: Some folks here have use Aquaphor on their face and things have healed up nicely. It's mostly petroleum jelly so it creates a protective layer on your face. https://www.aquaphorus.com/healing-ointment/?gclid=COWtpL2etMsCFZQjgQodMwcEkA#1_75oz-tube

The vast majority of my rosacea was flushing after exertion as well. The Clinique redness reduction line did nothing for me. One product I found that soothes my skin is Laneige Hydrating Gel. It is unfortunately even more expensive than the Clinique line but works better for me.

One cheap easy item to help temporarily is an ice roller like this one Just leave it in the freezer and grab it when your pink is up. Feels good and helps with redness.

My flushing improved long term after treatment with horse paste a.k.a. ivermectin. Tons of info about this if you just search the subreddit.

https://www.amazon.com/Honeyskin-Organics-Psoriasis-Itchiness-Superfoods/dp/B00QUKS6NW/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

>PH at 5.5 to match the skin exactly - works with the skin without stressing it out.

This is the most important part.

>Organic Aloe Barbadensis Gel

Humectant thumbs up

>Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Oil, Theobroma Cacao (Cocoa) Seed Butter

Emollients

>Leptospermum Scoparium (Manuka Honey) Mel

Humectant

>Butyrospermum Parki (Shea) Butter

Emollient

>Centipeda Cunninghamii (Cehami)

Plant extract, potential irritant

>Glycerine (vegetable derived)

Humectant

>Emulsifying Wax

Occlusive. Could be either plant-based or petroleum-based but I'd put money on it being plant-based.

>Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride

Emollient

>Spirucosm (Blue Algae)

Extract

>Organic Cannabis Sativa (Hemp Seed) Oil, Organic Olea Europaea (Olive) Oil

Emollients

>Methyl Sufonyl Methane (MSM)

Allegedly good for rosacea. It's just sulfur.

>Tocopheryl Acetate (Vitamin E), Panthenol (Vitamin B5)

Vitamins

>Retinyl Palmitate (Vitamin A), Sodium Ascorbyl Phosphate (Vitamin C)

This cream is in a tub. These ingredients are going to oxidise pretty much straight away and have no effect. When Vitamin C oxidises it is actually harmful (it's an oxidant, as opposed to antioxidant), but at this concentration probably not.

>Oat Amino Protein

Extract known to be anti-inflammatory

>Frangipani Extract

Potential irritant

>Saccharomyces/Copper Ferment, Saccharomyces/Magnesium Ferment Hydrolysate, Saccharomyces/Potassium Ferment Hydrolysate, Adenosine Triphosphate (ATP)

These are really good ingredients. thumbs up

>Riboflavin (Vitamin B2)

/shrug, probably colourant at this concentration

>Tapioca Starch, Polysorbate 80, Sodium Hydroxide

Thickener, emulsifier, pH adjuster

>Titanium Dioxide, Carbomer

Whitening agent, emulsifier

>Glucose, Xanthan Gum, Chondrus Crispus (Carrageenan)

Thickeners

>Sodium Hyaluronate

I really would have wanted to see this amazing humectant much further up this list.

>Geogard Ultra (Gluconolactone and Sodium Benzoate), Phenoxyethanol

Preservatives

Realistically, this cream is going to be very sticky and will likely dry out due to the only real occlusive in it being "emulsifying wax". I would have liked to see dimethicone (silicone) in it, or at the very least some petroleum jelly. It gets points for the inclusion of saccharomyces ferments and adenosine. It also contains a huge amount of potentially comedogenic oils which may break you out, but YMMV.

I'd try it out, but I would apply it just after dinner after I've showered and let it soak in until just before bed, when I would apply a very thin layer of petroleum jelly over the top. I'd also have patch tested the shit out of it due to the extracts, behind my ears daily for two weeks.

EDIT: Doesn't contain niacinamide! :\

Almost everything I use now is cheap and over the counter. I totally feel you on this. As much as I'd love to, I simply can't shell out an arm and a leg for a product hoping it will solve my problems. To start with, you should check out the brand called The Ordinary, if you haven't already. Their products are super cheap and highly effective. They exist to "bring to market effective, more familiar technologies at honorable prices."

Here's what I use in my routine that successfully keeps my rosacea at bay:

AM:

- Bioclarity face wash - $9.95

- Cos De BAHA azelaic acid serum - $12.75

- The Ordinary's squalene oil - $6.08

PM:

- Bioclarity face wash - $9.95

- The Ordinary's squalene oil - $6.08

- Durvet ivermectin paste - $6.59

- Weleda skinfood - $11.39

Another thing I would recommend is this sunscreen:

http://www.amazon.com/Eltamd-Clear-SPF-48-Gram-1-7/dp/B002MSN3QQ?ie=UTF8&keywords=elta%20md%20uv%20clear%20spf%2046&qid=1465442433&ref_=sr_1_1_s_it&s=beauty&sr=1-1

It has niacinamide and zinc oxide, which I found has a calming effect on the skin and tends to minimize UV-related exacerbation / progression of the disease. Don't use harsh soaps when you shower (I just rub with lukewarm water).

Depending on what your triggers are, avoid them if possible. Showering in luke warm water is an excellent idea. In general I would try to minimize simple carbohydrates in your diet, as sugar is inflammatory. Also the classic ones like red wine. If the flushing is more anxiety-related or related to social situations beta blockers (1st line is propranolol) may be beneficial for you. The azaleic acid cream is also a great idea, along with a good daily mild moisturizer.

I have type 2, I've heard that is the main kind that Ivermectin is good for, and I don't really have flushing and I don't think this works for that. Both the Ivermectin and Cliradex (tea tree oil extract apparently?) are meant to treat demodex mites, which is obviously just a theory. I'm not a doctor and I know that these things aren't for everyone. There's a good Facebook group called ROSACEA RESCUE that has a lot of people with varying degrees of success.

​

(the big breakout on my forehead happened between the time I ordered the horse paste and started using it, so that flared before I started using it. It's honestly better than it was at one point)

​

AM:

Wash with CeraVe Moisturizing Cleanser

Sparingly apply Durvet Ivermectin Apple Flavored Gel (called horse paste, but not paste, and it's a bit stick for daytime, so I only put a small amount)

CeraVe Lotion

Honeyskin Face & Body Cream

(Here's where I'd put on SPF, but I'm kind of having a hard time with that one right now. Lately my EltaMD UV Clear 46 has been burning a little, going to wait a bit to add it back in to see if it causes a reaction after I'm feeling solid about my routine)

​

PM

Wash with CeraVe

Apply Cliradex Foam to my eye area

Use the horse gel all over my face

​

I've only done this 4 nights/days now, and already my face is much smoother and the inflammation is down quite a bit. It for sure is not painful anymore. I'm cautiously optimistic.

Welcome! I was diagnosed this past July 2017. I'm also a female and while I'm not quite 27 yet, I will be next week! Lol.

Establishing a skincare regimen for yourself can be tricky. It doesn't have to be fancy or long and extensive. If you can't get yourself to follow it daily, then it's no good. Just start off with the basics and take it slow. Don't try so many new products all at once. Your skin may not like a product and it'll be hard to determine which one it is among the new products. Allow at least 2 weeks in between the addition of a new product.

Safeguard is a bar soap, right? If so, I wouldn't use it to wash my face. Bar soap usually has a high pH (like 8-10) and that disrupts your face's moisture barrier. Ideally, your face wash should have a pH around 5.5 because your skin's pH is 5.5. In the morning, I wash with Cerave Foaming Facial Cleanser. In the evening, I wash with Palmer's Skin Therapy Cleansing Oil to remove sunscreen (and makeup if I'm wearing any) followed by Cerave Foaming Facial Cleanser again.

Can I ask why you bought Thayers Witch Hazel Toner with Rose Petal and Queene Helene Mint Julep Masque? What do you hope to accomplish with these two products? And fyi, witch hazel can be a trigger for flare-ups, so be careful with that. Let me tell you if you don't already know...there are SO many triggers for rosacea, but they vary from person to person.

Definitely include a sunscreen in your skincare. The sun can be a trigger, but more than that, sunscreen is preventative care for skin cancer, signs of aging, etc. It is recommended that those with rosacea use a physical sunscreen, but some can get away with chemical ones (which can be a trigger). I use Missha All Around Safe Block Essence Sun SPF 45/PA+++ or Innisfree Perfect UV Protection Cream Triple Care SPF 50+/PA+++. Both are Korean brand sunscreens. The Missha one is a chemical sunscreen and it has witch hazel extracts. It doesn't affect me though. The Innisfree one is a physical sunscreen and it has niacinamide which can alleviate rosacea symptoms. Because the Innisfree one is a physical sunscreen, it does have a slight white cast, but it doesn't really bother me.

As a guy, makeup is an option. I use this and this. Its a green tinted primer and a liquid mineral foundation.

This is not for everyone. I wash my face twice a day, and use cetaphil, and aloe gel. It helps quite a bit in my opinion, but there are no good cures. I am also going to try adding MSM to my supplements but who knows. I've accepted that I may never be able to "cure", so I do the best to manage.

In that vein, makeup has helped with my self image quite possibly more than I could have imagined. If I had known what I know now (at 25) I would've started learning at 15. If you do it right, nobody ever knows. I've had one person in 2-3 years ask if I was wearing makeup (it was at a baseball game) and I just said I put on sunscreen. Nobody expects men to wear it, so it's never noticed. Just remember, LESS is MORE.

I also have this problem with my insurance. I’ve had good work-around luck with DIY azelaic acid (https://www.amazon.com/Ecological-Formulas-Melazepam-Cream/dp/B001WUEJ4U), sulfur masks (https://www.amazon.com/SULFUR-OINTMENT-POWERFUL-ACNE-MDICATION/dp/B003Y58F14/ref=sr_1_3_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1522201544&sr=8-3&keywords=Sulfur+ointment), and the vet version of soolantra (https://www.amazon.com/Duramectin-Ivermectin-Paste-1-87-Horses/dp/B003T4DMPO/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1522202843&sr=8-2&keywords=ivermectin+for+horses ). This version is sticky like Vaseline. But it’s cheap so you won’t lose much if you don’t like it. After I determined it worked for me I switched to this one which isn’t so sticky (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004FVUH6C/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1).

I use a very gentle cleanser (I like albolene and vanicream) and moisturizer, plus sunscreen during the day.

Just a warning if you try the ivermectin - my skin got a lot worse than I have ever seen it around days 4-10. But then it improved tremendously. I think this is why dermatologists use doxycycline with it in the beginning to reduce the inflammatory reaction to the mite die-off. But stick with it and it’s so so worth it.

Finally, here is my routine:

PM:
Cleanse (albolene)
Sulfur mask (10 Min every other night)-then rinse with lukewarm water
Azelaic acid (3 times a week)
Moisturize
Ivermectin (every night right at bedtime)
Vaseline (if I’m really dry)

AM
Cleanse (vanicream)
Moisturize
Sunscreen

Ask your derm for Soolantra samples, he gave me enough for a month to try (didn't make much difference). But it's a great way to trial it. It's pretty expensive, even with my great insurance it's $50/mo which I think is a lot, esp as my specific condition isn't that bad.

To note, this ingredient is also in a horse cream here . My derm took a look at it and said it wouldn't be harmful to try--he doesn't like when good treatments are too expensive. That it's for horses may be a turnoff to some, but it's just the chemical to treat the same thing (mites). Just FYI.

Got it....

I ask because I did take the Amazon Ivermectin orally once to kill the demodex internally as well. Its 100% OK for human consumption. A lot of users have reported doing this for either demodex or scabies. I was desperate and I did it. Im 100% OK and it worked in conjunction with topical application of the same product.

This is the brand I purchased, squeezed a 200lb dose and swallowed it before bed. It tastes like the worst apple chapstick ever. I dont know if its the oral dose or the topical dose that helped but it did....

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000HHLWPI/ref=sr_ph_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1493084212&sr=sr-1&keywords=ivermectin

After I finish the soolantra, i doubt I will purchase it again from the pharmacy. I will continue to purchase the medication linked above as its stronger and much much cheaper.

Good luck, bro!

Wow! Thanks for this great reply. Yeah it looked too good to be true.

If you wouldn't mind, could you take a look at another product?

This one also has a ton of ratings and reviews on Amazon but I couldn't find anything else besides that. https://www.amazon.com/Honeyskin-Organics-Psoriasis-Itchiness-Superfoods/dp/B00QUKS6NW/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

Ingredients:
Organic Aloe Barbadensis Gel, Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Oil, Theobroma Cacao (Cocoa) Seed Butter, Leptospermum Scoparium (Manuka Honey) Mel, Butyrospermum Parki (Shea) Butter, Centipeda Cunninghamii (Cehami), Glycerine (vegetable derived), Emulsifying Wax, Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride, Spirucosm (Blue Algae), Organic Cannabis Sativa (Hemp Seed) Oil, Organic Olea Europaea (Olive) Oil, Methyl Sufonyl Methane (MSM), Tocopheryl Acetate (Vitamin E), Panthenol (Vitamin B5), Retinyl Palmitate (Vitamin A), Sodium Ascorbyl Phosphate (Vitamin C), Oat Amino Protein, Frangipani Extract, Saccharomyces/Copper Ferment, Saccharomyces/Magnesium Ferment Hydrolysate, Saccharomyces/Potassium Ferment Hydrolysate, Adenosine Triphosphate (ATP), Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Tapioca Starch, Polysorbate 80, Sodium Hydroxide, Titanium Dioxide, Carbomer, Glucose, Xanthan Gum, Chondrus Crispus (Carrageenan), Sodium Hyaluronate, Geogard Ultra (Gluconolactone and Sodium Benzoate), Phenoxyethanol

The UV elements has a darker and more yellow/orangish tint, while the UV physical has a lighter tint which is more pinkish. I am not sure about the other tinted ones. It might be worth sending them an email and asking if there is any way to get samples.

I know that Zinc Oxide and Titanium Dioxide are considered the best filters for rosacea, but I couldn't find any sunscreens with these that I liked, so I've been using the Purito Centella green level unscented sunscreen, which goes on transparent and hasn't irritated my skin yet, even though most chemical filters do.

this one does not smell like apples

I prefer it to the Duravet brand horse paste, as that one smelled like a Jolly Rancher candy. I’ve had just as much luck with the horse paste as I did with Soolantra. I mix mine with sulphur ointment and Cereve PM lotion

Yes. Have you tried azelaic acid? I've used Melazepam (available on Amazon), and it worked pretty well. I also have used Paula's Choice azelaic acid booster. It's not as strong, but it also seems to help.

However, nothing makes my skin completely clear, so I just live with varying degrees of broken out.

To "hide" it implies concealing it. Concealing implies adding a product over it. That is makeup lol. Do you consider this makeup? It is green tinted and can also provide redness relief.

Yes to: Oatmeal (specifically colloidal oatmeal- Dr. Dray has a good video on this), Niacinamide, Green tea, Chamomile and Raw honey.

No to: Coconut oil and Lavender essential oil - these really aren't good for sensitive facial skin!

Don't have much experience with the others.

My new favorite skincare thing is making a mask with 1 tsp Aveeno colloidal oatmeal (https://www.amazon.com/Aveeno-Soothing-Treatment-Itchy-Irritated/dp/B000UEAARO), 1 tsp raw honey, and 1 tsp yogurt. I've seen a lot of people on this sub make a similar mask.

You can get Soolantra‘ s active ingredient (Ivermectin) over the counter.

Horse paste is usually 1.9% vs Soolantra which is 1%

Duramectin Ivermectin Paste 1.87% for Horses, 0.21 oz https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003T4DMPO/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_MIh3Db057XMGF

Good discussion on one vs the other:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Rosacea/comments/alouse/soolantra_vs_the_horse_paste/

I'm a fan of the CeraVe moisturizers after they were recommended by my derm. There's a PM version without sunscreen and an AM version with SPF 30. Buying both seems expensive up front but the bottles last me like 2+ months usually, and it's still cheaper than a lot of alternatives and has widespread retail availability.

Ms JessicaDiamonds,

I am in this thread here:https://www.reddit.com/r/Rosacea/comments/an7pk9/last_monday_vs_this_monday_only_4_days_on/

All I saw is you are using Ivermectin. From what I have learned in Reddit's 'UX' from this thread I didn't figure out what medium you are using Ivermectin with? It could be horse paste or it could be Soolantra. I have 'bothered' to try to figure this out and spent time going through the above thread and couldn't find what Ivermectin treatment you are using. If you look at this thread DABReddit says, "I have type two and use Soolantra and Finacia each once per day" who also mentions Soolantra as I did. Can you see, since I am new to Reddit, and I couldn't find what 'Ivermectin' treatment and concluded it was Soolantra that I am simply trying to help and I am not chastising you, that I am volunteering with links to demodectic rosacea treatments which includes ivermectin and other possible treatments? I am so glad you are having success with your ivermectin treatment. I finally discovered in your first post you are using "Durvet Ivermectin Apple Flavored Gel (called horse paste, but not paste, and it's a bit stick for daytime, so I only put a small amount) and CeraVe Lotion Honeyskin Face & Body Cream." I apologize for missing this earlier. Please indulge me with forgiveness for missing this. I have learned now that you have to carefully look at the poster's name, the date the post is published, and how the replies are also dated differently, and how the 'UX' works. Different from the forum style posting I am familiar with, you know what I mean, the 'UX'. Still haven't figured out what the red and gray arrows do.

Missha All Around Safe Block Essence Sun SPF45/PA+++ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ENTM3FY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apip_fc7Dm89L3HcwH - hands down my favorite sunscreen. I don't have sensitive skin, combo really, and this stuff never makes me feel clogged.

I have an ice roller that really helps with that ice roller

yeah I read that Niacin is the bad one but this one says its Niacin as Niacinamide.

Here is the link: http://www.amazon.com/Now-Foods-Niacinamide-Capsules-100-Count/dp/B000OSUDJQ

I actually ordered zinc that had copper in it too. I got 30mg of zinc with 2mg of copper. What dosage did she recommend for you?

Check out Melazepam on Amazon. I can't compare, as it's the only one I've used, but it works for me.

Ecological Formulas Melazepam Cream https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001WUEJ4U/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_jucAzbYQNQ1JS

Apple flavored is correct! [This is what I get] (https://www.amazon.com/Ivermectin-Paste-Dewormer-Flavor-3-Pack/dp/B01LXKF2VW/ref=mp_s_a_1_14?keywords=durvet&qid=1563989884&s=gateway&sr=8-14)

Elta MD